Cosmic Accel - ripping off Halo since the 9th Age of Reclamation

[Acatalepsy]

Sync

Close bonds as a team are important for another reason - the reason is that I like super modes. The armour used by Arihants is networked normally, but Heaven possesses a technology that allows individuals to network their thoughts via a semi-acausal entangle link. When synced in this way, two people can share skills and experiences, and as the link is not strictly causal those experiences can be from the near future. Along with being able to offload processing into the other user, this means that the suit's first limiter can be safely released.

Though the sync process is carefully mediated by AI assistants, under certain circumstances 'junk data' can be shared - memories, for instance.

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Interesting, but it raises a few questions about this whole thing. Like, you said 'first limiter' - implying there is more than one limiter? What happens if you try to link more than one person (presumably more than one limiter is released)? Or some kind of big computer system (based in Heaven, maybe) that can link everyone?

More interesting question, maybe - what does that combined entity think of this? An incredibly powerful, sophisticated intelligence, built out of several people...who is going to wake up for a brief time, live a very-likely violent existence, then die. What does it think about the world that it knows, however briefly?

 

[Ford Prefect]

Giant forests are well suited to humans.

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The low gravity thing was more my concern.

I figure even one alien invasion is enough to start hitting panic buttons. After all, even if the Efreet aren't actively engaged in exterminating all human life, they're going to cause enormous (if localized) destruction, and with unknown motivations, who can say that they won't suddenly get fed up and start doing some pest control?

Plus, maybe the local government does know about the second fleet (though not that they're hostile to the first fleet), and is keeping it under wraps in the name of not causing (more) panic. I'm imagining that could make for a fun scene or two.

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I thought about this for a while, and as can probably be gleaned the Surface administration and Surface militia are not necessarily working together. Nominally admin has control over the militia and their overall values align. In practice the militia does what it wants, and I think I can use this to help set-up why the Efreet are on planet, and why Surface admin puts out a request to Heaven for help.

Other random ideas: maybe there's more than two Houses in the system - a dozen or more individual fleets on the edge of the 81 Hydrae system. They don't get involved, but they're very clearly watching what's going on, and their presence makes everyone nervous and makes direct intervention with Heaven's fleet a non-starter.

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SCS Bahamut is a very large and powerful vessel but it and its assorted escorts and parasites couldn't really handle more than a single squadron of Efreeti ships, let alone a full house fleet.

 

[BiopunkOtrera]

The low gravity thing was more my concern.

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Well, what is surface like?

 

[Ford Prefect]

Interesting, but it raises a few questions about this whole thing. Like, you said 'first limiter' - implying there is more than one limiter? What happens if you try to link more than one person (presumably more than one limiter is released)?

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Okay, but seriously, the combat skins used by Arihants have four limiters on them, so theoretically you could sync a whole team and get the full power of the suit. However, syncing between two people is pretty stressful, and can't be maintained for a very long time. As you add more people the sync gets harder and harder and lasts for less and less time. Going beyond a two person sync isn't very advisable, and so Team Element doesn't do it. Which obviously means they'll do it in the story.

As three people is extremely hard even with people with Arihants - who share a close personal bond - doing more with relative strangers just isn't viable.

More interesting question, maybe - what does that combined entity think of this? An incredibly powerful, sophisticated intelligence, built out of several people...who is going to wake up for a brief time, live a very-likely violent existence, then die. What does it think about the world that it knows, however briefly?

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Syncing isn't quite that deep. It doesn't create a third person.

Well, what is surface like?

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It's a fairly ordinary terrestrial world, though it is unusually geologically stable, with somewhat off gravity for its apparent mass and density.

 

[Acatalepsy]

Okay, but seriously, the combat skins used by Arihants have four limiters on them, so theoretically you could sync a whole team and get the full power of the suit. However, syncing between two people is pretty stressful, and can't be maintained for a very long time. As you add more people the sync gets harder and harder and lasts for less and less time. Going beyond a two person sync isn't very advisable, and so Team Element doesn't do it. Which obviously means they'll do it in the story.

As three people is extremely hard even with people with Arihants - who share a close personal bond - doing more with relative strangers just isn't viable.

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So it's primary purpose, then, is to allow relationship drama to have a direct effect on the team's fighting power? Maybe there's a sync gauge somewhere that gives you objective readings of the level of bullshit drama going and you have support characters breathlessly calling out the numbers (letters? colors? musical notes?) as they try to get over themselves in the middle of a fight?

Syncing isn't quite that deep. It doesn't create a third person.

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Laaaame. Embrace the doubt over questions of identity and the value of personal identity! Let your inner Peter Watts run wild!

(Or at least borrow the Tiny Copy of Peter Watts that lives in my head.)

It's a fairly ordinary terrestrial world, though it is unusually geologically stable, with somewhat off gravity for its apparent mass and density.

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Come on, stop being such a tease.

...I mean, seriously. Like, if there's some stuff going on, do you actually have something in mind, or is this just "there's something super sekrit going on", and the plan is to just sort of leave it there to be theorized and wondered over, because no answer you could give would actually be satisfying.

A better question, maybe: can you enumerate the big revelations you want as part of Cosmic Accel?

 

[Ford Prefect]

So it's primary purpose, then, is to allow relationship drama to have a direct effect on the team's fighting power? Maybe there's a sync gauge somewhere that gives you objective readings of the level of bullshit drama going and you have support characters breathlessly calling out the numbers (letters? colors? musical notes?) as they try to get over themselves in the middle of a fight?

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It's a mechanistic way of representing themes of teamwork, closeness and intimacy directly in the story. I think it's important, when you're dealing with violence, to have some kind of purpose or intent with it. In other stories I typically revolve it around unfamiliarity with the doing of violence even in dangerous circumstances. As the characters here are trained soldiers, and indeed have been trained extremely extensively, I didn't think that kind of thing worked.

It is perhaps a little obvious ('oh no it looks like fion's fundamental inability to discuss her history is causing friction and that is directly impacting on our ability to go super saiyan') but I think it works and it serves as an effective narrative device when it comes to exploring the pasts of the characters.

Laaaame. Embrace the doubt over questions of identity and the value of personal identity! Let your inner Peter Watts run wild!

(Or at least borrow the Tiny Copy of Peter Watts that lives in my head.)

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I don't want to overload on concepts. There's an entire story behind the idea of the sync system actually blending people together and making third whole persons. It's not something I just want to include if I don't think I can give it appropriate focus. Given that this story has to introduce its characters, communicate its context and handle an actual plot on top of that, I fear it could become bloated if I let my imagination run too wild.

Come on, stop being such a tease.

...I mean, seriously. Like, if there's some stuff going on, do you actually have something in mind, or is this just "there's something super sekrit going on", and the plan is to just sort of leave it there to be theorized and wondered over, because no answer you could give would actually be satisfying.

A better question, maybe: can you enumerate the big revelations you want as part of Cosmic Accel?

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I do have something in mind, or rather three or four specific, different things I'm currently debating between. As it's a pretty major element of the story, I'm not inclined to reveal it in public. I don't let getting spoilers or handing them out

 

[Ford Prefect]

So to divert from more substantial matters for a moment, I'd like to talk about the various toys that Team Element has access to. Arihants are well-equipped and provisioned, and due to Heavenly nanomachinery they can operate for quite long periods of time without needing to reach friendly territory for resupply.

The main thing is the Kerykeion, which is Team Element's ride. It's a space plane, which makes it look deceptively small for its actual size. With its swept forward wings and canards it could pass as a fighter plane, but it's actually close to 150m long. It has everything a team of interstellar badasses need to ass bad all over the galaxy, particularly the vanishing motor needed to warp. It's armed but it's not really for getting into scrapes with other spacecraft.

The Kerykeion also carries other aircraft, including the spacey equivalent of a Blackhawk, and a pair of aerospace fighters. Cleo pilots one and Vivi the other, with Fion and Asher serving as WSO if necessary. It has space jeeps and space IFVs and even a space tank lodged away. They even have a pretty nice civilian car just in case they need to drive around a diaspora city and can't OSP something appropriate.

They have access to an automated fabricator which can make most of everything you might need, and they have the plans for a pretty substantial arsenal of weapons. Mostly Team Element uses a variety of 'glassguns.' Glassgun is my favourite piece of weapon terminology. I don't know where I got it from, but I can't help but use it. Precisely what a glassgun is depends on the story, but here they're … let's go with psychomotive accelerators firing quartz-like smart matter. One of these things will really ruin your day!

Most of this is something that operative from Heaven could or does have. With Arihants they have a unique piece of gear: their combat skin. This is the ultimate performance enhancer, with its full capabilities locked under a triple seal. A normal human, or even an enhanced one, couldn't use a suit like this. It takes an Arihant. They're essentially two parts of the same system.

Without going into two much detail, in part because some of it doesn't exist yet, it's a form fitting suit of exotic powered armour. Apart from doing the usual business of enhancing strength and speed and turning invisible, it also has an inertial canceller built in. It's like the Jehuty of infantry BDUs, basically.

 

[Raumgespenst]

Without going into two much detail, in part because some of it doesn't exist yet, it's a form fitting suit of exotic powered armour. Apart from doing the usual business of enhancing strength and speed and turning invisible, it also has an inertial canceller built in. It's like the Jehuty of infantry BDUs, basically.

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Have any idea of what sort of design you want to use for the power armor?

 

[Ford Prefect]

Have any idea of what sort of design you want to use for the power armor?

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I'm not much of an art guy, haha. My immediate thought is that I'd like it to seem unassuming. Like it looks too sleek and light to have its power and functionality. Not really a hard shell full of machinery or even having obvious muscle bundles like a Nanosuit. It should stand in contrast to diaspora built equivalents, which rely on large scale exoskeletons or whatever. It depends on whatever specific technologies I use to fluff it out, I guess, but it would have to be smooth and light.

 

[Whiskey Golf]

I'm not much of an art guy, haha. My immediate thought is that I'd like it to seem unassuming. Like it looks too sleek and light to have its power and functionality. Not really a hard shell full of machinery or even having obvious muscle bundles like a Nanosuit. It should stand in contrast to diaspora built equivalents, which rely on large scale exoskeletons or whatever. It depends on whatever specific technologies I use to fluff it out, I guess, but it would have to be smooth and light.

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My mental image is now either a slimmer, thinner MGSV Sneaking Suit, or a thicker version of the Ground Zeroes suit...

Also while MGS uses CQC mostly for hand to hand, depending on who you talk to CQC can also encompass shooting guns at people in small rooms 10 feet away, though i've also seen the term Close Quarters Battle. (Also the British Army's squaddie term for urban warfare is FISH & CHIPS: Fighting In Someone's House & Causing Havoc In People's Streets. )

 

[Ford Prefect]

My mental image is now either a slimmer, thinner MGSV Sneaking Suit, or a thicker version of the Ground Zeroes suit...

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I think that Raiden's cyborg body is a decent model as well. It's not really the the combat skin should appear without armoured or even mechanical components, otherwise it would look a little silly with a hard, enclosed helmet. But there should be something of a mystery as to how everything is packed in. Heaven has the ability to manufacture functional machinery at unusual densities, so one of the helmets might weigh like ... I dunno, forty or fifty kilos.

 

[EarthScorpion]

That's an interesting image. Crysis had that aquatic theme (that it completely bungled) and now I think about it the Ceph were also supposed to be living servitors of a more powerful species. I take it when you envision this kind of coral creature it's kind of on the monstrous side? Not necessarily something from Lovecraft's deeps or Pirates of the Caribbean 2, but with that sort of randomness that comes from the aimless growth of coral. Hmm ...

I guess my first feeling is that they should be majestic rather than grotesque. I've become pretty enamoured with the 'eternal empire of the dead' thing. Though I don't know what that means in practice I feel it allows for an aesthetic of nobility, preservation and stasis.

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They're consumer goods. Re-purposed consumer goods. It's just that... well, the people (possibly the Eloi) that they were meant to serve are long gone, and now they're just scattered toys left around. And some of them are smart enough to manage things and get their own goals. Which means they fight over control of the factories which can produce more of them, these fabrication pits. The smart ones have learned how to repair and re-purpose them, but they can't build new ones from scratch.

Everything they have wasn't made for war originally. It's just, when it comes down to it, demolition charges made to shatter asteroids with exotic matter can be mounted on super-fast one-man spacecraft and turned into missiles with a low-functioning pilot who knows how to steer it into the enemy, and they can mount mining tools on hover-trucks and turn them into things which are competitive with human tanks. And of course, their 'internet' makes a perfectly usable command network, all wired up to act as one.

Different "races"? Are different models. And even different groups have different aesthetics, because they're different brands. "Apple" and "Microsoft" clearly have the same core technological basis, but their "biology" works subtly differently and they even have problems talking to each other. Which means there's war.

 

[Ford Prefect]

They're consumer goods. Re-purposed consumer goods. It's just that... well, the people (possibly the Eloi) that they were meant to serve are long gone, and now they're just scattered toys left around. And some of them are smart enough to manage things and get their own goals. Which means they fight over control of the factories which can produce more of them, these fabrication pits. The smart ones have learned how to repair and re-purpose them, but they can't build new ones from scratch.

Everything they have wasn't made for war originally. It's just, when it comes down to it, demolition charges made to shatter asteroids with exotic matter can be mounted on super-fast one-man spacecraft and turned into missiles with a low-functioning pilot who knows how to steer it into the enemy, and they can mount mining tools on hover-trucks and turn them into things which are competitive with human tanks. And of course, their 'internet' makes a perfectly usable command network, all wired up to act as one.

Different "races"? Are different models. And even different groups have different aesthetics, because they're different brands. "Apple" and "Microsoft" clearly have the same core technological basis, but their "biology" works subtly differently and they even have problems talking to each other. Which means there's war.

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I can't say I really like this as an idea. It has that sort of cheap feeling, like the twist in a Shyamalan film. I like some aspects - the use of a conventional internet as a kind of communications system is cute - but in general it's just not my jam. I just can't make it work, on an aesthetic level, in my head. I'm also not really a fan of 'mining tools as weapons' in a very general sense. I understand it's supposed to imply the level of advancement involved because even their mining tools are effective as weapons, but the dichotomy implied has never really made a lot of sense to me. Like have you ever seen a rock drill or mining cutter in action? You obviously couldn't use one in combat, but I'd happily describe either as 'more powerful' than a rifle.

 

[Raumgespenst]

I can't say I really like this as an idea. It has that sort of cheap feeling, like the twist in a Shyamalan film. I like some aspects - the use of a conventional internet as a kind of communications system is cute - but in general it's just not my jam. I just can't make it work, on an aesthetic level, in my head.

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I'll point out it seems, since Crysis has come up before in the thread, that the idea seems like it's a pretty straight ripoff of the Ceph actually just being terraforming tools.

I'm also not really a fan of 'mining tools as weapons' in a very general sense. I understand it's supposed to imply the level of advancement involved because even their mining tools are effective as weapons, but the dichotomy implied has never really made a lot of sense to me. Like have you ever seen a rock drill or mining cutter in action? You obviously couldn't use one in combat, but I'd happily describe either as 'more powerful' than a rifle.

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I admit that I didn't know the idea of "Mining tools as weapons" was a pervasive idea that you've encountered the idea much, but I think you might be getting stuck on that one analogy. Most of the examples EarthScorpion were basically a mixture of stuff juryrigged into a weapon platform itself (I actually do think the kamikaze democharge idea as a replacement for missiles was kind of cool) with the sophistication of there technology making up for the inefficiencies of the tools designs being repurposed to combat. A real mining vehicle with a rock polisher would not really be a good idea for a thing to fight a tank, but if said vehicle was made out of material strong enough to withstand almost any conventional assault unscathed and fast enough to cross a tanks maximum range in a couple of instants. Obviously you'd be better off just using the technology for that to make a tank of your own, but the caveat here would be that they can't, and have to be clever to direct resources in a useful manner towards non mining goals. It just doesn't matter when going up against their human counterparts.

Admittedly I don't really blame you for not wanting to go with the idea, least of which because it's a pretty straight up rip off of the revaluation about the ceph from crysis: legion, but also because it kind of ignores all the other ideas about them in the post EarthScorpion quoted.

 

[BiopunkOtrera]

apart from being a rip off of Crisis legion, it also doesn't really work in the context presented.

In Crisis: Legion it works because the revelation is how relatively primative earth humans have managed to defeat the interstellar capable Ceph. Here we're talking about the war between two interstellar powers. Even if one is more potent than the other they have far more equality than earth humans vs. others.

It also kills the ability to do Ford's awesome "there's two alien factions fighting one another." thing, which is great and should be front and centre.

 

[Triggerhappy]

I think that Raiden's cyborg body is a decent model as well. It's not really the the combat skin should appear without armoured or even mechanical components, otherwise it would look a little silly with a hard, enclosed helmet. But there should be something of a mystery as to how everything is packed in. Heaven has the ability to manufacture functional machinery at unusual densities, so one of the helmets might weigh like ... I dunno, forty or fifty kilos.

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What about this?




Sans heels of course.

Also :



With less obvious seams and sans the brick helmet.

Also at that weight the helmet would be denser than depleted uranium by an order of about two to three depending on how much larger than the wearer's head it winds up being. Nothing super science can't solve but I thought I'd point that out.

 

[Triggerhappy]

I'm also not really a fan of 'mining tools as weapons' in a very general sense. I understand it's supposed to imply the level of advancement involved because even their mining tools are effective as weapons, but the dichotomy implied has never really made a lot of sense to me. Like have you ever seen a rock drill or mining cutter in action? You obviously couldn't use one in combat, but I'd happily describe either as 'more powerful' than a rifle.

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Admittedly I don't really blame you for not wanting to go with the idea, least of which because it's a pretty straight up rip off of the revaluation about the ceph from crysis: legion, but also because it kind of ignores all the other ideas about them in the post EarthScorpion quoted.

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I think the repurposing tools as weapons thing is a good cliche but it usually gets overplayed to the point of ridiculousness. A story like the Kzinti Lesson does the concept well because the star drive in question has all of the elements necessary to make a good improvised weapon which was the stories point.

A better way to handle this is the fact that most of the underlying engineering is more or less taken right off the civilian shelf, hardened to military levels and then issued out as weaponry and military equipment. Which is why it all tends to seem all at once powerful, rugged, and highly refined (because many of the designs have been perfected over dozens of civilian iterations) thus giving it a feeling of great advancement without Heaven having the military spending/devotion of effort of the Space! Soviet Union.

The best way to depict this would probably be with background lore or peculiarities about the equipment. For instance the Kerykeion might have equipment for operating in extremely hostile environments, like deep into the atmosphere of a gas giant, because she was originally a 'Coast Guard' ship which was re-purposed as a spec ops ride.

 

[Ford Prefect]

In Crisis: Legion it works because the revelation is how relatively primative earth humans have managed to defeat the interstellar capable Ceph. Here we're talking about the war between two interstellar powers. Even if one is more potent than the other they have far more equality than earth humans vs. others.

It also kills the ability to do Ford's awesome "there's two alien factions fighting one another." thing, which is great and should be front and centre.

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As I see it Heaven having mature, strong AI means I can suppose that they have the ability to go pound-for-pound with the much older Efreet with their cast-offs from the gods. Ascribing it to artificial intelligence, while also having the rest of the (less technologically capable) diaspora for contrast, means I feel that it escapes some (though not all) of that awkward 'humans are so awesome' stuff that was pervasive in Mass Effect.

What about this?

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Alternate universe Cibo was so cool. Both of those examples are pretty good. I think some of the new designs in Halo 5 capture that correct sense of sleekness, too.

Also at that weight the helmet would be denser than depleted uranium by an order of about two to three depending on how much larger than the wearer's head it winds up being. Nothing super science can't solve but I thought I'd point that out.

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Uh, well, you know, maths isn't my strong point ...

 

[Havocfett]

Uh, well, you know, maths isn't my strong point ...

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The last time Ford was eyeballing weight for cyborgs on IRC he ended up asking if we'd date a radioactive woman.

 

[Triggerhappy]

Question. So far we've got a lot about Heaven's contribution militarily. So are the baseline humans completely helpless or are they at least able to do some damage if they bring enough gun?

 

[Ford Prefect]

The last time Ford was eyeballing weight for cyborgs on IRC he ended up asking if we'd date a radioactive woman.

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Hey, her unusually high density was an important part of the social commentary

Question. So far we've got a lot about Heaven's contribution militarily. So are the baseline humans completely helpless or are they at least able to do some damage if they bring enough gun?

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It would be a little absurd if they couldn't ever achieve anything, but it's just not really practical to do so consistently, and the Efreet go substantially further up in scale than the diaspora.

 

[Triggerhappy]

It would be a little absurd if they couldn't ever achieve anything, but it's just not really practical to do so consistently, and the Efreet go substantially further up in scale than the diaspora.

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In my head they're now a cross between the USCM and ISA with a dusting of Advanced Warfare. The grandaddies of Halo's marines riding around on incredibly unsafe hover jeeps while dragging around an arsenal of reassuringly boxy and olive drab Tom Clancy-esque ordinance fighting the good fight in the background.

Also at least once during the campaign you get to drive one of their multiped tanks / hover jeeps

 

[Ford Prefect]

In my head they're now a cross between the USCM and ISA with a dusting of Advanced Warfare. The grandaddies of Halo's marines riding around on incredibly unsafe hover jeeps while dragging around an arsenal of reassuringly boxy and olive drab Tom Clancy-esque ordinance fighting the good fight in the background.

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They're evolved from now but still recognisable. A lightweight high performance ETC rifle with dynamic recoil compensation and computer mediated aim assistance is still basically just a gun as we'd understand it. We have equivalents to most of everything that, say, Petra's militia uses, but the diaspora has equipment that performs better, is more reliable, is lighter etc. Like their equivalent to a ghillie suit is an invisibility cloak, they have native drone support, same combat stimulants and so on.

Comparisons between military units is always a little imperfect, but if you took Petra's light infantry team and pitted against some equivalent from modern earth it would be a pretty unfair match-up. Anything can happen on the battlefield, but the tools available to Petra's team means their situational awareness is well ahead. They'll acquire their targets first and engaged with substantially superior lethality.

That sort of thing can't beat the Efreet, however.

 

[Triggerhappy]

Like their equivalent to a ghillie suit is an invisibility cloak, they have native drone support, same combat stimulants and so on.

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That sounds pretty much exactly like what I was describing.

 

[Ford Prefect]

That sounds pretty much exactly like what I was describing.

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The Ghost Recon dudes in Future Soldier probably aren't a bad model for an underfunded boondocks militia lol