90 percent sure we have word of QM that new modules auto apply as SHIVs go through refit.
And we have MECs coming in December.
Build A Better Salvager: an XCOM:LW Development Quest
- Thread starter 7734
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And we have MECs coming in December.
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
Word of QM to be exact is as follows
However, it should be noted: SHIVs can only mount a limited number of modules. Variant SHIVs with less module slots (like the currently designed 00A) will have less utility on missions, and have significant issues in developing further upgrades. There is a limited life-span on pattern chassis: be careful to have a plan after it is expended.
Honestly I'd say do 01 SHIV's alongside some Heavy Weapons like Grenade Launchers/HMG's or some other kit that gives our troops a bonus against specific enemies that have been stated to be an issue.
-[] Grenade Launchers: Whatever secret sauce the XCOM grenade suppliers were drinking means you don't have a 40mm grenade launcher to enhance your (combat) Engineers with. Fix that. (TN: 10)
-[] Develop Solo Heavy Weapon: XCOM's stash of light machine guns and general-purpose machine guns is impressive, but you can do better. Build a man-portable heavy weapon that'll knock everyone's socks off (TN: 20, Bonus Political Capital)
Also as QM stated, it'd be better to wholesale dev a new platform and integrate the new upgrades into it from the start vs over time like the 00A would be, the 00A is more a stopgap and more limited, and likely to hard cap us from adding useful things like better weapons, hardware, armor or increase other utilities, meaning it'd become a deadend real quick without 01's to replace the mainline units.
-[] Grenade Launchers: Whatever secret sauce the XCOM grenade suppliers were drinking means you don't have a 40mm grenade launcher to enhance your (combat) Engineers with. Fix that. (TN: 10)
-[] Develop Solo Heavy Weapon: XCOM's stash of light machine guns and general-purpose machine guns is impressive, but you can do better. Build a man-portable heavy weapon that'll knock everyone's socks off (TN: 20, Bonus Political Capital)
Also as QM stated, it'd be better to wholesale dev a new platform and integrate the new upgrades into it from the start vs over time like the 00A would be, the 00A is more a stopgap and more limited, and likely to hard cap us from adding useful things like better weapons, hardware, armor or increase other utilities, meaning it'd become a deadend real quick without 01's to replace the mainline units.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[] Plan Skip Weapon, SHIV 01 Focus
-[] Expand Your Department: You've got people here, hard working people. That said, you need more resources to make everything shine: be that money, MELD, or manpower. (Select a resource, rolling 1d10. On success (TN:6), gain resources. On fail, spend another resource to gain the selected resource. Political Capital is always the first resource spent this way.)
--[] More money
-[] Develop New Module: As much as you wish the SHIV was capable of taking all its cues from software-side systems, a number of physical modifications need to be integrated into the chassis to get expanded capabilities. Time to develop some. (Costs 10 Budget, roll 1d10/turn until TN hit.)
--[] (PROJECT) Corrected Software Module: A general do-all, see-all patch to revise the many, many computer issues you've been having with the Pattern 00 SHIV systems. (TN: 5)
-[] Develop New Module: As much as you wish the SHIV was capable of taking all its cues from software-side systems, a number of physical modifications need to be integrated into the chassis to get expanded capabilities. Time to develop some. (Costs 10 Budget, roll 1d10/turn until TN hit.)
---[] (PROJECT) Improved Armor: A massive applique armor package, this seeks to add ablative water packs and spaced armor to your SHIVs in order to bring the durability under fire up immensely (TN: 10)
-[] Produce a batch of SHIV weapons
--[] Light Minigun
---[] 3. (9 Budget)
-[] Cede Production time (Gains Political Capital)
The idea here is to focus on trying to get the SHIV 01 upgrades finished first. We can work on the Light Autocannon next, but out current SHIVs desperately need a serious overhaul much more than they need a bigger gun. The basic functionality of our SHIVs just isn't there yet. And doing two (PROJECT) actions at the same time is very likely to result in us completing the project much quicker.
-[] Expand Your Department: You've got people here, hard working people. That said, you need more resources to make everything shine: be that money, MELD, or manpower. (Select a resource, rolling 1d10. On success (TN:6), gain resources. On fail, spend another resource to gain the selected resource. Political Capital is always the first resource spent this way.)
--[] More money
-[] Develop New Module: As much as you wish the SHIV was capable of taking all its cues from software-side systems, a number of physical modifications need to be integrated into the chassis to get expanded capabilities. Time to develop some. (Costs 10 Budget, roll 1d10/turn until TN hit.)
--[] (PROJECT) Corrected Software Module: A general do-all, see-all patch to revise the many, many computer issues you've been having with the Pattern 00 SHIV systems. (TN: 5)
-[] Develop New Module: As much as you wish the SHIV was capable of taking all its cues from software-side systems, a number of physical modifications need to be integrated into the chassis to get expanded capabilities. Time to develop some. (Costs 10 Budget, roll 1d10/turn until TN hit.)
---[] (PROJECT) Improved Armor: A massive applique armor package, this seeks to add ablative water packs and spaced armor to your SHIVs in order to bring the durability under fire up immensely (TN: 10)
-[] Produce a batch of SHIV weapons
--[] Light Minigun
---[] 3. (9 Budget)
-[] Cede Production time (Gains Political Capital)
The idea here is to focus on trying to get the SHIV 01 upgrades finished first. We can work on the Light Autocannon next, but out current SHIVs desperately need a serious overhaul much more than they need a bigger gun. The basic functionality of our SHIVs just isn't there yet. And doing two (PROJECT) actions at the same time is very likely to result in us completing the project much quicker.
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- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I figure we should do the full 25 points because excess points won't roll over on the smaller projects.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The problem is, we can only work on it once per turn. On average, a 1d10 rolls 5.5, so on average getting to 25 points would take five turns. And I'd like to try and get it done sooner than that. By working on both project modules this turn, that increases the chance that one of them will complete and we can start doing the first integration action next turn. Leading to a decent chance we can get the entire thing done in three turns.
Personally, I'm not sure just an extra 2 turns on average is going to be worth the 30 budget it will cost on average, if not more, in addition to the delay on working with other modules that could still fit on the 00, like the autocannon or a aiming upgrade. Especially when we know that each model has a limited lifespan and will need to be replaced eventually anyway.
Then there's the roll over problem talked about too. With a TN of 5 on three of the four projects, we would have a 50% chance to roll a 6+ and lose progress we may have otherwise gotten for our 10 budget. If we end up with the 40% chance to roll something under 5, that just increases the chance to exceed the TN on the next roll.
Then there's the roll over problem talked about too. With a TN of 5 on three of the four projects, we would have a 50% chance to roll a 6+ and lose progress we may have otherwise gotten for our 10 budget. If we end up with the 40% chance to roll something under 5, that just increases the chance to exceed the TN on the next roll.
- Pronouns
- He
[X] Plan - Money, AC, Software, Minigun + Ceding.
Legion0047
Retired Shadowrunner.
- Location
- Austria
- Pronouns
- God Emperor
[X] Plan: Ground Up Revamp
Well, (just woke up from a nap), due to the nature of our development being reliant on luck pretty much, I thought at least getting for the low-hanging fruits is a given... and fruits that are becoming an issue fast like the Computer Software. I don't like jinxing us so I wouldn't say anything else on that matter. .-.
But if we can somehow, once again saying it, get more Engineers to increase how much we can do in certain areas, the better. It just that it'll take awhile on the whims of RNG. Getting 01 will be something we do once we do Computer Software and update it to the 00A. Once the MECs are out and about, I think SHIVs will be regulated to fire support or the likes and must do so independently thus the Computer Software fix. .-.
Also, rather curious how much MECs we can actually make since Psi-Ops are a thing in Long War if I recall which will be further down the line. I kinda liked how the MECs here are for those disabled soldiers or the likes (compared to in-game...) or maybe it's just me.
Canon-wise, I don't think 01 is going to be the Alloy SHIVs (...cause, you know, Carapace Armor + Alien Alloys if I recall, and the 01 doesn't use Alien Alloys [..I think. QM might decide our IC Head Developer wants them somehow to better improve the armor]) just yet and that they're just more expensive budget wise (unless otherwise stated) and I'm sure the Float SHIVs are even further (the scouting capabilities are nice!) since our Aerospace Capabilities are not yet unlocked, which I'm assuming means we don't have Fighters or the likes yet to independently (..you know, that always gets me, a single fighter against a UFO/Battleship from the playthroughs I watch though realistically how well will that go I wonder..?) take out flying targets. Which needs Elerium if I recall..?
^note above that I could probably be remembering it wrong or maybe X-Com itself relies on other countries Fighters to down UFOs and the likes judging by certain missions our Strike Teams are handling.
...just want to at least point out that the SHIV 00 will be phased out later once the SHIV 01 comes to play (and the latter once Alloy SHIVs and Float SHIVS are around down the line) and we'll probably end up needing Budget to make the 01 (but we probably better not scrap the 00 in case, of, you know, certain infiltrators down the line when the better variants are out in the field... or I'm just being paranoid and we can actually use the 00 into actual testbeds/experimental beds or the likes or maybe convert them to Engineer SHIVs or something if we can get their AI to be better or something...).
Preferably we should be gunning for them better variants but due to us pretty much going on our own pace till we got stuck with the Computer Software issue some turns ago. It's still 'early-game', (I hope) but with the advent (no pun intended. .-.) of MECs soon, we really need to get the ball going on our action economy with more Engineers helping with that. @_@; We kinda can't independently do stuff to improve yet on our actual Strike Teams' Kit: the Quest name has Salvager in its name, so we're pretty much going to be fixing stuff/issues up whenever they pop up.
...QM, question, but will there be a chance to get another point in Political Action down the line? And can we only Cede Production once or can we do so a certain amount of times equal to the departments X-Com has (I'm not sure how many there are by the way...) as much as how much available points we have? Whilst we're doing it for Political Capital, I'm at least hoping something is actually happening to said departments having the increased Production on the (un)likelihood we don't have anything to produce somewhere down the line?
But if we can somehow, once again saying it, get more Engineers to increase how much we can do in certain areas, the better. It just that it'll take awhile on the whims of RNG. Getting 01 will be something we do once we do Computer Software and update it to the 00A. Once the MECs are out and about, I think SHIVs will be regulated to fire support or the likes and must do so independently thus the Computer Software fix. .-.
Also, rather curious how much MECs we can actually make since Psi-Ops are a thing in Long War if I recall which will be further down the line. I kinda liked how the MECs here are for those disabled soldiers or the likes (compared to in-game...) or maybe it's just me.
Canon-wise, I don't think 01 is going to be the Alloy SHIVs (...cause, you know, Carapace Armor + Alien Alloys if I recall, and the 01 doesn't use Alien Alloys [..I think. QM might decide our IC Head Developer wants them somehow to better improve the armor]) just yet and that they're just more expensive budget wise (unless otherwise stated) and I'm sure the Float SHIVs are even further (the scouting capabilities are nice!) since our Aerospace Capabilities are not yet unlocked, which I'm assuming means we don't have Fighters or the likes yet to independently (..you know, that always gets me, a single fighter against a UFO/Battleship from the playthroughs I watch though realistically how well will that go I wonder..?) take out flying targets. Which needs Elerium if I recall..?
^note above that I could probably be remembering it wrong or maybe X-Com itself relies on other countries Fighters to down UFOs and the likes judging by certain missions our Strike Teams are handling.
...just want to at least point out that the SHIV 00 will be phased out later once the SHIV 01 comes to play (and the latter once Alloy SHIVs and Float SHIVS are around down the line) and we'll probably end up needing Budget to make the 01 (but we probably better not scrap the 00 in case, of, you know, certain infiltrators down the line when the better variants are out in the field... or I'm just being paranoid and we can actually use the 00 into actual testbeds/experimental beds or the likes or maybe convert them to Engineer SHIVs or something if we can get their AI to be better or something...).
Preferably we should be gunning for them better variants but due to us pretty much going on our own pace till we got stuck with the Computer Software issue some turns ago. It's still 'early-game', (I hope) but with the advent (no pun intended. .-.) of MECs soon, we really need to get the ball going on our action economy with more Engineers helping with that. @_@; We kinda can't independently do stuff to improve yet on our actual Strike Teams' Kit: the Quest name has Salvager in its name, so we're pretty much going to be fixing stuff/issues up whenever they pop up.
...QM, question, but will there be a chance to get another point in Political Action down the line? And can we only Cede Production once or can we do so a certain amount of times equal to the departments X-Com has (I'm not sure how many there are by the way...) as much as how much available points we have? Whilst we're doing it for Political Capital, I'm at least hoping something is actually happening to said departments having the increased Production on the (un)likelihood we don't have anything to produce somewhere down the line?
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
01 is not an Alloy SHIV. Alloy SHIVs, when you unlock them, use three digit numerization schemes; so Alloy SHIV the first will be 100, 101, 102, et cettera. Hover SHIVs will be 201, 202, 203, et cettera.
Yes, there's a way to do that. Nobody's even guessed what it is yet, though, and I'm not spoiling it. Hint: in base game, it's effectively a parallel research system.
The proving ground?
[X] Plan - Money, AC, Software, Minigun + Ceding.
Read through this while literally having a Long War let's play on another tab. With that in mind, holotargeters should be high priority. Along with suppression they would make SHIVs useful even with relatively poor weapons and accuracy.
Read through this while literally having a Long War let's play on another tab. With that in mind, holotargeters should be high priority. Along with suppression they would make SHIVs useful even with relatively poor weapons and accuracy.
Wouldn't it be better to take the option that lets work on the new SHIV and the holo targeter at the same time, rather than delaying the targeter until after the upgrade is done?
Not sure whst do you mean? Are you suggesting I should switch vote or something else?
Taking the (PROJECT) tagged development actions individually to complete Project SURETY will be faster on average than taking the whole project as a TN 25 lump sum by 2 turns, but only if we do two development actions on it every chance we can, which prevent us from using any development actions on anything else during that time like aim upgrades unless we can manage to snag an additional development action.
If we want to keep a single development action doing other R&D while we're working on the new SHIV, there's a good argument to be made to taking the 25 TN version because it's just as fast as doing 1 die per turn on the individual projects while not costing us budget.
The thing that ultimately had me choose the updating the 00 instead of going for 01 is that we are still going to be using 00s for awhile,so we need to squeeze as much as possible from them. And as I understand it, going straight for 01s will not upgrade 00s.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I think that we get the upgrades for the 00s either way. Doing the individual (Project) modules gives the 00 upgrades as soon as each module is done, while doing the full 01 project means the upgrades aren't given to the 00s until we finish the full project. But we don't waste any extra progress if we do the full project.
No, what I think they're talking about is how we can refurbish wrecks of 00 series SHIVs into 00Bs, 00Cs, 00Ds etc, but we can't refurbish 00s into 01s. In exchange though, 01s are supposed to have some soft benefits over upgraded 00s, and should have a longer service lifetime before needing to be phased out for the next series since it's a new design rather than an upgrade package for an older design.
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Personally I would kind of like to see the patterns in more detail. As in how many of these module slots the current 000 pattern has compared to the 001 pattern in development.