We got no good solutions coming up... but hey, I don't think we are the only player on the block. If what I've read is right, Britain is not currently at war with Germany, meaning that German colonies are still German. I'd wager my right hand that Germany is looking to gobble up some chinese clay to add to their empire. Maybe Britain as well. Don't know much about America, though. We only really got foreign territories during the Spanish-American war, and even then that was bescuse the spanish "supposedly" blew up the Maine. Course, I could be wrong. And I am leaving out Alaska.
Still, before we decide on a course of action, lets see what the colonial powers will do.
Remember that we are just a general, not the people running the country. We will do what our superiors tell us to do and they will be told what to do by the civilian government. We won't be the ones deciding on a course of action.
You take a moment to sip the tea in your mug as you read the report from Ikeda. The green tea soothes you, but can't stop the feeling of triumph from welling up in your chest. Truly, victory was a sweetener of the best sort. The success of the first week of the month had continued in what was an almost outrageous victory, capturing of a large portion of the Chinese IVth army in a pincer manoeuvre, 90,000 Chinese soldiers were surrounded on the 17th, and by the 22nd, after their third breakout attempt failed, the remaining 35,000 surrendered. Not to say that things had gone entirely smoothly, the Fourth had launched three separate, and very costly attacks at the flank of the Chinese IVth Army before breaking through when the Second managed to continue their offensive, hitting the Chinese fighting the Fourth from the south.
The Fifth had broken the long-unchallenged line defending Mukden, and the Imperial guard had quickly crushed any opposition in their path. As ever, nothing could go entirely without hiccups, and the Fifth's armoured cars had walked into an ambush and been swarmed by Militia units during one of their scouting trips, and the Imperial Guard themselves had been slowed down significantly by Chinese bombing runs, who in turn were hindered by accurate, even if not deadly, anti-air guns. Reports weren't all that clear on what exactly was going on, but it was clearly not in your favour. The Imperial Guard was on its way to reinforce them, but was still some 50km out. Overall though, you rated the offensive of the past two weeks as the most successful one yet.
The newspapers apparently agreed with your assessment, the Japan Times had decided to nickname you "the Tiger in Korea", and the Asahi Shimbun, your newspaper of choice and currently the largest one in Japan, had taken the name and ran with it. Even the Yomiuri Shimbun, usually one of your biggest critics, had eventually been forced to follow along, after facing heavy criticism by letter from its patriotic readers for refusing to honour a general appropriately.
At this point, the political climate was also such that the two right-wing parties, the Seiyukai, and its smaller, far-right off-shoot, the True Seiyu, were on increasingly bad terms as the far-right accused the centre-right of unpatriotic behaviour, and the centre-right accused the far-right of disloyalty to the Emperor and irrationality. The Seiyukai, despite being almost twice as large as the True Seiyu, were riven by factionalism and currently unable to challenge the ruling party, the Kenseikai, who had been increasingly gaining popularity on the back of a successful defensive war.
The political situation wasn't something you kept an eye on for fun, rather, it was a tedious and draining part of your job description, and the two letters from Hiiragi and Yoshihito last week were inquisitive about your thoughts on the Korean front. You had, over the past week, suspected that this was a result of feelers being sent out by Yuan Shikai, and earlier today, your suspicious were confirmed. The Fieldmarshal is coming to Korea by noon, you are informed, and you scramble to make sure the reports are ready.
"Hirano! Good to see you again!"
The Fieldmarshal is in a good mood, and as soon as you're in private, he greets you informally, and you offer him a bit of strong drink. He jovially accepts the sake and small talks for a few minutes, before a pleasant pause in the conversation sets in. After a short while, with the sake finished, he leans forward in his chair and takes out a map of the frontline from a breast pocket and spreads it out on your desk.
"Hirano," he begins, slowly, with a serious tone, "the Chinese front is collapsing. You know it, I know it, and Yuan Shikai knows it. Even the peasants in Xiamen knows it. Yuan is an ambitious, cunning and charismatic man, but he's not quite capable of keeping China stable through the storm she's going through now.
"The truth of the matter is, the government is asking me to make this war a short one, but they will accept no less than victory. They don't want to be spending money and lives on this, and to be honest, neither am I. We can't really push more men to the front, because our backline logistics just aren't big enough where they need to be. We're running short on heavy artillery munitions and people with the skills to man them, and the same is true for many other branches. We would have to expand the draft, and the government isn't particularly fond of that. That, and Yuan's government has also inquired about a peace, they're not eager to bite the lemon, but frankly, China's descending into chaos as we speak. Likewise, Sun Yatsen has asked that to the greatest extent possible, we limit our fighting to prevent millions dying in the near future."
The Fieldmarshal pauses, taking a cigar out from a small case, clipping it, and then lighting it with a match.
"Most of the country, apart from Nanking, Peking and Manchuria, is currently openly revolting against both the Republican and Imperial leadership's protection and active employment of Manchus. In essence, this Four Stripe Movement has hijacked Sun Yatsen's republicans and are pushing for an ethnic cleansing of China, where they do not consider the Manchu Chinese.
"A major issue is that the Manchu have nowhere to go. Manchuria is considered Chinese, but not the Manchu. It's an absurd contradiction, but the majority population in Manchuria is Han, not Manchu.
"As you may well have realised by now, I am here because you are the general on the ground with the best knowledge of the situation here in Korea, and in Manchuria. My question to you is, as we head to the negotiating table, do you have any suggestions or ideas you want me to bring up? I will admit to having run quite out of ideas, but Sun Yatsen and Yuan are both willing to cede Sinkiang, and Mongolia, though neither want to cede inner Mongolia or Tibet. Likewise, they are not keen on ceding Manchuria, but both agree that the Manchu need some kind of protection."
He leans back again and takes another puff of his cigar, letting you mull over the information. Then, having let the information sink in for a few seconds, he outlines the positions of the internal factions. The Ultra-Reactionary True Seiyu want to annex all of Manchuria, leaving the border at Beijing, and install a puppet government in the south and north, a South-North-Manchuria triple split where the border between south and north is at Yangtze, under either Sun Yatsen or Yuan Shikai, whoever bids highest. The Seiyukai Centre-Right/Market Liberals, are pushing for a pro-business approach, arguing that taking little territory and extracting large future payments is the way to go. The Kenseikai, the Centre-Left/Social-Democrats favours a unification, a united China where Yuan Shikai is either deposed or a figurehead. All of the factions favour independent Sinkiang, Tibet and Mongolia.
Various other proposals are also on the table, such as the ambitious plan proposed by a Kenseikai MP to let Korea take a large share of Manchuria, or the almost reckless plan favoured by some of the True Seiyu to demand an unconditional surrender and then figure out the peace when China is well and truly beaten.
"Your thoughts, Hirano?"
[X] Side with the Kenseikai Social Democrats, China is to remain (relatively) whole.
[X] Side with the Seiyukai Market Liberals, Japan doesn't need more territory, but she does need help paying back her war debts.
[X] Side with the True Seiyu, partition China and take large swathes for Japan!
[X] Write-in
NOTE: Remember, this is you giving advice to the government, they may or may not take it (there will be rolls), and the two Chinese factions may or may not accept the offer. This turn will not feature any combat.
If the war continues, the combat turns will resume. The Four Stripe Movement is currently above your paygrade. You do not get a say there.
It's best if we don't take any land but instead seek privileges within China for us and our Korean friends. I doubt the Chinese dynasty have much cash in their vaults. Have to admit it might be a very long shot as this suggestion doesn't appeal to our immediate audience and will take a while to pay off.
Less meme-y though, I seriously see this as the only way for the Manchus to survive as a distinct ethnic group. With the Four-Stripes in power no amount of external pressures and minority protection treaties will save the Manchus from getting ethnically cleansed. Placing them under the aegis of the Koreans who don't have the demographic weight of the Han Chinese, who have a coherent nationalist mythos to keep them standing against Chinese revanchism, who have a modern military, and who are dependent on Japanese good-will for their modernization, economic growth, and national security, will ensure that the Manchus survive into modernity.
EDIT: Side with the Kenseikai Social Democrats, China is to remain (relatively) whole.
-Leaves Manchus at the mercy of the Han Chinese, which means total ethnic annihilation.
Side with the Seiyukai Market Liberals, Japan doesn't need more territory, but she does need help paying back her war debts.
-Unequal Treaties Mk.II. Also injects investment money into China, helping it recover just in time to fight Japan again.
Side with the True Seiyu, partition China and take large swathes for Japan!
-Crazy
The problem with long term payments from the Chinese government is the lack of a Chinese government in the long term.
Maybe give some small pieces of pie to the European pig-dogs, to make whatever the Japanese take more internationally palatable. It would look good if we propose something that looks a little like a modern UN peacekeeping action, but in reality is more like a miniature partition of Poland.
[x] Write-in: Manchu people will be a protectorate state (lower 1/3rd of Manchuria) under Korea, whom also had suffered under Han's imperialism. Japan and Korea will be given special privileges within China for compensation of this defensive war.
My preferred vote, a buffer state where people will be hard pressed to point the finger at us when next war starts.
Approval vote, just in case.
[X] Side with the Kenseikai Social Democrats, China is to remain (relatively) whole.
[X] Side with the Seiyukai Market Liberals, Japan doesn't need more territory, but she does need help paying back her war debts.
[X] Side with the Kenseikai Social Democrats, China is to remain (relatively) whole.
[X] Side with the Seiyukai Market Liberals, Japan doesn't need more territory, but she does need help paying back her war debts.
[X] Side with the Seiyukai Market Liberals, Japan doesn't need more territory, but she does need help paying back her war debts.
To be honest, my nationality as an American may be influencing my vote... I don't want Japan bombing Pearl, alright? I think this will keep her from going more tradey and not war-like.
I feel i ought to pull up some discord messages and discussions. Note unless it's WOG by QM it's voter's discussion and interpretations.
On topic of Seiyukai Market Liberals aim:
GM Discord said:
That's not "beat the money out of their warchest", that's "we want this business here, and that business there..."
"and also, all roads are to be built by Japanese companies"
Hmm... if all the Manchu end up in Korea, they'll be just under 30% of the pop
There's always pop exchange?
Yes, this is not a good situation. And well, Sturmi, I don't imagine the Manchu are particularly keen to stay in the south
I must seriously implore all voters to consider gravity of this vote and avoid going for the "ALL CLAY" option. Machu people are seriously looking at ethic cleansing and we can suggest to the government of forming a protectorate that allows some of our wants will saving people.
I find the Seiyukai option wishy washy, since it doesn't solve anything. It leaves the Manchus to get killed off, it keeps the ultranationalist China more united, injects Japanese capitalist investment money into China, and makes the Chinese hate the Japanese regardless since it looks exactly like a Western Unequal Treaty. Please don't vote for this non-compromise.
[x] Write-in: Manchu people will be a protectorate state (lower 1/3rd of Manchuria) under Korea, whom also had suffered under Han's imperialism. Japan and Korea will be given special privileges within China for compensation of this defensive war.
War is inevitable one way or the other. This China is turning fascist shades of ultranationalist. There's very little in the way of compromise to be made here, since nothing will sate them short of giving them everything. We can't give them that since it includes the death of the Manchus.
[x] Write-in: Manchu people will be a protectorate state (lower 1/3rd of Manchuria) under Korea, whom also had suffered under Han's imperialism. Japan and Korea will be given special privileges within China for compensation of this defensive war.
The Four Stripes aren't so much in power (or, indeed, a unitary entity) as they're making sure no one else is properly in power. They're dangerous, numerous and disruptive, but they have no leadership to coalesce around (yet).
The Four Stripes aren't so much in power (or, indeed, a unitary entity) as they're making sure no one else is properly in power. They're dangerous, numerous and disruptive, but they have no leadership to coalesce around (yet).
Potato potato. As long as they remain mainstream in Chinese consciousness, whatever governments pretends to have legitimacy will have to dance to their tunes or else risk more uprisings. Political fiction to preserve the Manchus won't remain fiction forever, and eventually those Four Stripes will grow up to become the government. And then...
Well, we need to get something out of this war, and I don't think China even has the capital to make reparations with, so Manchuria is clearly going to be our prize. While OTL Japan hugely benefitted from creating Manchuko - from an economic sense, at least - we're all not enthusiastic about backing the Ultra-Nationalists, to put it mildly.
T
The compromise seems to be giving Manchuria to Korea, which while our satalite state, does have a better legitimate claim, so it wouldn't be blatantly rampant imperialism, and the Manchu crisis gives us even more room to work with. The question is whether we go full GREATER KOREA (which I assume would mean Japan stepping in and effectively ruling the land because Korea has little ability to actually pacify or govern something of that magnitude) or a relatively 'tamer' Manchu puppet state, which would own the bottom third (?) of Manchuria. I'm not totally sure how that'd work or whether it's even a better idea, honestly.
Well, we need to get something out of this war, and I don't think China even has the capital to make reparations with, so Manchuria is clearly going to be our prize. While OTL Japan hugely benefitted from creating Manchuko - from an economic sense, at least - we're all not enthusiastic about backing the Ultra-Nationalists, to say the least.
T
The compromise seems to be giving Manchuria to Korea, which while our satalite state, does have a better legitimate claim, so it wouldn't be blatantly rampant imperialism, and the Manchu crisis gives us even more room to work with. The question is whether we go full GREATER KOREA (which I assume would mean Japan stepping in and effectively ruling the land because Korea has little ability to actually pacify or govern something of that magnitude) or a relatively 'tamer' Manchu puppet state, which would own the bottom third (?) of Manchuria. I'm not totally sure how that'd work or whether it's even a better idea, honestly.
Considering the whole Manchuria option indicated having Korea consume a landmass 6x their size and without verbiage about machu people, i doubt it will end well. The protectorate option on the other hand specifically made it so Machu people are governing which means the people avoids knifes and will bring with them the actual people who know how to govern (there's a lot of Machu people in power remember). Obviously both options does have this and that draw back and depends on how open our own government is to the ideas(s).
