Antagonistic Appropriation

Well she certainly hasn't been acting much like a benevolent goddess. Though I'll admit, "Joyful Devourer of Dark Destinies" is actually pretty vague about where on the morality spectrum she sits, especially when she accepts "Joy" as a casual nickname. That said, she was also ready and eager to eat the magical girls who are at worst misguided. So…definitely not a moral paragon by any metric, and probably closer to the middle of any morality spectrum. Which is honestly for the best, given everything, but does also mean that both sides have ample reason to hate her. The empire (above and beyond the fact that she's what allows a political upheaval) won't like how willing she is to work with the forces of love and justice, while the Rainbows aren't going to like how eager she is to eat people. I guess for that last part V.V. will be able to strategically lose some things in translation, at least for a little while, but still. This is a goddess who feeds her host umbra and not aether. They're going to be suspicious, even if it turns out she can do both or something.

Though if it turns out that the reason Magenta's being so cagey is that there's no great fundamental difference between umbra and aether aside from intent and use case…well, that'll have it's own consequences I'm sure. But regardless, Joy does a terrible job of fitting any kind of good or benevolent goddess archetypes.
Sure, but I suspect all goddesses are like Joy, because they're fundamentally inhuman eldritch entities who view the world very differently, which is a type of character Alivaril seems to enjoy greatly. I think that aether and umbra is a pretty much meaningless distinction for Joy, and V gets Umbra because it's what she asks for, not because Joy can't wield Aether.

Also, I'll note the only people we've seen Joy actually talk about eating are the Rainbows themselves, and that seemed a) a little jokey and b) mostly based on how V feels about them, because Jo's morality basically prioritises V's happiness and well-being above literally every other concern. V herself seems largely moral, and would be distressed by Joy just smiting all her enemies, which is why she doesn't do it.

All of that is somewhat tangential to my original point though, which is that ultimately I think gods are people and so don't fall neatly into "light" and "dark" anymore than IRL people are neatly sorted into "good" and "evil".

I could be wrong about all of that of course, but that's my read on things so far.

that she's survived the effort means she's not your average pushover, either.
She can resurrect herself from the dead, and the Empire doesn't seem to know a way to keep her down permanently, so this might not be quite as true as it seems at first blush.
 
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You know, I had other things planned for tonight, and binging through this excellent story you so callously posted was really bad for them, you time thief you.
Thank you for writing. :D
 
The rebels weren't even a weeks' march away from the capital, and still the Empire's nobility squabbled for power.
week's*

I would sooner doom myself by revealing Joy than let that happen

Foreshadowing?


Kek

You want us to present Azure as Crown Princess?" Topaz asked incredulously.

It's not really made clear what the end goal of this scheme is. Now, I'd buy that they ain't thought that far, but still.

What's the plan if they DO manage to usurp the throne lol
 
week's*



Foreshadowing?



Kek



It's not really made clear what the end goal of this scheme is. Now, I'd buy that they ain't thought that far, but still.

What's the plan if they DO manage to usurp the throne lol
If they can usurp the throne they can make arrangements for if they end up releasing the curse. They can take a step back and thoroughly look for third party interference. Additionally, as pointed out in the most recent chapter, they can get more information and training if people they interact with no longer have to fear what happens if the rebellion fails.

But yeah, they also don't have a solid plan.

Totally an intentional attempt at the unspoken plan guarantee. For sure.
 
My take is she "happily eats bad ends" so happy ending goddess, maybe? She's not evul, she's just misunderstood.

Well V.V., who understands her quite well, doesn't exactly seem to think of her as morally upstanding. Though I do wonder. Was the 'bear incident' an accident, or is Joy stuck in some kind of void and wanted more than just empty nothingness to look at? She was pretty precise with those letters and that badge, after all…

Sure, but I suspect all goddesses are like Joy, because they're fundamentally inhuman eldritch entities who view the world very differently, which is a type of character Alivaril seems to enjoy greatly. I think that aether and umbra is a pretty much meaningless distinction for Joy, and V gets Umbra because it's what she asks for, not because Joy can't wield Aether.

Also, I'll note the only people we've seen Joy actually talk about eating are the Rainbows themselves, and that seemed a) a little jokey and b) mostly based on how V feels about them, because Jo's morality basically prioritises V's happiness and well-being above literally every other concern. V herself seems largely moral, and would be distressed by Joy just smiting all her enemies, which is why she doesn't do it.

All of that is somewhat tangential to my original point though, which is that ultimately I think gods are people and so don't fall neatly into "light" and "dark" anymore than IRL people are neatly sorted into "good" and "evil".

I could be wrong about all of that of course, but that's my read on things so far.

I have to agree, this seems like a more complex situation than good and evil being the only options. But the genre conventions of Magical Girl Shenanigans are also present in some form, which muddies the waters a tad and also sets expectations. Though…the f-bomb thing could just be something Magenta did specifically to the Rainbows to help pull the wool over their eyes, so who knows.

She can resurrect herself from the dead, and the Empire doesn't seem to know a way to keep her down permanently, so this might not be quite as true as it seems at first blush.

V.V.'s narration implies that the resurrection thing developed over time. But even if it didn't, dying a lot can teach you so many things about what to do and what not to do. Especially if you've been doing it as long as Magenta has. I'll admit it's possible for her to still just be a combat-brained idiot with no head for strategy, but she's at least talented in combat since the Rainbows also mentioned that she's the only one who can actually hit V.V.
 
First my little pony, now you get me hooked on magical girls as well?

...How am I suposed to find things that scratche this niche itch
 
I mean Magenta doesn't seem incompetent, more morally grey at best and outright evil at worst. But she's apparently been successfully leading a rebellion for several generations now, and that counts for something. Sure, the fact she hasn't succeeded in all that time doesn't say much about her competence, but the fact that she's survived the effort means she's not your average pushover, either. The real question is whether her latest efforts are her own ideas or someone else's. Because if she's been working with outside forces for all this time, why has she just been distracting the Umbral Empire? But if she's only recently got outside backing…well. In that case she probably is about as competent as the empire's bureaucracy, and only making headway now because of whatever outside forces is using her for their own ends.

Said outside force, however, is quite possibly not incompetent at all, especially since they seem to be the big bad final boss around these parts. Sure they might be some variation of sparkly-but-evil that also happens to be ineffectual as hell or some kind of sneaky-shady-cunning but also way-too-self-backstabby organization…but they might also be the one most terrifying force which any sane being knows to fear: a streamlined and effective bureaucracy.
I'm not talking about the Rainbows though, I'm talking about Violent and Grey, who've spent a decent amount of time serving under a revolving series of incompetent commanders alongside doomed soldiers and only surviving due to a mix of luck, competency, cunning and divine intervention.
 
With all this talk about Magenta's reanimation, which we haven't actually seen yet, and the talk about potential other, third dimensions launching an invasion... I wonder, is this actually a case of her being reanimated, or is it more like she's being remotely piloted from the third dimension? And whenever she dies they need to send over a new drone body for her to continue using while the 'actual' Magenta is never in danger. Either that or some kind of brain upload/backup, or even something like reestablishing the connection and restoring the body through it, although I'm not sure how much of a difference that would actually make in practice.
 
This is one of those stories where I'm legitimately annoyed that I've read it at 20,000 words and not 200,000. Very keen for more.

Just on the nature of Joy:
…Or, well. Plenty of my predecessors had forced their subordinates to carry oversized palanquins on the march. The one time I'd been ordered to carry one by Umbral Captain Callous Countess, Joy had been so thoroughly incandescent with rage that the world around us had noticeably brightened. Fortunately for everyone, the Callous Countess took the oddly bright world as a sign that the Rainbows were nearer than reported and was reluctant to risk her precious bedding. When no foes manifested by nightfall, Callous Countess had not been pleased, but her petty tantrum and demands were preferable to having Joy finally snap and abandon all restraint.

It's interesting that her rage brightens the world. That could just be what sufficient power does (although I would have imagined that a lot of umbra would do the opposite), or it could be that it interferes with the Curtain, but it could also point a bit towards at least the potential for a 'nice' interpretation of her.
 
The impression I'm getting from the empire (limited as our time with it is) is that nobody is going to believe that Edmund was actually a traitor but they're not going to do anything about it either. Either from self-preservation of not wanting to be labeled an accomplice or just not caring so long as the frame job is competent enough.
Most people are probably going to beleive he was a traitor, because Violet didn't just accuse him of treason, she brought receipts.
She had Joy eat the evidence of his innocence, 'proved' he was carrying a fake wraith ID , which he threw at the largest group of soldiers when discovered, and then had Plot conspire to have the Rainbows show up shortly after the orders would have removed Violet from the area.
 
I have to agree, this seems like a more complex situation than good and evil being the only options. But the genre conventions of Magical Girl Shenanigans are also present in some form, which muddies the waters a tad and also sets expectations. Though…the f-bomb thing could just be something Magenta did specifically to the Rainbows to help pull the wool over their eyes, so who knows.

V.V.'s narration implies that the resurrection thing developed over time. But even if it didn't, dying a lot can teach you so many things about what to do and what not to do. Especially if you've been doing it as long as Magenta has. I'll admit it's possible for her to still just be a combat-brained idiot with no head for strategy, but she's at least talented in combat since the Rainbows also mentioned that she's the only one who can actually hit V.V.
Yeah, I think the genre conventions are a setup.

It sort of does, but V isn't a perfectly reliable narrator. It could be that Magenta used to take more time between rezzes because she needed to, or it could be that she was taking breaks because she was frustrated at making little headway, or it could be that V is misinformed and she's always popped back with the same speed.

True, but I was only contesting the point that her survival indicated anything in particular. Further I suspect Magenta's powers (because she has magnet powers) play into things, as V wears a lot of metal and primarily fights with a metal sword. All that said, I don't think Magenta is particularly incompetent, or anything.

With all this talk about Magenta's reanimation, which we haven't actually seen yet, and the talk about potential other, third dimensions launching an invasion... I wonder, is this actually a case of her being reanimated, or is it more like she's being remotely piloted from the third dimension? And whenever she dies they need to send over a new drone body for her to continue using while the 'actual' Magenta is never in danger. Either that or some kind of brain upload/backup, or even something like reestablishing the connection and restoring the body through it, although I'm not sure how much of a difference that would actually make in practice.
If it's shipping over a new body, it raises the question of why killing her with dark magic makes the rez take longer.
 
So, been a bit too busy to catch this in the Snippets thread but... Alivaril? So happy to see you writing again, and with a spectacular story at that! Really looking forward to seeing it continue.
That was Crimson's logic, and she would stick to it. Because if she let her mind drift too much, thought too hard about what she'd seen, was now sensing, she might not be capable of doing anything at all. After all, Crimson was forbidden from spoiling that which was meant to be hidden from mortal eyes. The geas binding Crimson didn't care if those secrets were on Earth, Faerie, or the Shaded Realm; no matter the location, it apparently still applied.

Crimson could barely manage to dismiss her map. Moving, telling the other Rainbows that Violence was might be an avatar, was out of the question. She should've kept her damn mouth shut instead of revealing that fairy's game.

...Admittedly, it was kind of hot that Crimson was currently incapable of moving under her own power in the presence of her crush.
This bit here...

Well, firstly I'm going to agree that I strongly suspect Crimson got hit with the Geas before she arrived in the Shaded Realm. But secondly? Considering all the tropes that seem in play, the move that the Rainbows are pulling off here using what is apparently a 'ghost' rather than a 'goddess' and the way VV is just completely fed up with everything, actually a bit taken aback by how the Rainbows actually seemed to be listening to her and having a discussion with their last engagement and just now had that whole 'Well, I'm not a traitor if they can't prove I committed treason' moment...

I have a feeling that things are going to go well for the Rainbows, then horribly and it's all going to end up with the Geas being broken at the worst (best) possible time for VV. And now I'm just imagining Joy's satisfaction if she's the one to remove the Geas (which absolutely seems like it should be something she could do if she wanted) in such a way as to cause Crimson to blow open VV's secret.

And considering the mention of changing VV's eye and hair colour, I'm kind of wondering if Joy would reverse those changes as part of 'revealing her presence'... Just for that extra bit of chaos.

Also had an interesting thought regarding Azure. It seems to me like Joy has quite a bit of skill at flesh-sculpting and considering what the current relationship between the 'six' Rainbows and VV is now, along with how it might develop and what all the 'extra elements' that we strongly suspect are in play will cause to alter all that... Might they have found the talented and trustworthy Flesh-sculptor Azure is hoping for?

... Hell, now I'm wondering if the other five girls would also take advantage of that if they could to bring their 'civilian' forms closer to their Magical Girl Form in the ways they'd like.
It's interesting that her rage brightens the world. That could just be what sufficient power does (although I would have imagined that a lot of umbra would do the opposite), or it could be that it interferes with the Curtain, but it could also point a bit towards at least the potential for a 'nice' interpretation of her.
Honestly, to me...

Well, considering what Joy's full name is? I don't think she's necessarily a Light/good Goddess but I also don't think she's necessarily a Dark Goddess. She honestly sounds like she might actually be the sort of Goddess who is quite effective at such things as destroying the 'Curse' that the people of the Shaded Realm are suffering from in such a way as to grant the Cursed the ability to choose the form they end up with. And that's also got an impact on all the 'cursed' energy aka corrupted aether aka umbra around when she really exerts herself.

After all, what is a curse but a Dark Destiny? And what is being trapped in a form that causes you despair but a Dark Destiny? I am definitely looking forward to finding out more about Joy.
 
Honestly, to me...

Well, considering what Joy's full name is? I don't think she's necessarily a Light/good Goddess but I also don't think she's necessarily a Dark Goddess. She honestly sounds like she might actually be the sort of Goddess who is quite effective at such things as destroying the 'Curse' that the people of the Shaded Realm are suffering from in such a way as to grant the Cursed the ability to choose the form they end up with. And that's also got an impact on all the 'cursed' energy aka corrupted aether aka umbra around when she really exerts herself.

After all, what is a curse but a Dark Destiny? And what is being trapped in a form that causes you despair but a Dark Destiny? I am definitely looking forward to finding out more about Joy.
Counterpoint: you are what you eat, so Joyful Devourer of Dark Destinies really is a dark Goddess :p

Jokes aside, the fact that tiny drip of power she feeds Vivi takes shape of the same umbra that the rest of Shaded Empire uses suggests that she is, indeed, a Dark Goddess, as does the fact that she considers Shaded Empire's reason for existence to be catering to her avatar.
 
Crimson's geas here is really interesting, and provides some interesting conflict. It's also interesting that the fae can apparently bypass their pretty potent magical protections and lay down a long-lasting curse like that, in terms of the broader setting.
Eh, specifics can certainly vary a lot by setting, but generally speaking, fae shenanigans tend to run in the vein of only really being able to have power given to them. It's common for that to involve trickery or misunderstanding, but I would be inclined to suspect that in Crimson's case she technically agreed to it. If that is the case, well, magical protection doesn't tend to amount to much against something let to happen. That may be all the more applicable, too, when strictly speaking the geas in and of itself isn't anything harmful, entirely "fair" from a certain point of view.

If it's shipping over a new body, it raises the question of why killing her with dark magic makes the rez take longer.
I have to wonder if using dark magic might actually accomplish a measure of actual harm to her. She comes back after being killed as what seems to be a standard staple; in a setup like that, for a fantasy setting, heck, that kinda raises the idea that the go-to solution ought to be to break out the necromancers to try to make death stick... and maybe that's not far off what's in play?

Her physical form is basically irrelevant by all accounts. Do something to her physical form, and it's basically meaningless because that's more or less her relationship with her body in the first place. So, gotta do something to "her", personally and directly, not just the interchangeable meatsuit. If dark magic, say, means some kind of mumbo jumbo magic stuff harming her spirit or the like, that could be more meaningful than obliging her to just grab a new body.

Clearly, dark magic isn't enough to cut it as such power has been employed thus far, but it suggests a possibility that her adversaries might be on the right track. Perhaps she has to rest up and recover from getting actually hurt, and perhaps so much killing her a whole lot harder with more potent dark magic might accomplish more.

Come to think of it, though, the fact that she takes seven months and a day to come back from being killed with dark magic compared to merely a few days of downtime otherwise makes me wonder if maybe she's having to "actually resurrect" resurrect. The other girls demonstrate that pretty serious injury, well, isn't, not to them; it's a running joke that VV keeps breaking their bones, and yet the Rainbows are aggravated and exasperated by it, not in traction. And Magenta is apparently an old magical girl? Maybe she has picked up a fuzzy relationship with what mortality and what counts as alive and dead in her years. Perhaps mundane death is sorta just a serious injury to her yet within the context of how bad "bad" is for a Rainbow? Yet if she's slain by dark magic, maybe that's a whole different story requiring much more involved recovery to actually come back to life from something much more definitively dead or at least not-alive?

Regardless, though, it is interesting that she has been around so long. The timescale we've been given is a little ambiguous, but unless gargoyles happen to have unusually short generations so that the comment about Gray's grandmother doesn't actually mean much, well, it does certainly suggest that Magenta has been a staple for a good long while. That, coupled with the peculiarity of her different recovery times and the current setup makes me a little suspicious if maybe Magenta herself isn't necessarily responsible for her resurrection; if it's seven months and a day for her to come back after death by dark magic... maybe she has a backer that isn't letting her die a true death?

Given that VV is tight with a dark goddess and Crimson establishes that geas shenanigans and Faerie exist, I'm definitely not ruling out the possibility for Magenta to be complicated.

And considering the mention of changing VV's eye and hair colour, I'm kind of wondering if Joy would reverse those changes as part of 'revealing her presence'... Just for that extra bit of chaos.
A thought, would Joy necessarily need to do so? Crimson's perspective piece reveals a lot about the Rainbows, and from what the chapter puts forth, it looks like "Violence" and "Violet" can perfectly well be two distinct physical forms that needn't necessarily have much bearing on one another. If VV transforms, the fact that Joy changed her original hair and eye colours may be irrelevant.

Granted, given that Joy was responsible for the disguise change, it still wouldn't be surprising if actually it totally did matter anyway, but I'm inclined to suspect that going full Rainbow Revolutionary could make blatant her place in the lineup.
 
Come to think of it, though, the fact that she takes seven months and a day to come back from being killed with dark magic compared to merely a few days of downtime otherwise
Note it's 8 days for mundane weapons, or 7+1. Makes me think there's something significant going on there, especially given Magenta's position as the +1 to the Rainbows.
 
Note it's 8 days for mundane weapons, or 7+1. Makes me think there's something significant going on there, especially given Magenta's position as the +1 to the Rainbows.
VV's narration has her calling out the figure as "eight days at the absolute latest" and Crimson gives what may or may not be a generalisation of a week. There does look to be something curious going on with parallels, but the wording offers implication that Magenta may come back in less than eight days sometimes. It sounds like the 7+1 thing is a guarantee that she'll be back by then barring extenuating circumstances, in which case it's sorta still in play and just in a different way.

Regardless, though, even at maximum, the broader point is just that it's still a trifle for the context of things—she's dead, and yet it takes specifically killing her with dark magic for it to be any big deal at all. The Rainbows shrug off injury pretty easily, and Magenta seems to treat getting killed as just an extension of that. Oh no, I broke a rib! ...Anyway. Well fiddlesticks, there's a spear in my heart, see you in a few days, I guess.
 
If it's shipping over a new body, it raises the question of why killing her with dark magic makes the rez take longer

Could be that dark magic to her avatar damages the connection she uses to send her next one, if we're really serious about rationalizing it. Seems more likely to me that the other speculation about an injury < serious injury < death < death by dark magic hierarchy is more on point, though in that case it'd probably mean that "serious injury" and "injury by dark magic" would be about as difficult to heal. And potentially also "serious injury by dark magic" approaches or outright is as difficult to heal as death. But we'll have to wait for more chapters before we get anything that could confirm or deny that theory, sadly.
 
Bleh. Next update will be delayed 48+ hours more than it would've originally been, because I sustained a second concussion ~9 days after the first one and writing would probably involve more brainpower than I'm supposed to be using at the moment. It's nearly done (minus beta-reading) even after rewriting a large portion of it, which makes this even more annoying.

I'm very happy about AA's reception and all the speculation, though!
 
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Bleh. Next update will be delayed 48+ hours more than it would've originally been, because I sustained a second concussion ~9 days after the first one and writing would probably involve more brainpower than I'm supposed to be using at the moment. It's nearly done (minus beta-reading) even after rewriting a large portion of it, which makes this even more annoying.

I'm very happy about AA's reception and all the speculation, though!
Best luck for a speedy recovery!
EDIT: Clicked the wrong button initially by accident.
 
"All we want to do is eat your brains~"
I just wanted to point out that it sounds like Thyme here was actually comparing the rebellions' goals to the Zombies' from the song Re: Your Brains, which is a really interesting thing as it shows she's already acknowledging that they might actually be on the wrong side.
red-eyed telepathic marshmallow
So, this is Kyubey, from Puella Magi Madoka Magica. Unfortunately, killing one doesn't do much more than delay them a few minutes...
Unlikely, to be sure, but without Magenta present to whisper poison in their ears, I was at least willing to acknowledge it as possible.
I know that Magenta is apparently a known figure who has led the rebellion for far longer than the Rainbows have been around, and with the previous conversation it's a reasonable conclusion, but that's still a surprisingly fast shift in thinking for Violence to realize that the Rainbows are being misguided by Magenta lying to them.
 
It's interesting that her rage brightens the world. That could just be what sufficient power does (although I would have imagined that a lot of umbra would do the opposite), or it could be that it interferes with the Curtain, but it could also point a bit towards at least the potential for a 'nice' interpretation of her.
Keep in mind that the citizens of the Umbral Empire are actively harmed by sunlight. Brightness is threatening to them in the way that sudden unexplained darkness is to us.
 
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