"Yes, yes. I brought them with me," Gregor replied, taking the hint and beginning to rifle through his bag. "I can lend you the first one if you want to read it, but I will want it back before I leave."
Oh god, we let a couple of nerds and engineers (yes, not repeating myself) go off on a trip without adult supervision. Also, I endorse the beer decision. Mmmmm, Czech beer...
What is new is how we are making use of molybdenum..."
Oh, hello there...
 
Nicolau takes the train
Nicolau Takes the Train

Nicolau Costa looked at the small pile of his remaining possessions. The small toolbox would fit with little adjustment into the corner of the rectangular guitar case; the clothes that he had not sold or given away would fit easily inside of the suitcase.

With some reluctance, he took the small stack of books and put it aside, packing clothing and toiletries in the suitcase. Books, he thought to himself, are dangerous things. He was not sure what the his new employers might make of the collection of books he had been using to teach himself German: Spanish and German copies of Das Kapital, Spanish and German copies of the Communist Manifesto, German and Spanish printings of the Holy Bible, and a German-Spanish pocket dictionary he had finally found last week in a new bookstore.

With reluctance, he tucked the pocket dictionary into his suitcase, along with a much-loved copy of Don Quixote and a well-thumbed book of useful tables. The other books he would sell at the corner bookstore – they were not useful to him, and he might need spending money along the way.

It is a pity, he thought to himself, they were interesting reading. He had never been particularly political or religious, but he thought he could see now why people found it so intensely interesting, and it was nice to know the origins of the quotes that he heard so often while out and about. He stuck his room key in an envelope and headed downstairs, pushing the envelope in through his landlord's mail slot and briskly walking on before the landlord could come to the door to see him leaving.

Rent had been past due, a little bit. Nicolau felt bad about that, but there wasn't much to be done. He briskly walked by a watching policeman, and ducked into the corner bookstore. The policeman followed, curious about a young man moving hastily with a suitcase and an instrument case.

"Excuse me, how much could I get for these?" Nicolau asked, dropping the stack of books on the counter.

The clerk spared a nervous glance behind him. "Ah. Well, not much of interest here, really, we don't deal in these sorts of books usually..."

"What? I bought them here," Nicolau said. "I know you don't want to give me the same price back, half maybe?"

"You must be mistaken, you have us confused with some other bookseller," the clerk said, looking over his shoulder.

"What? Don't jerk me around like that. I may be new in the neighborhood, but that's no reason to cheat me. You can at least give me half back what I paid," Nicolau looked at the clerk crossly.

"You're delusional. Fine, here, have some money. Consider it a charitable donation. Go use it to get your head fixed." The clerk pushed some coins on the counter.

Nicolau swept them away before the clerk could change his mind, hurrying out of the bookstore. The policeman stayed in the bookstore to talk with the clerk as Nicolau headed to the train station for his ride to Barcelona.

He boarded the train with a few minutes to spare. Peering out the window at the disappearing station, he saw a pair of policemen rush out to the station, pointing down the tracks at the train. Perhaps they had meant to take the train to Barcelona as well, Nicolau thought to himself. It is a pity, you would think police officers would be well-organized enough to get to the station on time.

The train stopped in what would have been in plain sight of the station in Barcelona had the weather been clearer. Some unannounced delay or mechanical failure. Unfortunate. He had a ship to catch, and he wanted to hurry to do so. Nicolau let himself out of the train, walking across the tracks in the rain to the road. Passing by the station, he noticed a couple of policemen arriving at the station. A minute later, he could hear the train resume its motion, moving the last quarter mile into the station.

Nicolau shook his head. If he had known it was a short delay, he might have waited, but he'd had no way of knowing that. He made it down to the docks without further incident. Wet and a little tired, he patiently explained that while his reservation hadn't been paid for, yet, and he didn't quite have enough money to do so, his employer would provide payment in full at the other end. After a small bribe – described as a "surcharge for personal consideration" - he made his way aboard the ship.

Sentimentally, he watched from the deck as the familiar city of Barcelona disappeared, and then retreated to his steerage quarters to carefully count his remaining money. He felt a little nervous, reflecting over how the terms offered to him had suddenly changed for the worse after he had agreed to take the job. Perhaps they would change again when he arrived. If they did, he decided, he would try to find work elsewhere in Austria-Hungary. Perhaps he could make money as a musician for a little while – that did not require speaking the language very well, and it was a very good way to meet people.
 
Nicolau had better be that Mathematics genius that Severino said he was, otherwise, I'm thinking Severino is an Italian agent and we might have to kill him.
 
Oh my god, my initial impression is that he's an innocent cinnamon roll that's too precious for this violent soon to be revolution filled world. I don't understand how he's survived for this long if he can legitimately not draw a connection between him owning extremely revolutionary books and policemen chasing him.

Also, he's is most certainly a smart individual, considering the buffs he's providing on the information page.

Not sure about Severino yet, but if he is, I think OP was trying to tip us off earlier with his admiration of Mussolini.

I'm very much liking these little side story bits! It's nice insight and character building without being forced into the main turns.
 
I've done the behind-the-scenes update on status for the next long turn. We have some excitement coming up (you may thank the dice for that) but that won't start to be revealed until next update.

In related news, I would like to close voting on the current short turn soon. The vote totals are significantly lower than the previous turn, and I haven't started writing the next main story update yet, so let's give it until Tuesday evening to close voting.
Adhoc vote count started by tomwritestuff on Oct 29, 2017 at 2:33 PM, finished with 50 posts and 8 votes.

  • [X] Call someone in the intelligence service to let them know what Bernd was doing when he got killed.
    [X] 152mm top / 305mm sides / 432mm face / 432mm barbettes
    [X] "So the two of you are going to have a duel," you say.
    [X] get the reverse-engineered 75mm into widespread production quickly in anticipation of widespread demand.
    [X] "I'm sorry, but I didn't want to disappoint you when I rushed through. I wasn't expecting to spend very long here."
    -[X] "If the two of you must get this out of your system… it will be swords to first blood, no more. Do you understand me?"
    [X] Marie, of course, no longer provides that banter even when she is in the office. She has been icily distant towards you in particular, although not in general.
    [X] Marie said she was waiting for an "appropriate time" to leave your apartment this morning after spending the night so that nobody would notice. And then called in "sick."
    [X] 100mm
    [X] "How pleasant to know you look forward to my company. Would you like to come back up to Vienna with me? We could attend an opera."
    [X] … the lanky figure moved with the gracelessness of one who has only recently attained his full length of limb.
    [X] EMULATE whatever the Italians and French are up to next.
    [X] 80mm
    [X] "That's not going to happen," you say, voice full of dour certainty.
    -[X] I have not the time to deal with these shenanigans. I will "convince" the man when he comes to that this is a place of work, not a place to saunter about like a brothel in Lisbon. In exchange, I expect that you will rescind this poorly thought out challenge.
    [X] … the lanky figure moved with the gracelessness of one who has only recently attained his full length of limb.​
    [X] 350mm barbette x 350mm face x 300mm rear x 200mm sides x 135mm top
    [X] get the reverse-engineered 75mm into widespread production quickly in anticipation of widespread demand.
    [X] EMULATE Whatever the United States are up to next.
    [X] Call Krupp to let them know what happened to your promised evidence of Italian treachery.​
    [X] 100mm turret faces, 30mm splinter protection on the sides, rear and roof.​
    [X] 410mm turret face, 280mm sides, 250mm for the rear of the turret, 175mm turret roof. Barbettes will be 330mm at the upper barbettes, thinning to 240mm for the lower barbettes in the citadel. Conning tower armor will be 380mm.​
    -[X] I am not about to allow a dueling scandal erupt in this office. Do you want budget cuts to happen? That's what will happen if you go through with this silly duel.​
    [X] Marie transferred to another department.​
    -[X] "I suppose that's a matter between the two of you to work out. So, let's talk about this metastyrol some more."
    [X] … the figure had a suspicious bulge in his jacket pocket.
    --[X] Moving quickly, you swapped the live rounds in the guns for some soap rounds you kept on hand "just in case". It wouldn't do for your foreign affairs expert and scientist to kill each other.
    -[X] "Right. I think I have a pair of dueling pistols in my office, and Severino should wake up soon enough, let's go outside and get things ready, shall we?"
    -[X] (spending the night on your couch)
    -[X] (spending the night in your bed)
    [X] Whatever the Dutch are up to next.
    [X] EMULATE Whatever the Japanese are up to
    [X] 127mm
    [X] inquire into that Swiss company that has been kicking up quite the storm lately, Oerlikon. They have recently acquired the assets of the German SEMAG company, and have been on the vanguard of light cannon development.
 
[X] Marie, of course, no longer provides that banter even when she is in the office. She has been icily distant towards you in particular, although not in general.
[X] "So the two of you are going to have a duel," you say.
-[X] "If the two of you must get this out of your system… it will be swords to first blood, no more. Do you understand me?"
[X] … the lanky figure moved with the gracelessness of one who has only recently attained his full length of limb.
[X] "How pleasant to know you look forward to my company. Would you like to come back up to Vienna with me? We could attend an opera."
[X] Call someone in the intelligence service to let them know what Bernd was doing when he got killed.
[X] 152mm top / 305mm sides / 432mm face / 432mm barbettes
[X] 100mm
[X] EMULATE Hawkins class cruiser
[X] EMULATE Koester class cruiser
[X] AVOID Omaha class cruiser
[X] AVOID Svetlana-class cruiser
[X] EMULATE whatever the Italians and French are up to next.
[X] get the reverse-engineered 75mm into widespread production quickly in anticipation of widespread demand.

Alright real talk here, Marie being anything other than pissed with Maximilian after telling her to act professionally, in light of his own failings there, is the outcome that is most realistic and not final. Sleeping with him requires a pretty tortured chain of circumstances and attitudes that do not stand up well to scrutiny, and while Maximilian is not looking to fire her or have her transferred sleeping with her impulsively after a bitter argument sort of makes a mockery of his reflections about his father's conduct. Now that she is angry is something that can be fixed as a new equilibrium in the office is established, though I suppose if there were support for a more definitive outcome I'd certainly consider it.

As far as Severino and the scientist, this is early 20th century Vienna and Severino is an aristocrat. The scientist friend is outraged and as the challenger is not in position to back down. This duel is happening sooner or later, so we might as well fix the terms so neither is at threat of dying and have them get it out of their system as soon as possible. Subterfuge like the soap bullets is, eh, pretty contrived to have them on hand, while fencing to the first blood is a time-honored tradition.

I'm not even sure what exactly is up with the follower, but I think it's a choice between Maximilian's suitors and then a couple of other people. The lanky figure may be Nicolau? I'm not sure, to be honest, but it seems like the least troublesome choice.

And yeah I want to see more of Elizabeth. If people are concerned she's too unconventional and forward then inviting her to the Opera is good way to gauge how she behaves in polite society. And of course Viennese Opera is worthwhile in and of itself. Maximilian needs to get out more.

As far as the cruisers while we probably do ultimately want something like the classic Treaty Cruiser for a variety of reasons, the primary purpose of the KuK Kriegsmarine is to the fight in the Mediterranean and that means countering what the other Mediterranean fleets come up with. So we have to keep an eye on the French and Italians and be able to match their capabilities, at least closely enough so that they don't gain a decisive advantage by making use of some particularly innovative or niche design.
 
[X] Marie, of course, no longer provides that banter even when she is in the office. She has been icily distant towards you in particular, although not in general.
[X] "So the two of you are going to have a duel," you say.
-[X] "If the two of you must get this out of your system… it will be swords to first blood, no more. Do you understand me?"
[X] … the lanky figure moved with the gracelessness of one who has only recently attained his full length of limb.
[X] "How pleasant to know you look forward to my company. Would you like to come back up to Vienna with me? We could attend an opera."
[X] Call someone in the intelligence service to let them know what Bernd was doing when he got killed.
[X] 152mm top / 305mm sides / 432mm face / 432mm barbettes
[X] 100mm
[X] EMULATE Hawkins class cruiser
[X] EMULATE Koester class cruiser
[X] AVOID Omaha class cruiser
[X] AVOID Svetlana-class cruiser
[X] EMULATE whatever the Italians and French are up to next.
[X] get the reverse-engineered 75mm into widespread production quickly in anticipation of widespread demand.
 
(RoW naval construction update bulletin)
A list of current major naval projects and their status, as of December, 1923:

Battleships:

First rate powers:
  • US: All three ships of the Colorado class have been completed. Four battlecruisers in construction have been broken up in place, and two are being completed as aircraft carriers.
  • UK: The two ships of the Nelson class are still under construction.
Second rate powers:
  • Russia: The Ivan Grozny has been launched, though not yet commissioned (Black Sea Fleet). The other two members of the Pyotr class (Baltic Sea Fleet) are further behind.
  • Germany: Construction on the Prussia class has slowed considerably.
  • Japan: The Tosa and Amagi class ships have been canceled, with two being converted into aircraft carriers.
Third rate powers:
  • France: France has begun to convert the four Courbet class battleships into aircraft carriers. Very little is known about how far along this project is.
  • Italy: The reconstruction of the Andrea Doria class is proving complex.
  • Ottomans: The SMS Bayern, now Sultan Muhteşem Süleyman I, has an Ottoman crew.
  • Greece: The Greeks are engaged in a massive personnel shake-up in order to staff their new battleships. The predreadnoughts Kilkis and Lemnos have been sitting at dock undergoing "routine maintenance" for quite some time now.
Cruisers

First rate powers:
  • US: Three Omaha class cruisers are still under construction.
  • UK: Two Hawkins class cruisers are still under construction, along with three members of a long-delayed lighter cruiser class, the Emerald.
Second rate powers:
  • Russia: It is thought that the Russians will soon decide whether to follow the Austro-Hungarian route of modernizing predreadnoughts into what will legally be called cruisers, or replacing them with new construction.
  • Germany: The final member of the Koester class will be commissioned very soon. No replacement projects are visible.
  • Japan: The Japanese reportedly have somewhere between two and four cruisers under construction.
Third rate powers:
  • France: France is known to have a class of three cruisers that were laid down before the signing of the treaty; these are still under construction.
  • Italy: Older armored cruisers have been regunned. Construction has not begun on any new cruiser class as of yet.
  • Netherlands: The Dutch parliament is known to be debating the subject of purchasing new cruisers and is actively considering bids.
 
[X] Marie said she was waiting for an "appropriate time" to leave your apartment this morning after spending the night so that nobody would notice. And then called in "sick."
-[X] (spending the night on your couch)
[X] "So the two of you are going to have a duel," you say.
-[X] "If the two of you must get this out of your system… it will be swords to first blood, no more. Do you understand me?"
[X] … the lanky figure moved with the gracelessness of one who has only recently attained his full length of limb.
[X] "I'm sorry, but I didn't want to disappoint you when I rushed through. I wasn't expecting to spend very long here."
[X] Call someone in the intelligence service to let them know what Bernd was doing when he got killed.
[X] 152mm top / 305mm sides / 432mm face / 432mm barbettes
[X] 80mm
[X] EMULATE Hawkins class cruiser
[X] EMULATE Koester class cruiser
[X] AVOID Omaha class cruiser
[X] AVOID Svetlana-class cruiser
[X] EMULATE whatever the Italians and French are up to next.
[X] get the reverse-engineered 75mminto widespread production quickly inanticipation of widespread demand.

I like the vignettes, excellent world building and minor character development.
 
The biggest thing I think we have here that directly influences us is the potential to get the contract for the Dutch cruisers at Fiume, Pola, or Trieste. It would give us much needed cruiser building experience, as well as a chance for the shipyards to test techniques on a ship that we aren't paying for.


I think we've struck gold against Italy. Considering the IRL refits of Italian battleships, the extended refits of the Andrea Dorias here will eat up a lot of the available funding for cruisers, unless Mussolini does a surprise coup with his blackshirts and sends military spending into the stratosphere.

I'm holding out hope that the French aircraft carriers are going to suck. If there is a dreadnought ship more terrible to convert into a carrier than the Tegetthoffs it would have to be the Courbet class. The single example of French interwar carriers, French aircraft carrier Béarn - Wikipedia , doesn't exactly strike me as impressive either.

@tomwritestuff About how many more long turns will there be until at least the Alpen is complete? I would think that if the Russians have a launched, if not necessarily completed Pyotr Velikiy in the field, then we shouldn't be more than a year and a half behind.

These were the only two Russian predreadnoughts i could find that seem like they could be easily downgunned into cruisers. Otherwise, there were also some 12k-13k ton predreadnoughts that you could also convert if you were willing to replace the armor belt with a thinner one or something of that nature.

10k~ ton:

Russian battleship Rostislav - Wikipedia

Russian battleship Poltava (1894) - Wikipedia

12-13k~ ton:

Russian battleship Potemkin - Wikipedia

Russian battleship Tsesarevich - Wikipedia

Russian battleship Evstafi - Wikipedia

Russian battleship Ioann Zlatoust - Wikipedia
 
Last edited:
So I did some work on the Alpen drawing as it looks in the information section. Did some scaling to shipbucket standards including taking line drawings of Ersatz Monarch turrets, scaling them properly and putting the turrets to the hull. When we finalize the last details, then I'll do a complete shipbucket of Alpen including sideview. One thing though, from the info we have now, that is one deep riding ship at 41 feet of draft, that's ten more than the Colorados.

Anywho, here's Alpen with properly scaled turrets to her size.

 
[X] Marie, of course, no longer provides that banter even when she is in the office. She has been icily distant towards you in particular, although not in general.
[X] "So the two of you are going to have a duel," you say.
-[X] "If the two of you must get this out of your system… it will be swords to first blood, no more. Do you understand me?"
[X] … the lanky figure moved with the gracelessness of one who has only recently attained his full length of limb.
[X] "How pleasant to know you look forward to my company. Would you like to come back up to Vienna with me? We could attend an opera."
[X] Call someone in the intelligence service to let them know what Bernd was doing when he got killed.
[X] 152mm top / 305mm sides / 432mm face / 432mm barbettes
[X] 100mm
[X] EMULATE Hawkins class cruiser
[X] EMULATE Koester class cruiser
[X] AVOID Omaha class cruiser
[X] AVOID Svetlana-class cruiser
[X] EMULATE whatever the Italians and French are up to next.
[X] get the reverse-engineered 75mm into widespread production quickly in anticipation of widespread demand.
 
[X] Marie, of course, no longer provides that banter even when she is in the office. She has been icily distant towards you in particular, although not in general.
[X] "So the two of you are going to have a duel," you say.
-[X] "If the two of you must get this out of your system… it will be swords to first blood, no more. Do you understand me?"
[X] … the lanky figure moved with the gracelessness of one who has only recently attained his full length of limb.
[X] "How pleasant to know you look forward to my company. Would you like to come back up to Vienna with me? We could attend an opera."
[X] Call someone in the intelligence service to let them know what Bernd was doing when he got killed.
[X] 152mm top / 305mm sides / 432mm face / 432mm barbettes
[X] 100mm
[X] EMULATE Hawkins class cruiser
[X] EMULATE Koester class cruiser
[X] AVOID Omaha class cruiser
[X] AVOID Svetlana-class cruiser
[X] EMULATE whatever the Italians and French are up to next.
[X] get the reverse-engineered 75mm into widespread production quickly in anticipation of widespread demand.
 
@tomwritestuff About how many more long turns will there be until at least the Alpen is complete? I would think that if the Russians have a launched, if not necessarily completed Pyotr Velikiy in the field, then we shouldn't be more than a year and a half behind.
Well, the base timeline to bear in mind is the established speed for Austro-Hungarian ship construction.

Here's the RL references (time to launch / time to commission, give or take some rounding errors in months):
  • Erzherzog Franz Ferdinand: 12/33
  • Radetzky: 19/38
  • Zrínyi (Fiume): 15/32

  • Viribus Unitis: 11/29
  • Tegetthoff: 18/34
  • Prinz Eugen: 20/30
  • Szent István (Fiume): 23/47
The three ships of the Radetzy class were significantly smaller than the four ships of the Tegetthoff class. We're looking at a typical time of about 30-36 months total for an Austro-Hungarian capital ship built at Trieste. The Viribus sets a very impressive standard for getting the first ship of a class out of the gate quickly.

Now, that said, you have on the one hand a high budget priority; on the other hand, they're working from blueprints that weren't finished when they started building the ship, thanks to the political haste involved, and there are some delays from design changes or mistakes (there was some aft reconstruction).

We will have a choice shortly - a partially retroactive one in timeline terms - which will decide the relative priority of hurrying the Alpen out versus getting the Karpaten built quickly. I would say the base "high-priority" time is 24 months for the Alpen with the Karpaten following behind at 36 months, with adjustments from there.
Adhoc vote count started by tomwritestuff on Oct 30, 2017 at 7:00 PM, finished with 58 posts and 11 votes.

Adhoc vote count started by tomwritestuff on Oct 30, 2017 at 7:31 PM, finished with 58 posts and 11 votes.

Adhoc vote count started by tomwritestuff on Oct 30, 2017 at 7:36 PM, finished with 58 posts and 11 votes.
 
Last edited:
We will have a choice shortly - a partially retroactive one in timeline terms - which will decide the relative priority of hurrying the Alpen out versus getting the Karpaten built quickly. I would say the base "high-priority" time is 24 months for the Alpen with the Karpaten following behind at 36 months, with adjustments from there.

Intersting. Presumably by focusing more on the Alpen, we delay the Karpaten as well as a potential global speed decrease for all the other projects like new destroyers, cruisers, reconfigured aircraft carriers, and other projects like the Packing Peanuts of Doom?
 
24 hour warning for campaigning, wrangling, debating, finalizing, etc your votes.
Adhoc vote count started by tomwritestuff on Oct 30, 2017 at 9:09 PM, finished with 60 posts and 11 votes.
 
Much as we want the Alpen in the water and working up, I don't want that at the cost of delaying the entire rest of the building program.
 
So I did some work on the Alpen drawing as it looks in the information section. Did some scaling to shipbucket standards including taking line drawings of Ersatz Monarch turrets, scaling them properly and putting the turrets to the hull. When we finalize the last details, then I'll do a complete shipbucket of Alpen including sideview. One thing though, from the info we have now, that is one deep riding ship at 41 feet of draft, that's ten more than the Colorados.

Anywho, here's Alpen with properly scaled turrets to her size.



I like it, I'm getting a bit of a Scharnhorst vibe from it.

 
So I am continuing to refine our visual representation of Alpen, I am coming up with some questions. Will Alpen have two or more small stacks or one large stack? I've temporarily placed the secondary 12cm turrets, but with twelve turrets there are issues of adequate space, ie, leaving enough room for the main battery to have good gun angles, space for superstructure, smoke stacks and ships boats (I don't think raft tech is advanced enough to not have ships boats.

 
The biggest thing I think we have here that directly influences us is the potential to get the contract for the Dutch cruisers at Fiume, Pola, or Trieste. It would give us much needed cruiser building experience, as well as a chance for the shipyards to test techniques on a ship that we aren't paying for.


I think we've struck gold against Italy. Considering the IRL refits of Italian battleships, the extended refits of the Andrea Dorias here will eat up a lot of the available funding for cruisers, unless Mussolini does a surprise coup with his blackshirts and sends military spending into the stratosphere.

I'm holding out hope that the French aircraft carriers are going to suck. If there is a dreadnought ship more terrible to convert into a carrier than the Tegetthoffs it would have to be the Courbet class. The single example of French interwar carriers, French aircraft carrier Béarn - Wikipedia , doesn't exactly strike me as impressive either.

@tomwritestuff About how many more long turns will there be until at least the Alpen is complete? I would think that if the Russians have a launched, if not necessarily completed Pyotr Velikiy in the field, then we shouldn't be more than a year and a half behind.

These were the only two Russian predreadnoughts i could find that seem like they could be easily downgunned into cruisers. Otherwise, there were also some 12k-13k ton predreadnoughts that you could also convert if you were willing to replace the armor belt with a thinner one or something of that nature.

10k~ ton:

Russian battleship Rostislav - Wikipedia

Russian battleship Poltava (1894) - Wikipedia

12-13k~ ton:

Russian battleship Potemkin - Wikipedia

Russian battleship Tsesarevich - Wikipedia

Russian battleship Evstafi - Wikipedia

Russian battleship Ioann Zlatoust - Wikipedia
"Nyet, battleship-cruisers are not overweight! It is heavy on my heart to reveal this to you, but Russian battleship displacement was overstated for morale purposes. This was the real reason the Japanese won at Tsushima..."

I kid, I kid. I think the quoted full displacement figures include about a thousand tons of fuel (which would not be counted as "standard" displacement). Yank the main gun turrets and fudge a little more and you could probably pretend that they're close enough to be compliant with the limit.

This would be a pretty terrible idea, and given their general state of obsolescence - we're talking < 20 knot pre-dreadnoughts here - they really are not worth investing reconstruction dollars into. Especially if you have to strip off the main guns in the process.

That said, the treaty does put the Russians in a little bit of a pinch, which is why they are expected to come out with some sort of Black Sea cruiser. The unexpected transfer of the Bayern makes that bind a lot harder, which is why the Russians have pushed the construction schedule of the Ivan as hard as possible.

The OTL balance of naval power between the Ottomans and Russians in WWI favored the Russians heavily. (3 dreadnoughts + 5 pre-dreadnoughts vs 1 battlecruiser, 2 pre-dreadnoughts, and 1 coastal defense ship). Even with the two dreadnoughts the Ottomans were planning on purchasing, it was clearly an area of Russian dominance.

The pre-treaty balance here in this timeline was 4 dreadnoughts (plus Russia's extra predreadnoughts) vs 3 dreadnoughts and 4 battlecruisers, the balance having been jarred sharply by the battlecruiser transfer of the Cyprus Crisis. Add the unexpected transfer of the Bayern and things look pretty stark from their perspective. The Russians were relying on their numeric edge in pre-dreadnought warships to provide parity, and in terms of a strait-based conflict, the slow speed of that pre-dreadnought fleet was not thought to be as important.

Now those are being pushed out of active service, and the Ottoman fleet just added a big scary new battleship. Even after the Ivan goes into service, the Russians have reason to be wary.

16" battleships (1): Pyotr Veliky class
12'' dreadnoughts (4): Imperator Nikolai I, Imperatritsa Mariya class (3)

15" battleships (1): Sultan Muhteşem Süleyman I
13.5'' battleships (2): Reşadiye class
12'' battleships (1): Sultan Osman I
11'' battlecruisers (4): Moltke class (2), Sultan Abdülaziz, Sultan Abdulmecid I
 
[X] Marie said she was waiting for an "appropriate time" to leave your apartment this morning after spending the night so that nobody would notice. And then called in "sick."
-[X] (spending the night on your couch)
[X] "So the two of you are going to have a duel," you say.
-[X] "If the two of you must get this out of your system… it will be swords to first blood, no more. Do you understand me?"
[X] … the lanky figure moved with the gracelessness of one who has only recently attained his full length of limb.
[X] "I'm sorry, but I didn't want to disappoint you when I rushed through. I wasn't expecting to spend very long here."
[X] Call someone in the intelligence service to let them know what Berndwas doing when he got killed.
[X] 152mm top / 305mm sides / 432mm face / 432mm barbettes
[X] 100mm
[X] EMULATE Hawkins class cruiser
[X] EMULATE Koester class cruiser
[X] AVOID Omaha class cruiser
[X] AVOID Svetlana-class cruiser
[X] EMULATE whatever the Italians and French are up to next.
[X] get the reverse-engineered 75mm into widespread production quickly in anticipation of widespread demand.
Adhoc vote count started by Imperator on Oct 31, 2017 at 12:03 AM, finished with 65 posts and 12 votes.

Adhoc vote count started by Imperator on Oct 31, 2017 at 6:23 AM, finished with 68 posts and 12 votes.
 
So I am continuing to refine our visual representation of Alpen, I am coming up with some questions. Will Alpen have two or more small stacks or one large stack? I've temporarily placed the secondary 12cm turrets, but with twelve turrets there are issues of adequate space, ie, leaving enough room for the main battery to have good gun angles, space for superstructure, smoke stacks and ships boats (I don't think raft tech is advanced enough to not have ships boats.


I haven't thought of the stacks question. Our reference ships Tegetthoff, the planned Ersatz Monarch, and the planned Lexington battlecruiser were all two stack designs... although the Alpen's machinery is half of the Lexington's machinery transplanted hastily into a new hull (to the point where someone forgot to fix the shaft length)... which would mean one stack would make perfect sense in spite of giving it a very different profile from the ships its design is most heavily based on.

Note on 12cm turrets: Where I put them on my front-page sketch (two pairs on the forward sides) probably looks odd at first glance given that you don't want to park them in the way of the main guns, but might make more sense if you look at the side view of the Ersatz Monarch here. Both forward turrets (not just the superfiring B turret) are above the lower level of casemates, and that sort of lower deck area got a lot bigger from the Tegetthoff to the Ersatz Monarch.

Not sure if that area can realistically fit two pairs in the way I C&Ped them in, and I doubt it's a great place to put them, but ... twelve is a really large number of 12cm turrets to stick on a treaty battleship.
Adhoc vote count started by tomwritestuff on Oct 31, 2017 at 6:43 PM, finished with 68 posts and 12 votes.

Adhoc vote count started by tomwritestuff on Oct 31, 2017 at 7:09 PM, finished with 68 posts and 12 votes.

Adhoc vote count started by tomwritestuff on Oct 31, 2017 at 7:50 PM, finished with 68 posts and 12 votes.

Adhoc vote count started by tomwritestuff on Oct 31, 2017 at 8:39 PM, finished with 68 posts and 12 votes.
 
Okay, that's helpful. One stack frees up some midships space.

Since we've reached 1922-23 time wise, most navies of the world have realized that you need more superstructure than a conning tower and a spotting top on the mainmast. What aesthetic are we going for? This also bears some relevance as to where the rangefinders and fire control directors go as well. Should emulate the British and United States who opted for the office building look with either tripod or lattice masts? Or perhaps the German industrial/Bauhaus (ie Scharnhorst) look? Follow the artistic fads like the Italians and go Art Deco/Futurist curvy tower mast? Or dare we go the Full Pagoda™ and make the Fusos weep with envy? :p
 
Okay, that's helpful. One stack frees up some midships space.

Since we've reached 1922-23 time wise, most navies of the world have realized that you need more superstructure than a conning tower and a spotting top on the mainmast. What aesthetic are we going for? This also bears some relevance as to where the rangefinders and fire control directors go as well. Should emulate the British and United States who opted for the office building look with either tripod or lattice masts? Or perhaps the German industrial/Bauhaus (ie Scharnhorst) look? Follow the artistic fads like the Italians and go Art Deco/Futurist curvy tower mast? Or dare we go the Full Pagoda™ and make the Fusos weep with envy? :p
I've always found the floating brick look that the British used to be very fitting for a battleship.
Though they were never very good at making efficient use of space for superstructure.
(Example, the gigantic Hood and the enormous amount of wasted space in superstructure.)
 
Last edited:
Back
Top