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Around & Again [Worm x Negima]

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Dimensionist said:
... Ugh. I just stopped reading the new chapter halfway through.

It's like every one worthy of note in Mahora is getting into a pissing match with Taylor to try and show how 'awsum' and 'speshial' she is. Like, what the heck? The Takamichi thing was also utterly retarded - yes Taylor, let's commit fucking murder because this guy is asking uncomfortable questions. Taylor never got that bad before getting her brain whammied by Panacea, and that was due to her powers going out of control. The bit with Eva was also incredibly stupid.

Just, no. If you're trying to make a crossover, you don't spend time showing stuff like that. It's just dumb.
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Indeed.
 
When Taylor gets uncomfortable she doesn't blurt things out, she clams up. She would never, ever, ever brag about her accomplishments because of that. A side effect of having your secrets being used against you by your former best friend just to hurt you for two years.

Now if it was using it as a weapon that is a different story. See the cafeteria confrontation for example. Pay attention to what she says, and what she doesn't say.
 
Jiopaba said:
She rattles off a ridiculous list of her accomplishments in the most showy way possible,
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No way was that the most showy way possible! This is Evangeline A. K. McDowell we're talking about here! Ms. hey-watch-while-I-flash-freeze-a-Kaiju herself, Ms. Dramatically Evil! Just because she's currently a sickly little girl does not mean she can't be three times as showy as shown, she just needs to work harder. She needs night, her awesome flappy, tattered cape, and an awesome backdrop of the Mahora roofs and a huge moon. Maybe a hat, too. While giving a lecture about how the world works, of course.
 
Olivebirdy said:
No way was that the most showy way possible! This is Evangeline A. K. McDowell we're talking about here! Ms. hey-watch-while-I-flash-freeze-a-Kaiju herself, Ms. Dramatically Evil! Just because she's currently a sickly little girl does not mean she can't be three times as showy as shown, she just needs to work harder. She needs night, her awesome flappy, tattered cape, and an awesome backdrop of the Mahora roofs and a huge moon. Maybe a hat, too. While giving a lecture about how the world works, of course.
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That's actually fairly accurate. It's Taylor's reaction that seemed off. She's not going to brag about killing Alexandria, for example. She's used to that being a strike against her.
 
Olivebirdy said:
No way was that the most showy way possible! This is Evangeline A. K. McDowell we're talking about here! Ms. hey-watch-while-I-flash-freeze-a-Kaiju herself, Ms. Dramatically Evil!
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a) Of course she can't actually do that kind of flashy stuff at the moment.

b) She was probably planning something flashier. Taylor calling her out and refusing to go with her really threw Evangeline off her game.
 
SolipsistSerpent said:
That's actually fairly accurate. It's Taylor's reaction that seemed off. She's not going to brag about killing Alexandria, for example. She's used to that being a strike against her.
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Well didn't Evangeline just brag about being the most horrific monster in the history of the world basically? By the standards she just threw down, 'I murdered a great champion of Justice, revered by the whole world' is an awesome achievement.

If it came up in talking with a good guy, she'd probably immediately try to explain some of the extenuating circumstances, or just flat out regret saying it. Leaving it like that fits for this context though. And like Ollivander said, "terrible, yes. But great." She needed amazing achievements to flesh out her 'badass resume.'

Actually, from a certain perspective, Eva and Taylor are in a very similar situation here. Both of them when 'unfettered' were scary powerful people, and both of them are greatly weakened compared to the influence and power they once held. Both of them were bragging about feats they're pretty much totally incapable of replicating now.
 
Gah! This thread's brimming with characterization Nazi's. Yes Taylor must always be a 120% accurate portrayal of herself from canon. Let's just toss half the written Worm fanfics into the sun since Taylor's acting too happy or zany in them. Jesus, just let it goooooooooo........ : /

*sigh*Sorry bout that; It just pisses me off that here's a fun cracky fic to read and then some people run in shitting on everything because "Baww this isn't how ____ acts at all".
SolipsistSerpent said:
That's actually fairly accurate. It's Taylor's reaction that seemed off. She's not going to brag about killing Alexandria, for example. She's used to that being a strike against her.
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I'm chalking this up to her having had a brain window installed with 9mm slugs, and receiving healing for said head holes by magic from a universe that runs on harem comedy thematic laws.
 
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ShineUCrazyStar said:
Gah! This thread's brimming with characterization Nazi's. Yes Taylor must always be a 120% accurate portrayal of herself from canon. Let's just toss half the written Worm fanfics into the sun since Taylor's acting too happy or zany in them. Jesus, just let it goooooooooo........ : /

*sigh*Sorry bout that; It just pisses me of that here's a fun cracky fic to read and then some people run in shitting on everything because "Baww this isn't how ____ acts at all".

I'm chalking this up to her having had a brain window installed with 9mm slugs, and receiving healing for said head holes by magic from a universe that runs on harem comedy thematic laws.
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I chalk it up to channeling Skitter. It's all about Rep for people like Eva. She is, understandably, a bad ass daywalker who could conquer the world given time is she wanted, who could take down invading armies with a wave of her hand and a laugh that would haunt people's nightmares for ages to come. She sees herself as the big shark in the fish tank and expects others to be cowed by her very presence when they find out who and what she is and finds it amusing when they do. She also finds it amusing when people screw up their courage to face her.

Taylor knows this, from her dealings in BB as a Crime Overlord. Look how she dealt with Accord as a good example. None of Eva's accomplishments really mean a thing to her because she isn't from Aleph or Mars/Magic Country. Just like Eva doesn't know Taylor's accomplishments or if she is simply blowing things out her ass.

Except Taylor has a look and feel similar to Eva.. so when she talks about her accomplishments and sins, of what she has done and what she has tried to atone for, Eva knows what Taylor said is true, same as how Taylor knows that Eva isn't just throwing out titles, she is trying to gauge Taylor's reactions.

Taylor understands this and finds it hilarious how someone as old as Eva is pulling the same game as people a tenth of her age.

That's what I get out of it.
 
Taylor has had bragging moments in the canon story. They're rare, and usually done for pragmatic causes, but they exist. Of course, one of the better moments was when she paraphrased Alexandria... "Not a promise...", which was rather more about vengeance... but meh.

For that matter, the bank heist had boasts, though I don't recall if she did it herself or one of the others talked her up.
 
ShineUCrazyStar said:
Gah! This thread's brimming with characterization Nazi's. Yes Taylor must always be a 120% accurate portrayal of herself from canon. Let's just toss half the written Worm fanfics into the sun since Taylor's acting too happy or zany in them. Jesus, just let it goooooooooo........ : /

*sigh*Sorry bout that; It just pisses me off that here's a fun cracky fic to read and then some people run in shitting on everything because "Baww this isn't how ____ acts at all".

I'm chalking this up to her having had a brain window installed with 9mm slugs, and receiving healing for said head holes by magic from a universe that runs on harem comedy thematic laws.
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Kind of defeats the purpose of having a post Khepri Taylor with all the character growth that implies, whereas so far that background's most prominent use was as bragging rights.

As to explaining away her ooc-ness as a result of brain damage; fridge horror much?
"She had what amounts to a stroke and her personality radically shifted".

Way to start a lighthearted story when instead you could use something like this;
"war veteran skitter slowly grows out of despair and a lot of issues in a nicer world, with new friends and adventures instead of 'win or die' goals between struggles for survival".
 
ShineUCrazyStar said:
*sigh*Sorry bout that; It just pisses me off that here's a fun cracky fic to read and then some people run in shitting on everything because "Baww this isn't how ____ acts at all".
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Ignoring all characterization with the excuse of "cracky fic" isn't a good excuse. Especially since this fic has the potential to be some mix of serious and humour (like Negima was), though I'm not sure where the author want to go with that.

I won't comment one way or another on whether the characterisation is horribly inaccurate or not, though.
 
Jiopaba said:
Hah, I'm quite enjoying this actually.

You just have to accept that there's a sort of 'translation effect' happening from the moment Taylor got shoved into this setting. Negima is a shounen adventure that was wrapped up in a harem comedy because of executive meddling. Taylor can drag a lot of angst and grimdark around with her, but the whole 'then things got worse' bit is more a quirk of her universe rather than her actual person.

When she got moved into the Negimaverse, I just assume she became naturally more light-hearted because that's the way this new universe she's in works. There are serious things going on in Mahou Sensei Negima, but someone having lived a seriously bad life just results in them becoming eccentric in Negima, rather than dangerously insane.
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Jiopaba said:
Honestly, given the shit that Takamichi has put up with in the past and will in the future? Assault with a knife seems like something only a horribly scary psychopath would do to one of us because someone who has a knife when we don't is in a position of power over us.

Takamichi was probably barely even playing with her in that little 'fight.' The encounter lasted what, five seconds from start to finish? He was probably still thinking "Hahaha, did this bitch just come at me with a plastic knife? Oh god, is she stabbing me with a spork? This is hilarious. Still, I wonder what's got her so riled up? Is she from Mundus Magicus, fresh out of a war or what?"

After brushing off the attack like a kitten had just tried to gum him to death, him and the Dean confronted her about why she's so desperate to escape without even verifying if they're the good guys. They're in a position of basically absolute power over her and she's in a shitty enough headspace that she goes along with it and tells them the gist of what made her so crazy. From their perspective she's a great hero who sacrificed everything to save the world from an unspeakable evil, and paid a terrible price for it.

Mahora has a strange tendency to attract broken people like that anyway, so although her case is fairly extreme, it's not really unusual for them to want to help her out even if she doesn't have much power now. They give her a magical prosthetic, tell her to chill out because they can largely keep her safe while she's here, and then offer her a job because all the charity she's being offered makes her suspicious as hell.

Later things like Takamichi sharing his knowledge of the potential 'threats' in the class then make perfect sense. She's not Negi, she's not there to be tested and grow into a powerful Magi who can face her own problems. No, she's a proven badass who just wants the rundown of what to watch out for, so Takamichi tells her.

Eva gets curious later about what sort of seemingly completely powerless human can stare her in the eyes without flinching away feeling like prey, so in an unusually boastful mood she tries to convince Taylor that she should be afraid. She rattles off a ridiculous list of her accomplishments in the most showy way possible, expecting that Taylor will either not believe her and be set up for a 'horrified realization upon seeing proof' scene next full moon, or that Taylor will believe her and be afraid. Instead, Taylor is pragmatic enough to flip it around and rattle off her list of ridiculous accomplishments in the same manner to distract Evangeline and let her get in a cheap shot. Taylor's not over her experiences, but she's certainly pretty disconnected from them given the buffer that was Khepri, and this is a chance to start over in a different place.

I don't think anyone is acting horribly out of character beyond the reasonable amount of 'mental trauma softening' implied by the fact that she's now in a Comedy setting. Maybe there's something in the water at Mahora, who knows, but the setting is rife with people who have terrible backstories that should leave them in an asylum but they're funny happy people who can at least put on a facade of being well-adjusted when you don't look too closely.
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While you have a point about how the setting would react to Taylor, I don't like what has been done with Taylor herself. The decision to have Taylor be "comedified" for the sake of crack is both a destruction of her character in all but the must narrow vestiges, but moreover its not even necessary. It'd make far more sense for Taylor in Mahora to function like Sousuke Sagara from Full Metal Panic. It'd still be comedic, but without turning Taylor into Taylor-in-name-only. Though this is all making me imagine a horror story where its like Invasion of the Pod people, except instead of pod people, its the characters and very world itself getting forcibly assimilated into the comedy genre.
 
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Black Noise said:
Kind of defeats the purpose of having a post Khepri Taylor with all the character growth that implies, whereas so far that background's most prominent use was as bragging rights.

As to explaining away her ooc-ness as a result of brain damage; fridge horror much?
"She had what amounts to a stroke and her personality radically shifted".

Way to start a lighthearted story when instead you could use something like this;
"war veteran skitter slowly grows out of despair and a lot of issues in a nicer world, with new friends and adventures instead of 'win or die' goals between struggles for survival".
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Fridge horror quails before the Crack!
Really though I was just throwing that out there, I actualy like karmafalcon's angle a lot better.
Bki said:
Ignoring all characterization with the excuse of "cracky fic" isn't a good excuse. Especially since this fic has the potential to be some mix of serious and humour (like Negima was), though I'm not sure where the author want to go with that.

I won't comment one way or another on whether the characterisation is horribly inaccurate or not, though.
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I'm not saying we should light all characterization on fire and throw it into the grand canyon, I understand that there's still a loose boundry of characterization that needs to be adhered to for the story to work. Taylor's still going to be Taylor, but all the minor OCC quirks that people are ragging on about is a ridicolous argument to have towards a somewhat cracky humor fic.
 
ShineUCrazyStar said:
I'm not saying we should light all characterization on fire and throw it into the grand canyon, I understand that there's still a loose boundry of characterization that needs to be adhered to for the story to work. Taylor's still going to be Taylor, but all the minor OCC quirks that people are ragging on about is a ridicolous argument to have towards a somewhat cracky humor fic.
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I actually really liked the part where she tried to shiv Taka..machi(?). Damn it, Nanoha really is more memorable. I even think Evangeline trying to intimidate her makes some sense for the character. I liked Taylor outmaneuvering Setsuna, too. That probably bears repeating, I like the concept and many of the scenes.

It's just that much of Taylor's dialogue feels off. If you don't tell authors when their dialogue feels off, they're not going to improve. It's not just the bragging, the offering Asuna briefs bit was something I could see her doing if asked but not volunteering.
 
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Black Noise said:
As to explaining away her ooc-ness as a result of brain damage; fridge horror much?
"She had what amounts to a stroke and her personality radically shifted".
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Indeed. That's my reaction to "comedifying" a serious character.

And as I noted before, its unnecessary. You don't need to "comedify" a serious character to make them work in a comedy. In fact serious characters work great for comedies, especially when the world fails to conform to their perspective. Having post-Khepri Taylor in total Sousuke Sagara mode put into early Negima sounds like it has a ton of potential. And better yet, as the story continues, between Taylor mellowing out and the setting shifting towards more serious shonen adventure, a healthier equilibrium is reached, with Taylor becoming neither an excessively paranoid character nor a properly paranoid one.

It seems like screwing characterization and plotting in favor of just random crack moments comes across as a waste of a story.
 
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SolipsistSerpent said:
I actually really liked the part where she tried to shiv Taka..machi(?). Damn it, Nanoha really is more memorable. I even think Evangeline trying to intimidate her makes some sense for the character. That probably bears repeating, I like the concept and many of the scenes.

It's just that much of Taylor's dialogue feels off. If you don't tell authors when their dialogue feels off, they're not going to improve.
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It would make for rich comedy to have Taylor at some point work out the shonen method of friend making (Warning TVtropes) effect that shes having on her defeted opponents, and be sufficiently weirded out by it due to being from a different genre background.

Oh, Im all for constructive criticisms, but the whole thing inappropriately spiraled way the hell out of control afterwards.
 
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I think I know what the issue is. Basically everything here could work, it's just that Taylor inner justifications for everything would be different. Think WataMote except with Worm tropes in her head instead of romance tropes.
 
I think one of the underlying problems is that Xomniac is just too used to writing Taylor from the very beginning. We're rehashing some parts of the written chapters with a Beta.
 
Since we're on the subject, I had issues of the part where Takamichi info-dumps her on the class roster. Girl pops in out of nowhere, has no verifiable background, is pretty paranoid and untrusting, has no knowledge of the magical world for this world...and you're going to give away all the class secrets? Er, what?

Negi as an actual full-up teacher compared to Taylor as a teaching assistant and with insane pedigree and background and already knowing Takamichi beforehand didn't get told anything at all about the class.

It felt like another scene just here to showcase Taylor and not being organic. It came off Sue-ish, even, oh look the new character to canon instantly gets told everyone's secrets and trumps various canon badasses.
 
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