Fate grand order is a gatcha game first and a story second from what I know, so I indeed do think that it's very much not the correct place to make any stories. Not helped by the fact that most others narratives are finished when FGO still isn't, meaning you don't have all the cards to construct yours
But I meant by going for FGO is if you want to know a specific servant Or get the general gist of a servant, you go to there for the basic stuff then branch off to other places, FSN or the case files or some stanger parts of the setting
Basically, if you want a basic foundation about a certain servant story and personality you go to there because it has the most servants around in there.
a start off point, so to speak.
also if you want to know about the grail war, Fate stay night is always there.
But I meant by going for FGO is if you want to know a specific servant Or get the general gist of a servant, you go to there for the basic stuff then branch off to other places, FSN or the case files or some stanger parts of the setting
Basically, if you want a basic foundation about a certain servant story and personality you go to there because it has the most servants around in there.
a start off point, so to speak.
also if you want to know about the grail war, Fate stay night is always there.
I think we are agreeing there, FGO has foundations for servants, but the story is not as important to it, the other settings can help to build on these foundations and have an actual story that goes with it.
And fate/stay does give quite a lot of informations about grail wars, even if some people seems to have taken a little too many of Rin *don't actually know anything* Tosaka's claims at face value, giving rise to part of the fanon on the series.
Her claim that *no modern humans can rise to be a heroic spirit* comes to mind in particular, particularly because the fact that Archer is right there to prove her wrong make it stand out.
Other common fanon that I can point out quickly are:
-Shirou is not amnesiac, he's just traumatized and don't like reminiscing on his life from before the fire.
-Reality marbles have nothing to do with *alien thinking*, and Shirou deosn't have *alien thinking* either. Shirou's just insane (a combination of hero syndrome, survivor guilt, and ptsd), and it is not in any way the reason for his reality marble.
-By the way, reality marbles are rare, yes, but not *once in multiple generations* rare, there are others just in Shirou's generation for example (a girl from tsukihime has one).
Well could someone give me a run down on the Nasuverse? I'm really not familiar with it. Besides that it'll definitely be interesting to see a PM quest starring Tiphy, even if it is also kind of X.
There is a lot going on in the Nasuverse. And I do mean A LOT. I'll try to do so anyway.
While there are a lot written by Kinoko Nasu, the initial author of the various series of nasuverse, there are usually only 3 main ones that people refer to, the rest being sequels, supplements, spin-offs or is otherwise closely related to one of the main series:
Fate Series
Tsukihime
Kara no Kyoukai
There will be a huge focus of the Fate Series here, since I think that is the big one that spans hundreds, if not thousands of characters currently (don't worry, you don't need to know of them), and is most likely the setting that will take place for this quest (though QM might have other plans in mind). Note that all of the series occur canonically in the same universe(albeit some sequels/spinoffs happens in varying timelines), so we will probably see characters from all of the series.
Ok, if you want the WHOLE fate series explained in a single video sitting (albeit missing a lot of context and details), just watch this video. He will explain in an entertaining way better than I can ever try to accomplish.
If there is one thing you should get out of the video, it is this:
What? That isn't enough? You want more info to work with? You are allergic to videos more than 30 mins long?
Oh...
I guess I can go into some details about the general parts of the holy grail war(s). Just keep in mind that this info may become pointless depending on how the QM decides to write the story, but it does serve as a good general reference for what to expect from the world nonetheless.
These are also just top-level information/terminology that most servants/magi participating in the war would have, and will probably be repeated at some point during the quest if/when it starts. But here goes.
Basically, the holy grail war is a 7-way battle royale between 7 pairs of masters and servants.
Masters are usually magi, or mages, that performed a ritual to summon a servant for the war. Summoning one will act as the proof of participation in the upcoming war. Keep in mind that the Magi are bound to secrecy about the magic, and usually live among non-magis while practicing the craft.
Servants are usually embodiment of heroic spirits. But the definition of heroic spirits greatly varies (even tyrants and downright evil beings can become one). In general, what makes a heroic spirit one is, firstly, for them to be etched into humanity's history, usually in the form of a story of their great deed(s), and secondly, being an object of worship in some form or another, or otherwise remembered by multiple people. The greater their deed, and the more people remembering them, the stronger they tend to be. There are also some historical figures who apparently are not a heroic spirit despite meeting these criteria? Anyway, Don't worry about it.
Magi are usually much weaker than the servants are, but the servants are also limited by how much magical energy the Magi can provide them. If the servant is not provided with enough magical energy, they will lose strength and be unable to perform powerful skills. If they run out of energy, they will no longer be able to materialize in the world. There are various ways to offset or even supplement this energy though, some works better than others. A Servant that lost their master will be unable to last long in the world, and must find an alternative source of energy or make do with what they have left.
Of course, some servants gonna be unruly, and unwilling to work with a magus. To counteract that, masters are given 3 command spells to use that are carved into their skins when the summoning ritual is completed. Each command spell are used by ordering a servant and channeling the command spell, with various possible effects: Forcing a servant to do something against their will, amplifying their strength and power, or making them perform 'impossible' tasks such as teleportation. Note that specific and short-term commands tends to be much stronger than broad and long lasting commands. Servants may be able to resist against weak commands, but are generally helpless to hold out from performing a strong one.
The goal for each pair is win the holy grail war and obtain the holy grail. Once 6 of the heroic spirits are defeated or vanquished, the holy grail will appear for the final pair of Master & Servant, and each of them shall use it to grant a wish of theirs.
Each servant is summoned under a separate class, each with certain traits and skills. The classes are:
Saber
Lancer
Archer
Rider
Caster
Assassin
Berserker
<... And others>
A huge aspect of the holy grail war is the information warfare. For example, each magus would usually carry on their living their lives, while hiding their command spells, looking out for signs of other masters/servants or even secretly setting up a battlefield with advantage. Masters also usually call their servant by their class name and not their true name to avoid leaking their identity.
Servants will try to detect other servants, and even if they face off with them, they will try hard not to reveal their Noble Phantasms, the representation of their feats that basically screams out their identities, while trying to get the other side to reveal theirs. They will usually only start using it to seize a huge advantage or as a finishing move. These Noble Phantasms can take the form of weapons, armies, items, abilities, skills, curses or reality-wrapping fields. Basically, they are a pretty big deal.
Oh, and in case X is summoned as a heroic spirit, and you think that their unknown history/different look will make it impossible for other servants to figure them out, I wouldn't count on it. First off, the actual appearance of the manifestation of the heroic spirit tends to... differ greatly from the historical records. So while using the appearance of Tiphereth will throw them off for a bit, the servants don't usually use that to distinguish other servants anyway. Secondly, if X is summoned through the holy grail for the war, then he's very likely also part of the Akashic Records, which all of the other servants are also part of. Basically, all of the servants will likely find a way to recognize X once they see X's Noble Phantasm.
I think that is enough to go with for now, and that was just the surface level stuff. I probably got something wrong/didn't go into enough detail depending on which holy grail war you talk about, or what stage of it it is at (not to mention outside interference as well as some details I'm specifically omitting).
As for FGO... that is a whole can of worms I'm not willing to untangle today. In any case, Don't worry about it.
For Tsukihime, the story revolves around the mystery of main character's family and his past, as well as the creatures of the night (namely, vampires). Very cool main character though, he has the ability to see lines and points of death for people and objects, and by tracing them with a sharp object, he can essentially kill them, even if they are inanimate objects. More accurately, he 'kills' the meaning/existence of that which was traced. That works on humans, vampires (though not overwhelming strong ones), walls, and even stuff like air. The other characters are really interesting too, especially the vampires, but I think I will go into more detail when they do appear.
For Kara no Kyoukai, it is more like the prototype of Fate and Tsukihime, and the characters in it has huge parallels with the main characters of Tsukihime. The story follows the exploration of the characters' motives and values, while revealing more information about the setting of nasuverse. Honestly, the movies are great, if confusing and kinda dense. But you don't need to know more than that right now.
Anyway, X will likely be clueless too, and the other nasuverse experts will be more than happy to fill in the info gaps when it happens. So just sit back and enjoy the absolute mayhem that is about to unfold.
People always seems to forget that character have personal bias and unreliable narrator is a thing.
Which is very important when a story starts off with a characters viewpoint, because anything that this character says will be affected by their viewpoint.
Anyway, limbus is almost out, last few hours guys!
Not true, Tsukihime happens in a world incompatible with servants (you either have Arcueid and the ancestors still there or you have the servants, not both), and with this the very premise of Fate, and Kara no kyoukai is in a different timeline than tsukihime for sure because there cannot be multiple people with the Eyes of death perception at the same time in one timeline.
More accurately, he 'kills' the meaning/existence of that which was traced. That works on humans, vampires (though not overwhelming strong ones), walls, and even stuff like air.
No, he just kills the thing, the Shiki from Tsukihime is far inferior to the (unrelated) Shiki from Kara no kyoukai, she can kill concepts, he would struggle with that. Then again, one of her personalities is god, so…..
And he did kill Arcueid at the beginning of the series, it's just that she has way to make even death not stick, his lines absolutely did work.
To note: I think you can infer one the ways to transfer mana to others if I tell you the original Fate/Stay visual novel is an eroge.
By the way, there are three routes and three main girls, you can guess part of the rest from there (though one of the routes ends with a polycule with two of the girls instead of a couple.)
... Wait a second.
Please tell me some of you are thinking what I'm thinking right now.
if The light is a version the Akashic record...
which means...The one who controls the light...controls a version of the Akashic record...
oh fuck...
oh fuck.
Ok, if you want the WHOLE fate series explained in a single video sitting (albeit missing a lot of context and details), just watch this video. He will explain in an entertaining way better than I can ever try to accomplish.
If there is one thing you should get out of the video, it is this:
What? That isn't enough? You want more info to work with? You are allergic to videos more than 30 mins long?
Oh...
I guess I can go into some details about the general parts of the holy grail war(s). Just keep in mind that this info may become pointless depending on how the QM decides to write the story, but it does serve as a good general reference for what to expect from the world nonetheless.
These are also just top-level information/terminology that most servants/magi participating in the war would have, and will probably be repeated at some point during the quest if/when it starts. But here goes.
Basically, the holy grail war is a 7-way battle royale between 7 pairs of masters and servants.
Masters are usually magi, or mages, that performed a ritual to summon a servant for the war. Summoning one will act as the proof of participation in the upcoming war. Keep in mind that the Magi are bound to secrecy about the magic, and usually live among non-magis while practicing the craft.
Servants are usually embodiment of heroic spirits. But the definition of heroic spirits greatly varies (even tyrants and downright evil beings can become one). In general, what makes a heroic spirit one is, firstly, for them to be etched into humanity's history, usually in the form of a story of their great deed(s), and secondly, being an object of worship in some form or another, or otherwise remembered by multiple people. The greater their deed, and the more people remembering them, the stronger they tend to be.
Magi are usually much weaker than the servants are, but the servants are also limited by how much magical energy the Magi can provide them. If the servant is not provided with enough magical energy, they will lose strength and be unable to perform powerful skills. If they run out of energy, they will no longer be able to materialize in the world. There are various ways to offset or even supplement this energy though, some works better than others. A Servant that lost their master will be unable to last long in the world, and must find an alternative source of energy or make do with what they have left.
Of course, some servants gonna be unruly, and unwilling to work with a magus. To counteract that, masters are given 3 command spells to use that are carved into their skins when the summoning ritual is completed. Each command spell are used by ordering a servant and channeling the command spell, with various possible effects: Forcing a servant to do something against their will, amplifying their strength and power, or making them perform 'impossible' tasks such as teleportation. Note that specific and short-term commands tends to be much stronger than broad and long lasting commands. Servants may be able to resist against weak commands, but are generally helpless to hold out from performing a strong one.
The goal for each pair is win the holy grail war and obtain the holy grail. Once 6 of the heroic spirits are defeated or vanquished, the holy grail will appear for the final pair of Master & Servant, and each of them shall use it to grant a wish of theirs.
Each servant is summoned under a separate class, each with certain traits and skills. The classes are:
Saber
Lancer
Archer
Rider
Caster
Assassin
Berserker
<... And others>
A huge aspect of the holy grail war is the information warfare. For example, each magus would usually carry on their living their lives, while hiding their command spells, looking out for signs of other masters/servants or even secretly setting up a battlefield with advantage. Masters also usually call their servant by their class name and not their true name to avoid leaking their identity.
Servants will try to detect other servants, and even if they face off with them, they will try hard not to reveal their Noble Phantasms, the representation of their feats that basically screams out their identities, while trying to get the other side to reveal theirs. They will usually only start using it to seize a huge advantage or as a finishing move. These Noble Phantasms can take the form of weapons, armies, items, abilities, skills, curses or reality-wrapping fields. Basically, they are a pretty big deal.
Oh, and in case X is summoned as a heroic spirit, and you think that their unknown history/different look will make it impossible for other servants to figure them out, I wouldn't count on it. First off, the actual appearance of the manifestation of the heroic spirit tend to... differ greatly from the historical records. So while using the appearance of Tiphereth will throw them off for a bit, the servants don't usually use that to distinguish other servants anyway. Secondly, if X is summoned through the holy grail for the war, then he's very likely also part of the Akashic Records, which all of the other servants are also part of. Basically, all of the servants will likely find a way to recognize X once they see X's Noble Phantasm.
I think that is enough to go with for now, and that was just the surface level stuff. I probably got something wrong/didn't go into enough detail depending on which holy grail war you talk about, or what stage of it it is at (not to mention outside interference as well as some details I'm specifically omitting).
As for FGO... that is a whole can of worms I'm not willing to untangle today. In any case, Don't worry about it.
Anyway, X will likely be clueless too, and the other nasuverse experts will be more than happy to fill in the info gaps when it happens. So just sit back and enjoy the absolute mayhem that is about to unfold.
There is an entire bucket of asterisks that I can add on to most of these, but in general its basically correct. I will point out that the thing that stores the Heroic Spirits is called the Throne of Heroes rather than the Akashic Records though. The latter is an entirely seperate thing.
Not true, Tsukihime happens in a world incompatible with servants (you either have Arcueid and the ancestors still there or you have the servants, not both), and with this the very premise of Fate, and Kara no kyoukai is in a different timeline than tsukihime for sure because there cannot be multiple people with the Eyes of death perception at the same time in one timeline.
Yes and no. FGO and Fate/Strange Fake (written by the same person who wrote Durarara) apparently takes place in timelines that hit a sweet spot between the two and let both Dead Apostle Ancestor (essentially, very powerful vampires) and Servant Summoning to take place in the same world.
Fun fact, Dead Apostles have some weird ability that lets them 'deny human history' and make them immune to things made by humans (except for things like certain magic and some weapons blessed by gods like the stuff the Church uses). Heroic Spirits have an opposite ability to 'confirm human history' that basically lets them pierce through that.
Not true, Tsukihime happens in a world incompatible with servants (you either have Arcueid and the ancestors still there or you have the servants, not both), and with this the very premise of Fate, and Kara no kyoukai is in a different timeline than tsukihime for sure because there cannot be multiple people with the Eyes of death perception at the same time in one timeline.
Yes, Fate, Kara no Kyoukai and Tsukihime play in entirely different timelines where only THEY can happen.
The events of Fate can't happen in a Tsukihime or Kara no Kyoukai timeline, and vice versa.
It's because of the nature of Dead Apostle Ancestors (Super Vampires) and Servants, where Servants can only be summoned in a world where the Human Order is prevelant (Fate), while Dead Apostle 'Ancestors' can only manifest in a world where the Earths Will supersedes humanities (KnK and Tsukihime).
Exceptions like Fate/Strange Fake exist, but they are just that, exceptions.
Technically, Tsukihime can happen at the same time as KnK, simply because Shiki Tohno's MEoDP aren't the 'genuine article', like Shiki Ryougi's. (Because only one pair of MEoDP can exist within a timeline.)
Not true, Tsukihime happens in a world incompatible with servants (you either have Arcueid and the ancestors still there or you have the servants, not both), and with this the very premise of Fate, and Kara no kyoukai is in a different timeline than tsukihime for sure because there cannot be multiple people with the Eyes of death perception at the same time in one timeline.
No, he just kills the thing, the Shiki from Tsukihime is far inferior to the (unrelated) Shiki from Kara no kyoukai, she can kill concepts, he would struggle with that. Then again, one of her personalities is god, so…..
And he did kill Arcueid at the beginning of the series, it's just that she has way to make even death not stick, his lines absolutely did work.
My understanding is that T.Shiki kills meanings/existences, the side-effect of that being that the thing he cuts usually 'dies'. KnK.Shiki has a higher level of the mystic eyes of death perception, allowing her to do the same, but also mess with cause and effects through the root.
He did kill Arcueid, but that wasn't fully powered Arcueid. When she was all-powerful, she had no line or point of death to cut.
My understanding is that T.Shiki kills meanings/existences, the side-effect of that being that the thing he cuts usually 'dies'. KnK.Shiki has a higher level of the mystic eyes of death perception, allowing her to do the same, but also mess with cause and effects through the root.
He did kill Arcueid, but that wasn't fully powered Arcueid. When she was all-powerful, she had no line or point of death to cut.
Effectively, there is no difference between Tohno's and Ryougi's MEoDP. Both have the exact same, theoretical, capabilities.
But there ARE differences, one of them being WHO they are, and HOW they got them.
Ryougi is directly connected to the Root, and manifested the eyes via the death of her alter ego (Not to be confused with an Alter Ego) and got them handed to her by Void Shiki, aka God.
Tohno died for a bit and in death perceived the cycle of reincarnation, before he got brought back by his adoptive sister. The reason why the eyes manifested for him is because he already had special eyes, Pure Eyes which could discern the truth, and by gazing at death with them they mutated to see 'death'.
The difference between them is that Tohno is doing something he shouldn't, and is dying from it. While Ryougi is literally hax.
apparently takes place in timelines that hit a sweet spot between the two and let both Dead Apostle Ancestor (essentially, very powerful vampires) and Servant Summoning to take place in the same world.
There is never any implication of this I can remember, he kills things, he never touches concepts, and the lines of death works by killing what is cut, it's just that T.Shiki cannot see concepts, while knk.Shiki can.
If you placed T.Shiki in the same situation as the one where knk.Shiki killed a future because *by making it a certainty the one who saw it gave it a form*, he would die like a bitch because he cannot see said future while she can. And that's one of the biggest differences between them.
If you placed T.Shiki in the same situation as the one where knk.Shiki killed a future because *by making it a certainty the one who saw it gave it a form*, he would die like a bitch because he cannot see said future while she can.
There is never any implication of this I can remember, he kills things, he never touches concepts, and the lines of death works by killing what is cut, it's just that T.Shiki cannot see concepts, while knk.Shiki can.
If you placed T.Shiki in the same situation as the one where knk.Shiki killed a future because *by making it a certainty the one who saw it gave it a form*, he would die like a bitch because he cannot see said future while she can. And that's one of the biggest differences between them.
He's still a protagonist, y'know? So if it is suitably dramatic, he probably could. Like with Roa, where he conceptually murdered his whole reincarnation bullshit.
Hmm... I was about to tell you not to worry, but then I remembered that Carmen is now some kind of manager that works in the world. Promotes humanity and all that on the path of selfishness and personal happiness... And then I remembered that our character now in the disguise of Sephira gives her access to a new department. (imagine Carmen sitting in a gaming chair, staring at a monitor, looking at the neural system for choosing which department to open next. Time in the world is meaningless, so just changing the time flow coefficient in relation to this world so that she can work individually with needs everyone.) And you know... I'm starting to understand your concerns.
For those of you who have no idea wtf we are talking about the past hour, Don't worry about it. We will fill you it whenever something relevant happens.
I understanded most of it, but I chose to not worry about it because worrying about it means I need to spend four hours of my sleeping time.
Anyway, If we go with the light is some kind of artificial man made Akashic record... Then there is some complication, Mainly about Carmen and Ayin
Or something like that, Ayin (and by extension X) is, after all, a genius. Despite his awful decision making. But everyone makes dumb choices in the City, so eh.
Wisdom is the City's dumb stat, until Ayin realized it wasn't.
Well, if X gets summoned, there will be no issues in surviving, at least at the start.
But if X just gets plopped into the world... Since X took the form of Tiphereth, and her thing is the "Expectation of the Meaning of Expectation" (I still think she got cheated in terms of the name of her symbolism compared to the other Sephirahs), maybe it will go more towards trying to trust people and accepting their help (This may sound like a bad idea in the holy grail war, but the general populace of nasuverse and even 'most' magi are actually pretty nice, and probably would help a young girl out).
