In this particular case, the belt length would be pretty much the same - recall that the proposed Bretagne reconstruction is exactly the spacing you get after reconstructing a ship to replace your AB and XY turrets with two widely separated quadruple turrets, leaving a big hole where the Q was in the middle for an aircraft catapult. Ordinarily, a two-turret design could have a more compact citadel, but in this case, we have two comparatively widely spaced quad turrets. Superimpose the Bretagne and Lyon and you'll see what I mean.
You would not have the ability to easily convert one type into the other without very significant reconstruction, but you could potentially manage to share a lot of common components between those two. Up to maybe 90% of everything belowdecks.
Counterpoint; we're not building copies of the Bretagne refit or the Super Chapyev; we're advising someone building something loosely based on these ships, and this is Austrio-Hungary. We're not exactly seeing money shoveled into the Navy at a breakneck pace- we need to assume everyone's working on a budget (except us, because Battleships, Fuck Yeah) and as such there's going to be a lot of effort to spare cash, as well as the weight-volume restrictions. This, in turn, means things are going to get cut, and stuff like interchangeable parts is very expensive on the front end, even if it saves money on the back end. As for retrofits between the two design plans? Allow me a laugh- with the degree of destruction needed to strip the ship down for the rebuilding would be almost as much as a new ship!
The nice thing is, even if the treaty gets thrown out the window the ships armed with 15cm guns aren't in need of being upgunned, instead we can look in a evolutionary direction to see if we can't develop a DP 15cm gun.
That's... Well, that's possible, but that's dependant on both us being rich as Croseus to develop a continuous solution FCC, power mounts and system that can traverse fast enough to be useful.
With all this talk on quad turrets it occurred to me the biggest draw back to it is that necessitates wider ships, which will have an imapact on the speed of any ship we make. Requiring more powerful engines which can potentially negate wieght savings of a quad turret.
You yourself have learned a few things from the yard workers in Fiume. One with a cousin in Bari told you that the triple-gun turrets the Italians have used to replace the oversized 10" guns on their armored cruisers use the exact same barbette size as the double 10" gun turrets, and the outer two guns are spaced in the same way. You had thought that this meant that they simply had bored a hole out of the old turret and crowded a new gun in, but they did actually manufacture new turrets with which to replace the old turrets – new turrets with the same barbette size, oversized ammunition hoists, and oddly identical gun spacing.
It is not clear what the French and Italian plans are for new cruiser construction; given the reduction in their battleship fleets and their lack of plans for construction of new battleships, it appears likely that such plans will materialize soon unless the two nations embrace disarmament. Neither the Greeks nor the Turks have the capability of producing major surface warships on their own, and are unlikely to innovate in this regard.
It almost looks like the Italians are saving their funds and developing what looks to be a treaty-compliant turret that satisfies the gunnery restrictions while giving them the opportunity to refit the banned larger guns later on.
As for a cruiser, from a resource standpoint it doesn't make much sense to design and build a dedicated coastal defense, light, and armored cruisers. I kind of like the idea of developing a CA with turboelectric drive and whatever armament we choose and then make the CL a less armored version with an improved power to weight ratio.
As for a cruiser, from a resource standpoint it doesn't make much sense to design and build a dedicated coastal defense, light, and armored cruisers. I kind of like the idea of developing a CA with turboelectric drive and whatever armament we choose and then make the CL a less armored version with an improved power to weight ratio.
See, here's the thing- power to weight (over the full hull; sectionally the topic gets much more complicated) means diddly here, along with draft. What matters is fineness ratio, alias length to beam, and design speed. The longer the ship gets, the easier a time it has with going fast for a given SHP. The problem is, the energy it takes to reach higher speeds increases cubicly, which is why hulls have a design speed; a point where the fineness ratio is at its maximum efficiency while the engines are going full power.
If you're familiar with Le Fantastique, Tashkenet, or Maury, you'll notice that forty knot destroyers weren't impossible. However, there's a catch- they end up putting so much power out for their hull size, they run out of weapons. Even the Shimikaze, designed and built from the ground up as the fastest ship the IJN could build, lost out on armament and efficiency to the Fletcher-class, let alone the Gearing and Summer classes.
[X] "It is in the Kaiser's best interests that Austria-Hungary's navy is strong. You cannot count on the reliability of the Italians. Oh? Well, I have proof. I will courier that to you."
[X] You told him that you had a family connection of sorts higher up in the decision-making hierarchy, and that your informal connection led to you being yanked out to help smooth out an otherwise deadlocked decision, leaving the precise nature of the connection deliberately vague.
[X] You went to look at the worksite on Sunday, and while distractedly thinking of a certain woman of Vienna, you bumped into a ladder and got hit by a falling box of rivets.
[X] An almost-untouched design study catches your eye, superficially similar to the Alpen- a quad turret fore and aft, with a triple superfiring over the fore quad. The superstructure is tightly abbreviated, with the last turret oddly far aft to make room for a catapult or two quadruple torpedo launchers a side. In the notes, it is mentioned that the catpult would likely need to be retrofitted in, or if that wasn't possible more secondary battery mounts.
[X] You tell her that if she cannot behave with a high level of propriety within the office, you will be forced to let her go from the position in order to preserve your reputation. Her relationship with you, such as it is, must remain on a discreet level.
-[X] … with Elizabeth. At some point you asked her to give you her best shot, and she helpfully punched you in the head. (You were drunk, it seemed like a good idea at the time.) She apologized profusely afterwards and kissed the cut one of her rings made.
[X] You tell her that you love her as you love a sister, and you cannot bear to lose her. You will not give that up if you find another woman to love as a wife; you have no natural siblings that you are as close to, and she need not be jealous that some other woman will replace her. You will never love her as a wife, but you will never stop loving her as a sister.
[X] The imagined Bretagne reconstruction, with quadruple turrets both forward and aft and a split superstructure surrounding a central aircraft catapult.
[X] You tell her that you cannot handle combining your professional working relationship with a personal relationship of a more intimate nature. She cannot be both your secretary and your lover, and must choose which she wants to be.
[X] "If additional metallurgical expertise is made available to us, I can convince Skoda to offer your company a new and extremely capable dual purpose 12cm gun for the Prussia class ships with a favorable 'friends and allies' license agreement."
Tentative sketches of the current design study and the Koester:
Mini-Alpen:
DImensions: 150m length x 20.5m beam x 6.5m draft Speed: Est. 26 kts from 45,000 shp (turboelectric, two shafts) Main armament: Eleven 19cm/55 guns in three turrets (2 quad + 1 triple; note actual Alpen 1 quad and 2 triple). Secondary battery: Eight 12cm/50 guns in four twin turrets, eight 53cm torpedo launchers Peak armor: 140mm
Koester
DImensions: 141m length x 21.5m beam x 7m draft Speed: 28 kts from 60,000 shp (coal+oil, three shafts) Main armament: Eight 21cm/45 guns in four twin turrets Secondary battery: Sixteen 8.8cm/45 guns in single mounts, four submerged 60cm torpedo launchers Peak armor: 110mm
EDIT: Small footnote: The Mini-Alpen is beamier in relative terms than the original Alpen, as it pushes the aft quad turret a little further aft and has a quad A turret - that pushed towards a beamier platform.
There will be faster design studies also in the pool (and you will see some in the next decision point). The mini-Alpen is one that's fast enough to act as an escort to the Alpen, which looks fast by K.u.K. standards for ships that size.
As far as the Koester goes for German purposes... you can compare it to OTL German ships with when they entered service:
Some of the FK design proposals had speeds of up to 32-33 kts, but that was informed by wartime experience. With the Koester, we're looking at a true response to the Hawkins. In OTL, the Hawkins was laid down around the time that the Germans stopped laying down new cruisers. Here, the response to knowing the new British "light" cruiser is twice the size with 7.5" guns is to give it superior firepower (escalating to the size of guns previously used on armored cruisers) and increase the armor to the point of estimated resistance against 7.5" guns, with a speed matching what the Germans thought of as the standard speed for a regular cruiser at the time - roughly matching both German and British light cruisers. (I may tweak the specifications on armor layout and secondary battery a little bit more).
From the German perspective in ATL, the fact that the Hawkins turned out to be faster may have been a point of irritation, but only the newer British battlecruisers could both outrun and outfight the Koester - the Renown class ships, the Admiral class ships, and the Courageous class ships that the British decided subsequently to convert to carriers.
Heinz's grumpy little speech is the most noise that you've had today, you reflect, as you lean back in your chair. The two excitable engineers, Gregor and Gergely, are gone, stuffed in a train to Pilsen together. The timid pool secretary manning the desk in the front of your office has barely squeaked out a word all day, and Severino has been nursing a hangover while he quietly catches up on his correspondence. The office never used to have days like this; Marie's banter and wit are sorely missing.
Marie, of course, no longer provides that banter even when she is in the office. She has been icily distant towards you in particular, although not in general.
[] You regret firing Marie, but it had to be done. Perhaps soon she will forgive you.
-[] (write-in any method of trying to mend your friendship)
[] Marie said she was waiting for an "appropriate time" to leave your apartment this morning after spending the night so that nobody would notice. And then called in "sick."
-[] (spending the night on your couch)
-[] (spending the night in your bed)
[] Marie transferred to another department.
[] Marie, of course, no longer provides that banter even when she is in the office. She has been icily distant towards you in particular, although not in general.
It is in this devastatingly quiet and peaceful environment that you hear someone step out of the elevator down the hallway, a distant murmur that is probably "Good morning," a rhythmically exchanged introduction of some kind, followed by loud yelling, a crash of glass, and cursing in what you strongly suspect to be Portuguese. You hasten down the hall.
"As the challenged, I have choice of weapons! Choice of weapons!" Severino gestures dazedly. His shirt is decorated with something wet and a spray of broken glass, possibly the origin of the strong chemical scent filling the air.
You intervene. "Stop, both of you."
Severino obediently falls over. Herr Doktor Brandstatter steps forward to kick him in the ribs.
"I said stop," you say, trying to put generations of Habsburg authority into your voice. When that doesn't work, you grab the chemist by the arm, dragging him away from Severino and towards your office.
"That outrageous creature! If you knew the right of it, you would toss him out the window yourself," Herr Doktor Brandstatter tells you.
You sniff experimentally. "What was that?"
"Chloroform. It can be used to dissolve the metastyrol. I was going to demonstrate that for you, but I am afraid my temper got the best of me." The chemist liberates his arm from your hand, taking a seat across from your desk. "He should be alright afterwards. Other than being a horrible excuse for a human being, but..."
You rub your forehead. "Herr Doktor Brandstetter, have I inferred correctly that you challenged him to a duel? Or was he out of his head from the influence of your chemical assault?"
"Well, er, yes," the chemist says. "The second thing, that is. His conduct towards Fräulein Weber..."
You stop and reflect on this a moment.
"So the two of you are going to have a duel," you say. "If the two of you must get this out of your system… it will be swords to first blood, no more. Do you understand me?"
[] "So the two of you are going to have a duel," you say.
-[] "If the two of you must get this out of your system… it will be swords to first blood, no more. Do you understand me?"
-[] "Right. I think I have a pair of dueling pistols in my office, and Severino should wake up soon enough, let's go outside and get things ready, shall we?"
-[] "I suppose that's a matter between the two of you to work out. So, let's talk about this metastyrol some more."
[] "That's not going to happen," you say, voice full of dour certainty.
-[] (write-in why not)
[] (write-in)
Tuesday, November 27th, 1923
You board the train to Fiume half-awake, having booked an early morning ticket.
After being served coffee and breakfast in the dining car, you start to feel human again, and begin to leaf your way through the newspaper. News about the goings-on in Italian parliament on the fifth page are a bit more interesting to you than the front-page piece discussing the anniversary of Franz Josef's death and what Franz Ferdinand has accomplished as emperor since then, or the depressing but largely speculative piece about what might be going on in Armenia. Severino's favorite Italian parliamentarian has been very busy, and his supporters have been taking to the streets. Recent accomplishments include a motion of no confidence in the prime minister (which failed, followed by rioting in the streets) and a conciliatory motion to create an honorific decoration for mothering multiple children. You recall that the Dutch recently instituted a similar program.
As you chuckle over a letter to the editor speculating that the Hungarian parliament might not vote down Uncle Franz' annual request for a separate Croatian crown (if they ever approved, that would be worthwhile front-page news) you notice out of the corner of your eye that someone is watching you. As you put down your newspaper to get a better look, the figure hastily ducks out of the dining car. You can only speculate, but you did notice the lanky figure moved with the gracelessness of one who has only recently attained his full length of limb.
[] … the figure had a tell-tale blonde curl of hair leaking out from under a concealing hat.
[] … the figure was short and generously feminine in proportion, with dark hair.
[] … the figure's clothing suggested she was a Slovenian woman.
[] … the figure had a suspicious bulge in his jacket pocket.
[] … the figure's movements seemed arthritic and none too steady.
[] … the lanky figure moved with the gracelessness of one who has only recently attained his full length of limb.
Thursday, November 29th, 1923
Your unplanned adventure having been managed, you begin your search for Nicolau at the dock where he reportedly disembarked on Monday, owing money to the travel agency. Consulting with the travel agency, you settle the debt and pay a series of small bribes before discovering that they had attempted to seize his luggage as security against payment, and Nicolau fled with his guitar, leaving behind his suitcase with his clothing and toothbrush.
Armed with a suitcase and a rough description, you start your search by going down the street he was last seen fleeing down.
Friday, November 30th, 1923
"He cannot have gone far," you tell Miss Hadik, sipping at a cup of coffee. "But I simply don't know where he might have ended up. I could spend all day today walking around the street asking everyone if they've seen a young Catalan man with a guitar. My feet are sore and my head is swimming."
"It is nice of you to come calling, though I wish you had told me you were going to be in town. For that matter, you could have told me about this young man, and I could have taken care of this matter on Monday." Elizabeth looks a little piqued.
"I'm sorry, but I didn't want to disappoint you when I rushed through. I wasn't expecting to spend very long here."
[] "I'm sorry, but I didn't want to disappoint you when I rushed through. I wasn't expecting to spend very long here."
[] "I didn't expect you to be in Fiume this week, honestly. I thought you just visited here occasionally yourself rather than living here."
[] "How pleasant to know you look forward to my company. Would you like to come back up to Vienna with me? We could attend an opera."
[] "I simply wasn't thinking."
[] (write-in)
The dark-haired woman smiles and raises her eyebrow. "Well, let us go find your young electrician," she tells you, taking your arm in hers.
You hastily toss some money on the table, then realize you have overpaid, and take back some of it. Outside of the cafe, a scruffy young man is playing music, his case open in front of him. His eyes follow the money in your hand, and you feel a vague sense of guilt.
"Oh, look," Miss Hadik tells you. "I think I have found your electrician."
Monday, December 3rd, 1923
As you fold the newspaper in anticipation of throwing it out, the notice of a mysterious death catches your eye, announcing the death of one Herr Bernd Kirsch, whose mangled and bullet-riddled body was found on train tracks in rural southern Germany. He was found with a ticket from Vienna to Meppen in his pocket and no identifying papers, leading to a delay in the identification of the body. An empty briefcase and a torn leather jacket containing two 9mm Glisenti cartridges were found within 100 meters of the site. German authorities are uncertain as to what Herr Kirsch's business was in Meppen; Herr Kirsch has been identified as a psychology student.
Your hand shakes a little as you put down the paper. You didn't know Bernd had been taking psychology classes, simply that he had once again enrolled at the university for something or another; you have been using him for discreet errands for years, however, and Bernd had always been happy enough to take your money, whether at the card table or looking for a discreet service of sorts. The two of you had become close friends after you had seconded him in the duel that got him expelled from school. While he had legal and financial troubles, he was a solid fellow in a pinch, and one that you felt you could put your trust in completely. He had never failed you before – and now he was dead.
Fortunately for you, Krupp had sent some more experts, experts already expected to arrive soon. Construction has not even begun on the outer turret housings of the Alpen, but you are satisfied that the idea that Krupp's experts will help you insure that the 432mm of steel protecting the vital main guns of your battleship will be of the best quality of any armor steel anywhere. (That's the thickness of the turret faces and barbettes. The sides will be protected by 305mm, with 152mm on the tops of the turrets.) Even the secondary turrets will be protected with 100mm of armor on the faces (dropping to 80mm on the sides and tops of the turrets), making it more difficult for them to be disabled in combat.
You decide that, urgent meeting or not, you do have time to make one quick phone call. You call someone in the intelligence service to let them know what Bernd was doing when he got killed.
[] Call Krupp to let them know what happened to your promised evidence of Italian treachery.
[] Call someone in the intelligence service to let them know what Bernd was doing when he got killed.
[] Call Kirsch's long-estranged family, let them know the real story of his death, and try to make amends with them on Bernd's behalf.
[] Call a woman to ask her to accompany you to dinner tonight. If your days are numbered, you know how you want to spend with your few remaining ones.
-[] (write in which one)
[] (write-in other phone call)
You put down the phone with a blend of relief and satisfaction. The call went better than you had hoped, but you still feel deeply upset over Bernd's death at the hands of what you can only assume were Italian agents, who had been somehow tipped off as to his mission. However, life must go on, and you have a meeting to attend on the vitally important matter of typewriters and carbon paper. With one last glance at the phone, you pass the empty desk that should have a secretary sitting at it and head for the elevator.
After entering the elevator, you give a cursory nod to the middle-aged man carrying a battered folder, and then orient yourself to stare at the doorway, waiting patiently for the brief time it takes you to go up two floors. A lurch, a grinding noise, and half an hour later, you find yourself sitting on the floor with the middle-aged man amidst a spread array of papers, trading your opinions on the vital matter of which other warships of the world's first and second rate navies are foolish boondoggles and which ones the Austro-Hungarians should consider emulating, as the older gentleman is a senior member of a division of the bureaucracy dedicated to exploring such things.
The two of you exchange opinions on whether or not the Blücher, forced into retirement by treaty, would have been worth keeping in service otherwise; it was obviously superior to the other German armored cruisers that have been kept in service, but the armored cruiser may very well be entirely obsolete. Are battlecruisers or battleships the better idea? Will the next round of battleships built be in truth battlecruisers? Perhaps some of the current ones may be thought of as such, the new "battleships" of today are as fast as the earlier battlecruisers. What of the Pyotr? Is it a paper tiger or an awesome menace? Perhaps the Russians are secretly in violation of the treaty limits.
Three hours later, the two of you are able to exit the elevator, which you do with some regret after helping tidy up the stunning array of papers contained in that battered folder. Each of you has made a friend today, and each of you has learned some vital lesson. For your part, you feel you have gone to some length in convincing him that as the Austro-Hungarian navy moves forward with the cruiser program, it can take the following lessons home from the other navies of the world when building its next ships.
It should seek to emulate the Koester class cruiser, and to a lesser degree the rival Hawkins class cruiser. You will need to closely pay attention to what the Italians and French are up to. However, it should look nothing like the Svetlana or Omaha cruisers - it should be designed to be a heavy hitter rather than a bristling porcupine of lighter guns in single mounts, and avoid casemates completely.
(Special instructions: You can vote either AVOID or EMULATE on as many as you like of the following. Tally will be based on "net approval" EMULATE-AVOID scores.)
He does have a very good point, however, in that while the 12cm/50 gun is an excellent weapon on a highly sophisticated mount with a high swivel speed unprecedented in a weapon its size, it still cannot fire quickly enough or in enough different directions at once to handle all possible threat environments in the modern battlefield. There is still a definite role for smaller weapons, and it is starting to get close to time to think about how, when, and where to put smaller weapons onto the Alpen and Karpaten, a decision likely to have ramifications for other future ships.
The older battleships that will be kept in service – the Franz Josef, Monarch, Wien, and Budapest – mainly use a battery of sixteen 90mm guns for defense against torpedo boats, and are overdue for an anti-aircraft upgrade. The Prinz Eugen and Szent István use 70mm guns for this purpose, but will be scrapped when the Karpaten enters service. Škoda thinks they have adequately copied the new 75mm anti-aircraft gun from the French; should it be used? You and your new friend came to an agreement to push hard in your separate departments for the proposal to get the reverse-engineered 75mm into widespread production quickly in anticipation of widespread demand.
[] use the two remaining Tegetthoffs as platforms for experimenting with new light anti-aircraft guns.
[] hasten the refit schedule of the four older battleships to get updated anti-aircraft guns on them.
[] get the reverse-engineered 75mm into widespread production quickly in anticipation of widespread demand.
[] look mostly at lighter weapons with a higher rate of fire – perhaps the British pom-pom gun or something similar.
[] (write-in)]
Adhoc vote count started by tomwritestuff on Oct 22, 2017 at 1:09 AM, finished with 81 posts and 15 votes.
[X] You went to look at the worksite on Sunday, and while distractedly thinking of a certain woman of Vienna, you bumped into a ladder and got hit by a falling box of rivets.
-[X] certain infuriating woman
[X] You tell her that if she cannot behave with a high level of propriety within the office, you will be forced to let her go from the position in order to preserve your reputation. Her relationship with you, such as it is, must remain on a discreet level.
[X] It would be appalling for you to follow in his footsteps, given the cautionary lessons you learned growing up as a bastard yourself.
[X] You will decline this invitation.
[X] You told him that you had a family connection of sorts higher up in the decision-making hierarchy, and that your informal connection led to you being yanked out to help smooth out an otherwise deadlocked decision, leaving the precise nature of the connection deliberately vague.
[X] An almost-untouched design study catches your eye, superficially similar to the Alpen- a quad turret fore and aft, with a triple superfiring over the fore quad. The superstructure is tightly abbreviated, with the last turret oddly far aft to make room for a catapult or two quadruple torpedo launchers a side. In the notes, it is mentioned that the catapult would likely need to be retrofitted in, or if that wasn't possible more secondary battery mounts.
[X] "It is in the Kaiser's best interests that Austria-Hungary's navy is strong. You cannot count on the reliability of the Italians. Oh? Well, I have proof. I will courier that to you."
[X] Bányász Gergely, the two young engineers can bounce off each other the whole way to Pilsen and back.
[X] Travel to Fiume to retrieve Nicolau. You can pick his brain.
[X] Eight torpedo tubes, in two quad launchers on the aft deck fore of the Y turret.
[X] You will regretfully decline the invitation; knowing your luck you're going to be in Fiume on business.
[X] Eight torpedo tubes, in two quad launchers on the aft deck fore of the Y turret.
[X] You told him that you had a family connection of sorts higher up in the decision-making hierarchy, and that your informal connection led to you being yanked out to help smooth out an otherwise deadlocked decision, leaving the precise nature of the connection deliberately vague.
[X] An almost-untouched design study catches your eye, superficially similar to the Alpen- a quad turret fore and aft, with a triple superfiring over the fore quad. The superstructure is tightly abbreviated, with the last turret oddly far aft to make room for a catapult or two quadruple torpedo launchers a side. In the notes, it is mentioned that the catpult would likely need to be retrofitted in, or if that wasn't possible more secondary battery mounts.
[X] "It is in the Kaiser's best interests that Austria-Hungary's navy is strong. You cannot count on the reliability of the Italians. Oh? Well, I have proof. I will courier that to you."
[X] Bányász Gergely, the two young engineers can bounce off each other the whole way to Pilsen and back.
[X] Travel to Fiume to retrieve Nicolau. You can pick his brain.
-[X] And also visit Miss Hadik along the way.
[X] You were out quite late drinking …
-[X] … with Elizabeth. At some point you asked her to give you her best shot, and she helpfully punched you in the head. (You were drunk, it seemed like a good idea at the time.) She apologized profusely afterwards and kissed the cut one of her rings made.
[X] You tell her that you love her as you love a sister, and you cannot bear to lose her. You will not give that up if you find another woman to love as a wife; you have no natural siblings that you are as close to, and she need not be jealous that some other woman will replace her. You will never love her as a wife, but you will never stop loving her as a sister.
[X] It would be appalling for you to follow in his footsteps, given the cautionary lessons you learned growing up as a bastard yourself.
[X] You will regretfully decline the invitation; knowing your luck you're going to be in Fiume on business.
[X] Eight torpedo tubes, in two quad launchers on the aft deck fore of the Y turret.
[X] You told him that you had a family connection of sorts higher up in the decision-making hierarchy, and that your informal connection led to you being yanked out to help smooth out an otherwise deadlocked decision, leaving the precise nature of the connection deliberately vague.
[X] An almost-untouched design study catches your eye, superficially similar to the Alpen- a quad turret fore and aft, with a triple superfiring over the fore quad. The superstructure is tightly abbreviated, with the last turret oddly far aft to make room for a catapult or two quadruple torpedo launchers a side. In the notes, it is mentioned that the catpult would likely need to be retrofitted in, or if that wasn't possible more secondary battery mounts.
[X] "It is in the Kaiser's best interests that Austria-Hungary's navy is strong. You cannot count on the reliability of the Italians. Oh? Well, I have proof. I will courier that to you."
[X] Bányász Gergely, the two young engineers can bounce off each other the whole way to Pilsen and back.
[X] Travel to Fiume to retrieve Nicolau. You can pick his brain.
-[X] And also visit Miss Hadik along the way.
[X] You went to look at the worksite on Sunday, and while distractedly thinking of a certain woman of Vienna, you bumped into a ladder and got hit by a falling box of rivets.
-[X] certain snuggly woman
[X] 10
[X] 2 (tubes are stacked, 3 on bottom, 2 on top)
[X] aft deck, foreward the main battery Y turret aft
[X] You told him that you had a family connection of sorts higher up in the decision-making hierarchy, and that your informal connection led to you being yanked out to help smooth out an otherwise deadlocked decision, leaving the precise nature of the connection deliberately vague.
[X] You tell her that you love her as you love a sister, and you cannot bear to lose her. You will not give that up if you find another woman to love as a wife; you have no natural siblings that you are as close to, and she need not be jealous that some other woman will replace her. You will never love her as a wife, but you will never stop loving her as a sister.
[X] It would be appalling for you to follow in his footsteps, given the cautionary lessons you learned growing up as a bastard yourself.
[X] Lyon, with a quartet of quadruple turrets.
[X] You will accept this invitation
[X] "If additional metallurgical expertise is made available to us, I can convince Skoda to offer your company a new and extremely capable dual purpose 12cm gun for the Prussia class ships with a favorable 'friends and allies' license agreement."
[X] Bányász Gergely, the two young engineers can bounce off each other the whole way to Pilsen and back.
[X] Travel to Fiume to retrieve Nicolau. You can pick his brain.
[X] You were out quite late drinking …
-[X] … with Elizabeth. At some point you asked her to give you her best shot, and she helpfully punched you in the head. (You were drunk, it seemed like a good idea at the time.) She apologized profusely afterwards and kissed the cut one of her rings made.
[X] You tell her that you love her as you love a sister, and you cannot bear to lose her. You will not give that up if you find another woman to love as a wife; you have no natural siblings that you are as close to, and she need not be jealous that some other woman will replace her. You will never love her as a wife, but you will never stop loving her as a sister.
[X] It would be appalling for you to follow in his footsteps, given the cautionary lessons you learned growing up as a bastard yourself.
[X] You will regretfully decline the invitation; knowing your luck you're going to be in Fiume on business.
[X] Eight torpedo tubes, in two quad launchers on the aft deck fore of the Y turret.
[X] You told him that you had a family connection of sorts higher up in the decision-making hierarchy, and that your informal connection led to you being yanked out to help smooth out an otherwise deadlocked decision, leaving the precise nature of the connection deliberately vague.
[X] "It is in the Kaiser's best interests that Austria-Hungary's navy is strong. You cannot count on the reliability of the Italians. Oh? Well, I have proof. I will courier that to you."
[X] Lyon, with a quartet of quadruple turrets.
[X] Bányász Gergely, the two young engineers can bounce off each other the whole way to Pilsen and back.
[X] Travel to Fiume to retrieve Nicolau. You can pick his brain.
-[X] And also visit Miss Hadik along the way.
[X] You were out quite late drinking …
-[X] … with Elizabeth. At some point you asked her to give you her best shot, and she helpfully punched you in the head. (You were drunk, it seemed like a good idea at the time.) She apologized profusely afterwards and kissed the cut one of her rings made.
[X] You tell her that you cannot handle combining your professional working relationship with a personal relationship of a more intimate nature. She cannot be both your secretary and your lover, and must choose which she wants to be.
-[X] She has already lost the chance to be a lover, so she can either settle for being your colleague and friend or walk out of your life entirely.
[X] It would be appalling for you to follow in his footsteps, given the cautionary lessons you learned growing up as a bastard yourself.
[X] You will regretfully decline the invitation; knowing your luck you're going to be in Fiume on business.
[X] Eight torpedo tubes, in two quad launchers on the aft deck fore of the Y turret.
[X] You told him that you had a family connection of sorts higher up in the decision-making hierarchy, and that your informal connection led to you being yanked out to help smooth out an otherwise deadlocked decision, leaving the precise nature of the connection deliberately vague.
[X] "It is in the Kaiser's best interests that Austria-Hungary's navy is strong. You cannot count on the reliability of the Italians. Oh? Well, I have proof. I will courier that to you."
[X] Lyon, with a quartet of quadruple turrets.
[X] Bányász Gergely, the two young engineers can bounce off each other the whole way to Pilsen and back.
[X] Travel to Fiume to retrieve Nicolau. You can pick his brain.
-[X] And also visit Miss Hadik along the way.
[X] You were out quite late drinking …
-[X] … with Elizabeth. At some point you asked her to give you her best shot, and she helpfully punched you in the head. (You were drunk, it seemed like a good idea at the time.) She apologized profusely afterwards and kissed the cut one of her rings made.
[X] You tell her that you love her as you love a sister, and you cannot bear to lose her. You will not give that up if you find another woman to love as a wife; you have no natural siblings that you are as close to, and she need not be jealous that some other woman will replace her. You will never love her as a wife, but you will never stop loving her as a sister.
[X] It would be appalling for you to follow in his footsteps, given the cautionary lessons you learned growing up as a bastard yourself.
[X] You will regretfully decline the invitation; knowing your luck you're going to be in Fiume on business.
[X] Eight torpedo tubes, in two quad launchers on the aft deck fore of the Y turret.
[X] You told him that you had a family connection of sorts higher up in the decision-making hierarchy, and that your informal connection led to you being yanked out to help smooth out an otherwise deadlocked decision, leaving the precise nature of the connection deliberately vague.
[X] "It is in the Kaiser's best interests that Austria-Hungary's navy is strong. You cannot count on the reliability of the Italians. Oh? Well, I have proof. I will courier that to you."
[X] The imagined Bretagne reconstruction, with quadruple turrets both forward and aft and a split superstructure surrounding a central aircraft catapult.
[X] Bányász Gergely, the two young engineers can bounce off each other the whole way to Pilsen and back.
[X] Travel to Fiume to retrieve Nicolau. You can pick his brain.
-[X] And also visit Miss Hadik along the way.
[X] You went to look at the worksite on Sunday, and while distractedly thinking of a certain woman of Vienna, you bumped into a ladder and got hit by a falling box of rivets.
-[X] certain infuriating woman
[X] You tell her that if she cannot behave with a high level of propriety within the office, you will be forced to let her go from the position in order to preserve your reputation. Her relationship with you, such as it is, must remain on a discreet level.
[X] It would be appalling for you to follow in his footsteps, given the cautionary lessons you learned growing up as a bastard yourself.
[X] You will decline this invitation.
[X] Nelson, with a trio of forward triple turrets.
[X] "It is in the Kaiser's best interests that Austria-Hungary's navy is strong. You cannot count on the reliability of the Italians. Oh? Well, I have proof. I will courier that to you."
[X] Bányász Gergely, the two young engineers can bounce off each other the whole way to Pilsen and back.
[X] Send Severino to go pick him up.
[X] You were out quite late drinking …
-[X] … with a Slovenian foreman that Elizabeth introduced you to, and have a terrible hangover.
[X] You tell her that you cannot handle combining your professional working relationship with a personal relationship of a more intimate nature. She cannot be both your secretary and your lover, and must choose which she wants to be.
-[X] She has already lost the chance to be a lover, so she can either settle for being your colleague and friend or walk out of your life entirely.
[X] It would be appalling for you to follow in his footsteps, given the cautionary lessons you learned growing up as a bastard yourself.
[X] You will regretfully decline the invitation; knowing your luck you're going to be in Fiume on business.
[X] Eight torpedo tubes, in two quad launchers on the aft deck fore of the Y turret.
[X] You told him that you had a family connection of sorts higher up in the decision-making hierarchy, and that your informal connection led to you being yanked out to help smooth out an otherwise deadlocked decision, leaving the precise nature of the connection deliberately vague.
[X] The imagined Bretagne reconstruction, with quadruple turrets both forward and aft and a split superstructure surrounding a central aircraft catapult.
[X] "It is in the Kaiser's best interests that Austria-Hungary's navy is strong. You cannot count on the reliability of the Italians. Oh? Well, I have proof. I will courier that to you."
[X] Bányász Gergely, the two young engineers can bounce off each other the whole way to Pilsen and back.
[X] Travel to Fiume to retrieve Nicolau. You can pick his brain.
-[X] And also visit Miss Hadik along the way.
[X] You went to look at the worksite on Sunday, and while distractedly thinking of a certain woman of Vienna, you bumped into a ladder and got hit by a falling box of rivets.
-[X] certain infuriating woman
[X] You tell her that if she cannot behave with a high level of propriety within the office, you will be forced to let her go from the position in order to preserve your reputation. Her relationship with you, such as it is, must remain on a discreet level.
[X] It would be appalling for you to follow in his footsteps, given the cautionary lessons you learned growing up as a bastard yourself.
[X] You will decline this invitation.
[X] Nelson, with a trio of forward triple turrets.
[X] "It is in the Kaiser's best interests that Austria-Hungary's navy is strong. You cannot count on the reliability of the Italians. Oh? Well, I have proof. I will courier that to you."
[X] Bányász Gergely, the two young engineers can bounce off each other the whole way to Pilsen and back.
[X] An almost-untouched design study catches your eye, superficially similar to the Alpen- a quad turret fore and aft, with a triple superfiring over the fore quad. The superstructure is tightly abbreviated, with the last turret oddly far aft to make room for a catapult or two quadruple torpedo launchers a side. In the notes, it is mentioned that the catapult would likely need to be retrofitted in, or if that wasn't possible more secondary battery mounts.
[X] Travel to Fiume to retrieve Nicolau. You can pick his brain.
[X] Eight torpedo tubes, in two quad launchers on the aft deck fore of the Y turret.
[X] You went to look at the worksite on Sunday, and while distractedly thinking of a certain woman of Vienna, you bumped into a ladder and got hit by a falling box of rivets.
-[X] certain infuriating woman
[X] You tell her that if she cannot behave with a high level of propriety within the office, you will be forced to let her go from the position in order to preserve your reputation. Her relationship with you, such as it is, must remain on a discreet level.
[X] It would only be natural for you to spread your attentions and affections as your father did.
[X] You will decline this invitation.
[X] Eight torpedo tubes, in two quad launchers on the aft deck fore of the Y turret.
[X] "It is in the Kaiser's best interests that Austria-Hungary's navy is strong. You cannot count on the reliability of the Italians. Oh? Well, I have proof. I will courier that to you."
[X] Bányász Gergely, the two young engineers can bounce off each other the whole way to Pilsen and back.
[X] An almost-untouched design study catches your eye, superficially similar to the Alpen- a quad turret fore and aft, with a triple superfiring over the fore quad. The superstructure is tightly abbreviated, with the last turret oddly far aft to make room for a catapult or two quadruple torpedo launchers a side. In the notes, it is mentioned that the catapult would likely need to be retrofitted in, or if that wasn't possible more secondary battery mounts.
[X] Travel to Fiume to retrieve Nicolau. You can pick his brain.
[X] You went to look at the worksite on Sunday, and while distractedly thinking of a certain woman of Vienna, you bumped into a ladder and got hit by a falling box of rivets.
-[X] certain infuriating woman
[X] You tell her that if she cannot behave with a high level of propriety within the office, you will be forced to let her go from the position in order to preserve your reputation. Her relationship with you, such as it is, must remain on a discreet level.
[X] It would be appalling for you to follow in his footsteps, given the cautionary lessons you learned growing up as a bastard yourself.
[X] You will decline this invitation.
[X] You told him that you had a family connection of sorts higher up in the decision-making hierarchy, and that your informal connection led to you being yanked out to help smooth out an otherwise deadlocked decision, leaving the precise nature of the connection deliberately vague.
[X] An almost-untouched design study catches your eye, superficially similar to the Alpen- a quad turret fore and aft, with a triple superfiring over the fore quad. The superstructure is tightly abbreviated, with the last turret oddly far aft to make room for a catapult or two quadruple torpedo launchers a side. In the notes, it is mentioned that the catapult would likely need to be retrofitted in, or if that wasn't possible more secondary battery mounts.
[X] "It is in the Kaiser's best interests that Austria-Hungary's navy is strong. You cannot count on the reliability of the Italians. Oh? Well, I have proof. I will courier that to you."
[X] Bányász Gergely, the two young engineers can bounce off each other the whole way to Pilsen and back.
[X] Travel to Fiume to retrieve Nicolau. You can pick his brain.
[X] Marie said she was waiting for an "appropriate time" to leave your apartment this morning after spending the night so that nobody would notice. And then called in "sick."
--[X] Moving quickly, you swapped the live rounds in the guns for some soap rounds you kept on hand "just in case". It wouldn't do for your foreign affairs expert and scientist to kill each other.
-[X] "Right. I think I have a pair of dueling pistols in my office, and Severino should wake up soon enough, let's go outside and get things ready, shall we?"
[X] inquire into that Swiss company that has been kicking up quite the storm lately, Oerlikon. They have recently acquired the assets of the German SEMAG company, and have been on the vanguard of light cannon development.
-[X] I have not the time to deal with these shenanigans. I will "convince" the man when he comes to that this is a place of work, not a place to saunter about like a brothel in Lisbon. In exchange, I expect that you will rescind this poorly thought out challenge.
[X] Marie, of course, no longer provides that banter even when she is in the office. She has been icily distant towards you in particular, although not in general.
[X] Marie said she was waiting for an "appropriate time" to leave your apartment this morning after spending the night so that nobody would notice. And then called in "sick."
-[X] (spending the night on your couch)
[X] "So the two of you are going to have a duel," you say.
-[X] "If the two of you must get this out of your system… it will be swords to first blood, no more. Do you understand me?"
Let them fight it out but be a witness and don't let them do stupid things.
[X] "I'm sorry, but I didn't want to disappoint you when I rushed through. I wasn't expecting to spend very long here."
[X] 350mm barbette x 350mm face x 300mm rear x 200mm sides x 135mm top
Comparable to contemporary battleships, but we have the advantage of using Krupp steel. I don't want to overload our ship anymore, too much armour and no speed will get her murdered by air planes.
[X] 80mm
Secondaries don't need to be too heavy.
[X] Call someone in the intelligence service to let them know what Bernd was doing when he got killed.
Best let the intelligence handle this.
[X] Marie, of course, no longer provides that banter even when she is in the office. She has been icily distant towards you in particular, although not in general.
[X] Marie said she was waiting for an "appropriate time" to leave your apartment this morning after spending the night so that nobody would notice. And then called in "sick."
[X] 410mm turret face, 280mm sides, 250mm for the rear of the turret, 175mm turret roof. Barbettes will be 330mm at the upper barbettes, thinning to 240mm for the lower barbettes in the citadel. Conning tower armor will be 380mm.
-[X] I am not about to allow a dueling scandal erupt in this office. Do you want budget cuts to happen? That's what will happen if you go through with this silly duel.
--[X] Moving quickly, you swapped the live rounds in the guns for some soap rounds you kept on hand "just in case". It wouldn't do for your foreign affairs expert and scientist to kill each other.
-[X] "Right. I think I have a pair of dueling pistols in my office, and Severino should wake up soon enough, let's go outside and get things ready, shall we?"
[X] inquire into that Swiss company that has been kicking up quite the storm lately, Oerlikon. They have recently acquired the assets of the German SEMAG company, and have been on the vanguard of light cannon development.
[X] Marie, of course, no longer provides that banter even when she is in the office. She has been icily distant towards you in particular, although not in general.
[X] Marie said she was waiting for an "appropriate time" to leave your apartment this morning after spending the night so that nobody would notice. And then called in "sick."
[X] 410mm turret face, 280mm sides, 250mm for the rear of the turret, 175mm turret roof. Barbettes will be 330mm at the upper barbettes, thinning to 240mm for the lower barbettes in the citadel. Conning tower armor will be 380mm.
-[X] I am not about to allow a dueling scandal erupt in this office. Do you want budget cuts to happen? That's what will happen if you go through with this silly duel.
--[X] Moving quickly, you swapped the live rounds in the guns for some soap rounds you kept on hand "just in case". It wouldn't do for your foreign affairs expert and scientist to kill each other.
-[X] "Right. I think I have a pair of dueling pistols in my office, and Severino should wake up soon enough, let's go outside and get things ready, shall we?"
[X] inquire into that Swiss company that has been kicking up quite the storm lately, Oerlikon. They have recently acquired the assets of the German SEMAG company, and have been on the vanguard of light cannon development.
There's plenty of highly technical information available at the navweaps site for armor, but I'm linking the breakdown of the Witkowitz KC-Type Armor as a caution here. Krupp Steel is not magic, and that the Austro-Hungarians were able to produce a much better KC plate simply by testing the plate against hard-capped AP projectiles (which Krupp refused to do until after WWI) shows they have some oversights. Now Krupp's more specialized steels were generally highly effective but the base type, the so-called "old type" was inferior to British and Austrian plate. German battlecruisers were more survivable simply because they had so much more steel plate than British battlecruisers, not because Krupp provided a magical bonus against AP shells.
With that in mind we can't short on the turret facings just because "muh Krupp stahl."
Generally armored protection would be determined in accord with a holistic review of the ship's capabilities and functions, in line with an "immunity zone" theory against a chosen weapon (usually the ship's own guns). We don't have the tools, time, education, or sophistication to actually establish any of that, but a "balanced" design will be protected against its own guns. The Alpen will mount a very high velocity 14" gun with heavy shells, which in truth probably makes it a low-end 15" gun in disguise. And since the most likely opponent, Italy, mounted 15" guns on the Caracciolo class and is rearming its older dreadnoughts with them, that's what we need to armor against. I'm guessing we're being asked for an average thickness rather than say, the peak thickness at the barbettes, but even so at least matching say the Bayern class at 350mm thickness or the Nagato class at around 380mm thickness is probably necessary.
[X] Marie, of course, no longer provides that banter even when she is in the office. She has been icily distant towards you in particular, although not in general.
We can fix it later. Probably. Maybe.
[X] "So the two of you are going to have a duel," you say.
-[X] "If the two of you must get this out of your system… it will be swords to first blood, no more. Do you understand me?"
Oh dear.
[X] … the lanky figure moved with the gracelessness of one who has only recently attained his full length of limb.
I forgot this vote existed.
[X] "I'm sorry, but I didn't want to disappoint you when I rushed through. I wasn't expecting to spend very long here."
It's true, and fairly neutral.
[X] 152mm top / 305mm sides / 432mm face / 432mm barbettes
Maybe this is too heavy, but hell if we let a shell penetrate the turret and blow the ship to smithereens. Remember, there's no Jutland in this timeline so safe shell-handling practices may or may not be common.
[X] 127mm
Enough to be immune to most fire cruiser and below. No point in trying to armor it against battleship caliber shells.
[X] Call someone in the intelligence service to let them know what Bernd was doing when he got killed.
This doesn't bode well. If they know about this, we are compromised in uncomfortable ways.
The Hawkins and the Koester are the two closest to what we think of as actual cruisers. The Svetlana is a terribly inefficient design, with not all of the guns even being in turrets, let alone the centerline. The Omaha doesn't work as a heavy cruiser in any way shape or form. It sacrifices greatly in every other respect for a maddening speed of 35 knots, and while that makes it an excellent scout cruiser(*You can hear Jackie Fisher's ghost screaming into your ear, "SPEED IS ARMOR, SPEED IS ARMOR"), it makes for a terrible heavy cruiser. The last bit with the Dutch may seem silly, but think about it. British cruisers are always going to be biased towards long range colonial things, something that couldn't be farther from our own interests. The Russians are a decade behind the rest of the Great Powers in naval design, Japan is probably going to build some "innovative" cruiser that ends up being dysfunctional without several refits. German cruisers are a bit too slow for our tastes, and still stick to submerged torpedo tubes and mixed fuel machinery. The USA seems bound to stick to the Omaha design philosophy which is wholly unsuited for us. The Dutch cruisers that will be designed however, are supposed to be as strong as they can on a per unit basis, as they are the shield of Dutch defense in the East Indies. The Dutch know that even now, where they have actual capital ships unlike real life, it would be difficult to defeat the Japanese navy in decisive battle, so they must buy as much time as possible for another power to intervene. The easiest way to do that? Very good cruisers. I would be surprised if the Dutch were to put anything other than their full effort behind the design of their treaty cruisers, and we know that they are aware of the impending cruiser race if Tamas's letter is anything to go by.
@tomwritestuff There is a grammer error that could mess up the vote, are instead of is.
[X] inquire into that Swiss company that has been kicking up quite the storm lately, Oerlikon. They have recently acquired the assets of the German SEMAG company, and have been on the vanguard of light cannon development.
3 inch isn't a bad caliber, but not until the 1950s. For now, they have an uncomfortable middle ground where their rate of fire is not even really double of what the 120mm guns can offer, which makes them nearly useless at close range, while losing most of the bang that makes them useful at long range. Close in 20-40mm guns are what rule for the next 30ish years.
EDIT: Changed duel vote, and the vote that I forgot existed.
I'm guessing we're being asked for an average thickness rather than say, the peak thickness at the barbettes, but even so at least matching say the Bayern class at 350mm thickness or the Nagato class at around 380mm thickness is probably necessary.
You do bring up a very good point as far as clarity goes. I was thinking of face thickness but I did not write that in specifically into the post (my bad).
Please feel free to write in a breakdown of top / sides / face / barbette thicknesses (this is better than a single number); I will aggregate the more granular or less granular votes appropriately.
[X] Marie said she was waiting for an "appropriate time" to leave your apartment this morning after spending the night so that nobody would notice. And then called in "sick."
[X] Marie, of course, no longer provides that banter even when she is in the office. She has been icily distant towards you in particular, although not in general.
-[X] "Right. I think I have a pair of dueling pistols in my office, and Severino should wake up soon enough, let's go outside and get things ready, shall we?"
--[X] Moving quickly, you swapped the live rounds in the guns for some soap rounds you kept on hand "just in case". It wouldn't do for your foreign affairs expert and scientist to kill each other.
[X] 410mm turret face, 280mm sides, 250mm for the rear of the turret, 175mm turret roof. Barbettes will be 330mm at the upper barbettes, thinning to 240mm for the lower barbettes in the citadel. Conning tower armor will be 380mm.
-[X] I am not about to allow a dueling scandal erupt in this office. Do you want budget cuts to happen? That's what will happen if you go through with this silly duel.
[X] inquire into that Swiss company that has been kicking up quite the storm lately, Oerlikon. They have recently acquired the assets of the German SEMAG company, and have been on the vanguard of light cannon development.
Japanese cruisers are in effect terrible. We have neither the time nor the money for something that's liable to fall apart the minute someone looks at it funny.
[X] inquire into that Swiss company that has been kicking up quite the storm lately, Oerlikon. They have recently acquired the assets of the German SEMAG company, and have been on the vanguard of light cannon development.
3 inch isn't a bad caliber, but not until the 1950s. For now, they have an uncomfortable middle ground where their rate of fire is not even really double of what the 120mm guns can offer, which makes them nearly useless at close range, while losing most of the bang that makes them useful at long range. Close in 20-40mm guns are what rule for the next 30ish years.
We might be able to hop on the Bofors train, actually. It started development in '28, but if the Pom-Pom is coming around about this time period then we might be able to see the Swedes version, which is what the Bofors 40mm was initially.
Tenative Vote
PERSONAL
[] Marie said she was waiting for an "appropriate time" to leave your apartment this morning after spending the night so that nobody would notice. And then called in "sick."
-[] (spending the night on your couch)
[] … the lanky figure moved with the gracelessness of one who has only recently attained his full length of limb.
[] "How pleasant to know you look forward to my company. Would you like to come back up to Vienna with me? We could attend an opera."
-[] "I hope you're passable in Itallian- I doubt Wagner is to anyone's taste right now."
WORK
[] "So the two of you are going to have a duel," you say.
-[] "Right. I think I have a pair of dueling pistols in my office, and Severino should wake up soon enough, let's go outside and get things ready, shall we?"
--[] Moving quickly, you swapped the live rounds in the guns for some soap rounds you kept on hand "just in case". It wouldn't do for your foreign affairs expert and scientist to kill each other.
[] MAIN BATTERY 152mm top homogonous/ 305mm sides / 432mm face / 432mm barbettes
[] SECONDARY BATTERY 20mm top/ 20mm sides/ 50mm face / 50mm barbettes
[X] Call someone in the intelligence service to let them know what Bernd was doing when he got killed.
[] EMULATE Hawkins class cruiser
-[] AVOID incremental armor schemes.
-[] EMULATE speed and handling
[] EMULATE Koester class cruiser
[] AVOID Omaha class cruiser
[] AVOID Svetlana-class cruiser
[] TRACK Dutch Cruiser Design
[] TRACK Ottoman Cruiser Design
[] get the reverse-engineered 75mm into widespread production quickly in anticipation of widespread demand.
Alright, explanation time. Personal activities- that's just what I feel is best.
Work, now? The soap bullet duel shouldn't be too terribly painful for all involved, and the worst risk is a broken window or a few bruises. If they get angry, we can always knock some heads together (or more accurately, ask one of our ex-Navy friends to) so that Order is Maintained. On ship design, we've got pretty solid armor to work with, and right now the average for gun penetration (baring anyone figuring out how to be America and get EXTRA HARD EXTRA THICC EXTRA PENETRATION shells) is somewhere between 2/3rds and 1 gun calibers- IE, a 12-in gun should be able to penetrate eight to twelve inches of armor; a sixteen inch gun should be able to penetrate 12 to sixteen inches of armor. As such, if we go for seventeen-inch turret face, we're probably set against anything we're liable to face in battle. The top of the turret, meanwhile, is at equal risk form plunging fire and bombs, both of which six inches of homogeneous plate will stop without too much trouble until the point we need to invest in good air cover. For the secondaries, since they're AA turrets, we need to keep them light enough not to interfere with the RPC that moves them around. An inch should be enough to stop most splinter damage.
On the tertiaries, I'm gonna say French 75 because it's big enough to fight planes and boats when we figure out how to wire it to the AA director, along with being small enough to use unshielded mounts. As an added bonus, it can almost mount a time fuzed shell worth a damn before we get VT!
Which reminds me, we need to test our AA FCC against actual planes ASAP. If we accidentally got HACS as our AA FCC, we need to upgrade that shit faster than you can blink. When the English Medetreranian squadron decided to hold AA practice in WWII, they had HACS as their main system, and the fleet expanded all their ammo with maybe one hit on a target flying level with some gentle curves. Said fleet had VT rounds, which are amazing, and there's no excuse for that sort of horribleness.
On the tertiaries, I'm gonna say French 75 because it's big enough to fight planes and boats when we figure out how to wire it to the AA director, along with being small enough to use unshielded mounts. As an added bonus, it can almost mount a time fuzed shell worth a damn before we get VT!
I'm going to have to vehemently disagree on this point. the 12cm/50 battery already is more than good enough for long range AAA as well as any destroyers that attempt to close the range, and it can do it far better than a 75mm gun can, and the advantage of a time fused shell is far less pronounced at close ranges, which is the gap we're trying to cover with these non 120mm AAA guns. I also suspect that barring some incredible innovation, that there will be few ways to improve the relatively rudimentary AA fire control of this day, even with exercises.
The Bofors train also isn't even a twinkle in anyone's eye yet. The war will probably half over before development has started, while the Oerlikon company already has 20mm cannon available being constantly improved.
[X] Marie, of course, no longer provides that banter even when she is in the office. She has been icily distant towards you in particular, although not in general.
-[X] I have not the time to deal with these shenanigans. I will "convince" the man when he comes to that this is a place of work, not a place to saunter about like a brothel in Lisbon. In exchange, I expect that you will rescind this poorly thought out challenge.
[X] Marie said she was waiting for an "appropriate time" to leave your apartment this morning after spending the night so that nobody would notice. And then called in "sick."
[X] inquire into that Swiss company that has been kicking up quite the storm lately, Oerlikon. They have recently acquired the assets of the German SEMAG company, and have been on the vanguard of light cannon development.
[X] Marie, of course, no longer provides that banter even when she is in the office. She has been icily distant towards you in particular, although not in general.
-[X] I have not the time to deal with these shenanigans. I will "convince" the man when he comes to that this is a place of work, not a place to saunter about like a brothel in Lisbon. In exchange, I expect that you will rescind this poorly thought out challenge.
[X] Marie said she was waiting for an "appropriate time" to leave your apartment this morning after spending the night so that nobody would notice. And then called in "sick."
[X] inquire into that Swiss company that has been kicking up quite the storm lately, Oerlikon. They have recently acquired the assets of the German SEMAG company, and have been on the vanguard of light cannon development.
Before I vote, I wanted to mention some things regarding tertiary armament and AA. Point one, machine guns and small auto cannons work against aircraft now, but will be far less effective as airplanes improve (and they are improving rapidly), and they don't have the reach to get the zeppelins. Hell, if the US and Germany don't have the airship accidents they do, we may see continued development and refinement of airships. Thus we need cannons that can reach out and touch someone. I would go for the new reengineered 75mm. In fact I would ask Skoda to continue to research and improve the design for an increased rate of fire, range, etc. But I would supplement this gun by looking into an autocannon for shorter range work, but I would want something bigger than a 30mm so that we can eventually get VT fuzes for them without difficulty. I suggest we look into either a 55mm or 57mm weapon.
On cruiser designs, we want a 10K ton cruiser that can go 30-34 knots. So the hull form will have to be somewhat fine in regards to beam. This may mean that we don't use turbo-electric drive. Remember turbo electric turbines weigh more than standard steam turbines with the reduction gear box. Once we decide on a good hull, then we can choose whether to go exclusively heavy cruiser loadout or Uber-Chapayev or build some as heavies and the other as uber-Chappies.
Going back to aviation for a minute. Look at how fast we've gone from slow biplanes to the Albatross, and right about now in OTL Hugo Junckers is advancing aviation further with monoplane development. 20mm Oerlikons are a stop-gap at best, and even in OTL they were of marginal use in WWII because a 20mm didn't have the knockdown power against Japanese aircraft, not the most robust or durable airframes in the world.
When looking at cruisers, really, again, the key thing is to be able to match Italian or French developments. They are going to emphasize speed over any other powers, so looking at (say) the Dutch is probably going to lead to the wrong outcome. Also TBH I'm not very impressed with the historical designs that actually got built for the Dutch Navy. There's a level of cost-cutting which is too far even for the KuK Kriegsmarine, which again does need to be able to match the Italians at least.
To be fair, to get that blazing speed out of their cruisers the French and Italian navies are going to sacrifice armor, heavily in the French case with the Duguay-Troins and Suffrens and the Italian Trento class. If we can get 32-34 knot speed without throwing away all the armor we should be fine. If we can get a hull with 32-34 speed with a 5-6 inch armor belt, we should be gold no matter what choice we go with for a main battery, either 150mm or 210mm.
I agree on the Dutch. They may just go ahead and buy existing armored cruisers from other navies to provide their colonies protection, that's how far they could go to pinch the pennies.
When you look at some of the design work the US was putting in OTL with the Spring Styles, I was thinking. There are some fairly innovative and interesting sketches in those documents. Maybe we should talk to the intelligence and diplomatic bureaus about whether a possibility of some sort of working arrangement with the Americans regarding naval design is feasible, especially as the US is pretty frugal, isolationist and concerned with their own waters mostly and Austria is pretty frugal, short of colonies and mostly concerned with our own backyard.
I still think that the 75mm is far too redundant for our purposes. Anything that the 75mm gun can do, the 120mm gun can do better. For anti zeppelin work, 75mm guns historically had trouble reaching up to altitudes of 30km+, which the 120mm gun can do no problem. At this point in time, even just hitting aircraft is going to be one of the biggest challenges, something that autocannons have a much easier time of than 75mm guns will. Also, 20mm shells are still more than adequate for taking down aircraft of this time. IIRC the statistic for the 20mm MG 151 was that it only took 3 or so hits to take down a fighter sized aircraft, and that type of durability won't be achieved for nearly 2 decades. The reason that the US began switching out nearly entirely to the Bofors near the end of the war is because the Bofors was more effective against Kamikaze aircraft which is an entirely different can of worms.
I still think that the 75mm is far too redundant for our purposes. Anything that the 75mm gun can do, the 120mm gun can do better. For anti zeppelin work, 75mm guns historically had trouble reaching up to altitudes of 30km+, which the 120mm gun can do no problem. At this point in time, even just hitting aircraft is going to be one of the biggest challenges, something that autocannons have a much easier time of than 75mm guns will. Also, 20mm shells are still more than adequate for taking down aircraft of this time. IIRC the statistic for the 20mm MG 151 was that it only took 3 or so hits to take down a fighter sized aircraft, and that type of durability won't be achieved for nearly 2 decades. The reason that the US began switching out nearly entirely to the Bofors near the end of the war is because the Bofors was more effective against Kamikaze aircraft which is an entirely different can of worms.
People seem to be forgetting that it is relatively simple to remove or refit 20mm guns to 40mm and so on.
It is much more difficult to refit 75mm mounts.
Use the 20mm's right now, then when aircraft and FCC advances, swap over to larger ones.
Given the nature of the Adriatic, small torpedo boats are probably as much of a concern as torpedo bombers. A 75mm tertiary armament might be a lot more effective deterring MAS boats. Though I suppose something in the 20mm-37mm range might also be effective there. On the gripping hand, though, if Skoda has put a reverse-engineered 75mm gun from the French into production for the Navy, they might be able to also produce a 75mm gun for the Army, which is probably finally looking to replace the badly designed first-generation recoilless artilery batteries. Granted it does already have an excellent 75mm mountain gun on offer, and excellent larger field guns of 10cm and 15cm available, but still.
And the MG151 was that effective as an airborne cannon on a fighter. That effectiveness range is way too close for a ship's comfort level.
And we asked Skoda to reverse engineer the 75mm gun in the first place. Now we are just going to throw that away? Let's not engage in typical quest 'new shiny' decision making. Naval design is all about thinking long term and trying to crystal ball something to be effective for the next two decades. Because Austria-Hungary does not have the money to indulge in just replacing obsolescent equipment at the drop of a hat. We need to be able to grow into and refine our tech to keep our ships viable as long as possible. Because we can't build a replacement for them because we were distracted by fads.
I still think that the 75mm is far too redundant for our purposes. Anything that the 75mm gun can do, the 120mm gun can do better. For anti zeppelin work, 75mm guns historically had trouble reaching up to altitudes of 30km+, which the 120mm gun can do no problem. At this point in time, even just hitting aircraft is going to be one of the biggest challenges, something that autocannons have a much easier time of than 75mm guns will. Also, 20mm shells are still more than adequate for taking down aircraft of this time. IIRC the statistic for the 20mm MG 151 was that it only took 3 or so hits to take down a fighter sized aircraft, and that type of durability won't be achieved for nearly 2 decades. The reason that the US began switching out nearly entirely to the Bofors near the end of the war is because the Bofors was more effective against Kamikaze aircraft which is an entirely different can of worms.
Counterpoint, we can bolt on .50 and 20mm machine guns and cannon with barely any impunity later. Verus a torpedo boat or destroyer, though, those light guns are pretty much useless. We need enough punch to help handle things like that trying to mug us in the Adriatic, and there's going to be a lot of TBs running around in the Adriatic.
People seem to be forgetting that it is relatively simple to remove or refit 20mm guns to 40mm and so on.
It is much more difficult to refit 75mm mounts.
Use the 20mm's right now, then when aircraft and FCC advances, swap over to larger ones.
Not really. The thing is that the 75mm's main disadvantage is that it takes a power mounitng to be really good, while we can skimp with the 40mm and 20mm guns to unpowered mounts. However, 20 and 40mm designs also have the disadvantage of not getting hooked into a main ammo distribution system, just local caches that need to be rearmed by hand. As such, if push comes to shove we can more easily swap 75mm mounts to powered quad 40mm sets if a good 40mm comes up that isn't the Pom-Pom's lazy punt muzzle velocity.
On the tertiaries, I'm gonna say French 75 because it's big enough to fight planes and boats when we figure out how to wire it to the AA director, along with being small enough to use unshielded mounts. As an added bonus, it can almost mount a time fuzed shell worth a damn before we get VT!
Comment: You know how to wire the French 75mm gun to the Vickers 1921 anti-aircraft director you're trying to reverse engineer, because what you're using to reverse engineer it is the user manual the French shipped to the Greeks on how to operate and maintain said 75mm gun with said Vickers anti-aircraft director in anti-aircraft mounts on the French Bretagnes.
What you don't know yet is how to build the director itself.
Adhoc vote count started by tomwritestuff on Oct 22, 2017 at 9:25 PM, finished with 22 posts and 4 votes.
[X] Call someone in the intelligence service to let them know what Bernd was doing when he got killed.
[X] Marie said she was waiting for an "appropriate time" to leave your apartment this morning after spending the night so that nobody would notice. And then called in "sick."
--[X] Moving quickly, you swapped the live rounds in the guns for some soap rounds you kept on hand "just in case". It wouldn't do for your foreign affairs expert and scientist to kill each other.
-[X] "Right. I think I have a pair of dueling pistols in my office, and Severino should wake up soon enough, let's go outside and get things ready, shall we?"
[X] inquire into that Swiss company that has been kicking up quite the storm lately, Oerlikon. They have recently acquired the assets of the German SEMAG company, and have been on the vanguard of light cannon development.
-[X] I have not the time to deal with these shenanigans. I will "convince" the man when he comes to that this is a place of work, not a place to saunter about like a brothel in Lisbon. In exchange, I expect that you will rescind this poorly thought out challenge.
[X] Marie, of course, no longer provides that banter even when she is in the office. She has been icily distant towards you in particular, although not in general.
[X] Marie said she was waiting for an "appropriate time" to leave your apartment this morning after spending the night so that nobody would notice. And then called in "sick."
--[X] Moving quickly, you swapped the live rounds in the guns for some soap rounds you kept on hand "just in case". It wouldn't do for your foreign affairs expert and scientist to kill each other.
-[X] "Right. I think I have a pair of dueling pistols in my office, and Severino should wake up soon enough, let's go outside and get things ready, shall we?"
[X] inquire into that Swiss company that has been kicking up quite the storm lately, Oerlikon. They have recently acquired the assets of the German SEMAG company, and have been on the vanguard of light cannon development.
-[X] I have not the time to deal with these shenanigans. I will "convince" the man when he comes to that this is a place of work, not a place to saunter about like a brothel in Lisbon. In exchange, I expect that you will rescind this poorly thought out challenge.
[X] Marie, of course, no longer provides that banter even when she is in the office. She has been icily distant towards you in particular, although not in general.
[X] Marie said she was waiting for an "appropriate time" to leave your apartment this morning after spending the night so that nobody would notice. And then called in "sick."
--[X] Moving quickly, you swapped the live rounds in the guns for some soap rounds you kept on hand "just in case". It wouldn't do for your foreign affairs expert and scientist to kill each other.
-[X] "Right. I think I have a pair of dueling pistols in my office, and Severino should wake up soon enough, let's go outside and get things ready, shall we?"
[X] inquire into that Swiss company that has been kicking up quite the storm lately, Oerlikon. They have recently acquired the assets of the German SEMAG company, and have been on the vanguard of light cannon development.
-[X] I have not the time to deal with these shenanigans. I will "convince" the man when he comes to that this is a place of work, not a place to saunter about like a brothel in Lisbon. In exchange, I expect that you will rescind this poorly thought out challenge.
[X] Marie, of course, no longer provides that banter even when she is in the office. She has been icily distant towards you in particular, although not in general.
