A Shaper of Ice and Fire (Geneforge/GoT crossover)

Voting is open
I agree that as is giving her Pods, Batoms and Amunition kind of go whitout saying and are pretty much the extent we can help right now, with that in mind I think we should focus on uprgradin the Thads so that wheneer this conflict turns more open we can leverage our Endless reserves.
 
Costs & Economy comparison
Economy & Comparison
Average Income - Freeman(Slavers Bay): 12-15 IM/day.
Average Income - Craftsman(tailor, blacksmith, leatherworker, candlemaker): 20-25 IM/day.
Average Income - Merchant(upper mid end): 30-40 IM/day.

Subsistance level food cost: 1-3 IM/day(bread, small cut of meat, water)
'Average' level food cost: 8-10 IM/day(fresh bread, cut of meat, vegetables, light beer/wine).

Weapon costs
Iron dagger(low end): 20-50 IM.
Steel dagger: 100-300 IM.
Iron Sword: 300-500 IM.
Steel Sword(normal quality): 500-800 IM.
Steel Sword(high quality): 800-1200 IM.
Steel Sword(masterwork/ornate): 1200-2000 IM.

Armor costs
Light leather & chain: 400-800 IM.
Heavy chainmail & Brigandine: 1000-1500 IM.
Half plate(heavy chain + armor plates): ~2000 IM.
Full plate(westerosi): 2500-4000 IM.

GM note: posting at request from Kelenas.
 
Also, she's trying to seduce more swag out of Sindri. Which is kind of hilarious, really. Does this guy even have a sex drive?
 
I don't see why he wouldn't. I can't really think of a reason why the Shapers would discourage it, save perhaps for some security concerns that wouldn't be too hard to address. Given their knowledge of biology, particularly human biology, and the various health-benefits associated with sexual activity, I could even see it being encouraged or enabled in moderation.
I could easily see Sindri requesting the services of a prostitute at a brothel when visiting the city, for example, simply because it's such an excellent form of stress relief and relaxation.
That said, given how much Sindri/Shapers should know about this, I'd expect that their reactions to seduction and the like would be different.




More on topic, though, the question in regards to the items is how much we want to provide, and how much we'll ask for. Based on the numbers Leoric provided above, I'm thinking something like 600-800 IM for the batons, and 25-50 IM for the pods. Batons we still need to make by hand (@Leoric, will there be something like a "baton breeding facility" or the like later in the tech-tree?), so we'll probably want to limit their number. Pods are easier since we can just make a bush and plant it, but it takes a while for them to start producing. We might be able to get one or two harvests out of them if we create them early in the turn, but if not, then anything we promise is also something we'll need to create ourselves, which would take a while. Some clarification on that might be handy (@Leoric?), though if need be I'd be perfectly happy with some sort of arrangement along the lines of giving the Givanni the harvests from that turn for a flat sum, or even for free.

What do you guys think?
 
@Leoric, will there be something like a "baton breeding facility" or the like later in the tech-tree?
No.

We might be able to get one or two harvests out of them if we create them early in the turn, but if not, then anything we promise is also something we'll need to create ourselves, which would take a while. Some clarification on that might be handy
They will provide a harvest the same turn.
 
Healing is incredibly valuable when no one else can remotely match it; 50 IM is incredibly low to me. Yes, the pods are disposable... but they have effects that are as lasting as a cured stab wound would have been, and should be priced accordingly. I would consider them a life-preservation tool at least on part with moderate armor and price it accordingly; something in the 800-1200 IM range.

Batons I would price relative to crossbows as they perform a comparable function in a more convenient way. Not sure how the damage they deal, range, accuracy, and armor penetration compare, but adjust price based upon those factors starting with the cost of the closest-permormance weapon.

That, of course, is pricing based upon estimated open market value instead of difficulty of creation or special ally prices... but considering that everything we're considering can be turned around and sold, that seems like the point worth looking at. Giving a discount of half or more should be fine, but we shouldn't be slashing market price by an order of magnitude here.
 
Healing is incredibly valuable when no one else can remotely match it; 50 IM is incredibly low to me. Yes, the pods are disposable... but they have effects that are as lasting as a cured stab wound would have been, and should be priced accordingly. I would consider them a life-preservation tool at least on part with moderate armor and price it accordingly; something in the 800-1200 IM range.

Batons I would price relative to crossbows as they perform a comparable function in a more convenient way. Not sure how the damage they deal, range, accuracy, and armor penetration compare, but adjust price based upon those factors starting with the cost of the closest-permormance weapon.

That, of course, is pricing based upon estimated open market value instead of difficulty of creation or special ally prices... but considering that everything we're considering can be turned around and sold, that seems like the point worth looking at. Giving a discount of half or more should be fine, but we shouldn't be slashing market price by an order of magnitude here.
At the price you're thinking of, absolutely no one would buy the pods. Spending 50 IM to cure yourself of a stab wound or the like is affordable even for the average Freeman if they're willing to live sparse and save up for a few days. 800-1200 IM, though? By the time they could save up the necessary money, the wound they would've bought it for would have long healed on its own. And that's assuming they don't just seek out the services of a normal healer to begin with, because he's likely to be much cheaper.
The end result would be that nearly no one would actually buy the things, just like what happened with our initial attempts to produce and sell healing salve and weapon oil, meaning we'd end up making absolutely no money at all.

Hence, setting the price at a level that's actually affordable for people on a somewhat daily basis, so that we can actually sell them and make money off them.
 
At the price you're thinking of, absolutely no one would buy the pods. Spending 50 IM to cure yourself of a stab wound or the like is affordable even for the average Freeman if they're willing to live sparse and save up for a few days. 800-1200 IM, though? By the time they could save up the necessary money, the wound they would've bought it for would have long healed on its own. And that's assuming they don't just seek out the services of a normal healer to begin with, because he's likely to be much cheaper.
The end result would be that nearly no one would actually buy the things, just like what happened with our initial attempts to produce and sell healing salve and weapon oil, meaning we'd end up making absolutely no money at all.

Hence, setting the price at a level that's actually affordable for people on a somewhat daily basis, so that we can actually sell them and make money off them.

I think you are kind of forgetting how weak the oil and the salve were and how powerfull the Pod is, the oil and the salve had problems because their qualities were only marginaly better than mundane stuff, seriously the salve only healed scratches, but with the pod the situation is way diferente, we arent talking about the kind of wound that will heal on its own in a few days, we are talking about the kind that if it doesn't kill you right now will probably take weeks to stop hurting, and that is if it doesnt infect an kill you anyway, I will agree that pricing a conssumable at 800 IC may be too much, but no one expects the extremely rare new miracle cure to be something any mook on the streets can buy with a weeks work, at that price I expect most of what we produce to end up resold in an instant, I would say something around 300 IC would be the very minimun price possible.
 
I think you are kind of forgetting how weak the oil and the salve were and how powerfull the Pod is, the oil and the salve had problems because their qualities were only marginaly better than mundane stuff, seriously the salve only healed scratches, but with the pod the situation is way diferente, we arent talking about the kind of wound that will heal on its own in a few days, we are talking about the kind that if it doesn't kill you right now will probably take weeks to stop hurting, and that is if it doesnt infect an kill you anyway, I will agree that pricing a conssumable at 800 IC may be too much, but no one expects the extremely rare new miracle cure to be something any mook on the streets can buy with a weeks work, at that price I expect most of what we produce to end up resold in an instant, I would say something around 300 IC would be the very minimun price possible.
300 IM is STILL far too much.

An average craftsman, who're basically the middle class of a society such as this, makes ~20-25 IM per day according to the list above. Now, 8-10 IM of that go towards feeding himself, so in theory that'd leave him with ~10-17 IM per day to work with. With that money, it'd take him ~20-30 days to save up enough money to pay for a single pod. Less if he's willing to tighten his belt for a while.
However, most of them don't just have to feed themselves, they also have to feed their families, along with other potential expenses such as rent for their home or shop, wages/food for apprentices they might have, new clothes they might need every now and then, and various other stuff. Altogether, the amount of money they have actually available per day is likely to be a good deal lower than the 10-17 one might assume at a glance.

It doesn't really matter how much of a miracle a medicine is if it costs an arm and a leg to buy, because no one would buy it except under the most dire of circumstances. The end result is that we'd make less money and have less influence overall.

50 IM, which is about what I'd aim at, is still fairly expensive, but it's the AFFORDABLE kind of expensive that people can actually save up to without having to nearly bankrupt or starve themselves for. Though, now that I think about it it's probably still a little high, since unless people buy directly from us, some merchant would raise the price in order to make a profit.

Also, keep in mind that we're effectively talking about FREE money. Even if we sell the pods at 20 IM each, a single pod bush would still be earning us 600 IM per turn. For comparison, right now we're earning ~1300 IM per turn through a variety of different sources, so simply planting two pod bushes would effectively double our income, even if we'd sell at such a low price.


Anyway, finished vote/plan below. Still somewhat iffy on a few of the details, so feedback would be great. :)

Response?
[x] Ask whether she tries to entice all her negotiation partners like this, or whether we're special. Maybe banter/flirt back and forth a little.
-[x] First off, we're willing to continue to provide batons and healing pods on request. Batons for 800 IM each (starting sum; could haggle us down to ~600, I figure, possibly 500 if she offers something really interesting in return) with a limit of 15 per turn. Pods for 50 IM each (starting sum again; lower limit ~20-30), for a limit of 90 per turn (adjust depending on the amount of harvests we can get from 3 pod bushes in the same turn, so we don't over-commit). In that regard, thank her for the tools she provided upon our request; they made producing the pods much easier.
--[x] Depending on her own reaction to the prices, hint that we're aware that we're probably selling them below value. Possibly attribute it to a mix of differing priorities, and wishing to build a good relation with the Givanni.
-[x] Second, we'd be willing to assist in a more direct manner. For example, using Fyora to set fire to Morosini ships or buildings.
-[x] Third, we're willing to offer our services analyzing anything unusual that they uncover regarding the Morosini and their backer, should such come up.
 
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However, most of them don't just have to feed themselves, they also have to feed their families, along with other potential expenses such as rent for their home or shop, wages/food for apprentices they might have, new clothes they might need every now and then, and various other stuff. Altogether, the amount of money they have actually available per day is likely to be a good deal lower than the 10-17 one might assume at a glance.
Let me step in for just a moment here - for craftsmen/merchants that is counted into things before everything else. If you add in all the costs and wealth tied up in their shops/workshops then the craftsmen and merchant groups make significantly more each day then I listed, but since most of that is bogged down in the things earning them money I count it as a before income deal.

They do still have general living expenses though.
 
It doesn't really matter how much of a miracle a medicine is if it costs an arm and a leg to buy, because no one would buy it except under the most dire of circumstances. The end result is that we'd make less money and have less influence overall.

50 IM, which is about what I'd aim at, is still fairly expensive, but it's the AFFORDABLE kind of expensive that people can actually save up to without having to nearly bankrupt or starve themselves for. Though, now that I think about it it's probably still a little high, since unless people buy directly from us, some merchant would raise the price in order to make a profit.

Also, keep in mind that we're effectively talking about FREE money. Even if we sell the pods at 20 IM each, a single pod bush would still be earning us 600 IM per turn. For comparison, right now we're earning ~1300 IM per turn through a variety of different sources, so simply planting two pod bushes would effectively double our income, even if we'd sell at such a low price.
I have to ask but, weren't we trying to keep things mostly low key untill we had a solid enought powerbase ? Because the Idea of selling to the middle class kind of clash with that, to not talk about the very small production. Your whole plan seens based on large scale when we realy should keep things contained to small amounts, besides we realy need the big bucks since the kids are going to need a loot of expensive tutors in the future just to start with.
Look I understand the whole idea behind cheap pods, but as is wouldnt tha tbe defeated be plain suply and demand when they end up resold trice over to high class so they can equip their bodyguards ? So why shouldnt the profit come to us ? We can always lower prices when mass production becomes viable.
 
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Pod pricing should not be done on the assumption that we're trying to get everyone in the city with a steady income to buy one and keep it in their personal medkit, or that we're selling them so that people can cure day-to-day ills. The level of healing that these pods can provide is extremely powerful and obviously magical. We don't want everyone on the street to be able to afford them casually.

There are only a few types of people who are our target market for the pods:
  • Rich people who want their bodyguards/personal armies/on-hand doctors to have the best equipment possible, for whom price is not a serious concern
  • Personally wealthy warrior or mercenary types for whom serious injury is a real risk and hedging against that is a good investment of their available wealth
  • People who are actively injured and going to die or be crippled for life unless they get one, and therefore are willing to hand over their life savings because without a life they don't need savings
  • Healers who basically function as retailers by purchasing the pods in advance and then selling the pods to one of the previous three as-needed
None of these groups are the kind of demographic that need their product to have a low cost in order to purchase it. If a craftsman can buy the best healing devices in the setting, which are so far above what they can otherwise access that they might as well be miracles in cans, using nothing more than a week's disposable income, then the price is much too low.

Yes, if we lower the price so far that it's dirt cheap on the logic that we want 100% sales, we could certainly manage that. But why would we? We don't benefit from low-cost healing being available to the masses, we don't benefit from rumors of low-cost healing pouring out of our island in gigantic streams, we certainly don't benefit from pricing our services so low that people are likely to question whether we're a street-level con-man with a neat trick instead of a world class wielder of magic (because if you charge more people think that your services- and you- are actually worth more and provide respect accordingly), we don't benefit from letting anyone else know that making the pods requires little to no work on our part instead of each one being a laborious work of hand-crafting by a master artisan, and finally, we don't benefit from maximizing sales rather than maximizing profits, so if we can keep prices artificially high- and we can- then we should do so.

What happened with the salves will not- cannot- happen here, because the pods practically sell themselves. When the sales pitch involves the salesman being able to stick a knife through his arm, down a pod, and then have no wound afterward, people will buy. And they will pay. For that kind of performance, they'll pay a lot.

Looking up Leoric's previous comments on crossbow cost, those range from 200 for absolute shit to 2000 for the best in the world, so base price of 1000 and a discount of a couple hundred for our friend and ally seems appropriate for batons. Since there's contention here I'm willing to call 400 IM a reasonable friend-discount pre-haggle base price for the pods, but anything less than that is just silly.

I like most of the vote, though. Providing goods at reduced price, raids/combat assistance from creations, and I've thrown in consulting as a magic user in case that comes up since it seems like there's magic threaded through a lot of the plot and they could well have an ace.

[x] Ask whether she tries to entice all her negotiation partners like this, or whether we're special. Maybe banter/flirt back and forth a little.
-[x] First off, we're willing to continue to provide batons and healing pods on request. Batons for 800 IM each (starting sum; could haggle us down to ~600, I figure, possibly 500 if she offers something really interesting in return) with a limit of 15 per turn. Pods for 400 IM each (starting sum again; lower limit ~200), for a limit of 90 per turn (adjust depending on the amount of harvests we can get from 3 pod bushes in the same turn, so we don't over-commit). In that regard, thank her for the tools she provided upon our request; they made producing the pods much easier.
--[x] Depending on her own reaction to the prices, hint that we're aware that we're probably selling them below value. Possibly attribute it to a mix of differing priorities, and wishing to build a good relation with the Givanni.
-[x] Second, we'd be willing to assist in a more direct manner. For example, using Fyora to set fire to Morosini ships or buildings.
-[x] Third, we're willing to offer our services analyzing anything unusual that they uncover regarding the Morosini and their backer, should such come up.
 
There are only a few types of people who are our target market for the pods:
  • Rich people who want their bodyguards/personal armies/on-hand doctors to have the best equipment possible, for whom price is not a serious concern
  • Personally wealthy warrior or mercenary types for whom serious injury is a real risk and hedging against that is a good investment of their available wealth
  • People who are actively injured and going to die or be crippled for life unless they get one, and therefore are willing to hand over their life savings because without a life they don't need savings
  • Healers who basically function as retailers by purchasing the pods in advance and then selling the pods to one of the previous three as-needed
Actually, considering the potency of the pods, beyond the cheapest pods, anyone who needs one either already needs to have one on hand and nearby or they're going to die before they can save up the money for a pod.
 
[x] Ask whether she tries to entice all her negotiation partners like this, or whether we're special. Maybe banter/flirt back and forth a little.
-[x] First off, we're willing to continue to provide batons and healing pods on request. Batons for 800 IM each (starting sum; could haggle us down to ~600, I figure, possibly 500 if she offers something really interesting in return) with a limit of 15 per turn. Pods for 400 IM each (starting sum again; lower limit ~200), for a limit of 90 per turn (adjust depending on the amount of harvests we can get from 3 pod bushes in the same turn, so we don't over-commit). In that regard, thank her for the tools she provided upon our request; they made producing the pods much easier.
--[x] Depending on her own reaction to the prices, hint that we're aware that we're probably selling them below value. Possibly attribute it to a mix of differing priorities, and wishing to build a good relation with the Givanni.
-[x] Second, we'd be willing to assist in a more direct manner. For example, using Fyora to set fire to Morosini ships or buildings.
-[x] Third, we're willing to offer our services analyzing anything unusual that they uncover regarding the Morosini and their backer, should such come up.
 
I have to ask but, weren't we trying to keep things mostly low key untill we had a solid enought powerbase ? Because the Idea of selling to the middle class kind of clash with that, to not talk about the very small production. Your whole plan seens based on large scale when we realy should keep things contained to small amounts, besides we realy need the big bucks since the kids are going to need a loot of expensive tutors in the future just to start with.
First off, something both you and DarkLight seem to have forgotten, is that we're only selling them to the Givanni at the moment. Maybe a few to Hassan's men to help deal with the Gardeners, but that can be discussed/considered later. The Givanni might re-sell them later, but that still grants us a layer of obfuscation as to the exact origins of the pods.

After all, while it might not be widely known that Sindri the lighthouse keeper is a magic user, the fact that there ARE magic-users in Astapor should be pretty blatantly obvious and well-known to any who cares/cared to look. I mean, there was the whole bit where the top of a mountain got blown off and set on fire, the Givanni guards who helped fight an undead abomination in the sewers, Hassan's men and their conflict with the Gardeners, Hassan's men when they accompanied us to capture Tregan and some of our Thadhs died and dissolved, that time during the festival where we used a pod to heal someone from critical head injuries, and so on.

So, "keeping low-key" is a bit relative. Keeping the fact that magic-users are active in Astapor has failed pretty spectacularly by this point. Sindri the lighthouse keeper being a mage, though, should be relatively unknown outside of a select few, and selling pods to/through the Givanni wouldn't change that.
Look I understand the whole idea behind cheap pods, but as is wouldnt tha tbe defeated be plain suply and demand when they end up resold trice over to high class so they can equip their bodyguards ? So why shouldnt the profit come to us ? We can always lower prices when mass production becomes viable.
Except that mass production is already perfectly viable. Pod bushes, remember? We could easily set up a couple of dozen of them, churning out hundreds or even thousands of pods per month.

Just to give an extreme example; a pod bush costs 250 DVP to create, and we get an average of 60 points per die. At 90 dice/turn, that'd be ~5400 point, translating into 21 pod bushes, with a bit left over. That's 210 pods per month, for a total of 630 pods per turn. At, say, 20 IM each, we'd make 12600 IM per turn, or 4200 IM per month. For 50 IM each we'd be looking at something like 10k per month. And beyond the initial investment of creating them? The pod bushes require only absolutely trivial amounts of time to care for and harvest, meaning that the money we make is essentially free.

(Honestly, I'm really looking forward to the point where we're in an even stronger position and can be completely open about what we can do. I'd really like to see Cathaline's face when we basically admit that we can essentially grow money on trees.)

Yeah, the first few pods that actually reach the open market are likely going to be snapped up at higher prices by some rich merchants or aristocrats for their personal guards, but those markets aren't going to last; eventually all the nobles, rich merchant masters, and so on will have their fill, and since they'll rarely see much chances for injury, their pods won't get used much.

What happened with the salves will not- cannot- happen here, because the pods practically sell themselves. When the sales pitch involves the salesman being able to stick a knife through his arm, down a pod, and then have no wound afterward, people will buy. And they will pay. For that kind of performance, they'll pay a lot.
Actually, it will. You could do a very similar demonstration with the healing salve; make a cut into your finger with a knife, apply salve, show how the cut's gone afterwards. And yet, barely anyone bought it because it was too expensive for most people's tastes.
The price you want to assign to the healing pods will result in the exact same thing. The average person doesn't just have 400 IM lying around. Even an upper middle-class merchant would have to spend a significant part of a month saving up money for a pod and nothing else. And the people who can afford the pods, such as aristocrats, don't really need them because they are in no real danger of being injured.
At that price, the vast majority of people will simply decide to make do without the wonder-pod, just as they made do without the wonder-salve, with the end result that the pods will gather dust in the storeroom rather than making us money.
 
First off, something both you and DarkLight seem to have forgotten, is that we're only selling them to the Givanni at the moment. Maybe a few to Hassan's men to help deal with the Gardeners, but that can be discussed/considered later. The Givanni might re-sell them later, but that still grants us a layer of obfuscation as to the exact origins of the pods.
And that is a very good layer of obfuscation and pretty much the reason I am okay with selling then in small amounts, because seriously if we try to make enought that they reach the unwashed masses there is no way for then to block that much escrutiny after putting things so in the open.
Besides I dont see the point of us not getting most of the profit.

Yeah, the first few pods that actually reach the open market are likely going to be snapped up at higher prices by some rich merchants or aristocrats for their personal guards, but those markets aren't going to last; eventually all the nobles, rich merchant masters, and so on will have their fill, and since they'll rarely see much chances for injury, their pods won't get used much.
I dont think you realy get it, Yes the first batches will to the rich, after they get their fill everything else will be exported to other wealthy people, all those people will end up injured way more often since bullshit healing means greater risks become aceptable, and then those rich people will realize there is only one source of those and how valuable they are are on so many levels, specialy since in the amounts we produce it could easily affect the outcome of wars, and then everyone wants a monopoly and then we are screwed.
What stops mass production isnt our inability to produce, but our inability to handle the clusterfuck that would cause, there simple isnt a way to keep things low-key and suplying everyone and their grandmother at the same time.

Actually, it will. You could do a very similar demonstration with the healing salve; make a cut into your finger with a knife, apply salve, show how the cut's gone afterwards. And yet, barely anyone bought it because it was too expensive for most people's tastes.
Again you forget the pd is orders of magnitude greater than the salve, it is one thing to instantly heal a smal cut that could heal on its own on a few days, it another to intantly heal a gash going for arm to shoulder that if it doesnt kill you high now will take months to heal at beast, with great possibility of infection and reduced capabilities on the arm.
 
[x] Ask whether she tries to entice all her negotiation partners like this, or whether we're special. Maybe banter/flirt back and forth a little.
-[x] First off, we're willing to continue to provide batons and healing pods on request. Batons for 800 IM each (starting sum; could haggle us down to ~600, I figure, possibly 500 if she offers something really interesting in return) with a limit of 15 per turn. Pods for 400 IM each (starting sum again; lower limit ~200), for a limit of 90 per turn (adjust depending on the amount of harvests we can get from 3 pod bushes in the same turn, so we don't over-commit). In that regard, thank her for the tools she provided upon our request; they made producing the pods much easier.
--[x] Depending on her own reaction to the prices, hint that we're aware that we're probably selling them below value. Possibly attribute it to a mix of differing priorities, and wishing to build a good relation with the Givanni.
-[x] Second, we'd be willing to assist in a more direct manner. For example, using Fyora to set fire to Morosini ships or buildings.
-[x] Third, we're willing to offer our services analyzing anything unusual that they uncover regarding the Morosini and their backer, should such come up.
 
I dont think you realy get it, Yes the first batches will to the rich, after they get their fill everything else will be exported to other wealthy people, all those people will end up injured way more often since bullshit healing means greater risks become aceptable, and then those rich people will realize there is only one source of those and how valuable they are are on so many levels, specialy since in the amounts we produce it could easily affect the outcome of wars, and then everyone wants a monopoly and then we are screwed.
What stops mass production isnt our inability to produce, but our inability to handle the clusterfuck that would cause, there simple isnt a way to keep things low-key and suplying everyone and their grandmother at the same time.
Okay, the bit about people getting hurt more often is just blatantly false. It absolutely doesn't matter what sort of healing is available; people will still do their best to avoid getting injured, because injuries are painful, and the vast majority of people don't like feeling pain.
As for the rest, while I concede that there probably are a small number of idiots who might think like that, but the vast majority should be smart enough to realize that trying to enslave the guy(s) making the magical wonder-medicine would be a horrible idea, because there'd be nothing stopping that same guy from inserting some deadly poison into his next batches of wonder medicine, and they wouldn't know until people start dying horribly by the droves.

Far more likely they'd simply get into bidding wars trying to buy out as much of the pods as they can for themselves. Which is actually good for us because it means we can keep creating new pod bushes in order to make even more money.
Again you forget the pd is orders of magnitude greater than the salve,
Erm, no. No, it isn't.
From the production document;
Name: Minor Healing Pod
Required Reagents:
  • Shaper Reagents: C.
Special Requirements: Shaper Vat.
DVP: 60.
Description: Heals minor wounds and slightly broken bones in moments.
It's nice, sure, but it does have its limits, and at the level that seems implied here, most people could do without when the other choice is to basically bankrupt or starve themselves.
 
all those people will end up injured way more often since bullshit healing means greater risks become aceptable
Uh...getting injured still hurts and it's very easy to go from critically wounded or maimed in a way a pod can fix, to permanently dead in a way the pod can't. The people who can afford it have entire lifestyles where other people get in danger so they don't have to.
 
Yeah, the first few pods that actually reach the open market are likely going to be snapped up at higher prices by some rich merchants or aristocrats for their personal guards, but those markets aren't going to last; eventually all the nobles, rich merchant masters, and so on will have their fill, and since they'll rarely see much chances for injury, their pods won't get used much.
I am sure Sindri knows the concept and how to implement planned obsolescence :D

@others
We can scale the price of the more potent ones once we researched them. Note that we just scratched the surface with minor and lesser healing pods.

[x] Ask whether she tries to entice all her negotiation partners like this, or whether we're special. Maybe banter/flirt back and forth a little.
-[x] First off, we're willing to continue to provide batons and healing pods on request. Batons for 800 IM each (starting sum; could haggle us down to ~600, I figure, possibly 500 if she offers something really interesting in return) with a limit of 15 per turn. Pods for 50 IM each (starting sum again; lower limit ~20-30), for a limit of 90 per turn (adjust depending on the amount of harvests we can get from 3 pod bushes in the same turn, so we don't over-commit). In that regard, thank her for the tools she provided upon our request; they made producing the pods much easier.
--[x] Depending on her own reaction to the prices, hint that we're aware that we're probably selling them below value. Possibly attribute it to a mix of differing priorities, and wishing to build a good relation with the Givanni.
-[x] Second, we'd be willing to assist in a more direct manner. For example, using Fyora to set fire to Morosini ships or buildings.
-[x] Third, we're willing to offer our services analyzing anything unusual that they uncover regarding the Morosini and their backer, should such come up.
 
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Okay, the bit about people getting hurt more often is just blatantly false. It absolutely doesn't matter what sort of healing is available; people will still do their best to avoid getting injured, because injuries are painful, and the vast majority of people don't like feeling pain.
Uh...getting injured still hurts and it's very easy to go from critically wounded or maimed in a way a pod can fix, to permanently dead in a way the pod can't. The people who can afford it have entire lifestyles where other people get in danger so they don't have to.
Look for normal people in normal situations I would agree with you, but at the end of the day the simple fact is that if they can easily get pods people will take more risks since they can more easily handle the consequences, knights will get more injured in training since the consequences of slcking is death on the batlefield, guards will get more injured because their master will demand they take more risks now that smaller wounds are not so relevant, random idiots will get more injured since the consequence of doing that jumpr wrong goes from a bad leg for days to pulling a pod from their satchel and aplying it, gladiators will get more hurt since the crownds demand blood an now they have more of it to spill, being injured may be painfull but the simple fact is if wounds can be easily in moments intead of weeks whitout risk of infection than the whole risk assessment changes, the vast majority of people may want to avoid wounds at all costs,but there is no way acessible instant healing won't increase the frequence people get injured, if fo no other reson than risk takes lsting longer to take more risks. It is simple human nature, the safer people fell the more risks they take.
As for the rest, while I concede that there probably are a small number of idiots who might think like that, but the vast majority should be smart enough to realize that trying to enslave the guy(s) making the magical wonder-medicine would be a horrible idea, because there'd be nothing stopping that same guy from inserting some deadly poison into his next batches of wonder medicine, and they wouldn't know until people start dying horribly by the droves.

The reason the guy making wonder medicine doesn't poison you is because he will end up beheadedbe the survivors added to the lack of choices, he needs to alve to a patron because everyone is after him to either have a monopoly or deny him as a resource to others, besides the whole problem is that if you mass produce than obiviously we arent making then personaly be hand all the time, wich greatly reduce the risks of poison, and people will discover we are one guy, because there is no way to keep secrecy when everyone and their grandmother is trying to learn about us.
Also you realize the whole idea of biding just puts more emphasis on how selling than this cheap would be the equivalent of burning money ?
It's nice, sure, but it does have its limits, and at the level that seems implied here, most people could do without when the other choice is to basically bankrupt or starve themselves.
Still order of magnitude better than the salve who could only heal tiny cuts, besides the fact most people could do whitout then is no problem at all, it simple doesnt matter that the common man can't afford our pods because the simple law of suply and demand says we won't be producing enought to make it available to them anytime soon since that would atract more escrutiny thant we can handle way before we could benefit from large sales.
 
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