I completely agree. According to the QM, our system has fuckhuge amounts of resources, including eezo, so we really don't need to go anywhere to get more resources. Moreover, the less we spread out, the less likely we are to be found, and if found, the easier it is to defend. It is to our advantage to build tall, here.
TLDR: you need a galaxy-spanning polity not only to secure the resources and population you need, but also so you can spread your infrastructure enough to absorb damage. The Reapers have millions of dreadnought-grade warships and billions of lesser warforms like Destroyers, if you try to fort up in one system they just throw more drone tonnage at you than your entire system has mass, star, planets and all. Spreading your infrastructure out means they can't just hammer it all at once with utterly overwhelming force; keep in mind that they can and do break down entire planets for raw materials. You can build up enough to beat them, with the galaxy at your back, but that's simply as much a function of area as one of infrastructure; as inconceivably colossal as the Reaper Armada is, even they don't have the ships to attack the entire galaxy simultaneously; it's just far, far too large for that.

Re Heatsinks: The removable/disposable heatsinks aren't a thing, because when your heatsinks aren't good enough you build better heatsinks. The entire point of the way ME weapons are designed is that they have functionally infinite ammunition with no fiddly bits you need to keep track of or clean in the field. The whole reason to use them over conventional firearms is the ability to totally seal the 'working bits' from environmental factors like dust or weather, combined with the massive simplification of logistics. The whole removable heatsinks thing utterly compromises both those advantages, without providing a significant improvement in performance- no matter what the lore might claim, someone in ME1 utilizing good fire discipline isn't going to be putting less rounds out than someone in ME2 or 3 doing the same. The simple fact is it greatly compromises the ability to weatherproof weaponry, complicates your logistics, and adds one more thing a soldier has to keep track of in battle, without providing a substantial advantage.
Now, that being said, there are weapons (like your Very Nice Pistol, for example) that use multiple heatsink systems ala a classic revolver, but (again like your pistol) these tend to be limited-issue or specialist weapons because of the increased cost and complexity such systems add to a weapon. Equally, some weapons require higher-density power sources that are impractical to render field-chargeable, such as Flamethrowers or Rocket Launchers; these require either specialized power feeds connected to a suitably powerful reactor or large bank of high-density batteries, or ultra-high-density 'Power Cells' that are disposable simply because when you cram that much energy into a battery the size of a soup can it doesn't do good things to the battery.

TLDR version: ME weapons of the classic bent are nearly completely solid-state, with only a handful of moving parts that can wear out. Equally, the lack of any need for field-removable bits means you can completely seal the things from environmental hazards to a far greater degree, and means you don't need to carry anything besides the gun itself in the field. Adding removable heatsink 'magazines' compromises those advantages without offering significant advantage in return, making doing so militarily unsound. Thus, the idea is present in this AU, but never got off the ground because none of the various military acquisitions committees went for it. Think Gyrojet pistols/rifles, one of those things that was an Interesting Idea but just never went anywhere beyond a couple of short production runs by 1-2 companies.

Of course, then the Reaper War happened, and adding another thing that could run out in the field was binned immediately. Especially when a solder might not have a free hand to fiddle with his or her gun because they're too busy using it to omniblade Husks in the face or throw out tech or Biotic attacks.
 
Last edited:
TLDR: you need a galaxy-spanning polity not only to secure the resources and population you need, but also so you can spread your infrastructure enough to absorb damage. The Reapers have millions of dreadnought-grade warships and billions of lesser warforms like Destroyers, if you try to fort up in one system they just throw more drone tonnage at you than your entire system has mass, star, planets and all. Spreading your infrastructure out means they can't just hammer it all at once with utterly overwhelming force; keep in mind that they can and do break down entire planets for raw materials. You can build up enough to beat them, with the galaxy at your back, but that's simply as much a function of area as one of infrastructure; as inconceivably colossal as the Reaper Armada is, even they don't have the ships to attack the entire galaxy simultaneously; it's just far, far too large for that.

Just pointing out that my thinking was not building tall in a single system, but a slowly expanding sphere hundreds of light years, then thousands of light years, across. Which depending on the density of the particular area of the Milky Way we're in puts vastly more resources at our reach. In the millions, particularly if we're near the Core.

Whether that changes the dynamic is, of course, your prerogative.
 
Just pointing out that my thinking was not building tall in a single system, but a slowly expanding sphere hundreds of light years, then thousands of light years, across. Which depending on the density of the particular area of the Milky Way we're in puts vastly more resources at our reach. In the millions, particularly if we're near the Core.

Whether that changes the dynamic is, of course, your prerogative.

Being more dense also limits the ability for Reaper agents to operate in/close to our territory. The Collectors skirted the edges of Council Space but even so, they were close enough to begin building a Reaper nibbling at those edges.

No matter how big we get, I don't think any of our colonies will be soft enough targets for that, but other species that occupy our spaces may not be, so being able to keep more eyes on our corner of the galaxy has a few benefits beyond what happens when the cycle turns back over.
 
Honestly, all I can say is to take every system in our space and moniter our deep space thoroughly.

And that is a hugeass expense btw.

Start with our 10ly corridor and get the entire square 10ly area monitered and get shit in every system top to down then expand say 100 square ly in one direction and 100 square ly in another directionj over and over and over again maintaining perfect surveilance and presence over our complete territory until we can do expansion by the 1000sq ly then the 10000 sq ly and so on and so forth keeping a presence in every single system and throughout dead space making sure to keep everything up to date throughout.

We do that and there is no sneaky sneaky ambush on us, only siege.
 
Disclaimer: I am really enjoying this quest, and don't mean to come across as overly hostile to our QM.

That said, everything that follows is a contention of basic logic, physics, and actual events from the setting. And it is entirely too frustrating to have to explain these very basic concepts.

I will, however, spoil this post so you can ignore it if you so choose.

Even assuming you were only talking about this AU in particular, you still managed to give us a load of godawful fanon.

If high capacity heat sinks were that easy to improve upon they would've done so, and stealth ships would've been a dime a dozen for it. The heat buildup was the Tantalus' biggest problem after all.

The heat sink isn't even the part you need to improve, that just lets you fire a few more shots before stopping. What you need to improve is either the cooling system, which has a hard physical limit on its capacity unless you start introducing (very breakable) cooling fins or vents, or the efficiency of the guns themselves to just produce less heat in the first place. And, again, if that was easy then they would've done it already, instead of changing the heat sink system.

"Fire control" is just another way of saying "shoot less". No amount of waffling over technicalities is going to get past that.

"Solid state guns" fails by default, because mass effect weapons fold and unfold. Our real life weapons are closer to solid state than these. And no amount of space wizardry engineering is going to make a perfect, unjammable seal on a moving part.

If they were properly solid state, with no easy means to swap the heat sink, even just to expand it and add those cooling fins before a mission, then you've completely screwed your people over for vacuum conditions. Space is, after all, a fantastic insulator, which means any heat you generate or capture is mostly going to stay right where it is. That seems like a bit of an oversight for a void navy.

Also, there's still the ammo block, which will require a reload at one point or another. Some much more frequently than others, due to differing bullet size and fire rate. Even use conditions make an impact because the onboard VI explicitly selects bullet size on the fly.

The point behind the gun designs in mass effect is not to have infinite ammo, but to kill things faster and more efficiently than the other guys can kill you. Kinetics are, bar none, the most efficient method of turning energy into death, and adding space magic can only improve that. This is why pistols can pierce a meter plus of steel, rock, and other cover, why the shittiest gun in the setting can chew through scenery like nobody's business (in the anime), and why a sniper rifle can spin someone so hard their kneecap designates despite not sending the shooter flying with every shot.

Compared to that? Unlimited ammo is just icing. You're better off with a death ray that needs supplies than a pea shooter that goes forever.

Don't get me wrong, having functionally unlimited ammo within a single mission is an invaluable tactical advantage. But it's not the only thing they have going for them, and trying to base your entire military around it is asking to have the edge cases come beat your face in. And even with the tactical advantages, it doesn't offer any strategic advantage if you can police your spent sinks and let them cool for re-use.

Tl;DR: If you want your AU to include internal heat sinks that remained the standard? By all means, do so. But don't act like the other option doesn't have its merits or uses. And especially don't try to justify your position with ideas that don't even make sense in context.
 
No matter how big we get, I don't think any of our colonies will be soft enough targets for that, but other species that occupy our spaces may not be, so being able to keep more eyes on our corner of the galaxy has a few benefits beyond what happens when the cycle turns back over.

There's an equation here. Contact with other civilizations to form a powerful network is necessary at some point, yes, and essentially allows us to "have our cake and eat it too." We could leave the formation of a relay based, Citadel centered galactic civilization to the newer species and then contact them at a time of our choosing. But we want to develop to the point that when we make this move, we're secure in our chances of victory. Because to do so will almost certainly kick off a Harvest.

Assume the network is monitored. No active detection, but passive systems monitoring usage and feeding data back. Assume that indoctrinated agents will exist in societies where outside contact is not rigorously screened. Assume that anything close to the network will be investigated at some point by the Vanguard. We are not going to get away with building a massive galaxy spanning empire unless the Reapers are very stupid. But "we" don't have to get away with it, we just need to bide our time and build up our extremely dense, thousands of light years vast Holdfast among the stars while the younger civilizations, and potentially other Dandelion Seeds, settle the galaxy. When the time is right, we unite, and presumably very shortly after, we fight.

But the algebraic question we face is a matter of what level of security and galactic settlement is enough to make us feel confident in having the Cycle species prepared for the war to end all wars, in the short time we will have left before the Reapers arrive from Dark Space (disabling the Citadel relay immediately after contact is a must, but we will discuss that much later).

We're playing First Ones. Think like First Ones. Our goal is an Aegis to the civilizations that will grow up during this Cycle, that have not known war the scours planets and blacks out stars. But a shield must have someone to hold it, strength to keep the bulwark up, and we will look to the trillions of people and hundreds of thousands of planets they possess as that shield arm.
 
Re: Heatsinks

The practcal solution they'd do if they want extra cooling is to have a port for coolant fluid that connects to the suit. So the trooper can chose between extra weight of fire or shields. Or gets yet another attachment for extra cooling needs at the cost of weight.

Point is, make it modular so you can adjust easily without using heatsinks that fall out.
 
particularly if we're near the Core.
We might, later, try finding pulsars. Each pulsar has a unique frequency and partially basing our navigation on such a method can give us VERY precise positioning data. At least in our "local space".

Though in order for us to be successful (aka save as many sentient beings, organic or synthetic, as possible; defeat the Reapers; forge our way to other galaxies...) we do need to contact and either convince or diplomacy others to our side.

Huh, can't wait to meet other sentient beings of whatever level of development, considering WHAT Nylaria, this Aegis is (might be good species name... she is NOT an Asari).

Speaking of, can we in the next 20-30 years domesticate some wildlife? Guard dogs ARE popular nowadays :D:grin:


Edit:
By the way, is there a "character sheet" for Nylaria? Just want to know how she compares to others like Yagh, Asari, Quarian, Krogan...
 
Last edited:
We don't actually need much diplomacy. We are immortal supersoldiers that breed faster than the Krogan with access to some very advanced techs.

Our pop growth will be utterly obscene and only capped by the quality of our education system and access to resources.

Exponential growth is fun. Making other galactic races relevant long term compared to us will be hard.
 
Exponential growth is fun. Making other galactic races relevant long term compared to us will be hard.

Not as hard as you'd think. The Citadel Alliance, despite being at a numerical and technological disadvantage, was able to bleed the Reapers for a long time and quite heavily. The Protheans too, lasted... almost a century, I believe? Even after having their center of operations decapitated at the very start of the war. They don't need to be as powerful or even as numerous, there just needs to be a lot of them at a certain level of development that they can help sandbag the Reapers.
 
We don't actually need much diplomacy. We are immortal supersoldiers that breed faster than the Krogan with access to some very advanced techs.

Our pop growth will be utterly obscene and only capped by the quality of our education system and access to resources.

Exponential growth is fun. Making other galactic races relevant long term compared to us will be hard.
Except we took the mission statement, way back in the very first vote, that specifically focuses us on uniting the galaxy and get everyone cooperating on the threat.

Which is good, actually, because unless we literally fill the galaxy with bodies, we can't really beat the reapers on our own. But, go figure, working with other people means the galaxy is pre-filled with bodies! Because, you know, multiple starting populations which all experience growth. And that's just the natives.

The other seedships tip the balance waaaaay in favor of working together because they'll likely have many of the same advantages we do. They'd have access to the same gene mods, if perhaps fewer of them applied to their fullest extent, but they have a much faster route to improving those mods than we do, and they have technology to make up the difference! We had to skip out on a few tech pieces, and just not take several more, to make everything fit on our expedition. The other seed ship populations probably didn't need to make nearly as many of those kinds of sacrifices.

We may be playing a unique race of super-asari, but diplomacy will still be absolutely critical to doing anything important. We are not the center of the universe.

EDIT- also, the Andromeda Initiative, if they survived and if we have a chance to get back in contact, will require diplomancing.
 
Last edited:
VOTE IS NOW CALLED.
Info page updated with Character sheet.
Stand By for Settlement Status page.
Turn Results either late today or at some point tomorrow.
(it's a lot easier to write when it's not RAINING IN MAY SERIOUSLY THE HELL)
 
Last edited:
maybe, but getting T-storms and rain in May, in California, is definitely what-the-hell's-up-with-the-weather territory.
 
I've always enjoyed the peaceful sounds of thunderstorms. Especially the violent ones. They're the best kind of inspiration.
It can be relaxing yes.


Edit: Also, looks like Plan Biotic won with one vote.
Adhoc vote count started by Pyran on May 23, 2019 at 2:29 PM, finished with 790 posts and 30 votes.

  • [X] Plan: Basic Biotic
    -[X]Examine Pod: Your pod has a large number of systems that are now active. Given your initial exploration occurred when the power was out, exploring and learning to use its systems more thoroughly may be a good idea. (Difficulty: None) (Will reveal one-three of the systems present on your pod per use. You may choose to focus on a particular system you've already encountered to guarantee learning about it.)
    -[X]Analyze Samples: You took a wide variety of plant samples from the treeline. Analysing them to see if any are edible- or dangerous- will take some extra time. You really hope at least one proves edible, though, you were pretty sick of MREs by the first week. (Difficulty: Moderate)(Cost: 5 AP) (will reveal if there's any notable plants in your immediate area, edible or not.)
    -[X] Examine Self: you know that your physiology has been greatly enhanced compared to a baseline Asari. Perhaps a basic examination using the medbay could give you a better idea of just how much. (Difficulty: Easy)(unlocks upgrade options for medbay)
    -[X] Biotic Control: your Biotics are much more potent than the training imbued by your flash-education anticipated by several orders of magnitude. The result is that you require considerable concentration to use them without causing considerable collateral damage or even destroying something you might not want to. Worse, it will be incredibly difficult, if not impossible, to learn the more advanced techniques without getting a better handle on your powers. (Difficulty: Hard) (Cost: 40 AP) (will allow training in advanced biotic skills)
    [X] Plan Basics
    -[X]Examine Pod: Your pod has a large number of systems that are now active. Given your initial exploration occurred when the power was out, exploring and learning to use its systems more thoroughly may be a good idea. (Difficulty: None) (Will reveal one-three of the systems present on your pod per use. You may choose to focus on a particular system you've already encountered to guarantee learning about it.)
    -[X]Analyze Samples: You took a wide variety of plant samples from the treeline. Analysing them to see if any are edible- or dangerous- will take some extra time. You really hope at least one proves edible, though, you were pretty sick of MREs by the first week. (Difficulty: Moderate)(Cost: 5 AP) (will reveal if there's any notable plants in your immediate area, edible or not.)
    -[X]Train with your pistol: You have a very nice pistol. Guns aren't hard to use, but mastery is a different story. Learning to shoot properly will only increase your ability to defend yourself. (Difficulty: Easy) (increases your Firearms: Pistols skill)
    -[X]Train with your Baton: melee combat is as much a matter of skill as power, and your skills are, well, lacking. Unless you want to continue wielding it like a club, you'll need to learn how to use your baton. (Difficulty: Easy) (Increases your Melee: Armed skill)
    -[X]Train Unarmed: learning to throw a proper punch could save your life, particularly with your enhanced strength. You should probably do that. (Difficulty: Easy) (Increases your Melee: Unarmed skill
    -[X] Examine Self: you know that your physiology has been greatly enhanced compared to a baseline Asari. Perhaps a basic examination using the medbay could give you a better idea of just how much. (Difficulty: Easy)(unlocks upgrade options for medbay)
    [X] Plan First Steps
    -[X]Examine Pod: Your pod has a large number of systems that are now active. Given your initial exploration occurred when the power was out, exploring and learning to use its systems more thoroughly may be a good idea. (Difficulty: None) (Will reveal one-three of the systems present on your pod per use. You may choose to focus on a particular system you've already encountered to guarantee learning about it.)
    -[X]Analyze Samples: You took a wide variety of plant samples from the treeline. Analysing them to see if any are edible- or dangerous- will take some extra time. You really hope at least one proves edible, though, you were pretty sick of MREs by the first week. (Difficulty: Moderate)(Cost: 5 AP) (will reveal if there's any notable plants in your immediate area, edible or not.)
    -[X]Train with your Biotics: Biotics are a weapon that nothing can take from you. Unfortunately yours appear to be rather more powerful than your flash-education assumed, making them dangerous to use on or near anything you want to avoid damaging. Taking some time to train with them is the only real way to deal with that. (Difficulty: Moderate) (increases your Combat: Biotics skill, improves general Biotics skills)
    -[X]Train with your Baton: melee combat is as much a matter of skill as power, and your skills are, well, lacking. Unless you want to continue wielding it like a club, you'll need to learn how to use your baton. (Difficulty: Easy) (Increases your Melee: Armed skill)
    -[X]Train with your Omni-tool: Omni-tools can be used for a variety of combat functions. Learning to use yours for more than just pre-loaded combat programs can greatly increase your ability to handle a wide variety of threats. (Difficulty: Moderate) (increases ALL omnitool skills.)
    -[X] Examine Self: you know that your physiology has been greatly enhanced compared to a baseline Asari. Perhaps a basic examination using the medbay could give you a better idea of just how much. (Difficulty: Easy)(unlocks upgrade options for medbay)​
 
Last edited:
maybe, but getting T-storms and rain in May, in California, is definitely what-the-hell's-up-with-the-weather territory.

Oh definitely. Mankind is headed to a very nasty endgame.

The only silver lining is that the prelude to all the mega-hurricanes, crop failures and flooded cities is peculiar little weather events like rain in California or snow on the pyramids, or summer heat harsh enough to kill a soccer player.
 
Hey @Mechanis , got kind of a tangential question for you.

What happened to Conrad Verner?

Conrad was... not exactly creme of the crop, N7 material. But talking to him, he really comes across as a typical RPG protagonist - except the Shepard fanboy-ing, anyway. While that was completely intentional by the devs, it still leaves some room to work with for his character. When Shepard went down with the crucible, Conrad is exactly the kind of person I'd expect to go out there and try to fight... and then inexplicably turn out as some kind of badass of a spinoff story. Not initially, of course, but improving in leaps and bounds to keep ahead of the game where most other people would have just died repeatedly.

I kind of wonder where hero!Conrad would have stood, how he would have responded, if he got to meet Shepard one more time at the end.
 
Probably got husked.
Yes. Going off a realistic portrayal of that kind of person in a realistic setting, he probably got husked.

You may note I did not specify any amount of realism in my question. The question was not "did the obvious thing happen", it was "did the walking bag of RPG tropes get to live out his RPG protagonist life".

One of those things is significantly more interesting than the other. Hence the question.
 
Last edited:
Conrad actually managed to live to see CASE VIKING FUNERAL, though he was sorta pushing the 'more machine than man' thing due to an unfortunate habit of losing limbs.

...admittedly after the first couple of times, there was a bit less trauma involved, since he'd already misplaced the organic ones, but '...and then Conrad lost an arm/leg' was something of a running joke after a while. as were 'victory costs and arm and a leg nowadays' and well, you can probably come up with several hundred more.
 
Conrad actually managed to live to see CASE VIKING FUNERAL, though he was sorta pushing the 'more machine than man' thing due to an unfortunate habit of losing limbs.

...admittedly after the first couple of times, there was a bit less trauma involved, since he'd already misplaced the organic ones, but '...and then Conrad lost an arm/leg' was something of a running joke after a while. as were 'victory costs and arm and a leg nowadays' and well, you can probably come up with several hundred more.

Wholesome, but a living Verner also means that Kelly at least avoided the Cerberus invasion, no?
 
Back
Top