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Attempting to Survive the Apocalypse: Dimensional Dislocation

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aceraptor said:
South America is in USA's sphere more or less but their big hitter, Brazil, is going to be among the first nation to die to collapse fluid spread.
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*mubles about peru,chile,and colombian economies*

Here is a gdp table with net gdp and gdp per capita comparizon

Brazil is a big hit but given enough support from the US the other members of the top 5 can still pull off their weigth

1​
Brazil​
1,363,7677,010
2​
Mexico​
1,040,3729,250
3​
382,7609,120
4​
264,9335,750
5​
Chile​
245,41415,620
6​
Peru​
195,7616,680
 
armentho said:
*mubles about peru,chile,and colombian economies*

Here is a gdp table with net gdp and gdp per capita comparizon

Brazil is a big hit but given enough support from the US the other members of the top 5 can still pull off their weigth

1​
Brazil​
1,363,7677,010
2​
Mexico​
1,040,3729,250
3​
382,7609,120
4​
264,9335,750
5​
Chile​
245,41415,620
6​
Peru​
195,7616,680
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That's fair, but the question is whether the US can not implode long enough to support those nations since one of the big malus for US start was potential civil war.

So people, any more votes?
 
Adhoc vote count started by BlessedYetDamned on Oct 2, 2021 at 2:40 PM, finished with 49 posts and 5 votes.
  • [X] Plan Net Neutral, Safety and Data
    -[X] Public
    --[X] Public Data Sharing (+1 Public Leverage)
    --[X] IDC Visor Licence (+2 Public Leverage +1 Private Leverage +25 Resources)
    --[X] IDDS Technology Sales (+2 Public Leverage +1 Private Leverage +25 Resources)
    --[X] Open Diplomatic Channels (+1 Public Leverage +1 Private Leverage -5 Political Support +5 Public Confidence)
    --[X] ALR-50 Sales (+3 Public Leverage +2 Private Leverage +50 Resources -10 Political Support -10 Public Support) (Substantial Increase in Russian Preparation)
    --[X] Extensive ELID Records (-2 Public Leverage +5 Political Support)
    --[X] Extensive IDC Records (-2 Public Leverage +5 Political Support)
    --[X] IDC Border Treaties (-1 Public Leverage)
    --[X] CFR Shelter Experience (-4 Public Leverage -2 Private Leverage +8 Incremental Increase per Quarter -5 Public Confidence)
    --[X] CFR Data Sharing (-1 Public Leverage)
    -[X] Private
    --[X] Operational Data Sharing (+1 Private Leverage)
    --[X] The American Question (+1 Private Leverage 1 Public Leverage)
    --[X] Regional Responsibility (-1 Private Leverage)
    --[X] Final Stage ELID (-2 Private Leverage)
    [X] Plan Clandestine Cooperation & More Tracking
    -[X] Public
    --[X] Public Data Sharing (+1 Public Leverage)
    --[X] IDC Visor Licence (+2 Public Leverage +1 Private Leverage +25 Resources)
    --[X] IDDS Technology Sales (+2 Public Leverage +1 Private Leverage +25 Resources)
    --[X] ALR-50 Sales (+3 Public Leverage +2 Private Leverage +50 Resources -10 Political Support -10 Public Confidence) (Substantial Increase in Russian Preparation)
    --[X] Open Diplomatic Channels (+1 Public Leverage +1 Private Leverage -5 Political Support +5 Public Confidence)
    --[X] Extensive ELID Records (-2 Public Leverage +5 Political Support)
    --[X] Extensive IDC Records (-2 Public Leverage +5 Political Support)
    --[X] CFR Data Sharing (-1 Public Leverage)
    --[X] IDC Tracking Methods (-1 Public Leverage -25 Resources +5 Political Support)
    --[X] CFR Shelter Experience (-4 Public Leverage -2 Private Leverage +8 Incremental Increase per Quarter -5 Public Confidence)
    -[X] Private
    --[X] Operational Data Sharing (+1 Private Leverage)
    --[X] The American Question (+1 Private Leverage 1 Public Leverage)
    --[X] Regional Responsibility (-1 Private Leverage)
    --[X] Unit Exchange (-1 Private Leverage)
    --[X] Final Stage ELID (-2 Private Leverage)
Click to expand...


Not sure if I'm doing this right. I'm pretty sure there are other votes...
 
*shrugs* Sometimes the tally glitches. Sometimes it doesn't. It's called the weather.

If worst comes to worst, I think that there's few enough of us that perhaps someone could count the votes manually.
 
armentho said:
*mubles about peru,chile,and colombian economies*

Here is a gdp table with net gdp and gdp per capita comparizon

Brazil is a big hit but given enough support from the US the other members of the top 5 can still pull off their weigth

1​
Brazil​
1,363,7677,010
2​
Mexico​
1,040,3729,250
3​
382,7609,120
4​
264,9335,750
5​
Chile​
245,41415,620
6​
Peru​
195,7616,680
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Remember, in this setting the underlying problem is Collapse Fluid expanding in a gigantic wave that's overtaking the world. If Collapse Fluid begins to overtake Brazil, then the rest of South America will be overtaken within a matter of months or a year at most. At which point it really won't matter whether or not those countries could function with or without help from the United States.

Since the US surely cannot save more than a tiny sliver of its own population from the incoming Collapse Fluid threat, it will not be doing very much to supply anyone outside the United States with the means to do so.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Remember, in this setting the underlying problem is Collapse Fluid expanding in a gigantic wave that's overtaking the world. If Collapse Fluid begins to overtake Brazil, then the rest of South America will be overtaken within a matter of months or a year at most. At which point it really won't matter whether or not those countries could function with or without help from the United States.

Since the US surely cannot save more than a tiny sliver of its own population from the incoming Collapse Fluid threat, it will not be doing very much to supply anyone outside the United States with the means to do so.
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I'm thinking at best the USA will be willing to give the various other countries designs for CFR proof shelters and other such things that said nations can try to build themselves, but yeah, all US efforts will likely be poured into US assets. *Maybe* Canada as well if Canada pitches in assets and resources in exchange for a number of guaranteed shelters and stuff like that.

But from the scale and speed of the disaster? Its very much a every man for themselves situation.
 
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aceraptor said:
I'm thinking at best the USA will be willing to give the various other countries designs for CFR proof shelters and other such things that said nations can try to build themselves, but yeah, all US efforts will likely be poured into US assets. *Maybe* Canada as well if Canada pitches in assets and resources in exchange for a number of guaranteed shelters and stuff like that.

But from the scale and speed of the disaster? Its very much a every man for themselves situation.
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I generally agree with the pattern you describe here. The key point is that it's not really... relevant... what a lot of places can and cannot do in a conventional-power-conflict sense, because what really matters is how many thousands of their own populations will they be able to save in the time available. Almost nobody's gonna be in any kind of shape to project power over continental distances for a long time after Collapse Radiation overtakes the world.

Optimistically, the Foundation in the EU may be in far better shape than most because of Persica's robotics. Anyone without something like that is going to be really in the soup.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Rukia on Oct 4, 2021 at 2:11 AM, finished with 54 posts and 5 votes.
  • [X] Plan Net Neutral, Safety and Data
    -[X] Public
    --[X] Public Data Sharing (+1 Public Leverage)
    --[X] IDC Visor Licence (+2 Public Leverage +1 Private Leverage +25 Resources)
    --[X] IDDS Technology Sales (+2 Public Leverage +1 Private Leverage +25 Resources)
    --[X] Open Diplomatic Channels (+1 Public Leverage +1 Private Leverage -5 Political Support +5 Public Confidence)
    --[X] ALR-50 Sales (+3 Public Leverage +2 Private Leverage +50 Resources -10 Political Support -10 Public Support) (Substantial Increase in Russian Preparation)
    --[X] Extensive ELID Records (-2 Public Leverage +5 Political Support)
    --[X] Extensive IDC Records (-2 Public Leverage +5 Political Support)
    --[X] IDC Border Treaties (-1 Public Leverage)
    --[X] CFR Shelter Experience (-4 Public Leverage -2 Private Leverage +8 Incremental Increase per Quarter -5 Public Confidence)
    --[X] CFR Data Sharing (-1 Public Leverage)
    -[X] Private
    --[X] Operational Data Sharing (+1 Private Leverage)
    --[X] The American Question (+1 Private Leverage 1 Public Leverage)
    --[X] Regional Responsibility (-1 Private Leverage)
    --[X] Final Stage ELID (-2 Private Leverage)
    [X] Plan Clandestine Cooperation & More Tracking
    -[X] Public
    --[X] Public Data Sharing (+1 Public Leverage)
    --[X] IDC Visor Licence (+2 Public Leverage +1 Private Leverage +25 Resources)
    --[X] IDDS Technology Sales (+2 Public Leverage +1 Private Leverage +25 Resources)
    --[X] ALR-50 Sales (+3 Public Leverage +2 Private Leverage +50 Resources -10 Political Support -10 Public Confidence) (Substantial Increase in Russian Preparation)
    --[X] Open Diplomatic Channels (+1 Public Leverage +1 Private Leverage -5 Political Support +5 Public Confidence)
    --[X] Extensive ELID Records (-2 Public Leverage +5 Political Support)
    --[X] Extensive IDC Records (-2 Public Leverage +5 Political Support)
    --[X] CFR Data Sharing (-1 Public Leverage)
    --[X] IDC Tracking Methods (-1 Public Leverage -25 Resources +5 Political Support)
    --[X] CFR Shelter Experience (-4 Public Leverage -2 Private Leverage +8 Incremental Increase per Quarter -5 Public Confidence)
    -[X] Private
    --[X] Operational Data Sharing (+1 Private Leverage)
    --[X] The American Question (+1 Private Leverage 1 Public Leverage)
    --[X] Regional Responsibility (-1 Private Leverage)
    --[X] Unit Exchange (-1 Private Leverage)
    --[X] Final Stage ELID (-2 Private Leverage)
Click to expand...

Vote Closed.
Rukia threw 8 100-faced dice. Total: 348
77 77 87 87 8 8 34 34 60 60 11 11 24 24 47 47
 
LostDeviljho said:
If I remember correctly what these correspond to, the 8 is actually hilarious because it's the only one where a low result is better.
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Is it too much to hope that they are two dice pairs with military snooping vs us keeping it a secret? Because it would be pretty bad for our Russian counterpart if their superiors find out he handed us final stage ELID data.
 
An important question for the thread: I'm considering removing the operations Dice and instead having that be handled entirely narratively. I don't believe it adds much to the quest and, seeing how the options to expand it's use have gone entirely ignored for quite a while, I don't think the thread does either.

Personally, having the operations of the Foundation limited by what the players select is rather limiting, but if you believe I should stick with it and try to flesh it out further, here's the chance to say so. If it's handled narratively, I will decide most of the course of action, however I will pay attention to what is being discussed in the thread, such as areas of concern.

[] Remove it, handle military operations narratively
[] Keep it

A small note, the reason you haven't heard much about IDC mucking around in Europe is because no actions have really been put towards looking into that, including the IDC Tracking option in the negotiation vote. Plus, there has been essentially zero conversation in the thread about it, and I do try to use the blindspots of the thread and work them into the narrative.
 
Rukia said:
A small note, the reason you haven't heard much about IDC mucking around in Europe is because no actions have really been put towards looking into that, including the IDC Tracking option in the negotiation vote. Plus, there has been essentially zero conversation in the thread about it, and I do try to use the blindspots of the thread and work them into the narrative.
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Ah. Makes sense.

I'm guessing succeeding at eliminating IDCs mucking around in Europe would be a way to raise public confidence and gain other benefits without having to use other dice to do so.

Man, we really are missing out a lot.
 
Rukia said:
You would be correct.
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If it was up to me I'd lean towards keeping the operation dice.

For the IDC tracking option, I was interested in it but thought other options were more important. I may or may not have been wrong. But next turn I'm hoping to be able to push for the IDCS network so that we can actually get a handle on the IDCs and start killing them.

Also I think some people weren't interested in the detection method because they thought that the visors and other stuff we developed would be enough. Or they took the Russians wanting the Visors and sensors to mean that our visors and sensors are much better than what the Russians have.

With both the Prowlers and now the Stalkers we should be much better equipped to hunt IDCs down.

[X] Keep it
 
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[X] Keep it

I prefer to keep the Operations aspect of this, because who doesn't love more micro-managing. But if you really feel opposed to it Rukia, then I'm fine if you don't want it anymore.
 
[X] Remove it, handle military operations narratively

Simple fact of the matter is that action economy and military micromanagement don't mix. Dice spent on deploying troops are wasted, but troops not deployed are also wasted.
 
[X] Remove it, handle military operations narratively

Well I was hoping it would start coming into play more with the additional IDC detection methods but since that's not happening...
 
Fireiy said:
[] Remove it, handle military operations narratively

Well I was hoping it would start coming into play more with the additional IDC detection methods but since that's not happening...
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Eh, to be fair we do have a option focused on detecting IDCs:

[] IDCS Network
Establish a loose network of facilities made for housing the new IDC sensors, allowing for notable concentrations of IDC to be detected from a large distance.
(0/100: 15 Resources per Die -5 Power -2 Labour)

We simply have to complete this option. 2 or 3 military dice since the dice god hates us and we can start operations.

Edit: To be fair, even if we remove the operations dice we'd better do this option since even if it turns to narrative events we still need the network since it'll damn well be useful and background events can and will fuck us over if we ignore warning signs like the GM outright telling us that the only reason we haven't heard about IDCs in Europe is we haven't invested effort in tracking them.
 
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