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Epoch: A Grand-Strategy Quest

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[X] [Execution] He will be sacrificed to your gods by Haggai.
[X] [Husband] Jarrix
[X] [Movement] Stay Here
[X] [Gift] The Pouch of Seeds
[X] [Darthom] Ambush and Attack Them

The earth bender getting seeds for likely farming?
Hell Yes
 
[X] [Execution] You will bash his head in yourself
[X] [Husband] Jarrix
[X] [Movement] Stay Here
[X] [Gift] The Pouch of Seeds
[X] [Darthom] Send Emissaries

We bloody our own hands when nescessary, we unite with the new people, we invest in the future of the land, we give peace a try.

No human sacrifice please, that leads to bad places.
 
[X] [Execution] You will bash his head in yourself.
[X] [Husband] Jarrix
[X] [Movement] Stay Here
[X] [Gift] The Pouch of Seeds
[X] [Darthom] Prepare to defend your encampment
 
[X] [Execution] He will be sacrificed to your gods by Haggai.
[X] [Movement] Stay Here
[X] [Husband] Jarrix
[X] [Darthom] Send Emissaries
[X] [Gift] The Pouch of Seeds
 
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[X] [Execution] You will bash his head in yourself.
[x] [Movement] Stay Here
[X] [Husband] Jarrix
[X] [Darthom] Ambush and Attack Them
[x] [Gift] The Pouch of Seeds
 
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What's up with the human sacrifice popularity, that seems pretty evil for us. I mean, we spared the tiger and tried to talk with the first tribe before they ambushed us.
 
[X] [Execution] You will bash his head in yourself
[X] [Husband] Jarrix
[X] [Movement] Stay Here
[X] [Gift] The Pouch of Seeds
[X] [Darthom] Send Emissaries
 
Gino said:
What's up with the human sacrifice popularity, that seems pretty evil for us. I mean, we spared the tiger and tried to talk with the first tribe before they ambushed us.
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I don't think we really have a strong sense of ethics? I mean, the sparing the Tiger was jarrix's choice, not the leaders of the tribe.

Plus, Gods are obviously real so human sacrifice prolly brings some big bonuses. That said, I agree, it sets us up as an evil tribe. If we want to use good/evil terminology. Might turn into something like the Aztecs.
 
Gino said:
What's up with the human sacrifice popularity, that seems pretty evil for us. I mean, we spared the tiger and tried to talk with the first tribe before they ambushed us.
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People are less likely to try something if the punishment is harsh.
After all the death pentely is clearly not enough for nowadays (real life) in terms of getting a point across so insuring the afterlife is bad as well...
Well nothing but good for us.
 
As much as I want our society to develop into egalitarian law and order, I'll take not being the Aztecs. They started killing people to appease their gods and ended up killing tens of thousands of people a year. They kept their entire region in perpetual, organized state of war, specificly keeping their enemies just barely alive to provide enemies to capture and sacrifice.

We won't get there immediately even if a tradition is formed from this sacrifice, but man, I don't even want to go near that.

On the other hand I've never seen a civ Quest where we were overtly evil, so that'd be pretty interesting at least.
 
[X] [Execution] You will bash his head in yourself
[X] [Husband] Jarrix
[X] [Movement] Stay Here
[X] [Gift] The Pouch of Seeds
[X] [Darthom] Send Emissaries
 
[X] [Execution] You will bash his head in yourself
[X] [Husband] Jarrix
[X] [Movement] Stay Here
[X] [Gift] The Pouch of Seeds
[X] [Darthom] Send Emissaries
 
Gino said:
As much as I want our society to develop into egalitarian law and order, I'll take not being the Aztecs. They started killing people to appease their gods and ended up killing tens of thousands of people a year. They kept their entire region in perpetual, organized state of war, specificly keeping their enemies just barely alive to provide enemies to capture and sacrifice.

We won't get there immediately even if a tradition is formed from this sacrifice, but man, I don't even want to go near that.

On the other hand I've never seen a civ Quest where we were overtly evil, so that'd be pretty interesting at least.
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That's... completely discounting the reasons they thought they had to do it, but I'll hold off for now.

I agree that it is not a good path, but blanketing the culture as evil and exaggerating the number of sacrifices borders on justifying what the Spaniards did to them.
 
[X] [Execution] You will bash his head in yourself
[X] [Husband] Jarrix
[X] [Movement] Stay Here
[X] [Gift] The Pouch of Seeds
[X] [Darthom] Send Emissaries
 
PastaSentient said:
[x] [Execution] He will be sacrificed to your gods by Haggai.
[x] [Movement] Stay Here
[X] [Husband] Jarrix
[X] [Darthom] Ambush and Attack Them
[x] [Gift] The Pouch of Seeds

Y'all, we are researching agriculture. I have a feeling pouch of seeds might do something to boost that.
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Yes, but we've already sunk a fair bit into agri. I'm thinking the sword is bronzeworking. I know which one I prefer going after.

Seeds is agri-boost, bow is archery boost, sword has to be either just a unique weapon, or a bronzeworking boost. Getting bronzeworking, and making the first unit we produce a spearman? That's a recipe for success right there. Not to mention that it's knowledge of how to shape metal.
 
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As I understand it, they thought the gods needed the sacrafices to stave off the end of the inevitable apocalypse and turning of the cycle just a little bit longer. And yes the Spanish were pretty evil. So were the Aztec.

In the real world, everyone's the bad guy! We pretend our laws are fair, our wars are just, and our morals high. But in the end the rich and powerful crush the poor, war is just legal murder and our fanatics preach of fear and hate with toxic bile. But we're the ones doing it for the Greater Good, so that makes it ok!

Moral ambiguity and shades of grey and all that.

But in all seriousness if we start sacrificing people to the gods we are totally the bad guy. Just because it actually gets results doesn't mean we're not killing people for profit.

It would be a change of pace for a civ quest, and actually pretty fun to go full ham evil, but let's not pretend otherwise. If we're gonna be bad guys, let's be card carrying villains with an evil empire.
 
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Gino said:
As I understand it, they thought the gods needed the sacrafices to stave off the end of the inevitable apocalypse and turning of the cycle just a little bit longer. And yes the Spanish were were pretty evil. So were the Aztec.

In the real world, everyone's the bad guy! We pretend our laws are fair, our wars are just, and our morals high. But in the end the rich and powerful crush the poor, war is just legal murder and our fanatics preach of fear and hate with toxic bile. But we're the ones doing it for the Greater Good, so that makes it ok!

But in all seriousness if we start sacrificing people to the gods we are totally the bad guy. Just because it actually gets results doesn't mean we're not killing people for profit.

It would be a change of pace for a civ quest, and actually pretty fun to go full ham evil, but let's not pretend otherwise. If we're gonna be bad guys, let's be card carrying villains with an evil empire.
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Oh, I agree. Card-carrying evil is the best kind.

And you are correct. The Mexica believed that the only way the sun moved was for Quetzalcoatl to push it across the sky. And he was sustained by the blood of the other gods, who were in turn sustained by sacrifice. Even Quetzal was sacrificed to, though he only accepted tortillas and hummingbird hearts.

The culture is fascinating, but it isn't placating or appeasing, like so many interpret it as. They genuinely believed that the gods needed food, and that they had to provide it for the gods to live and to allow world to continue existing as a livable place. Now, there were horrific parts. Sacrifices to Huitzilopochtli and Tlaloc in particular are... abhorrent. But we tend to forget that the Mexica also had a special better heaven for victims of sacrifice, and that they had such oddities as a god specifically dedicated to protecting the well-being and good treatment of slaves.

It's a mixed bag with a lot of bad things that were caused by a bizarrely fatalistic and horrific cosmology.

I do agree, however, that we should probably avoid human sacrifice in the Veles.
 
Gino said:
As I understand it, they thought the gods needed the sacrafices to stave off the end of the inevitable apocalypse and turning of the cycle just a little bit longer. And yes the Spanish were pretty evil. So were the Aztec.

In the real world, everyone's the bad guy! We pretend our laws are fair, our wars are just, and our morals high. But in the end the rich and powerful crush the poor, war is just legal murder and our fanatics preach of fear and hate with toxic bile. But we're the ones doing it for the Greater Good, so that makes it ok!

Moral ambiguity and shades of grey and all that.

But in all seriousness if we start sacrificing people to the gods we are totally the bad guy. Just because it actually gets results doesn't mean we're not killing people for profit.

It would be a change of pace for a civ quest, and actually pretty fun to go full ham evil, but let's not pretend otherwise. If we're gonna be bad guys, let's be card carrying villains with an evil empire.
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Shrug. They're gonna die, they might as well contribute to atone. Would you rather our justice be an empty revenge, or an atonement for a people they've wronged?
 
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Travisplo said:
Yes, but we've already sunk a fair bit into agri. I'm thinking the sword is bronzeworking. I know which one I prefer going after.

Seeds is agri-boost, bow is archery boost, sword has to be either just a unique weapon, or a bronzeworking boost. Getting bronzeworking, and making the first unit we produce a spearman? That's a recipe for success right there. Not to mention that it's knowledge of how to shape metal.
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We have less than 1k in Agriculture. We're going to run out of food in this area soon.

If this theory is correct (it may not be), then we might get a boost to Agriculture that would reduce it to 2k (that's what the previous boost was). I'd kinda prefer to settle by the River that likes us and where we have a fertile ground for farming (according to those scouts).
 
PastaSentient said:
We have less than 1k in Agriculture. We're going to run out of food in this area soon.

If this theory is correct (it may not be), then we might get a boost to Agriculture that would reduce it to 2k (that's what the previous boost was). I'd kinda prefer to settle by the River that likes us and where we have a fertile ground for farming (according to those scouts).
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So... no Bengal Ganges Delta for us?
 
PastaSentient said:
We have less than 1k in Agriculture. We're going to run out of food in this area soon.

If this theory is correct (it may not be), then we might get a boost to Agriculture that would reduce it to 2k (that's what the previous boost was). I'd kinda prefer to settle by the River that likes us and where we have a fertile ground for farming (according to those scouts).
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As would I, as would I. But until then, we can boost hunters to bring in the food we need. We can last long enough, especially I imagine once the boats are done. That may open up further fishing to enhance our food supply.

EDIT: I wonder if some of the buildings from Civ will show up as well. A Stepwell (filled with the blood of our human sacrifices :p) perhaps?
 
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King Tharassian said:
So... no Bengal Ganges Delta for us?
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I'm still open to that...but I think having a river where the river spirits love us is a boost we can't ignore. I'm sure we will traverse upwards later...Plus we might want to wait for the Indus River Valley civ (if Arthellion is letting the rest of the worl follow its historical course ) to rise and fall before competing for that space up there.
 
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