Remove ads

Ethically questionable magic

fictionfan

fictionfan

Please sir, may I have some Meows?
Location
Tempe, AZ
List of morality questionable magic
  • Mindmagic:magic that affects thoughts, emotion, memories or mindreading.
  • Necromancy
  • Blood magic:Gaining power from death and pain. Sometimes body modification however you need to experiment.
  • Soul magic: the modification of souls and the creation of custom souls.
All of these can be used for good stuff, but require the ability to be able to do bad stuff.

In this thread we will talk about where the lines are and what is justified or even benign uses.

Edited: Added definitions to make things more clear.
 
Last edited:
It's not just defined by being able to do bad stuff. Short of extremely narrow types of magic that let you blast people with rays of pure elemental Good and nothing else, any type of magic can be used to do bad things. The reason those ones in particular are typically associated with evil is that all of them fundamentally violate some deeply personal aspect of a being, be it their mind, their soul, or their body - which most cultures consider sacred and in some ways connected to the deceased even after death. Having that violation be a necessary first step instead of simply one of several options is what generally gets the schools of magic you outlined coded as evil.
 
Fire blasts burn people to death. Maybe I should mention the horror inherite in the OP.
 
Who are ye, to claim one magic bad because it can hurt?

They all can, you abuse forces beyond your understanding. Magic is a tool, it can not be good or bad.
 
I think I get @SeptimusMagisto - the listed schools break taboos. Burning someone, on the other hand, is history. And everyday experience (in comparison).
 
OK what is the difference between useing charisma and argument to change someone's mind vs mind magic?

Edit:
Actually can everyone in general say some unquestionably good uses for each type of magic?
 
Last edited:
I actually think (aside from the varieties that deal with enslavement of souls or similar acts) necromancy can be sort of okay in a lot of settings. Like, animating a zombie or skeleton? Stitching together a flesh golem? As long as you're just using the body and animating with arcane magic, I think the only reasons not to do so are to do with cultural taboos on messing with the dead and the like.

Enslaving souls on the other hand, I have the same problem with that as I have with mind control magic. Something on a very primal level of me rejects mental or spiritual control of a being as bad and wrong, and while I can sort of play with that sometimes (play with charm person and dominate spells in D&D for instance) there's still a knee jerk reaction on my part to see anything (or almost anything) involving such as morally corrupt.

There are exceptions on both sides though, for example, in the Abhorsen trilogy (Garth Nix) the very nature of dying corrupts the spirit, warping anyone who tries to struggle against it into something inhuman and evil. In those books necromancy involves controlling the spirit regardless of who does it and while that makes me squeamish on some level, I can acknowledge in that universe at least that mind-affecting magic is not always bad and that my usual notions regarding undead do not apply.

tl;dr mind control is bad and I find it difficult to be objective about it because it scares me.

Also Abhorsen quest would probably be pretty nifty,..
 
fictionfan said:
OK what is the difference between useing charisma and argument to change someone's mind vs mind magic?

Edit:
Actually can everyone in general say some unquestionably good uses for each type of magic?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
One can be done by everyone able to speak, the other only by someone who can do magic. Magic (depends on system) leaves you less options to resist.

Mindmagic: Disabling guards when infiltrating the evil temple (or becoming invisible). Stop your friend who's possessed. Drive off possession. Diagnose/heal mental illness.

Necromancy: very system dependent; industrial revolution, free energy, help lost souls into reaching afterlife

Blood magic: Legend of 5 Rings that was the neutral beginning of magic, until it got corrupted. Dark Sun preservers use it (kind of) to avoid leeching off the life of the land.

Soul magic: pass, don't have a definition for that. Golem creation?
 
Last edited:
Blood magic is fine as long as it's your own blood and pain. It's when you start drawing from others without their consent that blood magic starts to veer into scary territory.

Necromancy is fine as long as it's just animating bodies through arcane power, in fact there are many benefits to necromancy in that situation.

Mind magic is nebulous, mostly because it's hard to say what actually qualifies. I wouldn't call invisibility or illusions or stasis 'Mind Magic' at all for example, but if we're to include those, then I have to admit that mind magic has its benefits. My personal definition of mind magic is usually just the mind affecting stuff like mental control or emotional manipulation, and those tend to leave a bad taste in my mouth at best...

Is it possible that we could maybe come up with a concrete definition of what qualifies as mind magic? I don't want to be arguing on something we all have different definitions for...
 
Whether or not these forms of magic break taboos, there are always going to be cases where they're at least morally grey. Context is the biggest factor in that, with permission being the main factor in most cases.

Mind-affecting, for example, could be used to help break self-destructive habits or treat certain mental problems. Necromancy could be used on someone who has unfinished business in life, but is dying or dead. Blood magic is often a power source, and some people might be willing to sacrifice their life to help power a magical spell. Soul magic can be used to repair damage to a soul or restore a corrupted soul, just as it can damage or corrupt one. What matters is the context, how it's used, why it's used, and what the effects are.

Magic, in every form, is a tool. Some are more easily turned to destructive uses than others, but they can still be used for beneficial purposes. Context is key.
 
fictionfan said:
OK what is the difference between useing charisma and argument to change someone's mind vs mind magic?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Agency, mostly. Using arguments to change someone's mind means they have to decide that they'll listen and consider what you say. You can be the most charismatic person in the world, but if someone decides to cover their ears and close their eyes, literally and metaphorically, then you might as well say nothing.

Mind Magic, on the other hand, is more equivalent to strapping that guy to a table and keeping his eyes open as you blast subliminal messages designed to force him to see your point. It's just more intrusive, harder to detect, and a lot easier for one guy to pull off.
 
Spectral Waltz said:
Mind magic is nebulous, mostly because it's hard to say what actually qualifies. I wouldn't call invisibility or illusions or stasis 'Mind Magic' at all for example, but if we're to include those, then I have to admit that mind magic has its benefits. My personal definition of mind magic is usually just the mind affecting stuff like mental control or emotional manipulation, and those tend to leave a bad taste in my mouth at best...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
How about stopping your frenzied berserker friend with a calm emotions spell?

Spectral Waltz said:
Is it possible that we could maybe come up with a concrete definition of what qualifies as mind magic? I don't want to be arguing on something we all have different definitions for...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Would be ideal, but HARD.
 
I have just added some definitions to the OP if any changes happen after this they will be a new threadmarked post.
 
MTB said:
And the cost involved. Whether or not you are allowed to sacrifice your own life/soul depends on the morality of the one answering the question.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
True. I include cost in 'how' though. If your world-saving spell is crafted from the pain and suffering of the orphans you kidnapped and tortured, you're in morally grey territory, at best.
 
So, 'ethically' questionable boils down to 'depends on who's judging'. And the forum members around here seem to have quite diverse backgrounds, true?
 
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top