A new colony has been founded

[Powerofmind]

Personally, I favor preparing some defenses and thus being able to resist if the invasion, while also planning to subvert the soldiers.

fasquardon

Click to shrink...

We can't subvert the soldiers being sent. At best, we can hole up inside and threaten to blow irreparable holes in the buildings if they try to breach the airlock, which has about a 50/50 chance of working that they don't call the bluff and hand over their weapons so they can be imprisoned. At worst, they came prepared with means to enact pretty serious repairs to damaged systems, and they have no qualms killing every single colonist and replacing them with cross-trained astronaut soldiers capable of handling jobs like food, air, and water production.

If we try to withhold food, air, or water from them, we will be executed and they'll take over the jobs so that we rely on them for essentials. We have no way of forcing them to all congregate in a nice pleasant room so we can decompress them in their sleep. We have no weapons and they're going to be coming with at least door charges for ordinance and a lot of compressed O2 so even if we decompress the base their shift guards will be conscious to kill us after.

We can only fight, subversion is a pointless endeavor.

 

[fasquardon]

At worst, they came prepared with means to enact pretty serious repairs to damaged systems, and they have no qualms killing every single colonist and replacing them with cross-trained astronaut soldiers capable of handling jobs like food, air, and water production.

Click to shrink...

You're making large assumptions about the technical capabilities of the soldiers. The level of training required to be an astronaut is quite extraordinary, and being a colonist on another world is in many ways even more demanding. To be effective as an invasion force, these soldiers would need to be have astronaut/colonist skills as their first and second specialties - leaving soldier as their third skill and it takes really special people even for astronauts to be good at their 3rd-tier skills.

So either we're about to be invaded by a force of astronaut/colonists who are on the same level (militarily) as our own security forces (bad for us) or we are about to be invaded by a bunch of crack commandos who will not have the levels of training and skill redundancy required to act independently from us (in other words, capable of inflicting mutually-assured destruction on us, but not capable of taking over the colony and surviving themselves).

Also, from the last update it sounds like they aren't carrying much in the way of supplies in order to fit the soldiers and weapons into the colony ship. This would imply they don't have many parts to enact repairs. Alternatively, if they can make repairs, then certainly their ability to do so will be limited - I mean, our expedition was a prepared colony (rather than an invasion force) and most of our equipment is close to breaking down.

And yes, there's a chance all the soldiers are brain-washed and won't think for themselves just how bad warfare so far from a breathable atmosphere and any source of re-supply would turn out when they themselves aren't in any position to survive a siege. There's also a chance all or some of them would be open to cooperation rather than everyone dying.

fasquardon

 

[inverted_helix]

Honestly we don't have weapons. You don't need to be very good at soldiering to win a battle when you have weapons and the other side doesn't.

But also our colony has a lot of extraneous population that isn't involved in survival. So that means that not everyone at the colony has to be trained in keeping the systems running.

The way I would send out the mission would be a unit of crack astronaut-commandos that would take the base over. While another unit of combat engineers to do repairs and run the necessary equipment waited on the spacecraft to come in after the commandos secure the base. They really don't need to all be capable of doing everything. They just bring units with separate specialties. That's why the Army Corp of Engineers exists, so the main soldiers don't need to know how to build things. The military does understand specialization and mixing units of different types to best achieve a goal.

Sure once the commandos are done taking the base they don't have much of a purpose, but they can still be general labor directed by the engineers, and we have scientists that do research instead of maintenance and laborers that don't have clearly defined skills. So there's plenty of wiggle room.

 

[Powerofmind]

So either we're about to be invaded by a force of astronaut/colonists who are on the same level (militarily) as our own security forces (bad for us) or we are about to be invaded by a bunch of crack commandos who will not have the levels of training and skill redundancy required to act independently from us (in other words, capable of inflicting mutually-assured destruction on us, but not capable of taking over the colony and surviving themselves).

Click to shrink...

To assume they do not have the ability to replace existing necessity jobs is foolish at best. They know the initial colonists are an international effort, and that in all likelihood no self-respecting American will go along with it. To top it off we get another two supply runs before they show up, meaning that they'll probably be outnumbered on the offense in.

I also must point out that it's really not that complicated to follow basic instructions on how to manage automated systems like oxygen management, the ice drones, or something as difficult as fishing and farming. They don't need experts to run the colony, literally anyone who could complete college is enough to take over.

And yes, there's a chance all the soldiers are brain-washed and won't think for themselves just how bad warfare so far from a breathable atmosphere and any source of re-supply would turn out when they themselves aren't in any position to survive a siege. There's a chance all or some of them would be open to cooperation rather than everyone dying.

Click to shrink...

There's also a chance they're highly trusted elites that are part of a Junta uprising who don't need to be brainwashed to be willing to take risks in an aggressive subjugation. You can't assume that they won't be willing to die just because normal people would be that way. If they're sending people at us, they won't be normal people by any stretch of the word.

 

[BetaM]

[X] Scout the local area
[X] Inform the populace of the imminent threa
[X] Contact Independent groups for Aid

 

[Terrabrand]

That's why the Army Corp of Engineers exists, so the main soldiers don't need to know how to build things. The military does understand specialization and mixing units of different types to best achieve a goal.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, Combined Arms Tactics is the classic maxim of warfare.

 

[fasquardon]

But also our colony has a lot of extraneous population that isn't involved in survival. So that means that not everyone at the colony has to be trained in keeping the systems running.

Click to shrink...

Actually extraneous population is vital for survival. A colony needs slack so that illness, injury or death of a small portion of a colony doesn't mean death for everyone.

And yes, not everyone needs the same skills, but you need enough redundancy of skills to be able to deal with a wide range of eventualities, otherwise the colony is likely to die before resupply arrives.

That's why the Army Corp of Engineers exists

Click to shrink...

The Army Corp of Engineers aren't operating millions of miles away from resupply though, so they can do things that would be suicidal when operating so far from support.

To assume they do not have the ability to replace existing necessity jobs is foolish at best.

Click to shrink...

Which is why I am advocating preparing to defend ourselves also.

But until they arrive, we don't know how serious a threat they are. Until we know more, I think it is wise to look at a wide range of solutions. Starting out by assuming that this is a computer game and that these are mechanical enemies that we must either kill or be killed by seems to be depriving ourselves of too many potential weapons.

When they arrive, I'd like us to be in a position to speak softly while holding a big stick.

I also must point out that it's really not that complicated to follow basic instructions on how to manage automated systems like oxygen management, the ice drones, or something as difficult as fishing and farming. They don't need experts to run the colony, literally anyone who could complete college is enough to take over.

Click to shrink...

I might agree with you if we didn't need to spend an R&D action on working out how to provide a breathable atmosphere for ourselves.

From the way the main colony is running, it seems that survival in this setting does need experts.

There's also a chance they're highly trusted elites that are part of a Junta uprising [snip]. You can't assume that they won't be willing to die just because normal people would be that way. If they're sending people at us, they won't be normal people by any stretch of the word.

Click to shrink...

Absolutely agree here.

who don't need to be brainwashed to be willing to take risks in an aggressive subjugation

Click to shrink...

I don't agree here. But I suspect that is down to us having different definitions of what "brainwashing" is. Brainwashed people can do things that seem perfectly logical and even virtuous, based on the information they have.

fasquardon

 

[Powerofmind]

Which is why I am advocating preparing to defend ourselves also.

But until they arrive, we don't know how serious a threat they are. Until we know more, I think it is wise to look at a wide range of solutions. Starting out by assuming that this is a computer game and that these are mechanical enemies that we must either kill or be killed by seems to be depriving ourselves of too many potential weapons.

When they arrive, I'd like us to be in a position to speak softly while holding a big stick.

Click to shrink...

You can't admit that these people will likely be diehard invaders with absolutely no compunctions to listen to reason, and then tell us that we should hope reason works before using another means of shutting them down. Parley means nothing to a junta that doesn't care what the rules are in it's own country, if we claim negotiation, they will do everything in their power to capture or kill delegates, bumrush the airlock, or plan a breach in an adjacent structure during negotiations. Talking only helps them, and only hurts us.

I'm fine with trying to come up with bluffs and blinds, but we absolutely cannot sit at the table of negotiation with them. At all. Either they surrender unconditionally to us, or they're going to have to die.

The Army Corp of Engineers aren't operating millions of miles away from resupply though, so they can do things that would be suicidal when operating so far from support.

Click to shrink...

The Army Corp of Engineers wins if they're inside the base with us because we tried to 'subvert' them with peaceful negotiation. Any instance where they are in the base with any weapons at all is a victory condition for them being able to take control of it, with the second being the deaths of every dissenter in the base.

I might agree with you if we didn't need to spend an R&D action on working out how to provide a breathable atmosphere for ourselves.

From the way the main colony is running, it seems that survival in this setting does need experts.

Click to shrink...

It's not production, it's recycling, which can be made efficient and non-wasteful of scarce resources mostly during engineering design iterations. Chemical interactions are also important to know the most ideal mixtures for generating oxygen, which, even in a space colony, isn't going to just be sitting around in someone's head. Once systems are in place, it becomes as difficult as making sure resources necessary for function are used and following the schematics if things break down.

 

[inverted_helix]

The Army Corp of Engineers aren't operating millions of miles away from resupply though, so they can do things that would be suicidal when operating so far from support.

Click to shrink...

Actually the Army Corp of Engineers are the best engineers on that planet at dealing with lack of supplies. That's what their training is meant to let them do, build something even when the enemy is blowing up everything around them.

Actually extraneous population is vital for survival. A colony needs slack so that illness, injury or death of a small portion of a colony doesn't mean death for everyone.

And yes, not everyone needs the same skills, but you need enough redundancy of skills to be able to deal with a wide range of eventualities, otherwise the colony is likely to die before resupply arrives.

Click to shrink...

You completely missed the point, look at the skill sheet:

-ten colonists with scientific training.

• Biologist: 3
• Chemist: 2
• Physicist: 4
• Mathematician: 1

-ten colonists with artisanal skills

• Brick making : 1
• Glass blowing: 1
• Engineer: 4
• Architect: 1
• Doctor: 3 (General practitioner, Obstetrician, Surgeon)

-twenty colonists with physical skills

• Surveyors: 2 (Both have cross training in geology)
• Laborers: 8
• Miners: 10

Click to shrink...

Half these aren't even skilled jobs. You don't need to know anything to be a "laborer". Mining isn't something that takes particular skill. Physicists and mathematicians aren't contributing to keeping the colony functional.

Maybe the biologists and chemists are needed for running things but it's kind of doubtful. Thing is the colony was built as a research outpost. If you don't care about doing research you can remove a lot of the scientific crew.

Only like a quarter of the people on our base actually have solid skill sets towards running the colony. The rest could be replaced by anyone.

 

[fasquardon]

Actually the Army Corp of Engineers are the best engineers on that planet at dealing with lack of supplies. That's what their training is meant to let them do, build something even when the enemy is blowing up everything around them.

Click to shrink...

Yes, on Earth.

My point is the way the Army Corp of Engineers do things does not work when applied to other planets, since it depends on a powerful logistics machine that humans can't send across interplanetary distances in this Quest.

The Junta sending this force at us will certainly be able to select able people from the US armed services, but the environment and material constraints in the setting will mean those able people will have to be, well, an awful lot like our able people to be able to have any chance of taking over.

Half these aren't even skilled jobs. You don't need to know anything to be a "laborer". Mining isn't something that takes particular skill.

Click to shrink...

...

...

Mining takes a number of very particular skills, especially when done in a place with no breathable atmosphere, extreme temperatures and air pressures that are so so low. Also, mining would need to be very mechanized in our colony, which involves its own skills.

And do you really think "surveyor" is an unskilled job? Really?

And as for the "labourers", physical work in a highly technical and dangerous environment happens to be highly skilled. Especially when you have to do that physical work in a space suit.

we absolutely cannot sit at the table of negotiation with them

Click to shrink...

Yes, I very much agree on this one.

You can't admit that these people will likely be diehard invaders with absolutely no compunctions to listen to reason, and then tell us that we should hope reason works before using another means of shutting them down.

Click to shrink...

I'm saying they may be die-hard maniacs (whatever reasons they use to justify their mania) and they may not be. We don't know yet and I think it is worth planning for both possibilities.

Parley means nothing to a junta that doesn't care what the rules are in it's own country, if we claim negotiation, they will do everything in their power to capture or kill delegates, bumrush the airlock, or plan a breach in an adjacent structure during negotiations. Talking only helps them, and only hurts us.

Click to shrink...

I don't get why you are assuming that we have to get within machine gun range of them in order to communicate.

It's not production, it's recycling, which can be made efficient and non-wasteful of scarce resources mostly during engineering design iterations. Chemical interactions are also important to know the most ideal mixtures for generating oxygen, which, even in a space colony, isn't going to just be sitting around in someone's head. Once systems are in place, it becomes as difficult as making sure resources necessary for function are used and following the schematics if things break down.

Click to shrink...

To reach Mars, our ships would need to have good air recycling, or they'd mass more than a battleship.

fasquardon

 

[inverted_helix]

My point is the way the Army Corp of Engineers do things does not work when applied to other planets, since it depends on a powerful logistics machine that humans can't send across interplanetary distances in this Quest.

Click to shrink...

The whole point of the Army Corp of Engineers is training people to build logistics from nothing. A group of engineers is meant to be able to build the logistics. That's their whole job. They don't rely on the army logistics machine, they build the army logistics machine.

Mining takes a number of very particular skills, especially when done in a place with no breathable atmosphere, extreme temperatures and air pressures that are so so low. Also, mining would need to be very mechanized in our colony, which involves its own skills.

And do you really think "surveyor" is an unskilled job? Really?

And as for the "labourers", physical work in a highly technical and dangerous environment happens to be highly skilled. Especially when you have to do that physical work in a space suit.

Click to shrink...

I didn't say anything about surveyors being unskilled. Though now that you bring it up, they are unnecessary to keeping the colony going.

And Laborers is not skilled, there's no way you can dress it up and make it skilled.

Mining is the sort of skill you learn in three months at most and do fine. Not the sort of thing that's difficult to cross train.

These are the sort of easy jobs that have always always been called unskilled.

Mining and laboring in SPACE doesn't actually require that much more skill. Space Suits are not rocket science. We train people for them in a matter of months as a side project. And they're already going to be trained in using a space suit just to get here.

The fact that your delusional enough to believe that soldiers can't act as laborers or that engineers are helpless is ridiculous.

The Junta sending this force at us will certainly be able to select able people from the US armed services, but the environment and material constraints in the setting will mean those able people will have to be, well, an awful lot like our able people to be able to have any chance of taking over.

Click to shrink...

An awful lot like our people of whom 45% are unskilled, and another 20% are completely unnecessary to running the colony. (Physicists not necessary, mathemetician not necessary, obstetrician not necessary [why you would ever bring one for a group for 40 people unless they were all already pregnant escapes me], surveyors still not necessary). Hell the architect isn't necessary either because they're generally abominable hybrids of artists and engineers just there to make the things look nicer. Why do we even have a glass blower? That's the sort of thing you use for custom art pieces, most glass these days is just molded. Between those two can get it up to 25% unnecessary. A blacksmith would be far more useful than the glassblower or the brick maker, and that's just because industrial metal working takes a lot more equipment.

We have 12 skilled individuals necessary to running the colony and 18 unskilled. They just need to bring a handful of army engineers, a couple military doctors, and maybe some specialists in biology and chemistry, though honestly the biologists and chemists are probably here for research rather than any actual necessity to the colony. The unskilled can easily be provided by soldiers once they're done killing the current inhabitants. There's probably a couple soldiers that grew up on farms that can handle the agriculture needs and eliminate the biologists.

 

[Useless Writer]

Holy crap, starting arguments left and right here.

How about I state the totally possible and not unrealistic possibility that the 120 or so individuals may have ten to fifteen people specifically trained for running the colony, in anticipation of the original colonists being resistant to the new world order?

@Powerofmind ,@inverted_helix ,@fasquardon . I love the conversation and the fact that you're taking this so seriously. But I feel the argument about the intelligence off the U.S. Military is getting out of hand. How about we agree to disagree that if they don't have the specialists to do a particular thing within their organization, their leaders were intelligent enough to find Loyal individuals who could act as those specialists?

Hell, creationist scientists exist. Why wouldn't Fascist or junta-supporting scientists also exist?

Edit: In addition, sorry this turn's results are taking so long. finding a good program for map building is... difficult.

 

[Useless Writer]

It's not like I deserved a relationship anyway, after all, that would mean I'm actually worth something, and we all know that's not true.
Anyway, my shitty life is no excuse not to post, so without further ado...

The month passed with new discoveries getting uncovered left and right.

The survey returned with a detailed map of the surrounding area.
Survey results
--
Thankfully there was no rioting when you revealed to the colonists that the United States was planning on annexing the colony in all but name. The mood has definitely turned more somber however.
(1d100+20 rolling... 72 (moderate success))
On a more positive note, several colonists have come forward with ideas on how to handle the oncoming threat. (New Combat, Governance, Diplomacy, and Research options)
--
Work continues steadily onward into constructing the Tool shop. Though the base suffers as your engineers and maintenance techs (read as: Laborers "Volunteering" to do grunt work) either lack the time or the tools to maintain the systems. (systems degrade 3%)
--
You write up a few messages to a few of the independent groups. Concealing your true message as best you can while hoping against hope that there aren't any intelligent moles within any of the recipient organizations. There is a general call in the vein of "There's gold in them thar hills" with an almost unsubtle emphasis on staying awhile. You offered support in starting up any colonies (that you can't technically provide yet) in exchange for a share in the bounty of Mars.
Now you just need to wait for a reply (Will complete next turn)
--
(Rolling 1d100+30... 122 (Critical Success))
EUREKA!!!

The final prototype was a success! Not only that, but in their off hours, one of your scientists discovered a chemical formula that allowed for a limited water-atmosphere exchange. Meaning so long as you have water to spend, you can create small amounts of atmosphere with the tools you currently have available. This process can only improve with further research.

(Atmospheric recycler project unlocked, Hydro to Atmo project unlocked,Advanced Water Electrolysis research project unlocked)
--

 

[Useless Writer]

So much to do, so little time...

Combat: Knowing what's there and how to kick the crap out of it. (Select one)
[ ] Reinforce Surface entrances and Facilities. (Ostensibly against dust storms, but you sneak in blast plating and Kevlar for the future, +10 to combat rolls[Defense](five turns))
[ ] Drill security officers (+5 permanent bonus to combat (three turns))
[ ] Draft Defensive strategies (+10 to combat rolls[Defense]Susceptible to espionage[Bonus disappears] (one turn))

Governance: Keeping everyone from killing each other (Select one)
[ ] Encourage open debate (Everyone has mixed feelings on the matter, let their voices be heard!)
[ ] Controlled Discourse (Everyone has mixed feelings on the matter, keep things civil)

Economics: Providing for the Colony (Locked out for two more turns)
[X] Construct Add on (Locks out Machine Shop)
-Tool Shop (reduces wear and tear penalties by producing and maintaining tools, even when the Machine shop is occupied (Upgradable))

Diplomacy: Keeping in contact with the world around you (Select one)(Satellites will be out of range in two turns)
[X] Contact Independent groups for Aid (Waiting on Response, one turn)

Research: Discovering the world, one lab disaster at a time. (Select one)
[ ] Hydroponics (Unlocks Hydroponics bay, quick)
[ ] Advanced Water Electrolysis (Improve hydro-to-atmo project, long)
[ ] Seismological disturbance tracking (unlocks Disaster prediction software (Earthquake), long)
[ ] Atmospheric disturbance tracking (unlocks Disaster prediction software (Windstorm/duststorm/Sandstorm), very long, requires Satellite)
[ ] Applications of Biology on Mars (opens new research, medium)
[ ] Applications of Chemistry on Mars (opens new research, medium)
[ ] Applications of Physics on Mars (opens new research, medium)
[ ] Basic Military theory (opens new research, new combat, new economic, quick)

 

[Powerofmind]

[X] Reinforce Surface entrances and Facilities. (Ostensibly against dust storms, but you sneak in blast plating and Kevlar for the future, +10 to combat rolls[Defense](five turns))
[X] Encourage open debate (Everyone has mixed feelings on the matter, let their voices be heard!)
[X] Hydroponics (Unlocks Hydroponics bay, quick)

-Ostensible protection against dust storms probably also protects against dust storms (give we have to wait something like 30 more turns for the invasion).
-Open debate will hold things pretty well with the communal environment we've put together.
-Something something something low hanging fruit (plus food is the only thing we don't have a recycling program to support a low production with).

 

[Uncle]

[X] Reinforce Surface entrances and Facilities. (Ostensibly against dust storms, but you sneak in blast plating and Kevlar for the future, +10 to combat rolls[Defense](five turns))

[X] Controlled Discourse (Everyone has mixed feelings on the matter, keep things civil)

[X] Hydroponics (Unlocks Hydroponics bay, quick)

 

[Kelenas]

[X] Reinforce Surface entrances and Facilities. (Ostensibly against dust storms, but you sneak in blast plating and Kevlar for the future, +10 to combat rolls[Defense](five turns))
[X] Controlled Discourse (Everyone has mixed feelings on the matter, keep things civil)
[X] Hydroponics (Unlocks Hydroponics bay, quick)

 

[Teen Spirit]

[X] Reinforce Surface entrances and Facilities. (Ostensibly against dust storms, but you sneak in blast plating and Kevlar for the future, +10 to combat rolls[Defense](five turns))

[X] Controlled Discourse (Everyone has mixed feelings on the matter, keep things civil)

[X] Hydroponics (Unlocks Hydroponics bay, quick)

 

[Terrabrand]

[X] Powerofmind

 

[PyrrosWarrior]

[X] Powerofmind

 

[jwolfe_beta]

[X] Reinforce Surface entrances and Facilities. (Ostensibly against dust storms, but you sneak in blast plating and Kevlar for the future, +10 to combat rolls[Defense](five turns))
[X] Controlled Discourse (Everyone has mixed feelings on the matter, keep things civil)
[X] Hydroponics (Unlocks Hydroponics bay, quick)

 

[inverted_helix]

[X] Reinforce Surface entrances and Facilities. (Ostensibly against dust storms, but you sneak in blast plating and Kevlar for the future, +10 to combat rolls[Defense](five turns))
[X] Controlled Discourse (Everyone has mixed feelings on the matter, keep things civil)
[X] Hydroponics (Unlocks Hydroponics bay, quick)

Honestly keeping violence from happening in a surface habitation module seems a good idea to prevent catastrophe.

 

[veekie]

[X] Reinforce Surface entrances and Facilities. (Ostensibly against dust storms, but you sneak in blast plating and Kevlar for the future, +10 to combat rolls[Defense](five turns))
[X] Controlled Discourse (Everyone has mixed feelings on the matter, keep things civil)
[X] Hydroponics (Unlocks Hydroponics bay, quick)

 

[Andelevion]

[X] Reinforce Surface entrances and Facilities. (Ostensibly against dust storms, but you sneak in blast plating and Kevlar for the future, +10 to combat rolls[Defense](five turns))
[X] Controlled Discourse (Everyone has mixed feelings on the matter, keep things civil)
[X] Hydroponics (Unlocks Hydroponics bay, quick)

 

[Useless Writer]

Side note, I updated the settings on the google doc for the colony map. You guys can view it now.