Now begins the story of Maximilian Hohenwerfen, who was the single person most clearly...
Building The Best Ship?
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Introduction
- Location
- Across the universe
Now begins the story of Maximilian Hohenwerfen, who was the single person most clearly responsible for the design of the last battleship built by Austro-Hungary before the unfortunate end to the Great Peace. Maximilian Hohenwerfen - a bastard of the Habsburg family - started work in haste on Monday, December 18th, 1922.
Monday, December 18th, 1922
If you are to believe the editorials in the newspaper, President Harding has single-handedly ended the Ice War. You snort dubiously. The negotiations mark little more than the mutual recognition that after fifteen years of building ever-more-expensive dreadnoughts, the great powers cannot afford to continue building them endlessly, just as they cannot afford to risk them in battle. The last major wars between any two powers of note were the Spanish-American War and Russo-Japanese wars, and that ended before the HMS Dreadnought rendered the world's warships obsolete overnight, starting an arms race that seems to have thus far displaced any actual war between the major powers.
There have been some colonial rebellions, and some flare-ups involving minor powers and subject territories. The Cyprus Crisis seemed likely to start a truly massive war at the time, but it didn't.
You've heard some details about how the treaty negotiations have been going. The highlights are simple. It freezes the balance of power where it currently stands, putting a cap on the total tonnage of capital warships and restrictions on building new battleship – and it puts the brakes on the perpetual growth in the size of those ships by limiting battleships to a "standard" displacement of 35,000 tons, with guns no larger than 16".
It also permanently enshrines the balance of power, with the first-rate naval powers limited to 525,000 tons of battleships, the second-rate powers limited to 315,000 tons of battleships, and the various third-rate naval powers limited to 175,000 tons of battleships each.
Unfortunately, you don't work for one of those first rate powers. Your country doesn't even have close friendly diplomatic ties to any of the first rate powers. Your monarch is Franz Ferdinand I, Emperor of Austria and King of Hungary.
What you learned yesterday is that diplomats have earnestly proposed a five year moratorium on the construction of new ships... of course, ships that are already under construction that will comply with the limits of the treaty look like they will be exempted in negotiations, provided their owners scrap enough old battleships to bring themselves back under the limit. This includes the Nelson class, a pair of British ships ordered just ordered less than a week ago.
Hence the imperial order that landed on your desk this morning. Final negotiations on the exact list of ships retained by the powers are still underway, and your diplomatic team needs a thumbnail-sketch description of your new "already under construction" treaty-compliant class of battleships as soon as possible, so they can negotiate for them to be allowed under the treaty. And you need to arrange for them to become "under construction."
Unfortunately, you have nothing quite suitable at hand, which means this is going to be a rush job for the department. You'll have to outline the bare bones of the design without really having a very good idea about the consequences.
Mind you, you're much too junior for this level of responsibility. However, the head of your department is on vacation a thousand miles away, which has resulted in the delegation of that task to your immediate superior – who, while politically and bureaucratically adept, has no engineering background whatsoever, and thus delegated the task to you and your team.
You have an excellent team (you think) and you yourself are young, brilliant, and perhaps a bit brash.
Of course, in addition to your formal team, you have a network of contacts you can draw on. You are a bastard of the royal family. Yes, you are a Habsburg. Of the Habsburgs. Unofficially.
Until today, you entertained doubts you would leave any sort of legacy behind. But now? Your name will be attached to the history of one, or perhaps two, of your country's most important battleships. Perhaps, you even dare to speculate, now that things are turning your way, you might even get around to leaving a legacy of a different kind as well - you have sacrificed your personal life for career advancement for entirely too long.
Maybe once this project gets off the ground, you'll be able to direct some attention to getting married. Perhaps you'll even have some children. You'd like to have some eventually. Two, perhaps. A boy and a girl.
Well, first things first, you tell yourself.
Monday, December 18th, 1922
If you are to believe the editorials in the newspaper, President Harding has single-handedly ended the Ice War. You snort dubiously. The negotiations mark little more than the mutual recognition that after fifteen years of building ever-more-expensive dreadnoughts, the great powers cannot afford to continue building them endlessly, just as they cannot afford to risk them in battle. The last major wars between any two powers of note were the Spanish-American War and Russo-Japanese wars, and that ended before the HMS Dreadnought rendered the world's warships obsolete overnight, starting an arms race that seems to have thus far displaced any actual war between the major powers.
There have been some colonial rebellions, and some flare-ups involving minor powers and subject territories. The Cyprus Crisis seemed likely to start a truly massive war at the time, but it didn't.
You've heard some details about how the treaty negotiations have been going. The highlights are simple. It freezes the balance of power where it currently stands, putting a cap on the total tonnage of capital warships and restrictions on building new battleship – and it puts the brakes on the perpetual growth in the size of those ships by limiting battleships to a "standard" displacement of 35,000 tons, with guns no larger than 16".
It also permanently enshrines the balance of power, with the first-rate naval powers limited to 525,000 tons of battleships, the second-rate powers limited to 315,000 tons of battleships, and the various third-rate naval powers limited to 175,000 tons of battleships each.
Unfortunately, you don't work for one of those first rate powers. Your country doesn't even have close friendly diplomatic ties to any of the first rate powers. Your monarch is Franz Ferdinand I, Emperor of Austria and King of Hungary.
[] Wilhelm II, Emperor of Germany and King of Prussia. (315,000 ton limit.)
[] Nicholas II, Emperor and Autocrat of all the Russias. (315,000 ton limit.)
[] Franz Ferdinand I, Emperor of Austria and King of Hungary. (175,000 ton limit.)
[] Mehmed VI, Sultan of the Ottoman Empire. (175,000 ton limit.)
[] George II, King of the Hellenes. (175,000 ton limit.)
[] Alfonso XIII, King of Spain. (175,000 ton limit.)
[] Nicholas II, Emperor and Autocrat of all the Russias. (315,000 ton limit.)
[] Franz Ferdinand I, Emperor of Austria and King of Hungary. (175,000 ton limit.)
[] Mehmed VI, Sultan of the Ottoman Empire. (175,000 ton limit.)
[] George II, King of the Hellenes. (175,000 ton limit.)
[] Alfonso XIII, King of Spain. (175,000 ton limit.)
What you learned yesterday is that diplomats have earnestly proposed a five year moratorium on the construction of new ships... of course, ships that are already under construction that will comply with the limits of the treaty look like they will be exempted in negotiations, provided their owners scrap enough old battleships to bring themselves back under the limit. This includes the Nelson class, a pair of British ships ordered just ordered less than a week ago.
Hence the imperial order that landed on your desk this morning. Final negotiations on the exact list of ships retained by the powers are still underway, and your diplomatic team needs a thumbnail-sketch description of your new "already under construction" treaty-compliant class of battleships as soon as possible, so they can negotiate for them to be allowed under the treaty. And you need to arrange for them to become "under construction."
Unfortunately, you have nothing quite suitable at hand, which means this is going to be a rush job for the department. You'll have to outline the bare bones of the design without really having a very good idea about the consequences.
Mind you, you're much too junior for this level of responsibility. However, the head of your department is on vacation a thousand miles away, which has resulted in the delegation of that task to your immediate superior – who, while politically and bureaucratically adept, has no engineering background whatsoever, and thus delegated the task to you and your team.
You have an excellent team (you think) and you yourself are young, brilliant, and perhaps a bit brash.
[] Young, brilliant, and perhaps a bit brash (+2 innovation design checks, -1 diagnostic checks)
[] Worldly and well-traveled but perhaps a little too trusting (+2 reverse engineering checks, -1 information security checks)
[] Deeply patriotic though insular (+2 information security checks, -1 reverse engineering checks)
[] Old and seasoned, although less flexible (+2 diagnostic checks, -1 innovation design checks)
[] Worldly and well-traveled but perhaps a little too trusting (+2 reverse engineering checks, -1 information security checks)
[] Deeply patriotic though insular (+2 information security checks, -1 reverse engineering checks)
[] Old and seasoned, although less flexible (+2 diagnostic checks, -1 innovation design checks)
Of course, in addition to your formal team, you have a network of contacts you can draw on. You are a bastard of the royal family. Yes, you are a Habsburg. Of the Habsburgs. Unofficially.
[] Former captain of a warship.
[] Colonial from abroad.
[] Bastard of the royal family.
[] Immigrant recruited from
-[] (write-in country of origin)
[] Jew.
[] (write-in background)
[] Colonial from abroad.
[] Bastard of the royal family.
[] Immigrant recruited from
-[] (write-in country of origin)
[] Jew.
[] (write-in background)
Until today, you entertained doubts you would leave any sort of legacy behind. But now? Your name will be attached to the history of one, or perhaps two, of your country's most important battleships. Perhaps, you even dare to speculate, now that things are turning your way, you might even get around to leaving a legacy of a different kind as well - you have sacrificed your personal life for career advancement for entirely too long.
Maybe once this project gets off the ground, you'll be able to direct some attention to getting married. Perhaps you'll even have some children. You'd like to have some eventually. Two, perhaps. A boy and a girl.
[] (Write-in how many children you want to eventually have. Zero is an option.)
Well, first things first, you tell yourself.
The different countries have different perks and disadvantages. These are mostly obvious from geography and history, but also involve available hardware. While Germany and Russia have a higher fleet tonnage limit, they also have a larger existing fleet of battleships that a new battleship will need to work with, and a requirement for more globally effective ships that can be operated effectively in more varied environments.
Each background gives an unofficial social network. This gives you three mechanical effects in the professional arena: A bonus recruitment action contingent on the conditions that are rolled (randomly) for actor countries, a bonus on information checks that can use that network, and in some cases complications tied to a specific condition appearing or escalating in your country. Complications prevent you from taking a bonus recruitment action and give you a disadvantage on your next skill check.
Former captain gives you navy-level contacts, which are very useful for knowing how specific types of hardware are working in the field. You recruit in demilitarization conditions, and are complicated by mobilization conditions.
Colonial gives you contacts in your country's colonies. You recruit if there is internal colonial unrest or a war involving your colony of origin. There are no complications, because this background's information check bonus is very limited; this is your "generic" choice.
Bastard gives you high level contacts that affect diplomatic information checks. You recruit when there is a democratic or communist takeover in another country. You have complications if there is a democratic or communist takeover, or attempted takeover, in your country.
Immigrant gives you a bonus on all (diplomatic, operational, and technical )information checks related to your country of origin. You recruit when xenophobia hits that country or that country is invaded, and have complications when xenophobia hits your country of residence. You also have complications if your country of origin and country of residence go to war.
Jew gives you a bonus on some, but not all, information checks related to Germany, Austro-Hungary, and Russia. You recruit when xenophobia hits those countries, and have complications when xenophobia hits your own country. This is similar to immigrant - slightly better recruitment, slightly worse information-gathering.
A write-in background will receive an appropriate QM's-discretion network of contacts, recruitment condition, and complication condition. Backgrounds and environmental conditions also influence the difficulty of certain personal relationship actions, especially courtship/engagement/marriage actions (marriage will require several net successful actions).
The general method of voting is approval vote. You are free to check multiple options.
For quantitative items – numbers – select your preferred option or range of preferred options. If there is a clear winning option, I will select that specific option. In the event that outcomes are tied or tied to within sqrt-n variance (rounded down), I will use an appropriate weighted median.
Schedule of turns:
Short turns take place over a scale of days. Long turns have a duration of 3 or 6 months (usually 6 months outside of conflict events). The game will start with a series of short turns, and after that, short turns will be triggered mostly by complex decision points. (This can be avoided using contingency planning.)
Every long turn, there's a condition roll on each of the major powers. This will have an outcome along one of seven condition tracks.
You have one selected information check per long turn, and one automatic (hard difficulty) information check made against every country every turn. You can choose to seek out information of a particular type or from a particular nation. The more specific the requested check, the easier it will be. For example, "information related to how to manufacture the British 15"/42 naval gun" is more specific than "technical information about British battleships," which is more specific than "What are the Brits up to now?"
Each background gives an unofficial social network. This gives you three mechanical effects in the professional arena: A bonus recruitment action contingent on the conditions that are rolled (randomly) for actor countries, a bonus on information checks that can use that network, and in some cases complications tied to a specific condition appearing or escalating in your country. Complications prevent you from taking a bonus recruitment action and give you a disadvantage on your next skill check.
Former captain gives you navy-level contacts, which are very useful for knowing how specific types of hardware are working in the field. You recruit in demilitarization conditions, and are complicated by mobilization conditions.
Colonial gives you contacts in your country's colonies. You recruit if there is internal colonial unrest or a war involving your colony of origin. There are no complications, because this background's information check bonus is very limited; this is your "generic" choice.
Bastard gives you high level contacts that affect diplomatic information checks. You recruit when there is a democratic or communist takeover in another country. You have complications if there is a democratic or communist takeover, or attempted takeover, in your country.
Immigrant gives you a bonus on all (diplomatic, operational, and technical )information checks related to your country of origin. You recruit when xenophobia hits that country or that country is invaded, and have complications when xenophobia hits your country of residence. You also have complications if your country of origin and country of residence go to war.
Jew gives you a bonus on some, but not all, information checks related to Germany, Austro-Hungary, and Russia. You recruit when xenophobia hits those countries, and have complications when xenophobia hits your own country. This is similar to immigrant - slightly better recruitment, slightly worse information-gathering.
A write-in background will receive an appropriate QM's-discretion network of contacts, recruitment condition, and complication condition. Backgrounds and environmental conditions also influence the difficulty of certain personal relationship actions, especially courtship/engagement/marriage actions (marriage will require several net successful actions).
The general method of voting is approval vote. You are free to check multiple options.
For quantitative items – numbers – select your preferred option or range of preferred options. If there is a clear winning option, I will select that specific option. In the event that outcomes are tied or tied to within sqrt-n variance (rounded down), I will use an appropriate weighted median.
Schedule of turns:
Short turns take place over a scale of days. Long turns have a duration of 3 or 6 months (usually 6 months outside of conflict events). The game will start with a series of short turns, and after that, short turns will be triggered mostly by complex decision points. (This can be avoided using contingency planning.)
Every long turn, there's a condition roll on each of the major powers. This will have an outcome along one of seven condition tracks.
- Conflict Event
- Nationalism—Globalism
- Xenophobia—Tolerance
- Militarism—Pacifism
- Democracy—Monarchy
- Communism—Capitalism
- Technology Event
You have one selected information check per long turn, and one automatic (hard difficulty) information check made against every country every turn. You can choose to seek out information of a particular type or from a particular nation. The more specific the requested check, the easier it will be. For example, "information related to how to manufacture the British 15"/42 naval gun" is more specific than "technical information about British battleships," which is more specific than "What are the Brits up to now?"
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Assorted information
- Location
- Across the universe
Maximillian Hohenwerfen
Bastard Habsburg in service to Franz Ferdinand I, Emperor of Austria and King of Hungary.
Total team bonuses / penalties:
Design (innovation): +3
Design (other): +1
Diagnostic: +0
Diplomatic information: +2
Other information: +1
Management: 0
Added bonuses: +1 on checks tied to Spain or Portugal; +1 on design and diagnosis checks for electrical and acoustic systems.
Complications: Rise in democracy or communism
Recruitment: Rise in democracy or communism in other monarchies
OPFOR BBs
Bastard Habsburg in service to Franz Ferdinand I, Emperor of Austria and King of Hungary.
Total team bonuses / penalties:
Design (innovation): +3
Design (other): +1
Diagnostic: +0
Diplomatic information: +2
Other information: +1
Management: 0
Added bonuses: +1 on checks tied to Spain or Portugal; +1 on design and diagnosis checks for electrical and acoustic systems.
Complications: Rise in democracy or communism
Recruitment: Rise in democracy or communism in other monarchies
Maximillian Hohenwerfen: +2 design, -1 diagnostic, +1 diplomatic information
Marie Koller (+1 management; no longer active on roster)
Heinz Lehner (+1 information)
János Müller (+1 diagnostic)
Bányász Gergely (+1 design)
Severino Luís de Alcântara O'Neill (+1 on checks related to Spain or Portugal)
Nicolau Costa (+1 innovation (electrical, acoustic), +1 diagnostic (electrical, acoustic)
Marie Koller (+1 management; no longer active on roster)
Heinz Lehner (+1 information)
János Müller (+1 diagnostic)
Bányász Gergely (+1 design)
Severino Luís de Alcântara O'Neill (+1 on checks related to Spain or Portugal)
Nicolau Costa (+1 innovation (electrical, acoustic), +1 diagnostic (electrical, acoustic)
Main gun: 2x3+1x4 35 cm/55 in ABX layout
Intended displacement: 35,000 tons standard (just over 40,000 tons normal)
Length: 225m
Maximum beam: 28.5m
Draft: 12.5m (designed maximum)
Machinery: 4 shafts with a 90,000 shp turboelectric drive system. Machinery liberally copied from the American Lexington class.
Secondary guns: 12x2 12cm/50 anti-aircraft guns
Armor: 336 mm main belt (138m) 70mm (ends). Extends 3m above and 2.4m below the waterline. 112mm main deck, 28mm splinter deck.
Intended displacement: 35,000 tons standard (just over 40,000 tons normal)
Length: 225m
Maximum beam: 28.5m
Draft: 12.5m (designed maximum)
Machinery: 4 shafts with a 90,000 shp turboelectric drive system. Machinery liberally copied from the American Lexington class.
Secondary guns: 12x2 12cm/50 anti-aircraft guns
Armor: 336 mm main belt (138m) 70mm (ends). Extends 3m above and 2.4m below the waterline. 112mm main deck, 28mm splinter deck.
Pre-dreadnought battleships:
Dreadnoughts in conversion to aircraft carriers:
- Habsburg class (3 - reclassified as cruisers with replacement of 3x9.4'' guns by 4x21cm guns.)
- Erherzog Karl class (3 - reclassified as cruisers following removal of 9.4'' guns. The twin 9.4'' turrets have been replaced with single 19cm guns for a modest weight reduction, leaving them with a uniform 14x19cm main battery.)
- Tegetthoff class (2)
Dreadnoughts in conversion to aircraft carriers:
- Tegetthoff class (2)
The US has a line of 18 battleships, 11 of them with 14'' guns.
16'' battleships (3): Colorado class
14'' Standard-type battleships (9)
14'' other battleships (2): New York class.
12'' dreadnoughts (4): Wyoming class (2), Florida class (2)
16'' battleships (3): Colorado class
14'' Standard-type battleships (9)
14'' other battleships (2): New York class.
12'' dreadnoughts (4): Wyoming class (2), Florida class (2)
The UK has retained a line of 20 capital ships, 16 of them with 15" guns. Once the Nelson and Rodney are complete, the line will go down to 18 capital ships with the scrapping of the 13.5" ships.
16'' battleships (0): Nelson class (2 under construction - QM's warning, may not be identical to OTL version of Nelson class).
15'' battlecruisers (6): Renown class (2), Admiral class (4 - note, these are not the "fast battleship" version)
15'' battleships (10): Revenge class (5), Queen Elizabeth class (5)
13.5'' battlecruisers (1): HMS Tiger
13.5'' battleships (3): Iron Duke class
16'' battleships (0): Nelson class (2 under construction - QM's warning, may not be identical to OTL version of Nelson class).
15'' battlecruisers (6): Renown class (2), Admiral class (4 - note, these are not the "fast battleship" version)
15'' battleships (10): Revenge class (5), Queen Elizabeth class (5)
13.5'' battlecruisers (1): HMS Tiger
13.5'' battleships (3): Iron Duke class
Japan retains a line of 10 capital ships, 8 of which are armed with 14" guns.
16'' battleships (2): Nagato class
14'' battleships (4): Fuso class (2), Ise class (2)
14'' battlecruisers (4): Kongo class
16'' battleships (2): Nagato class
14'' battleships (4): Fuso class (2), Ise class (2)
14'' battlecruisers (4): Kongo class
16" battleships (0): Prussia class (3 under construction)
15'' battleships (3): Bayern class
14'' battlecruisers (7): Mackensen class
15'' battleships (3): Bayern class
14'' battlecruisers (7): Mackensen class
16" battleships (0): Pyotr Veliky class (3 under construction)
14'' battlecruisers (4): Izmail class
12'' dreadnoughts (8): Imperator Nikolai I, Imperatritsa Mariya class (3), Gangut class (4)
14'' battlecruisers (4): Izmail class
12'' dreadnoughts (8): Imperator Nikolai I, Imperatritsa Mariya class (3), Gangut class (4)
13.4'' battleships (9): Lyon class (4), Normandie class (5)
15'' battleships (4): Francesco Caracciolo class, refitted Andrea Doria class (0 currently, 2 in process of being re-armed and refitted)
12'' dreadnoughts (3): Conte di Cavour class (3)
12'' dreadnoughts (3): Conte di Cavour class (3)
15" battleships (1): Sultan Muhteşem Süleyman I
13.5'' battleships (2): Reşadiye class
12'' battleships (1): Sultan Osman I
11'' battlecruisers (4): Moltke class, Sultan Abdülaziz, Sultan Abdulmecid I
13.5'' battleships (2): Reşadiye class
12'' battleships (1): Sultan Osman I
11'' battlecruisers (4): Moltke class, Sultan Abdülaziz, Sultan Abdulmecid I
14'' battleships (2): Salamis class
13.4'' battleships (5): Bretagne class
12" pre-dreadnoughts (2): Mississippi class
13.4'' battleships (5): Bretagne class
12" pre-dreadnoughts (2): Mississippi class
Brazil operates three battleships:
15'' battleships (1): Riachuelo
12'' battleships (2): Minas Geraes class (2)
Argentina operates three battleships:
12'' battleships (3): Rivadavia class
Chile operates two battleships:
14'' battleships (2): Almirante Latorre class
15'' battleships (1): Riachuelo
12'' battleships (2): Minas Geraes class (2)
Argentina operates three battleships:
12'' battleships (3): Rivadavia class
Chile operates two battleships:
14'' battleships (2): Almirante Latorre class
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BBBence1111
Harbinger of Bad Luck
- Location
- Magyarország
[X] Young, brilliant, and perhaps a bit brash (+2 innovation design checks, -1 diagnostic checks)
[X] Franz Ferdinand I, Emperor of Austria and King of Hungary. (175,000 ton limit.)
[X] Bastard of the royal family.
[X] 2
Reasoning: We need to innovate. New tech will be better than old, and we'll have a small size to work with, so we can't get away with cramming more of the old guns in.
AH because I'm from Hungary, and also because I like a challange.
And last, but not least: Bastard because funding.
[X] Franz Ferdinand I, Emperor of Austria and King of Hungary. (175,000 ton limit.)
[X] Bastard of the royal family.
[X] 2
Reasoning: We need to innovate. New tech will be better than old, and we'll have a small size to work with, so we can't get away with cramming more of the old guns in.
AH because I'm from Hungary, and also because I like a challange.
And last, but not least: Bastard because funding.
Bringing out the big guns
- Location
- Across the universe
Now begins the story of Maximilian Hohenwerfen, who was the single person most clearly responsible for the design of the last battleship built by Austro-Hungary before the unfortunate end to the Great Peace. Maximilian Hohenwerfen - a bastard of the Habsburg family - started work in haste on Monday, December 18th, 1922.
Due to a conjunction of vacations, diplomatic travel, and recent vacancies in the department, your team has five people. The other four? Marie Koller, your secretary; Heinz Lehner, a career bureaucrat; János Müller, a retired naval officer old enough to have earned a second pension due to his length of civil service after his military retirement; and Bányász Gergely, a recently graduated engineer.
Of course, of those four people, there's only one that you see very regularly outside of work. Vienna is a lovely city, and the two of you sometimes take the time to enjoy it. Just last Saturday, you were playing chess outside of a coffeehouse with Marie Koller.
The two hardest things to change about a battleship are its guns and its size. The urgent deadline meant that these decisions need to be made immediately.
The Nelson class, as well as the two successors to the Colorado under construction, are designed to carry 16"/45 guns – that is to say, guns that fired projectiles 16" in diameter (their caliber), with barrels 45 times the caliber. Treaty restrictions ban the use of guns that are officially larger than 16", and the first rate powers have decided to arm their battleships with the absolute maximum caliber armament - although if you have faith in your manufacturers' ability to keep a secret, you might build a "special 16 inch" caliber gun that's larger.
The easiest course of action is clearly to re-use an existing gun in the Austro-Hungarian arsenal – readily available and known to be reliable, sharing logistical supplies and training with the existing fleet. Designing and building an entirely new gun would take significantly longer. Somewhere in between the two options was the option of copying a gun used by another nation – either importing it or reverse-engineering it.
This is a very important decision to make, and it dictates the primary role that the battleship is designed for. As one of the most visible features of a battleship regulated by treaty, it also dictates – for better or worse – how seriously others take the ship as a threat. The newest Japanese, British, and American battleships all carry 16" guns. The Russians, Ottomans, and Greeks – your nation's rivals for control over the Balkans – have not put guns larger than 14" on their battleships, yet. The latest Italian battleships mount 15" guns – the Italians have recently been the allies of Austria-Hungary, although you know that certain members of the royal family are still unhappy about how Italians have become independent from Habsburg rule.
As a bastard Habsburg yourself, you... well, you have your own very specific opinion about whether or not your gun needs to match the Italian battleships... or the first rate powers' battleships.
You want to, in the words of Theodore Rooseveldt, speak softly and carry a big stick with 35cm/55 guns. Keeping the caliber of the gun down to the same 35 cm used on the Ersatz Monarch class won't provoke Austria-Hungary's neighbors into updating their own guns - it's still merely a 14'' gun, after all - while still significantly increasing the power of the weapon. Hopefully.
[] (write-in name)
Due to a conjunction of vacations, diplomatic travel, and recent vacancies in the department, your team has five people. The other four? Marie Koller, your secretary; Heinz Lehner, a career bureaucrat; János Müller, a retired naval officer old enough to have earned a second pension due to his length of civil service after his military retirement; and Bányász Gergely, a recently graduated engineer.
[] (Name for secretary; +1 management)
[] (Name for bureaucrat; +1 information)
[] (Name for really old guy; +1 diagnostic)
[] (Name for engineer; +1 design)
[] (Name for bureaucrat; +1 information)
[] (Name for really old guy; +1 diagnostic)
[] (Name for engineer; +1 design)
Of course, of those four people, there's only one that you see very regularly outside of work. Vienna is a lovely city, and the two of you sometimes take the time to enjoy it. Just last Saturday, you were playing chess outside of a coffeehouse with Marie Koller.
[] Secretary
[] Bureaucrat
[] Really old guy
[] Engineer
[] Bureaucrat
[] Really old guy
[] Engineer
The two hardest things to change about a battleship are its guns and its size. The urgent deadline meant that these decisions need to be made immediately.
The Nelson class, as well as the two successors to the Colorado under construction, are designed to carry 16"/45 guns – that is to say, guns that fired projectiles 16" in diameter (their caliber), with barrels 45 times the caliber. Treaty restrictions ban the use of guns that are officially larger than 16", and the first rate powers have decided to arm their battleships with the absolute maximum caliber armament - although if you have faith in your manufacturers' ability to keep a secret, you might build a "special 16 inch" caliber gun that's larger.
The easiest course of action is clearly to re-use an existing gun in the Austro-Hungarian arsenal – readily available and known to be reliable, sharing logistical supplies and training with the existing fleet. Designing and building an entirely new gun would take significantly longer. Somewhere in between the two options was the option of copying a gun used by another nation – either importing it or reverse-engineering it.
[] Design and build a new gun
-[] (write-in size)
[] Either import or reverse engineer a foreign gun
-[] (write-in which)
[] Use an existing gun already manufactured by Škoda.
-[] 35 cm/45
-[] 30.5 cm/45
-[] (write-in size)
[] Either import or reverse engineer a foreign gun
-[] (write-in which)
[] Use an existing gun already manufactured by Škoda.
-[] 35 cm/45
-[] 30.5 cm/45
This is a very important decision to make, and it dictates the primary role that the battleship is designed for. As one of the most visible features of a battleship regulated by treaty, it also dictates – for better or worse – how seriously others take the ship as a threat. The newest Japanese, British, and American battleships all carry 16" guns. The Russians, Ottomans, and Greeks – your nation's rivals for control over the Balkans – have not put guns larger than 14" on their battleships, yet. The latest Italian battleships mount 15" guns – the Italians have recently been the allies of Austria-Hungary, although you know that certain members of the royal family are still unhappy about how Italians have become independent from Habsburg rule.
As a bastard Habsburg yourself, you... well, you have your own very specific opinion about whether or not your gun needs to match the Italian battleships... or the first rate powers' battleships.
You want to, in the words of Theodore Rooseveldt, speak softly and carry a big stick with 35cm/55 guns. Keeping the caliber of the gun down to the same 35 cm used on the Ersatz Monarch class won't provoke Austria-Hungary's neighbors into updating their own guns - it's still merely a 14'' gun, after all - while still significantly increasing the power of the weapon. Hopefully.
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- Location
- Canada
I'm terrible with names, so I'll let someone else do that.
As for the gun...
[X] Design and build a new gun
-[X] 35cm/55
The higher caliber would improve the performance of the 14" guns over our rivals, while not driving everyone else in the region to start building their own bigger guns.
As for the gun...
[X] Design and build a new gun
-[X] 35cm/55
The higher caliber would improve the performance of the 14" guns over our rivals, while not driving everyone else in the region to start building their own bigger guns.
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- Location
- Across the universe
Just a small informational note - those were 38 cm/52 guns (15").
- Location
- Canada
Wow, talk about a massive derp on my part. Revoved that bit.
BBBence1111
Harbinger of Bad Luck
- Location
- Magyarország
Eh, I'll agree on the gun size. As for the others...
Us:
[X] Maximilian Hohenwerfen
Same order as above:
[X] Marie Koller
[X] Heinz Lehner
[X] János Müller
[X] Bányász Gergely
(Note: as the last name is Hungarian, Bányász is his surname)
[X] Really old guy
[X] Design and build a new gun
-[X] 35cm/55
Us:
[X] Maximilian Hohenwerfen
Same order as above:
[X] Marie Koller
[X] Heinz Lehner
[X] János Müller
[X] Bányász Gergely
(Note: as the last name is Hungarian, Bányász is his surname)
[X] Really old guy
[X] Design and build a new gun
-[X] 35cm/55
- Location
- Brazil
So, why /55?
Well a longer gun will mean higher muzzel velocity which will result in longer ranges and better armour pen (horhorizontally)
- Location
- Brazil
Yes, I was asking if there was a reason for that specific length.
It seems longer than most if not all historical examples. At some point, the propellant will fully burn and you start to lose velocity from attrition with the rifling.
- Location
- Across the universe
The overall muzzle energy of a gun is basically proportionate to its size, as work done on the projectile is equal to the force on the projectile (pressure x area of the base of the projectile) multiplied by the length over which the force is exerted (distance from base of shell to muzzle of gun).
You can choose to get extra velocity. You can also choose to make the shell heavier, or some combination of those two things. For example, these two guns:
The extra power of the 5"/54 gun mostly goes towards firing a heavier shell, in that case.
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- Location
- Brazil
BBBence1111
Harbinger of Bad Luck
- Location
- Magyarország
Hey! What's wrong with the names I picked?
- Location
- Brazil
Nothing in particular, but it's good to have a native(ish) person help in this case.
BBBence1111
Harbinger of Bad Luck
- Location
- Magyarország
We're playing Austria-Hungary. I count as native.
- Location
- Brazil
[X] BBBence1111
Turrets, and a little familiarity
- Location
- Across the universe
Friday, December 22nd, 1922
''Call for you, Max,'' Marie says. If the two of you weren't good friends, you probably would have insisted on ''Sir'' or at least ''Herr Hohenwerfen,'' but you are, so you don't. Although you are only good friends, nothing more. Marie is like a sister to you. You don't think of her that way.
You seat yourself at the mouthpiece and she hands you the earpiece.
''Hello?''
''A new 35 centimeter gun? Those upstart Italians have got 38 centimeter guns. Fifteen inchers, the British call the ones on their ships of the line. If you're going to requisition a whole new gun, couldn't it at least show up the Italians? The Italian delegates were seen to laugh amongst themselves.''
The voice sounds familiar. You choose your language carefully. Hungarian, as Marie is least likely to understand that and you'd like to keep the conversation private.
''Your royal and imperial majesty, it will be a more powerful 35 centimeter gun, every match for the Italians' 38 centimeter gun. The Italians will know that soon enough. Asking that we be granted a special exemption was provocative enough, and it could easily turn into a general exemption for all the signatories. If we put a 38 centimeter gun on our new ships, the Ottomans and the Greeks will feel forced to keep up. The Russians, too. It is like the great American Theodore Roosevelt said - speak softly and carry a big stick. If we speak softly now, we can have the biggest stick to carry until the moratorium expires.''
The person you are speaking to is avidly interested in big game hunting. Perhaps this is why he has that curious admiration for Teddy Roosevelt - a man he met only briefly, at King Edward VII's funeral.
''Hmph. Herr Roosevelt is not president any longer, though. Perhaps for the better for us as it is worse for the Americans. I trust that you know what you are doing, but if you do not, it will be very shameful.''
''The Italians are the only ones who will be shamed by their laughter.''
The phone call ends abruptly. You wait patiently by the phone for several minutes, looking over the line drawing of the idea of the ship. Most modern battleships and battlecruisers carry between six and sixteen guns in their main battery, distributed between somewhere from two to seven turrets.
The Ersatz Monarch class, with a standard displacement pushing 25,000 tons, carries ten 35cm/45 guns. The 20,000 ton Tegetthoff class carries twelve 30.5cm/45 guns. Both have an ABXY turret layout, where the guns are carried in superfiring pairs forward and aft, allowing them a full field of fire.
So how did you decide to lay out your turrets? Differently from the previous Austro-Hungarian battleships, in a ABX layout – two forward, one aft.
With how many guns distributed between those turrets? Nine. It's less than the Ersatz Monarch, but the guns really are more powerful.
You look down at the dimensions of the ship. 225m long, a beam of up to 28m, and a designed
draft of 12.5m. Well, hopefully the diplomats will be able to plausibly sell it as a 35,000 ton ship.
You can compare this to the dimensions of a few other ships and their standard displacements in long tons (the unit used by the treaty):
A longer and narrower ship is more hydrodynamic, allowing it a higher top speed. A wider beam makes for a more stable broadside firing platform. Draft, and to a lesser degree beam, puts limits on ships' ability to pass through straits, shallows, and canals; and limits what ports the ship can put in at.
''Max,'' Marie says, ''It's been half an hour, I think he just hung up on you. János wants to talk to you, he has some opinions to express that he doesn't want to put in writing.''
''Call for you, Max,'' Marie says. If the two of you weren't good friends, you probably would have insisted on ''Sir'' or at least ''Herr Hohenwerfen,'' but you are, so you don't. Although you are only good friends, nothing more. Marie is like a sister to you. You don't think of her that way.
[] Marie is like a sister to you. You don't think of her that way.
[] Miss Koller may use informal address in the office out of an interest in terseness, but in social settings, she is insistently correct and proper in all ways, including but not limited to her language.
[] You've been intimidated by her formidable organizational skills and worried about what it would do to the office environment.
[] You're not sure why, honestly. Marie is attractive and eligible, and you've been something of an idiot not to do anything about it.
[] (write-in)
[] Miss Koller may use informal address in the office out of an interest in terseness, but in social settings, she is insistently correct and proper in all ways, including but not limited to her language.
[] You've been intimidated by her formidable organizational skills and worried about what it would do to the office environment.
[] You're not sure why, honestly. Marie is attractive and eligible, and you've been something of an idiot not to do anything about it.
[] (write-in)
You seat yourself at the mouthpiece and she hands you the earpiece.
''Hello?''
''A new 35 centimeter gun? Those upstart Italians have got 38 centimeter guns. Fifteen inchers, the British call the ones on their ships of the line. If you're going to requisition a whole new gun, couldn't it at least show up the Italians? The Italian delegates were seen to laugh amongst themselves.''
The voice sounds familiar. You choose your language carefully. Hungarian, as Marie is least likely to understand that and you'd like to keep the conversation private.
[] German, of course. That's the language you were addressed in.
[] Hungarian, as Marie is least likely to understand that and you'd like to keep the conversation private.
[] English, the unfortunate language of naval supremacy.
[] (write-in)
[] Hungarian, as Marie is least likely to understand that and you'd like to keep the conversation private.
[] English, the unfortunate language of naval supremacy.
[] (write-in)
''Your royal and imperial majesty, it will be a more powerful 35 centimeter gun, every match for the Italians' 38 centimeter gun. The Italians will know that soon enough. Asking that we be granted a special exemption was provocative enough, and it could easily turn into a general exemption for all the signatories. If we put a 38 centimeter gun on our new ships, the Ottomans and the Greeks will feel forced to keep up. The Russians, too. It is like the great American Theodore Roosevelt said - speak softly and carry a big stick. If we speak softly now, we can have the biggest stick to carry until the moratorium expires.''
The person you are speaking to is avidly interested in big game hunting. Perhaps this is why he has that curious admiration for Teddy Roosevelt - a man he met only briefly, at King Edward VII's funeral.
''Hmph. Herr Roosevelt is not president any longer, though. Perhaps for the better for us as it is worse for the Americans. I trust that you know what you are doing, but if you do not, it will be very shameful.''
''The Italians are the only ones who will be shamed by their laughter.''
[] ''Yes, Uncle Franz. Shameful indeed. Especially if I felt required to very publicly resign in the wake of the criticism. I expect a large Christmas bonus this year.''
[] ''The Italians are the only ones who will be shamed by their laughter.''
[] ''Understood, majesty.''
[] ''Your imperial and royal majesty, my honor hinges upon my success, and with my honor, my very life itself.''
[] (write-in)
[] ''The Italians are the only ones who will be shamed by their laughter.''
[] ''Understood, majesty.''
[] ''Your imperial and royal majesty, my honor hinges upon my success, and with my honor, my very life itself.''
[] (write-in)
The phone call ends abruptly. You wait patiently by the phone for several minutes, looking over the line drawing of the idea of the ship. Most modern battleships and battlecruisers carry between six and sixteen guns in their main battery, distributed between somewhere from two to seven turrets.
The Ersatz Monarch class, with a standard displacement pushing 25,000 tons, carries ten 35cm/45 guns. The 20,000 ton Tegetthoff class carries twelve 30.5cm/45 guns. Both have an ABXY turret layout, where the guns are carried in superfiring pairs forward and aft, allowing them a full field of fire.
So how did you decide to lay out your turrets? Differently from the previous Austro-Hungarian battleships, in a ABX layout – two forward, one aft.
[] The same ABXY turret layout as previous Austro-Hungarian battleships – two forward, two aft.
[] Differently!
-[] ABC turret layout – three forward, each superfiring over the next.
-[] ABX turret layout – two forward, one aft.
-[] AXY turret layout – one forward, two aft.
-[] ABCX turret layout - three forward, one aft.
-[] ABCXY turret layout - three forward, two aft.
-[] ABQXY turret layout - two forward, one mid, two aft.
-[] (write-in turret layout)
[] Differently!
-[] ABC turret layout – three forward, each superfiring over the next.
-[] ABX turret layout – two forward, one aft.
-[] AXY turret layout – one forward, two aft.
-[] ABCX turret layout - three forward, one aft.
-[] ABCXY turret layout - three forward, two aft.
-[] ABQXY turret layout - two forward, one mid, two aft.
-[] (write-in turret layout)
This is a two-stage majority vote. If half or more vote for ABXY, it will be ABXY. Otherwise, it will be different.
With how many guns distributed between those turrets? Nine. It's less than the Ersatz Monarch, but the guns really are more powerful.
[] (write-in number)
You look down at the dimensions of the ship. 225m long, a beam of up to 28m, and a designed
draft of 12.5m. Well, hopefully the diplomats will be able to plausibly sell it as a 35,000 ton ship.
[] (write-in dimensions)
You can compare this to the dimensions of a few other ships and their standard displacements in long tons (the unit used by the treaty):
- Tegetthoff class (20,000) 152.2m x 27.3m with a draft of 8.9m
- Ersatz Monarch class (25,000) 175.2m x 28.5m with a draft of 8.4m
- Francesco Caracciolo class (31,000) 210m x 29.6m with a draft of 9.5m
- Colorado class (32,000) 190m x 29.7m with a draft of 12m.
A longer and narrower ship is more hydrodynamic, allowing it a higher top speed. A wider beam makes for a more stable broadside firing platform. Draft, and to a lesser degree beam, puts limits on ships' ability to pass through straits, shallows, and canals; and limits what ports the ship can put in at.
''Max,'' Marie says, ''It's been half an hour, I think he just hung up on you. János wants to talk to you, he has some opinions to express that he doesn't want to put in writing.''
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- Location
- Brazil
... Isn't what the italians are doing ilegal, then?
- Location
- Across the universe
The Francesco Caracciolo class is well within the treaty limits - the guns are 15" and the "standard" (light load) displacement is 31,000 tons. Currently, we don't know if the Italians are rushing to build one last new battleship class before the five year moratorium kicks in, but the fact that they laughed at ours suggests that if they do, it'll be in response to someone else. (The French, perhaps.)
- Location
- USA
This is the quest I never knew I wanted.
[X] Marie is like a sister to you. You don't think of her that way.
Platonic relationships can be fun too!
[X] Hungarian, as Marie is least likely to understand that and you'd like to keep the conversation private.
*Paranoia at spaghetti spies getting info out of Marie
[X] ''The Italians are the only ones who will be shamed by their laughter.''
We have the magic power of hindsight that can be justified in universe. The Piedmontese will learn to fear the power of the Dual Monarchy one way or the other.
[X] Differently!
-[X] ABX turret layout – two forward, one aft.
As much as I would love a 12 gun broadside of our soon to be 14 inch Skoda guns, I doubt we can fit in the fourth turret without skimping uncomfortably on armor or speed. Besides, the broadside should still be more than adequate against anything the Italians are building.
[X] 9
Austria-Hungary already has a fair bit of experience with triple turrets from the Tegethoffs, double turrets don't have enough barrels, and quadruple turrets are still too problematic at this early stage(don't want to pull a Prince of Wales in an important battle).
[X] 225m x 28m with a draft of 12.5m.
Since we're Austria-Hungary, we can afford not to care about anything outside of the Mediterranean, so no extreme need to watch things like Panamax(I cry if we manage to do that on 35k tons), but the Mediterranean is pretty calm anyways. Assuming we're going for right under the weight cap, we can skim on beam if we need to, but I think a good number to shoot for in length to beam ratio is 7-8.
I'm thinking we should go for 21, 23, or 25 knot speed, with 12-14 inch belt armor, and at least 3 inches of deck armor. Probably should leave some space open for modernizations in the future as well.
@tomwritestuff Sorry, have list of questions.
-Should we assume naval technology has, and will advance roughly as normal?
-If we aren't using an All or Nothing armor scheme, since we have Hapsburg connections, and are young innovative upstarts, can we force that through?
-Are we finally switching over to oil fired machinery?
-Do we have fire control directors?
EDIT:Clearly I wanted 3 single turrets. We are innovators after all.
EDIT 2: Increased length and reduced draft to be able to fit in the Panama canal(though I doubt we will need it).
[X] Marie is like a sister to you. You don't think of her that way.
Platonic relationships can be fun too!
[X] Hungarian, as Marie is least likely to understand that and you'd like to keep the conversation private.
*Paranoia at spaghetti spies getting info out of Marie
[X] ''The Italians are the only ones who will be shamed by their laughter.''
We have the magic power of hindsight that can be justified in universe. The Piedmontese will learn to fear the power of the Dual Monarchy one way or the other.
[X] Differently!
-[X] ABX turret layout – two forward, one aft.
As much as I would love a 12 gun broadside of our soon to be 14 inch Skoda guns, I doubt we can fit in the fourth turret without skimping uncomfortably on armor or speed. Besides, the broadside should still be more than adequate against anything the Italians are building.
[X] 9
Austria-Hungary already has a fair bit of experience with triple turrets from the Tegethoffs, double turrets don't have enough barrels, and quadruple turrets are still too problematic at this early stage(don't want to pull a Prince of Wales in an important battle).
[X] 225m x 28m with a draft of 12.5m.
Since we're Austria-Hungary, we can afford not to care about anything outside of the Mediterranean, so no extreme need to watch things like Panamax(I cry if we manage to do that on 35k tons), but the Mediterranean is pretty calm anyways. Assuming we're going for right under the weight cap, we can skim on beam if we need to, but I think a good number to shoot for in length to beam ratio is 7-8.
I'm thinking we should go for 21, 23, or 25 knot speed, with 12-14 inch belt armor, and at least 3 inches of deck armor. Probably should leave some space open for modernizations in the future as well.
@tomwritestuff Sorry, have list of questions.
-Should we assume naval technology has, and will advance roughly as normal?
-If we aren't using an All or Nothing armor scheme, since we have Hapsburg connections, and are young innovative upstarts, can we force that through?
-Are we finally switching over to oil fired machinery?
-Do we have fire control directors?
EDIT:Clearly I wanted 3 single turrets. We are innovators after all.
EDIT 2: Increased length and reduced draft to be able to fit in the Panama canal(though I doubt we will need it).
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BBBence1111
Harbinger of Bad Luck
- Location
- Magyarország
[X] Sturmi
Seems like a good plan. I'll need to do a bit more research on ships tho. You'd think 2 arms race games leave you with enough knowledge of WW1 level ships....
Seems like a good plan. I'll need to do a bit more research on ships tho. You'd think 2 arms race games leave you with enough knowledge of WW1 level ships....