It could be argued that Dragon is important enough that our current Motivation works.
I'd also like to buy everything available, if there's enough XP for it.
Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 13: Myopic Maker Mistakenly Mobilizes Mega-Marrow
- Thread starter Gromweld
- Start date
It could be argued that Dragon is important enough that our current Motivation works.
I'd also like to buy everything available, if there's enough XP for it.
That hypothesis is disproved by the lack of any direct strikes at us while he had us away from backup.
I don't know what his game is, but it isn't that.
Unless you're suggesting that he was unable to take aim at us?
We are going to have to prioritize.
Much as I would like to, we cannot go hunting Saint; he remains a peripheral concern.
Possibly something we can hand off to someone else, while providing Thinker support; maybe Colin, when he gets in and is recovered.
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That reminds me. Why have we not been making any attempt to retrieve our 5 dot familiar?
We don't know where to look.
An APB is almost certainly out, but without information...
More or less. We caught the tail end of the fight. Could be Saint just couldn't get the momentum to break through Accord's crew and Dragon, so he took what he could.
Then we should purchase specialties relevant to turning it against Saint.
It is surely worthwhile to destroy Saint at the cost of a few specialties; how much more worthwhile when we can take specialties in information warfare, covert operations, maintaining public relations, or opposing Tinkertech - So many things we can wield against Saint, we can wield also against others.
I am not saying there is a threshold of 'how badass we need to be to take out Saint.' I am saying that we are Alchemical, and even if we lack a Vats complex, our best response to a clear threat is to optimize to take it out. The tools we use against Saint will serve us also against the Endbringers and the Entities, chosen carefully, and they will certainly serve us against the Gremlins that we hope to one day be close enough to victory to fight.
Jack Slash is small and pitiable in comparison to Saint. Dragon's suits were WINNING against the Slaughterhouse 9000, given full range to act, until Saint killed her. We have seen it in Canon, and we can see it again: A less-fettered Dragon can take down the Slaughterhouse 9000. A less-fettered Dragon could take down the Slaughterhouse 9. We need only free her from Saint, and join our tools with hers.
Beyond that, Jack Slash denied such powerful tools and responses is a threat to cities at his highest levels. Saint is a threat, as we have seen, to continents, by denying the world its Greatest Tinker - and by opposing also us, the Chosen of Autochthon.
I am of the very certain opinion that Saint must die.
It is surely worthwhile to destroy Saint at the cost of a few specialties; how much more worthwhile when we can take specialties in information warfare, covert operations, maintaining public relations, or opposing Tinkertech - So many things we can wield against Saint, we can wield also against others.
I am not saying there is a threshold of 'how badass we need to be to take out Saint.' I am saying that we are Alchemical, and even if we lack a Vats complex, our best response to a clear threat is to optimize to take it out. The tools we use against Saint will serve us also against the Endbringers and the Entities, chosen carefully, and they will certainly serve us against the Gremlins that we hope to one day be close enough to victory to fight.
Jack Slash is small and pitiable in comparison to Saint. Dragon's suits were WINNING against the Slaughterhouse 9000, given full range to act, until Saint killed her. We have seen it in Canon, and we can see it again: A less-fettered Dragon can take down the Slaughterhouse 9000. A less-fettered Dragon could take down the Slaughterhouse 9. We need only free her from Saint, and join our tools with hers.
Beyond that, Jack Slash denied such powerful tools and responses is a threat to cities at his highest levels. Saint is a threat, as we have seen, to continents, by denying the world its Greatest Tinker - and by opposing also us, the Chosen of Autochthon.
I am of the very certain opinion that Saint must die.
Couldn't we track his orbital trajectory or something? Ugh, been too long since I read that section of the game.
Also wasn't he connected to us by some sort of essence pipeline?
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Our attunement to Iris broke, I believe.
(Attunement is a metaphysical connection with specific meanings from Exalted, usually applied to Artifacts but also applying to Familiars. It is a little bit like making it so that Iris is connected to our soul and being, and is not simply a matter of committed Essence - this is why Iris could activate on his own, yet we had not the motes to extrude him on our own.)
Recovering Iris would be good. I think that, given the choice, Dragon's aid in recovering Iris will be more potent than Iris's aid in saving Dragon, and that both are dangerously urgent concerns. Saint should die first - but if the Slaughterhouse 9 come to town, then our short-term goals in dealing with Jack Slash and his crew should be to recover Iris. Pinning down the Slaughterhouse 9 is very difficult; recovering Iris is difficult but much more doable.
I am still of the opinion that we should pursue Saint's death before we bother with pursuing the S9, for the reasons I stated - both are equally, pressingly urgent, Dragon is more helpful against the S9 than Iris will be against Saint, and Jack Slash is less of a threat to the world than the death of Dragon is.
(Attunement is a metaphysical connection with specific meanings from Exalted, usually applied to Artifacts but also applying to Familiars. It is a little bit like making it so that Iris is connected to our soul and being, and is not simply a matter of committed Essence - this is why Iris could activate on his own, yet we had not the motes to extrude him on our own.)
Recovering Iris would be good. I think that, given the choice, Dragon's aid in recovering Iris will be more potent than Iris's aid in saving Dragon, and that both are dangerously urgent concerns. Saint should die first - but if the Slaughterhouse 9 come to town, then our short-term goals in dealing with Jack Slash and his crew should be to recover Iris. Pinning down the Slaughterhouse 9 is very difficult; recovering Iris is difficult but much more doable.
I am still of the opinion that we should pursue Saint's death before we bother with pursuing the S9, for the reasons I stated - both are equally, pressingly urgent, Dragon is more helpful against the S9 than Iris will be against Saint, and Jack Slash is less of a threat to the world than the death of Dragon is.
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The Winged Menace caught him.
On another note, I'm a little sad that the intimacies for AM and MM were lost.
Our armor was out of power then.
Dragon tried to track it, but couldn't confirm.
Maybe.
No proof though, unless we ask Accord; Dragon won't remember, due to losing the suit.
Canon Jack Slash set off the apocalypse.
Bonesaw created the Slaughterhouse 9000, and is a walking end of the world scenario.
Do NOT underestimate either.
Canon Jack Slash had the chance to set off the apocalypse because Dragon was prevented from stopping him.
Bonesaw created the Slaughterhouse 9000 only because of Dinah's prophecies.
If Saint is gone, neither are available. I underestimate neither.
I simply understand that Dragon is a greater force for good and for humanity than Jack Slash and his Slaughterhouse 9, or even 9000, are for evil or against humanity. If Saint is unable to kill Dragon, then we have so much more ability to stop Jack Slash than Jack Slash has to act.
With Dragon proving herself able and willing to support us in Alchemical matters, this is only more true, not less.
If they react to Taylor-as-Alchemical, then our need for Dragon only increases, as one of the few who fully support us who have great power to do so... and as a powerful player in her own right.
Stopping Saint is a pre-requisite to effectively stopping Jack Slash, and Dragon - especially, but NOT ONLY, with her fetters removed by Armsmaster or Defiant - is so great a force for good that she makes stopping Jack Slash near-guaranteed.
Bonesaw created the Slaughterhouse 9000 only because of Dinah's prophecies.
If Saint is gone, neither are available. I underestimate neither.
I simply understand that Dragon is a greater force for good and for humanity than Jack Slash and his Slaughterhouse 9, or even 9000, are for evil or against humanity. If Saint is unable to kill Dragon, then we have so much more ability to stop Jack Slash than Jack Slash has to act.
With Dragon proving herself able and willing to support us in Alchemical matters, this is only more true, not less.
If they react to Taylor-as-Alchemical, then our need for Dragon only increases, as one of the few who fully support us who have great power to do so... and as a powerful player in her own right.
Stopping Saint is a pre-requisite to effectively stopping Jack Slash, and Dragon - especially, but NOT ONLY, with her fetters removed by Armsmaster or Defiant - is so great a force for good that she makes stopping Jack Slash near-guaranteed.
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Why did it break?
Giygas
Cutest Sawk i could find. Lucario is a nice extra.
If i remember well, He was too far from us.
Precognition does not cause the future; it only predicts it.
Because if it did cause the future, then there is no way Dragon could have stopped him.
Quit underestimating Kakuzu; the S9 is not an S-class threat for nothing.
I consider Dragon an ally and friend, an important one.
But that is quite different from dropping everything we are doing to track down Geoff Pellick.
There is no single deus ex machina in this game.
Besides.
We are Enduring Order Administrator; we administrate.
Sic someone else on the problem; maybe Colin, or Trace.
Or hire an outside agent to look into it; Mastermind is a Thinker.
Distance.
I suspect distance and lack of contact. Normal attunements require regular reinforcement, and operate on a somewhat symbolic logic; being thrown away from us could well create such problems.
You are right, however, that it is odd that Iris's attunement might function in such a way. Distance requirements are nonstandard in Essence Physics. I suspect it is that he was too far from Essence itself, and thus was not able to keep up the attunement-pattern 'on his own' so to speak.
Regardless, I still think Saint should die before we worry about Iris, and I am prepared to accept suggestions in order to better fund that venture with XP. Any suggestions for what to write?
In response to precognition not altering the future - Dinah's predictions can change, radically, when Coil or anyone else starts including knowledge of them in their planning - in other cases, or when they cannot meaningfully include knowledge of them, Dinah's predictions ALREADY include their knowledge or lack thereof. Precogs paint the future, but the future can be reacted to or changed in response to what they show. There are a thousand paths; having a map does not change what the paths are, but it does change which path we take.
You are right, however, that it is odd that Iris's attunement might function in such a way. Distance requirements are nonstandard in Essence Physics. I suspect it is that he was too far from Essence itself, and thus was not able to keep up the attunement-pattern 'on his own' so to speak.
Regardless, I still think Saint should die before we worry about Iris, and I am prepared to accept suggestions in order to better fund that venture with XP. Any suggestions for what to write?
In response to precognition not altering the future - Dinah's predictions can change, radically, when Coil or anyone else starts including knowledge of them in their planning - in other cases, or when they cannot meaningfully include knowledge of them, Dinah's predictions ALREADY include their knowledge or lack thereof. Precogs paint the future, but the future can be reacted to or changed in response to what they show. There are a thousand paths; having a map does not change what the paths are, but it does change which path we take.
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When we get Iris back I recommend we attach a robust tracking device so we don't have to deal with this sort of embarrassment again. (Not even being able to find our own familiar. Like seriously. 
)
)Think you misunderstood Dawn here. The only reason the S9 did what they did in canon is because they learnt of Dinah's prophecy.
Omake Suggestion: Taylor actually gets sent to a asylum.
*considers...*
Hmmm... Interesting on its own merits, and a great chance to include Yamada, who is also great... I like that suggestion.
By 'gets sent to', do you mean 'arrives there' or 'is told to go there'?
No, no, I'll have her actually in psychological care, certainly.
I am also open to more suggestions! Killing Saint is a better reason than most to start writing a little more seriously.
Hmmm... Interesting on its own merits, and a great chance to include Yamada, who is also great... I like that suggestion.
By 'gets sent to', do you mean 'arrives there' or 'is told to go there'?
No, no, I'll have her actually in psychological care, certainly.
I am also open to more suggestions! Killing Saint is a better reason than most to start writing a little more seriously.
Damn, we lost the Armsmaster/MM/Piggot intimacies. That makes me sad.
We should not concentrate on Saint. While he has the potantial to be a problem, he IS a major problem to others, like Armsmaster, Dragon, the Guild etc. We should support them in their quest to slay him, but we have our own responsibilities for now. Speccing up against Saint seems like a waste of resources, we should point others at him for now.
We should not concentrate on Saint. While he has the potantial to be a problem, he IS a major problem to others, like Armsmaster, Dragon, the Guild etc. We should support them in their quest to slay him, but we have our own responsibilities for now. Speccing up against Saint seems like a waste of resources, we should point others at him for now.
They are not acting to slay him. Dragon cannot. The Guild lacks authority (because the PRT is there.)
The PRT, as we found out in canon, has a few figures that protect him.
We are Exalted. We should take up the quest they should be doing, and do it. We should show them that it can be done, that there is hope, and we should join our forces to theirs.
As for Accord... I think the man is a poor Exaltation candidate, but if we can somehow communicate to Autochthon, "THIS MAN NEEDS AN EMPATHY SIMULATION ENGINE BADLY" then it could turn out alright.
Now, if we can use our time working with him to convince him to raise him Compassion on his own - perhaps by showing how our Compassion is not wholly incompatible with Clarity... Then, then he could be a fine candidate indeed.
But in the meantime, he's got the ability and the reason to help us kill Saint, and I like that. If we can shape him into a Hero worthy of Orichalcum? Then that is a wonderful, wonderful bonus. I honestly think that Accord-with-about-two-more-dots-of-Compassion might be our best Orichalcum candidate. So let's get him on board, hmm?
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It amuses me how meta everyone's being. We have an IC reason to go after Saint, but everyone's all concentrating on the group we've only heard of like twice before now. On the other hand, we do have WoG they're about to wreck all of our shit, but putting literally anyone else on Saint is going to fail. Hell, we'll probably fail. What all of you seem to not understand is that Dragon's going to be intimately involved in any manhunt, and therefore Saint will know exactly what we're trying. Exactly. Literally every spoken and written word that Dragon will be able to see, we might as well be priority mailing him. If you don't think that's a problem, you're delusional.
Yeah no
That's a dreadfully short-sighted suggestion.
Contracting a hit gives the hitter blackmail material.
Nor does it account for Pellick having a fail-deadly contingency in the event of his death.
And that does not include the possibility that Accord might find it more efficient to take control of Ascalon himself, should he capture it.
And the idea that Autochthon will act as a moderating influence is freaking hilarious.
Unintended consequences are very much a thing here.