DragonBall Franchise Discussion Thread (Contains Spoilers for Super)

I can't believe the absolute legends actually made Broly good and canon and made it all make sense.

The movie was incredible, though the pacing is rushed in places. Best Dragonball movie ever by a fairly wide margin. It expanded the worldbuilding of the setting's space opera elements, which I enjoyed a lot.
 
So, I recently watched Battle of the Gods, Resurrection F, and the first arc of Dragon Ball Super.

Resurrection was all rightish. BotG was fun, really.

But... I kind of felt let down by the show's retelling of the Beerus arc. Partly because it felt like the movie managed to cram more actual entertainment in a third of the screentime.
Partly... I don't know. I find myself liking Goku a lot less now, as an adult watching the show, than years ago, as a kid reading the manga (and I'm not sure if it's Goku who's different or me). I find myself aggravated by Vegeta being considered in-universe a non-shitty husband and father for doing the absolute minimum. I'm annoyed at Videl, whom I remember as quite the firecracker early in the Buu arc, now being defined by smiling passivity. But most of all... the show clearly doesn't want me to think of Beerus as a horrific monster who needs to die for the sake of justice and everyone else's safety, but that's how it made me think of him. Some ill-defined line about how destruction is necessary does not make up for him constantly behaving like a genocidal bully who makes Freeza look harmless in comparison and has the gall to rant about not being shown the respect due to him.

...Does it get better?
 
sun tzu said:
So, I recently watched Battle of the Gods, Resurrection F, and the first arc of Dragon Ball Super.

Resurrection was all rightish. BotG was fun, really.

But... I kind of felt let down by the show's retelling of the Beerus arc. Partly because it felt like the movie managed to cram more actual entertainment in a third of the screentime.
Partly... I don't know. I find myself liking Goku a lot less now, as an adult watching the show, than years ago, as a kid reading the manga (and I'm not sure if it's Goku who's different or me). I find myself aggravated by Vegeta being considered in-universe a non-shitty husband and father for doing the absolute minimum. I'm annoyed at Videl, whom I remember as quite the firecracker early in the Buu arc, now being defined by smiling passivity. But most of all... the show clearly doesn't want me to think of Beerus as a horrific monster who needs to die for the sake of justice and everyone else's safety, but that's how it made me think of him. Some ill-defined line about how destruction is necessary does not make up for him constantly behaving like a genocidal bully who makes Freeza look harmless in comparison and has the gall to rant about not being shown the respect due to him.

...Does it get better?
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Beerus is very emphatically not the good guy, nor intended as such. His literal introduction is showing exactly how bad he is, and the Kais make it clear besides that:
"There are deities who exist to protect life. But the opposite is also true. Some deities exist only to end life. Beerus the Destroyer is such a being."

"Yes, but as detestable as it is to us, there is a reason for his destructive ways."

"No! There is no reason at all. The inevitability of his existence does not give meaning to what he does."
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What he is is friendly, not good. His goals don't align with the main cast's, but he's charismatic and gets along well with them in a personal level. In the same way, he's is intended to be liked by the viewers, but there's no pressure to agree to his (often reinforced in how arbitrary they are) morals.

In terms of it improving, Battle of the Gods movie is one of the best parts of super, but it definitely improves on the anime segment / ressurection F. The U6 tournament arc has a unique and interesting take that reminded me positively of the earliest part of OG dragon ball; it's a tournament, is compelling on a narrative level and has some fun fights, but at the same time just doesn't have the now-customary constantly escalating stakes that can just get exhausting. The filler is more hit and miss, although there are some gems; Goku Black Arc is good but entirely too long, as is the Tournament of Power. Broly has some rough edges but is a very strong addition to the series.
 
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IMO Super has some pretty damn amazing highs, some really sucky lows and several meh moments. I'd still recommend watching it but be aware that quality can vary a lot between episodes.
 
Q99 said:
If you've seen the movies, you don't need the long arc versions. The copy-Vegeta mini-saga (44-46) isn't horrible but it's pretty skippable.

Mostly the first two arcs. They exist in much more compact form with better animation, they don't need a dozen episodes each.
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Also the movie version of Ressurection of F has more Jaco action so it's automatically better (seriously Jaco was a blast and even managed to kick ass by using his wits despite not being able to fly or shoot ki blasts) :3
 
Finished watching the Freeza arc, and, like with the Beerus arc, my impression is "the movie told the story much better in only a fraction of the time". Gohan's near-uselessness ("I haven't been training in recent years" does not justify a a guy who got a powerup after soloing Cell struggling with Freeza's minions) and C-18 not participating in the fight pissed me off.
Ah well. At least I'm past the movie retelling part and moving onto the next arc.
 
Yeah, Gohan's in a weird limbo in Super. Cause like, his character arc is over. He's not interested in being the swolest ever and just wants to live a normal academic life. This is entirely reasonable considering the absurd heights of power that other characters have grown to, but due to the setting he's in, more and more improbably powerful enemies keep showing up.

So basically, Gohan's actions would be perfectly reasonable if it wasn't for the fact that he lives in Dragon Ball.
 
Gohan's arc isn't finished yet, because he hasn't reached the natural conclusion to it we know from Dragonball Online: combining his love of scholarship and education with his duty to help protect the planet by writing Groundbreaking Science, a scientific and scholarly analysis of ki abilities and the usage and obtaining thereof, so that people outside his immediate family can start learning without needing one-on-one training.

It's just, they're taking their sweet-ass time with getting around to letting him have the realization that he can combine work and pleasure like that.
 
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*watches 3rd arc*
OK, this is somewhat better.
The fact that the tournament had no real stakes... didn't bother me, honestly. I mean, I loved the original budokai arc in the original Dragon Ball.
Goku punching Monaka out of the blue seemed OOC. Goku's a fight-happy idiot, but he's not really a "punch someone out of the blue to test their strength" sort of guy.
I was kind of annoyed by how most of the U6 fighters couldn't really measure up to Goku and Vegeta in terms of power. Gummy bear dude was kind of a one-trick pony (a good trick, but still), Frost was hilariously underleveled in comparison and needed poisons to stand a chance, not-a-robot couldn't fly and only stood a chance due to the environment being modified to give him an advantage, and sayan guy couldn't go super-sayan and never stood a chance. Only Hit actually combined high power levels with having a special trick.
The one thing that pissed me off the most? How they handled Frost. "Good Freeza" would have been a million times more interesting than "Freeza, but with good spin doctors".
Goku wank annoys me... so I was happy that Hit won (both "would have won in a fight with no tournament rules" and "won when Goku resigned"). Also happy with his throwing the fight against Monaka.
Small thing, but I think it was a missed opportunity not to have Mister Satan figure out Monaka's deal and see a kindred soul of sorts in him. XD
Beerus and Champa remain total shitlords. Their pants-wetting terror in the face of the omniking dude was amusing.
 
If you want to enjoy Super you're going to have to come to terms with the fact that modern Dragonball is definitely not the dragonball of your youth and has no real interest in being so.

Goku is a violent idiot and will only continue to get worse. At this point I think that the best thing that could happen is him turning (chaotic neutral) villain.

Gohan's arc is over. He is going nowhere. Videl's arc is over. Toriyama has no idea how to write women and has no interest in learning at his age.

Beerus is never going to be a good guy, and he's probably never going to get punished for his evil either. He's Goku's friend now, which means that the time in which he could experience moral consequences is over. Nobody dies in Dragonball because they're evil, they die because Goku doesn't like them, and he likes Beerus, so sorry about that.

Look forward to Broly. It's the best part of Nu-Dragonball by a country mile.
 
What I find interesting is that to a degree the narrative acknowledges that Goku isn't a "hero". Winning is for heroes, and in Super, Goku never wins except in filler. He only ever does well enough to convince the opponent to spare him, or buy time for someone more heroic (or otherwise more tied to the villain) to save the day.
 
www.theverge.com

Akira Toriyama’s coming back for a new Dragon Ball series

The new Dragon Ball series marks the return of kid Goku (and friends).
www.theverge.com www.theverge.com
Today at this year's New York Comic Con, Toei Animation announced that it is well into production on Dragon Ball Daima, a new series that will see a number of classic Dragon Ball Z characters like Goku, Vegeta, and Bulma transformed into children similar to the way Goku became a child in Dragon Ball GT.

During a panel about the new show, executive producer Akio Iyoku described Toriyama as being "deeply involved beyond his usual capacity" in its production process and teased that he "has planned entirely new episodes for the storyline."


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYcrmsdZuyw
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Not gonna lie, going for a cross between Muppet Babies and GT feels like scraping way past the bottom of the barrel in terms of ideas.
 
I get the comparisons to GT and Muppet babies, but I can't watch that trailer and not be hyped. The animation looks great, the vibes arei mmaculate, and it seems like characters besides Goku and Vegeta will matter
 
Muppet babies

That's where Toriyama is going with

Dude just stop you're just a hack at this point wanting that half dead grandma to voice Goku as a kid again
 
www.japantimes.co.jp

Dragon Ball creator Akira Toriyama dies at 68

A post announcing his death said Toriyama was “working on many projects” and that “there was so much more than he wanted to accomplish.”
www.japantimes.co.jp www.japantimes.co.jp
Dragon Ball's official website said Toriyama died on March 1 due to a blood clot in the brain.

A funeral service was held with members of Toriyama's immediate family. Dates for official farewell events have not yet been announced.
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