How so? As is, it's obviously he's just opportunistically looking to gain power and seems to have some kind of unsavory habits. I don't see how any deal as is we have any guarantee at all that this guy's really on the up and up. Per WoG he may want to get in on the ground floor but he may also decide after our initial help that we're not actually going places and just bail, leaving us with wasted effort.
I never said it would, so I'm not sure what you're arguing against. I'm saying that we should explicitly build-in to hedge against that possibility. I don't understand why you seem to think that would make him more willing to betray us--if that was the case we shouldn't have anything at all to do with him.
It costs us implicit capital with Arete, who's trying to do the same damned thing we are - feel out what kind of entity Charshel is without actually committing to anything. Push too hard, and he switches from trying to get in on the ground floor to trying to make sure we never amount to anything, because we're too much of a pain to work with - if he can't get in on the ground floor, well, we've not assured him that his rivals can't.
Anything we try to get out of him from this should be in the line of explicitly not being a major commitment, but rather a token to demonstrate there's more than an attempt at leaching power going on - and honestly, given the complete lack of time limit or magnitude on the assistance requested, I'm not sure why you consider the possibility of no return to be a significant risk.
I mean, providing Arete with the information we already have on the Rotten Bone Dragon (or a subset thereof) doesn't exactly cost us much, and arguably fulfills our part of the bargain!
It costs us implicit capital with Arete, who's trying to do the same damned thing we are - feel out what kind of entity Charshel is without actually committing to anything. Push too hard, and he switches from trying to get in on the ground floor to trying to make sure we never amount to anything, because we're too much of a pain to work with - if he can't get in on the ground floor, well, we've not assured him that his rivals can't.
Anything we try to get out of him from this should be in the line of explicitly not being a major commitment, but rather a token to demonstrate there's more than an attempt at leaching power going on - and honestly, given the complete lack of time limit or magnitude on the assistance requested, I'm not sure why you consider the possibility of no return to be a significant risk.
I mean, providing Arete with the information we already have on the Rotten Bone Dragon (or a subset thereof) doesn't exactly cost us much, and arguably fulfills our part of the bargain!
What time and effort? Whatever time we spend here talking to him is trivial compared to time and effort just spent moving around the Drains.
Yes, and if he's feeling us out that we're a chump desperate for supplicants that we'll take the first offer given without even putting any strings on it, what impression does *that* give? There are separate concerns here--one that he'll just welch, two that fast agreement is itself an impression and not necessarily a positive one.
I would assume that whatever information we have on the Bone Dragon is already known by him if he's come this far. I'm expecting extra effort to be taken to even fulfill the bare minimum of whatever oath is given.
That he'll welch is not a risk we have much reason to care about - as prices go, for finding out that someone's untrustworthy, this one's cheap.
And there's more than one bad impression we can send here - in some ways, chump is safer than being seen as trying to gouge someone for what's damned near a friendly hello.
That he'll welch is not a risk we have much reason to care about - as prices go, for finding out that someone's untrustworthy, this one's cheap.
And there's more than one bad impression we can send here - in some ways, chump is safer than being seen as trying to gouge someone for what's damned near a friendly hello.
You keep on focusing on "how to get more out of Arete" rather than "how to offer less."
Given the biggest risk of this bargain, as far as I can tell, is that we're implicitly promising not to kill or cripple Arete before he makes the attack on the Rotten Bone Dragon...
A better exit strategy for us is a whole lot more useful than trying to deny an exit to Arete. I don't want to turn every meeting with someone new into an attempt to squeeze concessions out of them; it discourages people from trying to bargain with us.
You keep on focusing on "how to get more out of Arete" rather than "how to offer less."
Given the biggest risk of this bargain, as far as I can tell, is that we're implicitly promising not to kill or cripple Arete before he makes the attack on the Rotten Bone Dragon...
A better exit strategy for us is a whole lot more useful than trying to deny an exit to Arete. I don't want to turn every meeting with someone new into an attempt to squeeze concessions out of them; it discourages people from trying to bargain with us.
No, I'm focusing on "how to guarantee getting anything at all", that's not trying to get more.
Constraining us from making negative moves against him along with forcing us to give something positive is already huge for what we're offering.
I think you're mis-portraying things. I don't think every meeting with someone new is going to have them tearing a goblin in half as an offering to us.
Okay, I've been lurking for a little bit, so let me just use my first post here to say this:
All of you wondering about if he's going to Welch or not, do remember that there's this thing called Karma at play here. If he doesn't go after the bone dragon, he's Forsworn. If he says that he never said when he would do it, he still takes a massive hit on his Karma.
As long as we aid him somehow and uphold our part of the deal we'll get the reward. If anything, it's him who has to worry about us giving him "emotional support" by watching from the sidelines and screwing him over.
Take the deal. If he reneges he's Forsworn. If he deals in bad faith he loses Karma, which is especially valuable when you're stuck in the location-equivalent of "things get worse". If he can use our aid against the dragon in any way we've fulfilled our part of the bargain. When we fulfill a bargain we get good karma for dealing in good faith, and him succeeding is just the incentive to help out more substantially.
Providing the information we have on the Rotten Bone Dragon that provides us with that stealth bonus is probably enough to count as a minimal helpful aid, considering the witch was able to pay the debt to us she accepted with information.
I'd suggest that after Possession is completed, we learn Curse. Giving a penalty to the Rotten Bone Dragon would both not place us in harm's way and would count as significant assistance. Furthermore, being able to curse her enemies for her is a potent bargaining tool with Revy.
[X] Agree (Creates a binding oath between you and Arete. Receive bonus Congregation exp should you see it fulfilled. Need not be accomplished immediately.)
I-it's Not Like I Like You or Anything!: +2 points
Goblin Flesh: +1d6 personal experience = +6 points
Needless to say: you have reservations. Arete's reasons; his actions - even the nature of his proposal? It's suspect to say the least. Still, he has been fairly explicit in his phrasing and has offered you bloody hospitality; while you wouldn't go so far as to count him amongst your friends, you believe the two of you can do business.
Tipping the goblin's remains into your mouth, you feel the viscera pour down your throat; then, you nod your head. "Yes," you pronounce, the oath heavy with power and consequence. Creating a kind of bond between you and Arete, it promises both tempting rewards and grim reprisals should either of you break it. In the meantime, it'll serve as a channel for your fearsome presence, and grasping that connection now, you let your existence leak into the aether.
The ground withers beneath Arete's feet. A meager facsimile of your own blighted presence, it'll help fulfill your outstanding obligations, though more will likely be required.
"Hmm," Arete murmurs, intrigued by the strange effect. Rolling his neck once or twice, while he adapts to the sudden change, you can see the muck clinging to his fur start to blacken, the algae struck dead where it lies.
"What will you do now?" you ask, once he reigns in the noxious working. "Will you head to the dragon's lair, or have you yet to put your affairs in order?"
Arete taps a claw against his palm. "More the latter, I should think. As I said, this was a rather unexpected boon, thankful though I am for it."
A pensive look steals across the Other's face, and his eyes turn to his other companions. "Seven days," he calls back, before repeating it much more firmly. "Yes, I shall finish my preparations before the week's end. I dislike setting hard deadlines for anything I do, but in this case I believe we can deal in good faith."
An ironic turn of phrase from someone who murdered one of his subordinates. Nevertheless, the spirits leave a favorable impression, and you're willing to heed their advice.
"Excellent," Arete answers, when he sees you incline your head. "In that case, I'll take my leave, until the deadline lies fast before us. Go in good health."
"You as well," you echo, even as your footsteps trail behind him.
Following along in his wake through the fetid mud of the swamp, Arete gets almost a dozen steps, before pausing with his compatriots in toe. "...Pardon," he begins, "and I don't want to seem impolite, but are we headed in the same direction or are you actually following me?"
Stopping to give the question thought, you tilt your head to the side. "Yes," you tell him, your face blank as fresh cement. "What I have offered is currently insufficient. I will help you settle your remaining affairs."
The Other seems uncertain whether he should treat that as some sort of threat. "...Very well," he finally replies, before heading further into the Drains. "If that is your will..."
You resume your tireless trek. It is.
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Eventually, the two of you reach the remains of a small, patchwork encampment. Positioned away from the river on the shore of the eastern bank, it's been assembled through a mixture of effort and the Drain's own hostile environment.
A dark submerged pit, perhaps twenty meters in depth, it looks to you like the remains of a dead-fall or a well excavated cistern. Stairs have been dug into the side allowing your silent procession to descend; however, due to the humid air, the steps have been steadily degraded. Soon, they will disappear entirely and be reclaimed by the waiting Abyss. In the meanwhile, they serve their intended purpose and provide an extra layer of defense.
"Fuckcup, go find the Mechanic, tell him we're proceeding tomorrow."
A fat goblin with a puss drenched chin frowns at Arete's quiet order. Scratching his ass, before waddling off into the muck, it's clear he'd rather do otherwise, but fears the Other's wrath more.
You watch him scamper away with a feeling of distant ambivalence. Joined by several more, before you reach the center of the settlement, their quiet servitude reflects well on Arete, though not necessarily on his nature. "They seem... unusually compliant. Excessively so for goblins."
Arete laughs at your implied question. "I should think so; the little bastards would have to be half-mad to ever bend the knee without complaint." His chuckles fall upon your ears like dice on heavy wood. "Will you be staying with us long, or should I expect you to disappear? It makes no difference to me, but a little forewarning would be nice."
You shrug your shoulders uncertainly, unwilling to provide an answer. To be honest, you only followed along because you had nothing better to do. Taking a seat on a rock positioned around a small, rotting tree, Arete climbs up to the branches above, and soon a silence settles between you until a revenant approaches through the mud.
A pale, decaying corpse plastered over with molten steel, he moves with a rapid gait, despite the scars which crisscross his flesh. Old wounds; wrinkled contusions - you're uncertain if they were caused by accident; however, the recent damage has been done by design.
You stare at a thin network of metal rods that extends from his left hand. Tipped with knives and nails - as well as several circular saws - you wouldn't expect the kludge to be functional, but they twitch like a meth addict's fingers.
"Arete," he whispers, the sound like steam escaping a kettle. "What's changed?"
"Many things," the brunette laughs, his talons rapping against the tree. "Is it a problem?"
The revenant shakes his head. "No." Then, as if pursuing another thought entirely, he glances over his shoulder. "Most will not survive. I want half of the ones who do."
"Will I get them back?" Arete asks carelessly, unbothered by the revenant's demand. "If so, then by all means; otherwise, content yourself with the dead."
The Mechanic looks over, the plates nailed to his chest rattling. "A quarter."
"An eighth," Arete insists, his hand sliding through the muggy air. "I've been more than considerate so far. Don't take my kindness for less."
"...An eighth," the creature finally agrees, his head bobbing up and down. "Supplies?"
"In the cave. Take whatever you need."
Walking away from the tree, back towards the main encampment, you follow the revenant with your eyes, and then turn to Arete himself. "Preparations?"
The Other hums in agreement. "Yes. Something I've been working on for quite some time. If you'd like, you're more than welcome to join in the festivities."
Staring up at him curiously, a mou of interest escapes your lips.
Arete smiles. "Let's just say that I intend to break some more bread."
Arete is gathering his subordinates to attack the local goblins. Should you:
[ ] Stay out of it. (Will still need something to help settle the debt between you. Little chance of danger.)
[ ] Join the attack (Will help settle the debt between you. Gain personal exp based upon your performance.)
[ ] Observe the mechanic at work. (Unknown effect.)
Stats: (click tabs to expand)
Revy (0/0 Pooled/Spent)
Firearms 3: +30 combat modifier to rolls that make use of any guns (stacks with Pistols and other guns)
Pistols 4: +40 combat modifier to rolls which involve Revy's Berettas
Rifles 2: +20 combat modifier to rolls in which Revy uses a rifle
Melee 2: +20 combat modifier to any rolls done in melee (stacks with both Pistols and other guns)
Unarmed 2: +20 combat modifier to rolls with your bare hands (stacks with Melee bonus)
Knife 1: +10 combat modifier to rolls which involve a knife (stacks with Melee bonus)
Explosives 1: +10 to rolls involving incendiaries or other bombs (may stack with firearms in the case of things like RPGs)
Movement 1: +10 to rolls involving acrobatics, stamina and the like
Transportation 1: +10 to rolls involving planes, boats or other motorized vehicles
Sense 1: +10 to rolls involving detecting hidden objects/enemies
Intimidation 2: +20 to rolls in which you attempt to persuade by force
Congregation, your friends and allies (0/44 Pooled/Spent):
Fuckcunt, the goblin: Fuckcunt is a truly loathsome example of his species; however, his nature resonates with your own and that gives you something of an in. Should you choose to, you may cultivate this connection in the hope that he will lend you his aid.
Sarah, the ferry-girl: an abused youth raped and left for dead, she fell through the cracks in the system and has found herself trapped in the Drains. Navigating the uncertain currents which separate the Larval Pits from the human village above, you have lent a supportive ear to her woes and profited by it in return. (+10 bonus to avoiding local dangers; +25 when in her presence; ally can be killed in combat.)
Telephone Tag: having supped with the witch of the hamlet you've learned much about the people in its borders. While most of the information is trivial and of relatively minor importance, it still gives you a better feel for the humans who make up the town. +5 to social combat rolls with the inhabitants of the human village; gain a +8 social combat modifier to humans in general (effects stack.)
I-It's Not Like I Like You or Anything!: having shown your face you have made yourself known within the Drains as a spirit that is present, if nothing else. +10 to social checks with the residents of the human village. +1d4 personal experience every turn to yourself due to their attention and regard.
Be Very Very Quiet, There Are More Than Rabbits Down Here: that's right, there's also mutant gators. Now that you're aware of that gain +5 to local threat checks
Rotten Bone Dragon: deep in the muck between the Larval Pits and the passage to the world outside lies the Abyss' appointed guardian. A mammoth creature born from the demesnes' forsaken energies, it will attack all who dare approach, though some more quickly than others. (experienced with avoiding the Bone Dragon; +10 to stealth checks against it. Should you and another be detected, increased chance it will prioritize your companion/enemy.)
Hate You... so much: the Drains is a place of change, the great compost heap of the universe. By plumbing its nature and intent you find it is far easier to become something new than to remain merely as you were. Exp costs of the Twisted Form series are halved. Twisted Form may now be used to attempt to counter Enchantments. Stacks with other forms of resistance.
Charshel, god of Murdered Innocence (0/47 Pooled/Spent):
Aspect 1: you are able to intuitively track and recognize people who fall within your purview. Range is 10 kilometers; grants +10 to social combat/knowledge rolls regarding such individuals
Blighted Presence 2: due to your poisonous nature all combat rolls made against your person are done with a -20 combat modifier.
Spiritual Presence 2: you are not a mortal being, and your nature reflects that. Unless a weapon is explicitly magical it is incapable of harming your person. Should something dispel your physical form you will often (though not always) have the option to re-materialize following a hit to your personal experience. Should you not be able to do so, you die and the game is over.
Twisted Form 1: you were once a being of youth, innocence and vitality... now that is no longer true. Due to alterations by the Drains your form is muddied granting you limited control over how you appear to others. May take the form of any of your worshipers and adjust small details regarding your physical appearance (hair, height, eye color, so on)
Magic Resistance 1: as an ancient and powerful spirit, even magic can crumble in your presence; as a result, gain +10 when rolling to resist another practitioner's working; this does not apply to attempts to dispel something cast on an area or another person.
Upgrades:
Notice: general categories (Firearms, Melee, etc) may only be leveled up to rank 5 without resorting to supernatural influence. Sub-catgeories (pistol, rifle, etc) share the same rule with the additional restriction that they cannot be raised to more than one level over the general category. (For example, because Firearms is at level 3, Pistols cannot be raised to level 5. Should Firearms hit level 4, Pistols may level up accordingly.)
Notice 2: in the event exp exceeds the cost of a desired upgrade, the remainder will be banked until your next turn.
Revy:
[X]Movement 2: +20 to rolls involving acrobatics, stamina and the like (0/20) [LOCKED IN]
Congregation:
[X]All the Lights in the Sky are Stars: even here, spirits exist in all their myriad forms. Offer some small favors to the local spirits in order to build up your karmic balance. +10 to any three rolls of your choice, works on a charge system (3/3), can only be done in the Drains (for now) and must be declared beforehand. (4/5) [locked in]
Charshel, god of Murdered Innocence
[X] Possession 1: a unique entwining between yourself and Revy. Gain the ability to communicate near flawlessly regardless of the distance involved. May include side-effects. (37/50) [LOCKED IN]
[X] Join the attack (Will help settle the debt between you. Gain personal exp based upon your performance.)
-[X] Suggest roundabout, subtle methods of attack if possible.
Goblins, even in a mass, are not the most dangerous thing around. Still, no reason to compete with goblins in what they're best at. The other Pact quest put it well: deal with goblins with subtlety and fairies with bluntness.
[X] Join the attack (Will help settle the debt between you. Gain personal exp based upon your performance.)
-[X] Suggest roundabout, subtle methodsof attack if possible.
Ah, goblins, the most acceptable of targets. The hidden box is always interesting, but beating up goblins is both a safe choice and satisfying as well.
[X] Join the attack (Will help settle the debt between you. Gain personal exp based upon your performance.)
-[X] Suggest roundabout, subtle methods of attack if possible.
[X] Join the attack (Will help settle the debt between you. Gain personal exp based upon your performance.)
-[X] Suggest roundabout, subtle methods of attack if possible.
@violetshadows based on the roll above, could we have actually failed to empower Arete with a bad roll? And was the bonus to him tiered, flat, or just a straight modified roll / 20?
@violetshadows based on the roll above, could we have actually failed to empower Arete with a bad roll? And was the bonus to him tiered, flat, or just a straight modified roll / 20?
Not really, because the result is Roll + modifiers / 20
Typically the skills that effect it are Aspect, Spiritual Presence and a few others further down the tree, but you haven't quite gotten those yet. You see - in Pact, most gods operate by spending power (in your case experience), and then reaping rewards depending on how successful the recipient is. For example, if you tried to empower the boogeyman a couple of chapters back, you probably would have taken a minor hit to exp (1d4 ish) that would have been refunded depending on how Anderson performed. Arete on the other hand didn't cost you anything; he's got some karmic good will saved up and the spirits took the hit for you.
Truthfully, I probably should have clarified this sooner, but I didn't want to info dump on you unless it proved somewhat relevant. In the interest of fairness, the only other mechanic I've really held back is binding, and it hasn't come up. Granted, that might change, because goblins? Yeah, they canonically turn into weapons.
The Hyena was a particularly large goblin that spent a lot of time hunting Blake. After he defeated it, it turned into a sword that killed and scarred things permanently.
The Hyena was a particularly large goblin that spent a lot of time hunting Blake. After he defeated it, it turned into a sword that killed and scarred things permanently.
It's pretty heavily implied that it's all goblins. He fought two others, one of which turned into a spiked chain, if I'm remembering right. It's kind of hilarious in retrospect; he doesn't even really cast a spell. He just tells the thing to 'assume the position,' and it does as a matter of course.
Yeah, I brought the Hyena up as the most prominent example. He carries that thing everywhere, even after he, by all rights, shouldn't even have it. Freaky.
