Ahsoka

Has Dave Filoni talked about Ahsoka being influenced by Japanese films which aren't samurai movies? Someone insisted to me that it is and I was being reductive in saying it was just borrowing frames from samurai films, but I, ah, haven't seen enough non-samurai and non-animated films from Japan to assess this.

Can anyone with more knowledge advise on this? Also, are samurai cinema and anime that divorced from the rest of Japanese cinema?
Were they any more specific on exactly what those influences were? It's kind of hard to make a comparison to an entire nation's cinematic output. Shin Godzilla is a very different movie to Ichi the Killer.
 
Were they any more specific on exactly what those influences were? It's kind of hard to make a comparison to an entire nation's cinematic output. Shin Godzilla is a very different movie to Ichi the Killer.
Nope. Tbh if they lifted anything from Shin Godzilla, I did not catch it. Or Minus One for that matter.

In all honesty, any references besides Sanjuro and maybe Kagamusha were lost on me, if they were there.

I'm a little sceptical about this premise (especially as I went in with a dozen samurai movies under my belt and found only crumbs in reference terms) if truth be told, especially as it would imply that samurai films are aesthetically totally divorced from the rest of the nation's oeuvre.
 
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I mean all media with jedi are going to have some samurai film (especially kurasowa) influence, since that was essentially the core influence behind the very concept of jedi.
 
I mean all media with jedi are going to have some samurai film (especially kurasowa) influence, since that was essentially the core influence behind the very concept of jedi.
I know, but I was told that the influence is from a bunch of Japanese movies beyond samurai movies, and that my watching a dozen or so samurai movies wasn't enough to qualify me to comment on its aesthetics. So... what is this Japanese aesthetic which is absent from samurai movies (and I guess also the animation from Japan which I've watched) but which pervades and defines the look of Ahsoka?
 
This is less in terms of what's onscreen and more how it's shot (though that's true). Which is where I was stumped, because to me, it just looks and feels the same as Mando.
I mean, it was made using The Volume, so the ways that it could be shot were limited. Which doesn't feel especially like my experiences with Japanese cinema, unless they're thinking of The Volume as the modern equivalent of those model cities and landscapes that kaiju fight on.

If they can't name a film or director or style or something that it's supposed to be influenced by beyond "vaguely Japanese," then it kind of sounds like they're just full of shit to me.
 
I mean, it was made using The Volume, so the ways that it could be shot were limited. Which doesn't feel especially like my experiences with Japanese cinema, unless they're thinking of The Volume as the modern equivalent of those model cities and landscapes that kaiju fight on.

If they can't name a film or director or style or something that it's supposed to be influenced by beyond "vaguely Japanese," then it kind of sounds like they're just full of shit to me.
I'm trying to extend the benefit of the doubt (they did tell me I hadn't seen any Japanese cinema so I could talk) but yeah, lacking specifics isn't all that handy.

Is there a distinct Japanese genre that maps onto the Ahsoka show's story at all? Or particular characters? Maybe stuff about the aftermath of WW2, relating to Sabine? Admittedly I'm not sure how that would actually relate to the Rebels, who after all had successfully fought a brutal imperialist regime.
 
Is there a distinct Japanese genre that maps onto the Ahsoka show's story at all?
I mean, the Kurosawa samurai film influences are obvious (and present in Star Wars right from its inception: ANH copied the shot of the severed arm from the cantina straight from Kurosawa's Yojimbo), but other than that, I'm not sure if there's something that's specific to Japanese cinema. Japan tells stories in many of the same genres that we do, like space opera. The little turtle dudes and the space whales feel like creatures that we might see in a Miyazaki film, I suppose. Baylan Skoll's role as an old warrior without purpose who now loyally serves an evil master is kind of reminiscent of a common archetype from a lot of samurai stories or anime, but it's not an uncommon character type in Western works either.

Again, it would help if they gave some specifics. It's really the responsibility of the person making the claim to supply some examples to support their own argument, to be frank.
 
I mean, the Kurosawa samurai film influences are obvious (and present in Star Wars right from its inception: ANH copied the shot of the severed arm from the cantina straight from Kurosawa's Yojimbo), but other than that, I'm not sure if there's something that's specific to Japanese cinema. Japan tells stories in many of the same genres that we do, like space opera. The little turtle dudes and the space whales feel like creatures that we might see in a Miyazaki film, I suppose. Baylan Skoll's role as an old warrior without purpose who now loyally serves an evil master is kind of reminiscent of a common archetype from a lot of samurai stories or anime, but it's not an uncommon character type in Western works either.

Again, it would help if they gave some specifics. It's really the responsibility of the person making the claim to supply some examples to support their own argument, to be frank.
Have now been told "Filoni hasn't specified any but the influence is definitely apparent", so... right.

Tbh even with what you've mentioned above, that's narrative elements rather than the aesthetics of how the show was shot and that's where I just don't see any meaningful difference with The Mandalorian.
 
Tbh even with what you've mentioned above, that's narrative elements rather than the aesthetics of how the show was shot and that's where I just don't see any meaningful difference with The Mandalorian.
So, I'm not a cinematographer and it's also been a year and a half since I saw the show, so I didn't notice or don't remember anything particularly distinctive about how it was shot. Don't recall any "Oh, that's such a great shot!" moments like in Andor. If this person wants to argue that, then they should make that argument themselves and not expect you to make it for them. Maybe actually name some shots that they think are particularly interesting or impressive or show a Japanese influence?
 
So, I'm not a cinematographer and it's also been a year and a half since I saw the show, so I didn't notice or don't remember anything particularly distinctive about how it was shot. Don't recall any "Oh, that's such a great shot!" moments like in Andor. If this person wants to argue that, then they should make that argument themselves and not expect you to make it for them. Maybe actually name some shots that they think are particularly interesting or impressive or show a Japanese influence?
They've come back and said it's about what's onscreen (so Ghibli-looking critters, the Purgill being like Kaiju. So not actually any formal differences.

And I have to say on a script level, I can't say this had any of the sense of magic or strangeness which a Ghibli film typically supplies. Which the show sorely lacked imo.
 
They've come back and said it's about what's onscreen (so Ghibli-looking critters, the Purgill being like Kaiju. So not actually any formal differences.

And I have to say on a script level, I can't say this had any of the sense of magic or strangeness which a Ghibli film typically supplies. Which the show sorely lacked imo.
There is some of that Ghibli whimsy, at least with the little dudes. I could certainly call it an influence, even though they're not similar in tone overall. Maybe Season 2 will end with Baylan angering a nature deity and getting destroyed for his hubris like Princess Mononoke? Filoni previously worked on Avatar: The Last Airbender which had quite a bit of influence from anime in general and Ghibli in particular and basically ended their first season the same way, so I'm sure he's familiar with it.

Purgil = kaiju seems more tenuous to me. The similarity seems to me to basically just boil down to "they're big" and Star Wars already had the exogorth. I guess we do get to see purgill trash a military force in Rebels, which is classic Godzilla stuff. But we don't tend to see kaiju flying in space a lot, Godzilla vs. Space Godzilla notwithstanding.

So, I mean, I guess? Neither of these are especially uncommon things to reference in the world of film-making.


Akira has been referenced by reuse of the now classic bike skid shot.
In so far as they're both bike slides, I suppose. They're not shot from the same angle, and Kaneda kept his bike upright and came to a stop while Sabine put hers on the ground to get under an obstacle and keep going. It definitely could have inspired it. That's not an uncommon reference to make, either. It's one of the most famous images from the film.


That would be the second time SW has homaged it, I think
What was the first? Wait, Obi-Wan did it in Tartakovsky's Clone War cartoon, right?
 
There is some of that Ghibli whimsy, at least with the little dudes. I could certainly call it an influence, even though they're not similar in tone overall. Maybe Season 2 will end with Baylan angering a nature deity and getting destroyed for his hubris like Princess Mononoke? Filoni previously worked on Avatar: The Last Airbender which had quite a bit of influence from anime in general and Ghibli in particular and basically ended their first season the same way, so I'm sure he's familiar with it.

Purgil = kaiju seems more tenuous to me. The similarity seems to me to basically just boil down to "they're big" and Star Wars already had the exogorth. I guess we do get to see purgill trash a military force in Rebels, which is classic Godzilla stuff. But we don't tend to see kaiju flying in space a lot, Godzilla vs. Space Godzilla notwithstanding.

So, I mean, I guess? Neither of these are especially uncommon things to reference in the world of film-making.

(snip)

What was the first? Wait, Obi-Wan did it in Tartakovsky's Clone War cartoon, right?
I suppose, but even then those are story elements if they're anything, not really visual and certainly not an aspect of how they shot it. If they did infuse the camerawork with a specifically very Japanese sensibility which makes it distinct from how The Mandalorian and The Book of Boba Fett were shot (but also you wouldn't recognise that aspect if you'd only seen samurai films and animation), then I can only assume I'm too dim to recognise it.

And yep.
 

Hayden Christensen Returns as Anakin Skywalker for ‘Ahsoka’ Season 2

Hayden Christensen will reprise his role of Anakin Skywalker in 'Ahsoka' Season 2.
During a panel between series star Rosario Dawson, creator Dave Filoni and executive producer Jon Favreau, Christensen emerged from off-stage, joining the trio for the discussion. He waited until the last moments of the panel to announce his return to the "Star Wars" universe.

... Filoni spoke about the heavy influence of Hayao Miyazaki's "Princess Mononoke" [on the series] and Favreau talked about George Lucas' love for the character Ahsoka and reminisced about casting Dawson. The actress added that they begin shooting season two of "Ahsoka" next week.

What? Princess Mononoke? Does Filoni even know what he's talking about?
 
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