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2025-AT-08: Staff and Aleksey A E

Parth said:
Mate, if I was taking someone's side I would have made that incredibly clear. If it isn't clear, then the safe assumption is that I'm not taking anyone's side.

Like I said above, I looked at the available evidence and then posted a theory, nothing more.
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You asked. If a majority of people are reading your post in a certain way, then it's on you to clear that up. We just had a case about this, too. Go read 2025-AT-06: Staff and Kingcrusader Upheld to find out how insisting everyone else is wrong works out.
 
Arthur Frayn said:
What theory is that, exactly? Because if everyone thinks you're doing apologia for a Literal Nazi, maybe step back and consider why people think you're doing apologia for a Literal Nazi. Just spell this shit out, man; quit the weird "I already said it mate" stuff. Clearly, no one is grasping the point you're trying to make, so could you please say it one more time to the people in the back?
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I said it right here.

Also, do keep in mind that just because the majority believes something it doesn't mean they're in the right. Or do I need to spell out all of the problems with that line of reasoning.
Parth said:
Mate this is the text from the mod post that was made when the thread was closed.

Just what sort of conclusion should I take from that?

If everyone thinks that I was implying that their behaviour was somehow acceptable, then your going to have to explain to me what part of what I said implied that?
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Elfalpha said:
You asked. If a majority of people are reading your post in a certain way, then it's on you to clear that up. We just had a case about this, too. Go read 2025-AT-06: Staff and Kingcrusader Upheld to find out how insisting everyone else is wrong works out.
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What exactly do you think I've been doing?

If none of you want to believe me, then that's on all of you.
 
Parth said:
I said it right here.

Also, do keep in mind that just because the majority believes something it doesn't mean they're in the right. Or do I need to spell out all of the problems with that line of reasoning.


What exactly do you think I've been doing?

If none of you want to believe me, then that's on all of you.
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My dude if the majority are believing you're accidentally doing Nazi apologia, uh yeah man it's kind've incumbent on you to (re)-explain yourself.

You cannot beam pure intent into people's heads, especially over a text based medium like the internet. I cannot read your mind, and your words are stripped of all context beyond the immediate "this is about the topic of this thread (probably)".

When I say "Please, restate your position", saying "I already did" and linking to a seemingly unrelated post isn't really conducive to discussion. If you are trying to convince me of something, surely it behooves you to state it in a way I can understand; saying "not my problem if you can't understand" when the question is "Wait are you saying the behavior of a Nazi was justified?" is kind've an asshole move.

This is a recurring thing with you, my dude, and it's going to keep getting you into trouble. Communication is a two way street about finding ways to mutually understand someone, not saying what you think is a diamond hard perfect encapsulation of your thoughts at the moment and then going "lol idiot" when someone says "Sorry I didn't quite get that."
 
I mean, looking at everything else about the poster in question: the islamophobia and transphobia, the Bandera apologism, the whole anti-Roma stuff complete with casual slur use, the doubling down on everything in the tribunal...

...well, any reasonable benefit of the doubt about how "I only bought a neo-nazi patch to spite the people who think wearing nazi patches is bad because I was angry but I'm totally not a nazi myself, trust me bro" is honestly non-existent. Even more so considering how in the tribunal, over two years after the incident, they not only don't say "yeah it was wrong but I was really angry at the moment" or anything in that line but actually double down on defending it and say that it was "a funny way to troll Russians".
 
gyrobot said:
Unless rule 1 was violated the mods can't just throw people out. They do get thrown out due to their disregard for the rules here. But it's through the tribunal that people can see what kind of people get perma'd.

That said, being banned for Rule 2 is still proof SV believes in the Tribunal system and their example will serve as an example to others if they ever show up in other communities.
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I'm not sure what the numbers are but, excluding bots/spammers, I feel like the permabans with/without tribunal are pretty even.
 
Parth said:
Mate, if I was taking someone's side I would have made that incredibly clear. If it isn't clear, then the safe assumption is that I'm not taking anyone's side.

Like I said above, I looked at the available evidence and then posted a theory, nothing more.
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Your original post was unclear, in ways that Elfalpha explained pretty well. You cleared it up later, so I don't still think you were trying to defend that position, but your "if I was taking someone's side I would have made that clear" assumes that all posters are familiar with your posting history. This is never a good assumption. There are always people who are either new to the board, have never encountered you, or just don't remember how you tend to post.

So, again: sorry about misreading your initial post, but it was unclear, and the context you provided later was not implicitly present as you seem to think it was.
 
It's crazy that there are like half a dozen different horribly hateful things that could have been the last strike here. The death threat stood out to me personally. But I was honestly surprised he was still on the board after the Nazi paraphernalia.

The average hateful person would just post a hate symbol. Aleksey A E not only did that but also searched for a listing for one, bought it with real actual money, unpacked it from the shipping it came in, calmly took a picture, edited and cropped that picture, uploaded it to an image hosting site and then posted it. At no point did he think "hey maybe this is a bad idea". I think there's an argument that maybe that person shouldn't get another chance after they say something else incredibly hateful lol.
 
Yeah, add me to the list of people who was shocked he didn't get spamcleaned off the site after his open and explicit announcement that he was a no-shit serious Nazi (there's no other reason to buy and display Nazi paraphenalia unless you are literally a museum).
 
Kadmus said:
(there's no other reason to buy and display Nazi paraphenalia unless you are literally a museum).
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Uh. Up until that original post about the Black Sun symbol, I - and probably a lot more people here - didn't actually *know* that it was a far right symbol. Doing a quick search on Amazon, you can actually find it as being sold by amazon.com itself.

Tbh, the thing looks like it's something out of Norse/Viking history, which the Nazi bastard appropriated quite a bit for their own purpose. Looking up the history of the thing - thank you Wikipedia - it appeared in exactly one place in actual Nazi Germany, albeit, Himmler's personal HQ - and doesn't actually show up again until 1991 when it's featured in a book.

Not my personal esthetic, but I can easily see people not knowing better and buying something with the design on it.

And ... since my memory drug this up, I remember some stores in Asia when I visited there last, where you could buy clothing for airsoft games that featured replica uniforms from the various WW2 participants - including Waffen SS uniforms. I only visited the store because I saw the window display and was boggled at the shear amount of airsoft weapons they had and only noticed the uniforms at the back.
 
imya t'loak said:
Not my personal esthetic, but I can easily see people not knowing better and buying something with the design on it.
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People, yes.
Aleksey, specifically, given the context of the conversation wherein he did so as "protest" of people pointing out that the black sun symbol was linked to the Nazis?
Absofuckinglutely not.
 
Arthur Frayn said:
My dude if the majority are believing you're accidentally doing Nazi apologia, uh yeah man it's kind've incumbent on you to (re)-explain yourself.

You cannot beam pure intent into people's heads, especially over a text based medium like the internet. I cannot read your mind, and your words are stripped of all context beyond the immediate "this is about the topic of this thread (probably)".

When I say "Please, restate your position", saying "I already did" and linking to a seemingly unrelated post isn't really conducive to discussion. If you are trying to convince me of something, surely it behooves you to state it in a way I can understand; saying "not my problem if you can't understand" when the question is "Wait are you saying the behavior of a Nazi was justified?" is kind've an asshole move.

This is a recurring thing with you, my dude, and it's going to keep getting you into trouble. Communication is a two way street about finding ways to mutually understand someone, not saying what you think is a diamond hard perfect encapsulation of your thoughts at the moment and then going "lol idiot" when someone says "Sorry I didn't quite get that."
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Mate, just what do you want me to do.

I linked you to a post explaining exactly how I came to the conclusion I did.

If you still don't get it after I explained it in that post, then that's on you.
 
I'm pretty sure that yeeting people isn't something the mods can actually do. My understanding is that responsibility is reserved for the Directors, especially if it regards actions not taken on the board.
 
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Seriously, I don't know where this idea people have that "their communication is 100% crystal clear and foolproof and when nobody understands them it's proof of a conspiracy" comes from but the forum would be better off without it, as would its adherents. Just like, communicate.
 
CV12Hornet said:
And if they had extended that grace toward him saying all Russians are orcs and must be exterminated I don't think anyone would complain.
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Like...objectively not true? At least from an enforcement standpoint? People have been hit for that and should be.

Lightwhispers said:
assumes that all posters are familiar with your posting history.
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Honestly familiarity with Parth's posting history of dodging and weaving about fascism apologia in other threads, of which there is an existent tribunal for, would make the situation for Parth worse, not better.
 
Honestly I think the moderation and admin need to explain why only this latest incident was enough to push for a perma ban rather than like... literally any single incident listed? What the actual hell?
 
Fey'lya said:
Seriously, I don't know where this idea people have that "their communication is 100% crystal clear and foolproof and when nobody understands them it's proof of a conspiracy" comes from
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I actually know the answer to this one, but I'm not sure I can articulate it clearly. I understand the answer very clearly. I'm not certain about my capabilities to articulate.

It feels good to be the only right person in a wrong world. It can be addictive. There's also a very clear cultural contagion related to this sensation. A lot of cultures hold a certain amount of reverence for this emotional state.

Also, from an internal perspective a major part of the experience of being autistic is being the only right person in a wrong world.

There's a reason my extremely autistic family has a motto that goes "In a world where everyone but you in crazy, who should be locked up for who's safety?" (Answer, the one sane person should be locked up for their own safety, it's more efficient than locking everyone else up)

It hurts seeing other people pull off social maneuvers that we can't. We try to imitate them. Fail. "I'm right, everyone else is wrong!!!"

Feels better than admitting to ourselves we misread the situation and how our own social status affects it. Especially since we inevitably have a lower social status. Which hurts to admit.

All these things, and some others, add together. Am I clear?
 
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Look, I've been a long time lurker and reader. Very rarely do I speak up here on SV. Heck, i think I've only ever posted in User Fiction before this. So maybe this is only worth a grain of salt coming from me, but the fact is that Aleksey had 6 serious Rule 2 infractions prior to the PM Conversation that finally incited this tribunal, of which one of them is also marked as a Rule 3 infraction. That alone is almost awe inspiring, but what is even more egregious is the wide range of groups in the crossfire. Others have stated in this thread that they were surprised Aleksey wasn't banned long before their behavior escalated to emotional blackmailing, and I will echo those feelings: something should have been done sooner.

As a side note, I just cannot get over Aleksey's behavior within the tribunal. I just... I lost braincells trying to comprehend the logic behind making some of those posts. This goes beyond the standard behavioral issues you'd expect to see in a tribunal like "I was right" defenses and debating councillors (though they do get in both of those). The unmitigated disregard for what was posted. I mean, Datcord literally said in the opening post (Emphasis mine):
Datcord said:
2.) The member who reported this conversation has been informed that some portions of the contents may be made public, with identifying information removed.
3.) As the identity of the reporting user is not a relevant matter, it will not be revealed and Councilors should refrain from speculation. If necessary we will redact any identifying information prior to any public release of the matter, and may remove any participant who flouts this direction.
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To face that warning head on, reveal identifying information anyways, get rebuffed for it, and immediately double down on trying to reveal said identifying information, is perhaps the single worst decision I have seen within a permaban tribunal, or even any tribunal here on SV. The fact that Aleksey was even allowed to remain an active participant in that tribunal after that shows... I don't really know how to put it. I'm just astonished it got to this point at all, I guess.
 
I do think weaponizing the threat of hurting yourself is extremely unacceptable behavior, whether it was done cynically and insincerely or spitefully and sincerely, and should be grounds for a perma in itself.

And then there was, uh, all that other stuff.
 
ZurigaSungama said:
Oh, I know this one! Here:
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Ok fine.

When I came into the thread, I clicked on the link in the OP.

I then proceeded to read the tribunal, clicking on the links within the tribunal, reading the staff's case against said user.

After I got done reading the tribunal, I scrolled through this thread and noticed multiple people asking why they weren't banned for the nazi merch comment.

Now, since I clicked on the links and read the staff's case against said user, I also noticed the reason for why the thread that said user made that post in was locked.

Which is and I'll quote it again.

As some of the rhetoric in this thread has evidently convinced a Ukrainian poster to purchase fascist iconography out of spite, it no longer merits a continued existence.
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So after looking at the questions other users asked, and the fact that a moderator themselves said that they closed the thread because some of the rethoric in said thread convinced a Ukranian poster to purchase nazi icongraphy out of spite.

I concluded that the reason they didn't get banned is because the staff accepted that a thread taking putins propaganda about nazis in the Ukrainian govenment seriously, pissed off said Ukrainian post and convinced the staff to lock the thread.

Because I can't for the life of me think of any other reason why they didn't get banned for that.

Everything I said was based on what I could see from the staff's actions in that thread.

If you don't like my explanation then take it up with the staff.
 
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