Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania

Generally the entire nano-tech thing sucks ass. Iron Man was never worse when he got that crap. All sense of 'Iron' was replaced with just magical nonsense.

I'm sure tons of effort goes into those nanotech suit designs. So I don't want to badmouth the artists. But it feels like effort that's misspent for the sake of making the suits always feel more . . . more.

The original suits had a lot of effort put into making their intricate folding and unfolding feel weighty and realistic. I am SURE that they were doing things that are actually geometrically impossible, but it was hidden well, and the results were astounding while having remarkably little of the visual noise that plagues 'Bayformer' designs.

Iron Man 2 might be a weak movie overall, but the hot rod was an amazing suit up sequence.

The nanotech suits, by comparison just feel very blatant in how they're hiding their fakeness behind smears of CGI particle effects. It creates something that is just visually much less interesting to watch.

Like I said, it's a lot of effort by a lot of people, but it doesn't feel like effort well spent.
 
I'm sure tons of effort goes into those nanotech suit designs. So I don't want to badmouth the artists. But it feels like effort that's misspent for the sake of making the suits always feel more . . . more.

The original suits had a lot of effort put into making their intricate folding and unfolding feel weighty and realistic. I am SURE that they were doing things that are actually geometrically impossible, but it was hidden well, and the results were astounding while having remarkably little of the visual noise that plagues 'Bayformer' designs.

Iron Man 2 might be a weak movie overall, but the hot rod was an amazing suit up sequence.

The nanotech suits, by comparison just feel very blatant in how they're hiding their fakeness behind smears of CGI particle effects. It creates something that is just visually much less interesting to watch.

Like I said, it's a lot of effort by a lot of people, but it doesn't feel like effort well spent.
It's the frustrating thing, because the VFX people are notoriously screwed very very hard on these productions especially and you want to be kind about the work as a result, but they're implementing effects which haven't been conceived in an interesting way, I think. Anecdotally the actual director usually isn't involved in that side of the process until a fully animated sequence is brought to them, so there isn't really a strong artistic voice steering things.

I just think that the biggest, most lucrative franchise in the world should be able to muster up some more distinctive films that are nice to look at, and at least a few really good shots.
 
It's the frustrating thing, because the VFX people are notoriously screwed very very hard on these productions especially and you want to be kind about the work as a result, but they're implementing effects which haven't been conceived in an interesting way, I think. Anecdotally the actual director usually isn't involved in that side of the process until a fully animated sequence is brought to them, so there isn't really a strong artistic voice steering things.

I just think that the biggest, most lucrative franchise in the world should be able to muster up some more distinctive films that are nice to look at, and at least a few really good shots.
Yeah and VFX staff are not unionized in Hollywood, so they get a ton of work with little time and (probably less-than deserving pay as well), so I always tend to not criticize a movie by its VFX because those guys are overworked and under resourced / staffed.
 
Yeah and VFX staff are not unionized in Hollywood, so they get a ton of work with little time and (probably less-than deserving pay as well), so I always tend to not criticize a movie by its VFX because those guys are overworked and under resourced / staffed.
But we can criticise the decisions at the top which cause this. Particularly the practice within Marvel Studios of hiring directors with little VFX experience and siloing pre-vis teams. Besides the lack of directorial input, they often suffer from not having the cinematographer on hand to figure out shots. And that's not a small thing, because it means the pre-vis guys are then doing someone else's job which they're not trained for. It's part of why MCU action setpieces are often quite anonymous and samey in their presentation, compared to some other big blockbusters. I didn't care much for Avatar 2 but its action definitely benefited from Cameron's hand being on the rudder of the VFX sequences.

One consequence of that is that effects have to be pretty much finished just to be evaluated by the director. So you get big chunks of work effectively going to waste, instead of the decisions being made at an earlier stage so the effects can be finished to a higher standard.
 
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www.hollywoodreporter.com

‘Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania’ Zooming to Big $118M Box Office Opening

The Marvel Studios posted the best start of the three 'Ant-Man' films at the domestic box office and one of the best showings ever for Presidents Day. The pic's global start is nearly $240 million.
Marking the first studio event pic of 2023, the third film in Marvel Studios and Disney's stand-alone superhero series is headed for a franchise-best domestic debut of $118 million at the Presidents Day box office, including $104 million for the three days. Grosses will be updated again on Monday.

Overseas, the Marvel pic collected $121.3 million for an early global start of $238.3 million.

...

One challenge for Quantumania: Rotten Tomatoes' Tomatometer is presently 48 percent, the second-worst of any film in the Marvel Cinematic Universe behind Eternals (47 percent), and notably behind the Tomatometer rankings for 2012's Ant-Man (83 percent) and 2015's Ant-Man and the Wasp (87 percent).

Audiences are also less enthusiastic. Moviegoers gave the film a B CinemaScore, compared to A for the first Ant-Man and A- for the second.
 
Just came back, and I thought it was pretty good. Majors was okay, but I don't see him carrying the entire MCU as so many are treating him as doing, especially after THAT scene. Suprisingly topical at some points, with Cassie getting arrested during a protest for shrinking cop squad cars who were evicting a homeless camp from a SF park due to the Blip making rental prices even worse than in RL.

Or when Hank discovers his experimental ant colony due to time dilation in the Quantum Realm created a Class II Civilization on the Kardashev scale
Hank Pym: I know socialism is a charged word, but...

How would rental prices get worse because of the Blip? Or did the real estate speculation only got worse as the surviving billionaires bought the homes and jacked the prices because lack of competition?
 
How would rental prices get worse because of the Blip? Or did the real estate speculation only got worse as the surviving billionaires bought the homes and jacked the prices because lack of competition?
People lost jobs due to being away for five years and couldn't get them back again once they returned as the jobs simply didn't exist anymore. That said, it doesn't help that the MCU doesn't want to seem too different to our world despite the Blip and its counter logically requiring huge shifts in how the world is organized, so there's a rental crisis in Marvel San Fran identical to the rental crisis in our San Fran.
 
People lost jobs due to being away for five years and couldn't get them back again once they returned as the jobs simply didn't exist anymore. That said, it doesn't help that the MCU doesn't want to seem too different to our world despite the Blip and its counter logically requiring huge shifts in how the world is organized, so there's a rental crisis in Marvel San Fran identical to the rental crisis in our San Fran.

Yeah, MCU has been running long enough now that cinema fans are starting to see the limitations that generally plague comic universes in regards to remaining recognizable despite alien invasions, attempted robot apocalypses, alien immigration, and half the planet missing for five years, etc . . .

Edit : IIRC does Schang-chi even mention the blip at all?

I mean, it's obvious just going 'out of sight out of mind' but in theory at least some of these characters didn't exist for five entire years. At least one of the main cast should have been blipped.
 
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I mean, it's obvious just going 'out of sight out of mind' but in theory at least some of these characters didn't exist for five entire years. At least one of the main cast should have been blipped.
The original script of Wakanda Forever was T'Challa trying to come to terms with losing five years and everyone around him having, if not outright moved on, then at least been at peace with him being gone and not coming back.

Except, you know. RIP, Chadwick Boseman. Ryan Coogler was forced into a re-write.
 
I think what I loved the most was how
Kang was actually posed as a threat. You felt that this was someone who was not someone to be messed with and the only way to have actually stopped him was a literal army of giant intelligent ants.

And god, I loved how Henry got his big moment cause of those giant freakin' ants.
 
People lost jobs due to being away for five years and couldn't get them back again once they returned as the jobs simply didn't exist anymore. That said, it doesn't help that the MCU doesn't want to seem too different to our world despite the Blip and its counter logically requiring huge shifts in how the world is organized, so there's a rental crisis in Marvel San Fran identical to the rental crisis in our San Fran.

Then again the Flag Smashers in FatWS also mentioned how some places people had enough with Blip induced repression and rebelled as seen in Europe and other parts of the world where political lines were redrawn from people being tired of the five years of oppression created because half the world disappeared and the surviving politicians attempts to consolidate power and failed.

But how would the ones survived be unable to afford rent either would be the question.
 
The post-Blip world I'm of two minds on. There is a definite point in how making the world similar to ours after all this stuff doesn't really work. But I also think if your story isn't about the Blip, it doesn't have to be? Take world shattering/influencing events like World War II, the Cold War, climate change. If you have a story taking place in a time and place where these things, while happening, are a secondary concerns to the characters involved, they don't have to make it all about it. If there a highschool romantic comedy taking place in 60s London, I don't need the characters to stop and turn the camera to tell us about what living under the threat of nuclear annihilation is like, unless it's specifically story relevant.

Anyway, I watched the movie and it was good! Like, it's not the best MCU movie, but the reviews giving it close to 50% are bonkers, I was entertained and had a good time. It may be a question of CGI but I have never been the best at seeing bad ones unless it's really obvious.

Jonathan Majors basically stole every scene he was in. Kang acts like he forces himself to be calm and polite, but his veneer is thin and he is always two seconds away from just beating someone to death. Scott wondering if Kang truly died and if he didn't doom the universe before forcefully convincing himself that everything is fine in the ending was extremely funny, and I also didn't expect Loki and Mobius of all people in the post-credit scene, watching (the original?) Kang/Victor Timely in Victorian England.

Besides him, the movie also served as an introduction of Cassie as a character. You get a sense of what she's like and I found it endearing, especially wanting to help the little guy on the regular instead of only saving the world in big crises (and being ACAB). I found it cute how she refers to Hank and Janet as her grandparents and it's clear it's natural and the people involved do see each other as family. Surprised they didn't outright call her Stature but I guess that's for another movie.

MODOK was...I can see what they were going for and it worked somewhat in the movie, but his design kinda oscillated between deliberately uncanny and immersion breaking uncanny depending on the scenes he was in. The close-ups didn't help.

I think my main criticism for now (there may be more once I've let a few days pass to reflect on the film) is Hope. The movie being Ant-Man and the Wasp, not just Anrt-Man, means she should be just as focused on as Scott, but I feel like, unlike the second movie, this film struggles on giving her something to do. She contributes to the plot, don't get me wrong (she saves Scott twice), but other than action setpieces she doesn't have much to go on. She has an arc about her mom keeping secrets from her, and their strained relationship paralleling Cass and Scott, but that arc ends way too fast by the midway point of the movie. It's kind of a shame. At least I like that the movie didn't give the duo relationship troubles and let them be a couple together without forced drama.
Edit : IIRC does Schang-chi even mention the blip at all?
There is a mention of how they live in a world where "half the population can suddenly vanish", and a bulletin board has an ad for post-Blip depression.
 
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The post-Blip world I'm of two minds on. There is a definite point in how making the world similar to ours after all this stuff doesn't really work. But I also think if your story isn't about the Blip, it doesn't have to be? Take world shattering/influencing events like World War II, the Cold War, climate change. If you have a story taking place in a time and place where these things, while happening, are a secondary concerns to the characters involved, they don't have to make it all about it. If there a highschool romantic comedy taking place in 60s London, I don't need the characters to stop and turn the camera to tell us about what living under the threat of nuclear annihilation is like, unless it's specifically story relevant.

Besides him, the movie also served as an introduction of Cassie as a character. You get a sense of what she's like and I found it endearing, especially wanting to help the little guy on the regular instead of only saving the world in big crises (and being ACAB). I found it cute how she refers to Hank and Janet as her grandparents and it's clear it's natural and the people involved do see each other as family. Surprised they didn't outright call her Stature but I guess that's for another movie.
depression.

The Blip has caused a lot of political borders to flip and people like Zemo feel absolutely smug about being part of the elites signing the death of half of the world. Think about how smug he was in prison vs in the movie since it is one of those experience where he felt like he had the power to change the world by orchestrating the event that broke up the Avengers while hiding his elitist rhetoric behind anti super humans. Our reality is a lot more connected than ever and with rising global tensions it makes sense the Blip should also have an effect on society on a day to day basis.

I think we are going to see a bigger focus on the fighting little guy supes as Falcon stepped on the toes of Blip Politicians looking to get elected on hard on refugees caused by the Blip platform as seen with and without the PR machine protecting the heroes anymore. A return to the anti hero sentiment Marvels is sometimes flanderized for.
 
www.hollywoodreporter.com

Box Office: Marvel’s ‘Ant-Man 3’ Gets Mauled by ‘Cocaine Bear,’ Suffers Record 69.7% Drop

'Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania' may have won the weekend with $32.2 million but got badly dinged by 'Cocaine Bear,' which opened to a much better-than-expected $23.1 million for Universal. The faith-based 'Jesus Revolution' also delivered strong numbers.
Ant-Man 3 managed to remain in first place ... but the comic book installment is suffering from negative word-of-mouth. It added $32.2 million from 4,345 venues in its second weekend of release, marking a brutal 69.7% decline from its debut.

Now, Quantumania holds the ignominious distinction as the biggest week-to-week drop in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, including Black Widow (which plunged 67.8% while debuting simultaneously on Disney Plus) and Eternals (which fell 62% after equally bad reviews). Globally, the movie has generated $364 million, including $167 million domestically and $196 million internationally.

The Ant-Man threequel also suffered the worst second-weekend drop of any superhero film opening to $100 million or more. DC's Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice previously sat in the hot seat at 69.1 percent. Among MCU movies in this category, last year's Thor: Love and Thunder saw the biggest decline, or 67.7 percent, after debuting at $144.2 million. Among any film starting off with $100 million or more, the final Harry Potter installment, released in 2011, tops the list of biggest second-weekend drops with a decline of 72 percent, according to Comscore.
 
It was a lot of fun, they did a better job making an epic Ant-Man movie than I'd feared
 
It's the logical conclusion of Honey we quantized ourselves
 
The Blip has caused a lot of political borders to flip and people like Zemo feel absolutely smug about being part of the elites signing the death of half of the world. Think about how smug he was in prison vs in the movie since it is one of those experience where he felt like he had the power to change the world by orchestrating the event that broke up the Avengers while hiding his elitist rhetoric behind anti super humans.
I can't say I'm convinced that Zemo is an hypocrite, or rather, I feel like it's a less interesting view of him? Him having genuinely anti-supe views that aren't diluted by "I will be a supe instead" is way more interesting, hence why smashing the vials in the show was one of his best moments. It's also way funnier to have this villain monofocused and obsessed on this One Thing like a single-issue voter.
 
I can't say I'm convinced that Zemo is an hypocrite, or rather, I feel like it's a less interesting view of him? Him having genuinely anti-supe views that aren't diluted by "I will be a supe instead" is way more interesting, hence why smashing the vials in the show was one of his best moments. It's also way funnier to have this villain monofocused and obsessed on this One Thing like a single-issue voter.
Yeah Zemo being a principled bastard was one of the better parts of Falcon and Winter Soldier. I wonder if they'll bring back his character for something eventually.
 
I can't say I'm convinced that Zemo is an hypocrite, or rather, I feel like it's a less interesting view of him? Him having genuinely anti-supe views that aren't diluted by "I will be a supe instead" is way more interesting, hence why smashing the vials in the show was one of his best moments. It's also way funnier to have this villain monofocused and obsessed on this One Thing like a single-issue voter.

Still it would make sense since if Walker didn't take the serum and killed a man in hot blood and in public. His reputation being destroyed would be the end of his career as a soldier and damned forever to be a shell shocked vet.

Zemo knows the value of position and privilege and isn't called a Baron just for show. He exudes this sense of elitist classism that a super soldier threatens the status quo of because you can't strip a supe of their position and title and they would come crawling begging for mercy. But you destroy a man's career, strip them of their titles and watch as they wither and die
 
Anyway, I watched the movie and it was good! Like, it's not the best MCU movie, but the reviews giving it close to 50% are bonkers, I was entertained and had a good time. It may be a question of CGI but I have never been the best at seeing bad ones unless it's really obvious.

IMO MCU movies have been graded on a curve for a very long time and that seems to have started to wear off with Eternals. We're only going to see more and more of this going forward unless they shake something up. And not just critical reception wise, but box office too (see above re: Ant-Man's recent collapse, its not gonna make a lot, comparatively speaking).

Watching a new Marvel movie after watching something like Puss in Boots 2, Maverick or Avatar 2 feels like moving back in with your parents as an adult.
 
IMO MCU movies have been graded on a curve for a very long time and that seems to have started to wear off with Eternals. We're only going to see more and more of this going forward unless they shake something up. And not just critical reception wise, but box office too (see above re: Ant-Man's recent collapse, its not gonna make a lot, comparatively speaking).

Watching a new Marvel movie after watching something like Puss in Boots 2, Maverick or Avatar 2 feels like moving back in with your parents as an adult.

I think the novelty of the shared universe is just starting to wear thin for some people, the quality is pretty consistent across the whole series.

Edit: unrelatedly.

www.engadget.com

‘Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania’ broke me | Engadget

‘Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania’ is a VFX mess..

This

With Quantumania, there's no clear sense of why that sub-atomic universe is special, or why Kang may want to rule it. We might as well be watching a lesser Star Wars movie.

Seems like a pretty lazy criticism. Like, they tell you this information directly in the movie, a significant portion of the plot hinges on it. You could maybe argue that the stakes don't have emotional impact or the situation doesn't make sense or something, but you can't argue that it isn't clear.
 
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I think the basic issue is that Infinity War/Endgame was a spectacular but fatiguing capstone on everything that came before. Like, I was happy to sit through it because its length and grandiosity felt justified. But afterwards I was done. It was a conclusion with a real sense of finality. I wasn't left excited to see what Disney would do next, I was satisfied with the ending. That's not to say the MCU should have actually just stopped there, but there was no momentum and energy to justify the deluge of not just movies but television series that followed. My exhaustion when Endgame was done came with satisfaction. My exhaustion when Moon Knight, Ms. Marvel and She-Hulk all dropped over five months and I still hadn't finished Hawkeye came with ambivalence.

And to make matters worse, none of the new movies in the 'Multiverse Saga' have really brought something tonally new to the table. Everything feels like an attempt to recreate what was impressive and exciting before. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with casual goofball comedy or 'weightless' CGI vistas, but these are particular aesthetic choices that are wearing very thin and the franchise needs to be able to commit to other styles enough to actually generate excitement again. Multiverse of Madness was almost that, but it felt like Raimi had to eat his vegetables before he could do his thing. I don't want to go to the movies and feel like I'm watching an artist do chores.
 
I think that Disney flogging the shit out of their VFX contractors is actually leading to worse and sloppier CGI.
 
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