Remove ads

Building The Best Ship?

Reader mode
MagisterAurelius said:
Okay, What aesthetic are we going for? This also bears some relevance as to where the rangefinders and fire control directors go as well. Should emulate the British and United States who opted for the office building look with either tripod or lattice masts? Or perhaps the German industrial/Bauhaus (ie Scharnhorst) look? Follow the artistic fads like the Italians and go Art Deco/Futurist curvy tower mast? Or dare we go the Full Pagoda™ and make the Fusos weep with envy? :p
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Pagoda masts are right out: they cause massive strain on the hull and can excaberate keel twist. They also add a mess of concentrated topweight that ruins any bad-weather capability the ship has. Let the Fusous keep their milstones; we need something better. A tripod spotting mast isn't a bad design plan, and we do need a good point to put our rangefinder. Going for a more blocky superstructure would be my choice, something maybe thirty or forty feet tall, running under our mast and back to and around the stack(s) and to a rear point where we taper to the interlock of the rear turret. This gives us plenty of room for personal requirements, fleet staff, communications rooms, backups, and balconies where we can slap on flak later.

tomwritestuff said:
Not sure if that area can realistically fit two pairs in the way I C&Ped them in, and I doubt it's a great place to put them, but ... twelve is a really large number of 12cm turrets to stick on a treaty battleship.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Honestly, my recommendation is to just delete the casement deck entirely and adopt the same trick the Americans and Germans used, making a double row where the inboard layer is partially superfiring over the outboard layer. A double 12cm gun would need a turret casement anyway, so it makes a certain amount of sense.

As for the four turrets mounted below the casement deck in the opening pic? Yeah, that spot is terrible due to the amount of spray it gets, plus the issue of cramming the guns in too tight.
 
Updated sketch. Added torpedos, smoke stack with searchlight platforms and adjusted the conning tower size. Also moved the forward pair of 12cm guns to midships.

I'll work on some superstructure options as examples to choose inspiration from later. For now, here's Alpen again:

 
To fit those four turrets in at amidships, could they possibly placed as "super firing" as in an elevated deck compared to the other 8 turrets in order to retain good firing arcs? It would raise the center of weight but I don't think it would have that massive of an effect, and the turbo electric machinery would minimize the effect of interference with the internal layout of the ship.

Think Gneisensau in WoWs with the 128mm gun DP secondary hull, but more compact.

EDIT: Sleep addled brain is sleep addled. That appears to have been exactly what you have done. Honestly though, the fact that there is a space for a third turret on either side of the ship on that deck makes me want to either move it so that the middle spaces are the empty ones, or to add another two secondary turrets.
 
Last edited:
I'm considering moving the two turrets flanking the stack back down to the main secondary level. That would free up room for superstructure and masts, along with allowing for platforms for the 75mm guns. I also am trying to keep some space free for stuff like the ship's boats and cranes.

Once other countries get a look at a finished Alpen, I believe that there are going to be some serious "How the hell did they pull that off" in regards to our secondaries. The US in particular is going to be rather annoyed at our anti-aircraft potential.
 
7734 said:
Honestly, my recommendation is to just delete the casement deck entirely and adopt the same trick the Americans and Germans used, making a double row where the inboard layer is partially superfiring over the outboard layer. A double 12cm gun would need a turret casement anyway, so it makes a certain amount of sense.

As for the four turrets mounted below the casement deck in the opening pic? Yeah, that spot is terrible due to the amount of spray it gets, plus the issue of cramming the guns in too tight.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Exactly my thoughts. You have more spray and more restricted fields of fire when you're placing stuff down there. That said, since you're using the Ersatz Monarch as your immediate model, this "casemate deck" area is on the same level as the aft deck, rather than being set down below it as with the Tegetthoff and many contemporaries (which is why that space only exists in the forward half of the ship and not the aft half of the ship).

In the Ersatz Monarch class, the plan was to move the casemates up a level Instead of being a deck below the main guns, they're on the same deck level as the aft turrets - on top of the "main deck" rather than within it - and that "casemate deck" area became significantly larger. Deleting the casemates themselves leaves you with even more room on those "casemate decks."

Exactly what you're going to do with that area, I'm not entirely sure.
Adhoc vote count started by tomwritestuff on Nov 1, 2017 at 4:44 PM, finished with 75 posts and 12 votes.
Click to expand...
 
tomwritestuff said:
Exactly what you're going to do with that area, I'm not entirely sure.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well, we have several options. Boats, 75mm, 20mm, searchlights, rangefinders, maybe more 12cm... Lots of options.

MagisterAurelius said:
I'm considering moving the two turrets flanking the stack back down to the main secondary level. That would free up room for superstructure and masts, along with allowing for platforms for the 75mm guns. I also am trying to keep some space free for stuff like the ship's boats and cranes.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

My big item I'd suggest is actually leaving the secondary array alone for now, since we can mount the secondary's FC systems on the platforms that are on the raised level fore of the stacks. The seventy-fives will mount pretty much everywhere without RPC systems or with them, and if push comes to shove we can mount them on the fore end under the traverse of the B turret and aft along the top edge of a lowered superstructure. Fortunately, if we go for a straight stack, we can build cranes around and with it.
 
MagisterAurelius said:
Updated sketch. Added torpedos, smoke stack with searchlight platforms and adjusted the conning tower size. Also moved the forward pair of 12cm guns to midships.

I'll work on some superstructure options as examples to choose inspiration from later. For now, here's Alpen again:

Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

She's starting to look properly dangerous. Nice work, MA.
 
As promised found some examples of superstructures that are 1920s appropriate, which is why I didn't put up anything from any 1930s German ships.



So what would design aesthetic should we emulate, ie, how do you want me to draw our Austrian girl? ;)
 
MagisterAurelius said:
As promised found some examples of superstructures that are 1920s appropriate, which is why I didn't put up anything from any 1930s German ships.



So what would design aesthetic should we emulate, ie, how do you want me to draw our Austrian girl? ;)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm liking the F3 to be honest.
It looks like it has plenty of spots to slap low calibre AA onto it as well as actually having some redundant space, meaning it shouldn't be able to be decapitated by a single hit to the upper superstructure.

Maybe merge it with the American design and add some catwalks and balconies around it?
 
I vote mix of Pasta and Tea. I hate the mesh masts of the standard type battleships, the German one feels too blunt, and the French one doesn't have enough "solid" superstructure. I like the Queen Anne style of the British superstructure, but the Italian one is nice and fluid as well.

I'm seriously considering commissioning an artist to draw Alpen and Karpaten after they're launched, and have some exploits to base details off of.

EDIT:I probably should have specified as shipfus.
 
Last edited:
My suggestion is a suggestion of long like the Germans and sleek like Pasta. It'll need some balconies, of course, but we can work with it.
 
I don't know of many artists that are particularly competent in the creation of 1920s hypothetical warships, and the overlap with people that draw bote waifus is probably even smaller.

On a mostly unrelated side note, here is the one artist that I do know draws good historical boat, but not waifus unfortunately. Mitchellnolte's DeviantArt Gallery

 
@tomwritestuff Really, really stupid and important question- does the Alpen currently run on AC current because that's what the Lexington power plant is designed around producing for ship use, or DC because literally every other ship in the KuK Kriegsmarine uses?
 
[X] Marie said she was waiting for an "appropriate time" to leave your apartment this morning after spending the night so that nobody would notice. And then called in "sick."
-[X] (spending the night on your couch)
[X] "So the two of you are going to have a duel," you say.
-[X] "Right. I think I have a pair of dueling pistols in my office, and Severino should wake up soon enough, let's go outside and get things ready, shall we?"
--[X] Moving quickly, you swapped the live rounds in the guns for some soap rounds you kept on hand "just in case". It wouldn't do for your foreign affairs expert and scientist to kill each other.
[X] … the figure had a suspicious bulge in his jacket pocket.
[X] "I'm sorry, but I didn't want to disappoint you when I rushed through. I wasn't expecting to spend very long here."
[X] Call someone in the intelligence service to let them know what Bernd was doing when he got killed.
[X] 152mm top / 305mm sides / 432mm face / 432mm barbettes
[X] 80mm
[X] EMULATE Hawkins class cruiser
[X] EMULATE Koester class cruiser
[X] AVOID Omaha class cruiser
[X] AVOID Svetlana-class cruiser
[X] get the reverse-engineered 75mm into widespread production quickly in anticipation of widespread demand.
 
Sturmi said:
I vote mix of Pasta and Tea. I hate the mesh masts of the standard type battleships, the German one feels too blunt, and the French one doesn't have enough "solid" superstructure. I like the Queen Anne style of the British superstructure, but the Italian one is nice and fluid as well.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm inclined to agree. The USN Cage Masts are just... no, ugh. The UK design pure is a bit too tall and blocky, but add in some Pasta to the Tea, and I think we've got a winner that will provide plenty of AA placements, and a nice, intimidating profile.
 
[X] Marie said she was waiting for an "appropriate time" to leave your apartment this morning after spending the night so that nobody would notice. And then called in "sick."
-[X] (spending the night on your couch)

[X] "So the two of you are going to have a duel," you say.
-[X] "Right. I think I have a pair of dueling pistols in my office, and Severino should wake up soon enough, let's go outside and get things ready, shall we?"
--[X] Moving quickly, you swapped the live rounds in the guns for some soap rounds you kept on hand "just in case". It wouldn't do for your foreign affairs expert and scientist to kill each other.

[X] … the figure had a suspicious bulge in his jacket pocket.

[X] "I'm sorry, but I didn't want to disappoint you when I rushed through. I wasn't expecting to spend very long here."

[X] Call someone in the intelligence service to let them know what Bernd was doing when he got killed.

[X] 152mm top / 305mm sides / 432mm face / 432mm barbettes

[X] 80mm

[X] EMULATE Hawkins class cruiser
[X] EMULATE Koester class cruiser
[X] AVOID Omaha class cruiser
[X] AVOID Svetlana-class cruiser
[X] get the reverse-engineered 75mm into widespread production quickly in anticipation of widespread demand.
 
[X] Marie said she was waiting for an "appropriate time" to leave your apartment this morning after spending the night so that nobody would notice. And then called in "sick."
-[X] (spending the night on your couch)

[X] "So the two of you are going to have a duel," you say.
-[X] "Right. I think I have a pair of dueling pistols in my office, and Severino should wake up soon enough, let's go outside and get things ready, shall we?"
--[X] Moving quickly, you swapped the live rounds in the guns for some soap rounds you kept on hand "just in case". It wouldn't do for your foreign affairs expert and scientist to kill each other.

[X] … the figure had a suspicious bulge in his jacket pocket.

[X] "I'm sorry, but I didn't want to disappoint you when I rushed through. I wasn't expecting to spend very long here."

[X] Call someone in the intelligence service to let them know what Bernd was doing when he got killed.

[X] 152mm top / 305mm sides / 432mm face / 432mm barbettes

[X] 80mm

[X] EMULATE Hawkins class cruiser
[X] EMULATE Koester class cruiser
[X] AVOID Omaha class cruiser
[X] AVOID Svetlana-class cruiser
[X] get the reverse-engineered 75mm into widespread production quickly inanticipation of widespread demand.
 
It is extremely frustrating to see a rush of votes obviously hastily copy/pasted before the deadline based solely on supporting a waifu from people who fail to engage with any other aspect of the quest, or indeed to engage with it at all, overriding the results of discussion between active posters.

As for superstructure I'd adapt the Italian style. It's the most Mediterranean adapted I would expect, and the most visually appealing. I'm not sure there's much of an Austrian "style" to be drawn from to add additional character.
 
Last edited:
Cavalier said:
It is extremely frustrating to see a rush of votes obviously hastily copy/pasted before the deadline based solely on supporting a waifu from people who fail to engage with any other aspect of the quest, or indeed to engage with it at all, overriding the results of discussion between active posters.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Such is the power of Worst Girl. Your only response is to retaliate in kind, and hope you have assembled the stronger of the two Web Brigades. Only time will determine who's shills prove victorious.

Meanwhile, Tom is in the corner going "Aha! The waifu wars are working! People are actually reading my stuff!" because all authors do that at some point when they do something with the Green Tag of Doom.
 
Shit, after the Cruiser is settled, what's the next big thing? We could probably use to build a destroyer or torpedo boat design fast enough to screen all the ships we currently have planned, with those nice 120mm DP gums or something heavier as their primary armament. (Also probably a light cruiser/destroyer leader class.)

I seriously doubt any of the destroyers we currently have can be expected to survive in the Adriatic or Med post 1930 if aviation improves as quickly as OTL.
 
Submarines are very useful in the Med. They act as a force multiplier and are able to operate when we're inevitably getting blockaded.
 
I should apologize for lashing out like that, and I was far too rude about it, but let's be serious. Marie has shown herself to be jealous, possessive, manipulative, and cruel. None of those traits are appealing, so when "i like yandere waifus" or "but she's a sexy secretary and that's my fetish" are given as reasons for voting from people who otherwise evidence no interest in naval architecture, the history of Austria-Hungary, or the cultural milieu of early 20th century Europe it is frustrating. And "but she's smart and likes chess" does not make up for the betrayal of Maximilian's trust and her demonstrated inability to keep professional in the office by sabotaging Bridgit and trying to mark Max as her territory in rudely receiving Elizabeth. All of her behavior is screaming "stay away" but evidently fetishism is more powerful than common sense.

Neither Elizabeth or Bridgit are stupid. Neither brings the complications of office romance with a clearly unstable secretary. Both have much more charitable and appealing personalities, and neither have demonstrated the willingness to go behind his back and betray his trust like Marie has. Frankly even if I do want to see Elizabeth more, at least there was powerful momentum behind Bridgit too. But with Marie you get more of the kind of behavior you reward, and rewarding her duplicity, jealousy, possessiveness, and lack of professionalism in the office is a terrible idea.
 
Darth said:
Submarines are very useful in the Med. They act as a force multiplier and are able to operate when we're inevitably getting blockaded.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Ehhhhh... Yes and no. At this point in time, they're totally unable of engaging military traffic, which is what we need to take out. A few badly-aimed metal fishies and a four inch deck gun ain't worth shit otherwise, though, and at this point our main goal is preventing our blockade. Once we're fighting free of the Adriatic, we don't need dedicated interdiction: everything is the interdiction.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top