I can't say I wouldn't support such a reform, but such a comprehensive reorganization would be a period of great weakness for the Monarchy, as the constituent states consolidate themselves, as well as opening up the possibility of states seceding(Then again, there was none of the mass defections the Austrians thought would happen in the war until the collapse at the very end, so I may be underestimating the overall unity brought by the higher quality of life offered by the empire).
I can't say I wouldn't support such a reform, but such a comprehensive reorganization would be a period of great weakness for the Monarchy, as the constituent states consolidate themselves, as well as opening up the possibility of states seceding(Then again, there was none of the mass defections the Austrians thought would happen in the war until the collapse at the very end, so I may be underestimating the overall unity brought by the higher quality of life offered by the empire).
Probably somewhat overestimating the difficulties and the effects. Austria proper already has rather strong instruments of local and regional governance in the Landtags and etc. The Crownlands all have various assemblies, albeit some functioning much more capably than others. The Bohemian estates in particular were notorious for being ineffective (rather like the Reichsrat in general) due to ethnic rivalry between Czech and German parties. Separating the ethnic groups by breaking up the existing regions in favor of more homogenous states (and smaller autonomous communes for scattered, mostly German populations) might bring down the local temperatures, but it wouldn't be a drastic alteration of the status quo. It might be a lot more effective for local governance but then again regional identities are also pretty ingrained and disloyalty from the nationalities was greatly exaggerated and then made a scapegoat for failings in the war. Now by 1918 everything was falling apart, but that was after massive casualties, existing Entente commitments to break up the Empire made defection more appealing, and of course the blockade was starving the Army (and country) to death.
Now the reorganization of Hungary on the other hand would be unprecented since the Magyars had centralized the state quite a great deal. The Croatians did have autonomy but that was it. Of course the Slovaks and Romanians were in many ways the least threatening or troublesome of the Empire's nationalities, and foreign countries (Italy, Serbia, Romania, Russia) don't care about internal conditions of the monarchy when pressing their irredentist claims. Franz Ferdinand did, after all, want to improve the lot of the South Slavic population in Austria-Hungary.
The treaty of Harding may have had the intent of reducing the arms race initiated by the launch of the HMS Dreadnought and continued in the subsequent two decades, but I have seen little evidence of demilitarization of the seas on my deployments, and I am increasingly gripped by the conviction that we are simply being given a moment to breathe before the global arms race continues in a new direction. I have exchanged some correspondence with a Dutch officer I met last year which suggests to me that the Dutch navy anticipates the new direction of the arms race; and I cannot but think him correct.
As we both know, the treaty was primarily intended to regulate the growth in the size and number of battleships and battlecruisers; however, doing so required clearly delineating what qualified as a battleship. Our choice to retain some of our older ships by removing their larger guns and reclassifying them as cruisers has forced the Italians to follow suit with their older armored cruisers, removing the 10" guns and replacing them with 7.5" guns in order to avoid the reverse reclassification.
The limits chosen to define the maximum displacement of future cruisers (10,000 tons "standard" displacement with guns no larger than 21 cm) were chosen largely as a matter of convenience. The first rate powers had already decided to dispense with their few larger cruisers, and the second rate powers, while more interested in retaining their armored cruisers as a secondary battle line, had few cruisers in service exceeding those limits – the German Blücher and Russian Rurik being the two major exceptions. The number of cruisers is otherwise unregulated, and given the immense superiority of larger ships to smaller ones on the strategic scale, the great powers will be inevitably driven towards investing in cruisers that push those treaty limits.
While some slower armored cruisers that routinely exceeded those limits may be considered inefficient and obsolete, fast cruisers have been escalating in size for some time. The British Hawkins class and corresponding German Koester class have essentially reached the 10,000 ton limit; the American Omaha is only a little smaller. The three ships represent three different designs for the new heavy model of cruiser. Each is designed to counter the common cruisers preceding it that make up the backbone of ocean-going navies by investing additional weight in speed, armor, and firepower.
The Omaha seems to invest in mostly in speed, although it also has firepower superior to many scout cruisers. It carries an armament of a dozen 6" guns, double the firepower of the British C and D classes of cruisers. If the reports of a 35 knot top speed are close to accurate, it is faster than the cruisers it is designed to prey upon, and faster than the battlecruisers that have the ability to outfight it (even the British ones), able to engage or disengage on its own terms to apply its superior firepower.
The Hawkins invests in firepower, although it also has speed superior to many scout cruisers. It carries an armament of seven 7.5" guns, with a reported top speed of 31 knots. The distribution of those guns in single turrets makes it unlikely that any single lucky hit may disable its ability to threaten enemy cruisers, and the caliber of the gun is in excess of what nearly any fast cruiser can resist. It is fast enough to keep formation with British battlecruisers, and faster than the battlecruisers operated by other nations.
The Koester invests in armor and firepower, at the cost of a slower speed than the rival Hawkins class. It carries a main armament of eight 21cm guns in twin turrets with a speed of 28 knots. This speed is adequate to keep formation with the Mackensen battlecruisers that make up the mainstay of the German line of battle, while its superior armor and firepower make it a difficult match for any single enemy fast cruiser.
It is not clear what the French and Italian plans are for new cruiser construction; given the reduction in their battleship fleets and their lack of plans for construction of new battleships, it appears likely that such plans will materialize soon unless the two nations embrace disarmament. Neither the Greeks nor the Turks have the capability of producing major surface warships on their own, and are unlikely to innovate in this regard.
As I see it, there are three role which a new heavy cruiser may play for us. First, a long-range vessel capable of operating independently may show the flag of Austria-Hungary abroad, raising our prestige and our global influence. Our older battleships are too slow for such a purpose, and our newer battleships will be too strategically important to risk in such ventures. To be effective in this role, a cruiser will need to be long-legged, capable of speeds of at least 30 knots and amply supplied with fuel.
Second, a cruiser designed for coastal defense with a 22 knot speed may keep formation readily with our older vessels, allowing the maximum possible combat capability for the cost of the resources. SMS Erzherzog Karl, reclassified as a cruiser with sixteen 19cm guns, has firepower that far outmatches the newer cruisers; a new 22 knot coastal defense cruiser could easily match this level of firepower.
Third, a cruiser designed, like the Koester and Hawkins, to match the speed of our fastest ships of the line will be a maximally effective escort. The planned speed of the Alpen is 25 knots so far as I know; a 25 knot cruiser could mate the firepower of the Koester with superior armor protection.
With our limited capacity for production, it is obviously vital that we make the best use of our facilities that we can; having thought on the matter, I am writing to you on the advice of my father, who tells me you are in a position that has some bearing on organizing and evaluating design studies on a new class of cruiser.
Korvettenkapitan Tamás Müller
Adhoc vote count started by tomwritestuff on Oct 14, 2017 at 6:53 PM, finished with 56 posts and 13 votes.
[X] Bányász Gergely, the two young engineers can bounce off each other the whole way to Pilsen and back.
[X] "It is in the Kaiser's best interests that Austria-Hungary's navy is strong. You cannot count on the reliability of the Italians. Oh? Well, I have proof. I will courier that to you."
[X] You told him that you had a family connection of sorts higher up in the decision-making hierarchy, and that your informal connection led to you being yanked out to help smooth out an otherwise deadlocked decision, leaving the precise nature of the connection deliberately vague.
[X] An almost-untouched design study catches your eye, superficially similar to the Alpen- a quad turret fore and aft, with a triple superfiring over the fore quad. The superstructure is tightly abbreviated, with the last turret oddly far aft to make room for a catapult or two quadruple torpedo launchers a side. In the notes, it is mentioned that the catapult would likely need to be retrofitted in, or if that wasn't possible more secondary battery mounts.
[X] You tell her that if she cannot behave with a high level of propriety within the office, you will be forced to let her go from the position in order to preserve your reputation. Her relationship with you, such as it is, must remain on a discreet level.
[X] You went to look at the worksite on Sunday, and while distractedly thinking of a certain woman of Vienna, you bumped into a ladder and got hit by a falling box of rivets.
[X] You tell her that you love her as you love a sister, and you cannot bear to lose her. You will not give that up if you find another woman to love as a wife; you have no natural siblings that you are as close to, and she need not be jealous that some other woman will replace her. You will never love her as a wife, but you will never stop loving her as a sister.
-[X] … with Elizabeth. At some point you asked her to give you her best shot, and she helpfully punched you in the head. (You were drunk, it seemed like a good idea at the time.) She apologized profusely afterwards and kissed the cut one of her rings made.
[X] The imagined Bretagne reconstruction, with quadruple turrets both forward and aft and a split superstructure surrounding a central aircraft catapult.
[X] You tell her that you cannot handle combining your professional working relationship with a personal relationship of a more intimate nature. She cannot be both your secretary and your lover, and must choose which she wants to be.
[X] "If additional metallurgical expertise is made available to us, I can convince Skoda to offer your company a new and extremely capable dual purpose 12cm gun for the Prussia class ships with a favorable 'friends and allies' license agreement."
Nice to see that Birgit's father is a sensible naval officer.
I guess that this is meant to signal to us which general design schemes Pola is going to accept. I'd discard the flag raiser immediately on the grounds that it would be difficult to use outside of the Mediterranean, and the fact that we can do prestige stuff in the Mediterranean just fine. The only use this cruiser would have in war time would be as a raider, as 30 knots+ and range means either unacceptably bad armament, or inadequate armoring to deal with a cruiser it would face when scouting for the battle line.
I don't like the 2nd one either because we have mines, coastal guns, torpedo boats, and destroyers to deal with things the try to crawl up the Dalmatian coastline. It's completely redundant, and is incapable of performing a scout role.
No love for the third one either. Kinda regretting indicating that 25 knot speed limit early on if this is so, since Alpen may very well make 27 knots, and if she can outrun the cruisers because they were designed for 25 knots, well then they're just a slightly faster, and less well armed version and armored version of scheme 2.
I think it would be a good idea to solidify what we want in a cruiser now rather than continuing to discuss the various possibilities of what can be done on 10k tons.
Possible schemes that we've discussed so far include Ultra Chapayev(4 quadruple turrets of 6 inch, I presume a Cleveland like armoring scheme, maybe an inch less), boring(4 double turrets of 8 inch, bog standard treaty cruiser IRL), Panzerschiffe(2 quadruple turrets of 8 inch, can probably stick more of our 12cm DP guns and armor it better at the cost of speed), and the others introduced with Tamas's letter.
Any cruiser needs to be fast enough to pose a threat to their Italian and French counterparts, both of which will certainly go for designs capable of speeds in excess of 30 knots. I'd certainly be interested in looking at a ship with say three quad 21cm turrets, if it's remotely viable to get a balanced design that can meet the minimum speed requirement of 31 knots but I doubt it. Maybe a 10 gun ship with two triples forward and one quad aft, like the Alpen, could provide enough of a firepower advantage without sacrificing too much speed or armor. End of the day though I think eight 21cm guns will suffice and as long as it can get up to 31knots any additional weight can go into armoring against 6" guns and more secondaries.
Personal:
[X] You went to look at the worksite on Sunday, and while distractedly thinking of a certain woman of Vienna, you bumped into a ladder and got hit by a falling box of rivets.
-[X] certain infuriating woman
[X] You tell her that if she cannot behave with a high level of propriety within the office, you will be forced to let her go from the position in order to preserve your reputation. Her relationship with you, such as it is, must remain on a discreet level.
[X] It would be appalling for you to follow in his footsteps, given the cautionary lessons you learned growing up as a bastard yourself.
[X] You will decline this invitation.
Work:
[X] You told him that you had a family connection of sorts higher up in the decision-making hierarchy, and that your informal connection led to you being yanked out to help smooth out an otherwise deadlocked decision, leaving the precise nature of the connection deliberately vague.
[X] An almost-untouched design study catches your eye, superficially similar to the Alpen- a quad turret fore and aft, with a triple superfiring over the fore quad. The superstructure is tightly abbreviated, with the last turret oddly far aft to make room for a catapult or two quadruple torpedo launchers a side. In the notes, it is mentioned that the catapult would likely need to be retrofitted in, or if that wasn't possible more secondary battery mounts.
[X] "It is in the Kaiser's best interests that Austria-Hungary's navy is strong. You cannot count on the reliability of the Italians. Oh? Well, I have proof. I will courier that to you."
[X] Bányász Gergely, the two young engineers can bounce off each other the whole way to Pilsen and back.
[X] Travel to Fiume to retrieve Nicolau. You can pick his brain.
[X] Eight torpedo tubes, in two quad launchers on the aft deck fore of the Y turret.
Personal:
[X] You went to look at the worksite on Sunday, and while distractedly thinking of a certain woman of Vienna, you bumped into a ladder and got hit by a falling box of rivets.
-[X] certain infuriating woman
[X] You tell her that if she cannot behave with a high level of propriety within the office, you will be forced to let her go from the position in order to preserve your reputation. Her relationship with you, such as it is, must remain on a discreet level.
[X] It would be appalling for you to follow in his footsteps, given the cautionary lessons you learned growing up as a bastard yourself.
[X] You will decline this invitation.
Work:
[X] You told him that you had a family connection of sorts higher up in the decision-making hierarchy, and that your informal connection led to you being yanked out to help smooth out an otherwise deadlocked decision, leaving the precise nature of the connection deliberately vague.
[X] An almost-untouched design study catches your eye, superficially similar to the Alpen- a quad turret fore and aft, with a triple superfiring over the fore quad. The superstructure is tightly abbreviated, with the last turret oddly far aft to make room for a catapult or two quadruple torpedo launchers a side. In the notes, it is mentioned that the catapult would likely need to be retrofitted in, or if that wasn't possible more secondary battery mounts.
[X] "It is in the Kaiser's best interests that Austria-Hungary's navy is strong. You cannot count on the reliability of the Italians. Oh? Well, I have proof. I will courier that to you."
[X] Bányász Gergely, the two young engineers can bounce off each other the whole way to Pilsen and back.
[X] Travel to Fiume to retrieve Nicolau. You can pick his brain.
While I personally don't agree with it, I can't deny that there is some merit in basically pulling a Prinz Eugen and Bismarck situation here where they can be easily mistaken for each other which is a fairly significant tactical and strategic advantage in and of itself.
While I personally don't agree with it, I can't deny that there is some merit in basically pulling a Prinz Eugen and Bismarck situation here where they can be easily mistaken for each other which is a fairly significant tactical and strategic advantage in and of itself.
My idea was more leaning towards severing both nationalism (One of us! One of us!) since the Alpen is very much an Austrian design, as well as being a pretty solid ship plan in and of itself. Three turrets lends itself well to armor and guns, and more importantly it leaves us a good-sized citadel area to fill with as much or as little machinery as we please.
End of the day though I think eight 21cm guns will suffice and as long as it can get up to 31knots any additional weight can go into armoring against 6" guns and more secondaries.
Personally I see the merits of two designs. I like the 2 quad turrets Panzerschiffe design (or the 10 gun mini-Alpen) and the Ultra Chapayev design. If we are smart we can produce both designs, but ONLY if we have both of the designs share the same hull design, amount of armor and propulsion plant; with the only difference being in the layout of the main armament and caliber thereof. Building up to the 10K ton limit and standardizing the power plants, armor scheme and hull design should give us the economies to get two classes of ships for the price of one. This also lets us analyze for the future of what type of cruiser will best serve the Navy's needs.
but ONLY if we have both of the designs share the same hull design, amount of armor and propulsion plant; with the only difference being in the layout of the main armament and caliber thereof.
This is, to be frank, nearly impossible. Common design logic states you make sure your powder handling and shell rooms are behind the belt, under the barbett. If we're assuming an identical machinery plant and hull form, something of great difficulty in and of itself, the four-turret design has not only barbett and turret weight to consider, but also the additional length of belt armor- not a light propostion!
Conversely, if we went for identical armor schema and hull form, a two or three turret design would end up with massive amounts of unused citadel space compared to the four-turret model, which is good in that you can make modifications to the machinery and expand it and bad in that you're not maximizing volume efficiency.
Basically, you're trying to cut a Gordian knot here, except said knot has a bomb in it and more than a few hand grenades too. Ship design is terrifyingly hard because everything's interlinked: just changing one variable is impossible.
Personal:
[X] You went to look at the worksite on Sunday, and while distractedly thinking of a certain woman of Vienna, you bumped into a ladder and got hit by a falling box of rivets.
-[X] certain infuriating woman
[X] You tell her that if she cannot behave with a high level of propriety within the office, you will be forced to let her go from the position in order to preserve your reputation. Her relationship with you, such as it is, must remain on a discreet level.
[X] It would be appalling for you to follow in his footsteps, given the cautionary lessons you learned growing up as a bastard yourself.
[X] You will decline this invitation.
Work:
[X] You told him that you had a family connection of sorts higher up in the decision-making hierarchy, and that your informal connection led to you being yanked out to help smooth out an otherwise deadlocked decision, leaving the precise nature of the connection deliberately vague.
[X] An almost-untouched design study catches your eye, superficially similar to the Alpen- a quad turret fore and aft, with a triple superfiring over the fore quad. The superstructure is tightly abbreviated, with the last turret oddly far aft to make room for a catapult or two quadruple torpedo launchers a side. In the notes, it is mentioned that the catapult would likely need to be retrofitted in, or if that wasn't possible more secondary battery mounts.
[X] "It is in the Kaiser's best interests that Austria-Hungary's navy is strong. You cannot count on the reliability of the Italians. Oh? Well, I have proof. I will courier that to you."
[X] Bányász Gergely, the two young engineers can bounce off each other the whole way to Pilsen and back.
[X] Travel to Fiume to retrieve Nicolau. You can pick his brain.
[X] Eight torpedo tubes, in two quad launchers on the aft deck fore of the Y turret.
@7734 with regard to crazy plans and designs, I feel I should not mention the time I designed a CL with I think it was 7 quad turrets. I could only get away with that because I stayed at 8 inch guns tho. (this was like years ago i forgot what it actually looks like, but I know I had 4 turrets forward and 3 aft, all superfiring.)
This is, to be frank, nearly impossible. Common design logic states you make sure your powder handling and shell rooms are behind the belt, under the barbett. If we're assuming an identical machinery plant and hull form, something of great difficulty in and of itself, the four-turret design has not only barbett and turret weight to consider, but also the additional length of belt armor- not a light propostion!
Conversely, if we went for identical armor schema and hull form, a two or three turret design would end up with massive amounts of unused citadel space compared to the four-turret model, which is good in that you can make modifications to the machinery and expand it and bad in that you're not maximizing volume efficiency.
Basically, you're trying to cut a Gordian knot here, except said knot has a bomb in it and more than a few hand grenades too. Ship design is terrifyingly hard because everything's interlinked: just changing one variable is impossible.
Mogami solution? 4 quad turrets of 6 inch guns, interchangeable with... triple, double, double, triple for 8 inch guns?(I like 10 gun+ broadsides). I think Cavalier suggested this earlier, and the weight will work out closely if not exactly, if the universal cruiser hull ends up gaining favor.
In that case, I'm going to advocate for the the Ultra Chapayev/Brooklyn option. That's a design we can achieve the 31-32kt speed requirement, retain belt armor sufficient against 6" gunfire and have the dakka necessary to either escort/protect the battleline from other cruisers and destroyers, or to operate independently in scouting or hunter/killer roles.
At this point in time the ROF on 20cm+ guns is not stellar by any means. This makes them iffy in defence against destroyer/torpedo boats swarms. Going with a 16 gun option of 15cm guns,even if the ROF is only 8 rpm per barrel, that is 128 shots down range per minute, per ship. That is making it rain.
Edit: I hesitate to think of Mogami as a solution due to all the problems inherit with that particular class. What I do think though is that the Brooklyn example does hold water for a common hull design. The Brooklyns were very successful light cruisers, and Wichita proved that you could put a heavy cruiser loadout on a Brooklyn hull and remain treaty compliant.
In that case, I'm going to advocate for the the Ultra Chapayev/Brooklyn option. That's a design we can achieve the 31-32kt speed requirement, retain belt armor sufficient against 6" gunfire and have the dakka necessary to either escort/protect the battleline from other cruisers and destroyers, or to operate independently in scouting or hunter/killer roles.
At this point in time the ROF on 20cm+ guns is not stellar by any means. This makes them iffy in defence against destroyer/torpedo boats swarms. Going with a 16 gun option of 15cm guns,even if the ROF is only 8 rpm per barrel, that is 128 shots down range per minute, per ship. That is making it rain.
Edit: I hesitate to think of Mogami as a solution due to all the problems inherit with that particular class. What I do think though is that the Brooklyn example does hold water for a common hull design. The Brooklyns were very successful light cruisers, and Wichita proved that you could put a heavy cruiser loadout on a Brooklyn hull and remain treaty compliant.
Yeah, the Mogamis had to be brought up to 14000 tons before they were good ships. I like the quote from some British shipbuilding official that was said after he was informed of their supposed capabilities on 8.5k tons. "They're either building their ships out of cardboard or lying.". When I was talking about it I just meant the part where the 5 triple 6 inch guns were swapped out for 5 double 8 inch guns at the start of WW2. I guess what I meant to imply was a cruiser that is actually meant to be able to swap armaments the way the Mogamis could rather than the American cruisers which weren't meant to do that as far as I am aware of.
Mogami solution? 4 quad turrets of 6 inch guns, interchangeable with... triple, double, double, triple for 8 inch guns?(I like 10 gun+ broadsides). I think Cavalier suggested this earlier, and the weight will work out closely if not exactly, if the universal cruiser hull ends up gaining favor.
That's theoretically possible, since quad turrets use fuckhuge barbettes, but then the issue is when the treaty goes kaput and we retrofit to the 8in set we need to do a 6-9 month refit to yank the old turret assemblies, build new turret assemblies, and install them. This is an expensive proposition for a marginal gain in capability- I don't think it would be worth it.
Also- don't try and steal Japanese ideas. They're terrible. Look at the Fusou class. Look at the Ryujou. Look at the Kitakami. Trying revolutionary technology to substitute for evolutionary technology never works.
This is, to be frank, nearly impossible. Common design logic states you make sure your powder handling and shell rooms are behind the belt, under the barbett. If we're assuming an identical machinery plant and hull form, something of great difficulty in and of itself, the four-turret design has not only barbett and turret weight to consider, but also the additional length of belt armor- not a light propostion!
Conversely, if we went for identical armor schema and hull form, a two or three turret design would end up with massive amounts of unused citadel space compared to the four-turret model, which is good in that you can make modifications to the machinery and expand it and bad in that you're not maximizing volume efficiency.
Basically, you're trying to cut a Gordian knot here, except said knot has a bomb in it and more than a few hand grenades too. Ship design is terrifyingly hard because everything's interlinked: just changing one variable is impossible.
In this particular case, the belt length would be pretty much the same - recall that the proposed Bretagne reconstruction is exactly the spacing you get after reconstructing a ship to replace your AB and XY turrets with two widely separated quadruple turrets, leaving a big hole where the Q was in the middle for an aircraft catapult. Ordinarily, a two-turret design could have a more compact citadel, but in this case, we have two comparatively widely spaced quad turrets. Superimpose the Bretagne and Lyon and you'll see what I mean.
If the designs use turboelectric machinery, that makes the arrangement of the machinery spaces a lot more flexible as well. The total space / weight requirement of 15cm guns is about half that of 21cm guns, so that also fits. The weight distribution abovedecks would not be the same, and that has to be attended to carefully.
You would not have the ability to easily convert one type into the other without very significant reconstruction, but you could potentially manage to share a lot of common components between those two. Up to maybe 90% of everything belowdecks.
Adhoc vote count started by tomwritestuff on Oct 15, 2017 at 3:22 PM, finished with 72 posts and 15 votes.
[X] Bányász Gergely, the two young engineers can bounce off each other the whole way to Pilsen and back.
[X] "It is in the Kaiser's best interests that Austria-Hungary's navy is strong. You cannot count on the reliability of the Italians. Oh? Well, I have proof. I will courier that to you."
[X] You told him that you had a family connection of sorts higher up in the decision-making hierarchy, and that your informal connection led to you being yanked out to help smooth out an otherwise deadlocked decision, leaving the precise nature of the connection deliberately vague.
[X] You tell her that if she cannot behave with a high level of propriety within the office, you will be forced to let her go from the position in order to preserve your reputation. Her relationship with you, such as it is, must remain on a discreet level.
[X] You went to look at the worksite on Sunday, and while distractedly thinking of a certain woman of Vienna, you bumped into a ladder and got hit by a falling box of rivets.
[X] An almost-untouched design study catches your eye, superficially similar to the Alpen- a quad turret fore and aft, with a triple superfiring over the fore quad. The superstructure is tightly abbreviated, with the last turret oddly far aft to make room for a catapult or two quadruple torpedo launchers a side. In the notes, it is mentioned that the catapult would likely need to be retrofitted in, or if that wasn't possible more secondary battery mounts.
-[X] … with Elizabeth. At some point you asked her to give you her best shot, and she helpfully punched you in the head. (You were drunk, it seemed like a good idea at the time.) She apologized profusely afterwards and kissed the cut one of her rings made.
[X] You tell her that you love her as you love a sister, and you cannot bear to lose her. You will not give that up if you find another woman to love as a wife; you have no natural siblings that you are as close to, and she need not be jealous that some other woman will replace her. You will never love her as a wife, but you will never stop loving her as a sister.
[X] The imagined Bretagne reconstruction, with quadruple turrets both forward and aft and a split superstructure surrounding a central aircraft catapult.
[X] An almost-untouched design study catches your eye, superficially similar to the Alpen- a quad turret fore and aft, with a triple superfiring over the fore quad. The superstructure is tightly abbreviated, with the last turret oddly far aft to make room for a catapult or two quadruple torpedo launchers a side. In the notes, it is mentioned that the catpult would likely need to be retrofitted in, or if that wasn't possible more secondary battery mounts.
[X] You tell her that you cannot handle combining your professional working relationship with a personal relationship of a more intimate nature. She cannot be both your secretary and your lover, and must choose which she wants to be.
[X] "If additional metallurgical expertise is made available to us, I can convince Skoda to offer your company a new and extremely capable dual purpose 12cm gun for the Prussia class ships with a favorable 'friends and allies' license agreement."
[X] "It is in the Kaiser's best interests that Austria-Hungary's navy is strong. You cannot count on the reliability of the Italians. Oh? Well, I have proof. I will courier that to you."
[X] You told him that you had a family connection of sorts higher up in the decision-making hierarchy, and that your informal connection led to you being yanked out to help smooth out an otherwise deadlocked decision, leaving the precise nature of the connection deliberately vague.
[X] You tell her that if she cannot behave with a high level of propriety within the office, you will be forced to let her go from the position in order to preserve your reputation. Her relationship with you, such as it is, must remain on a discreet level.
[X] You went to look at the worksite on Sunday, and while distractedly thinking of a certain woman of Vienna, you bumped into a ladder and got hit by a falling box of rivets.
[X] An almost-untouched design study catches your eye, superficially similar to the Alpen- a quad turret fore and aft, with a triple superfiring over the fore quad. The superstructure is tightly abbreviated, with the last turret oddly far aft to make room for a catapult or two quadruple torpedo launchers a side. In the notes, it is mentioned that the catapult would likely need to be retrofitted in, or if that wasn't possible more secondary battery mounts.
-[X] … with Elizabeth. At some point you asked her to give you her best shot, and she helpfully punched you in the head. (You were drunk, it seemed like a good idea at the time.) She apologized profusely afterwards and kissed the cut one of her rings made.
[X] You tell her that you love her as you love a sister, and you cannot bear to lose her. You will not give that up if you find another woman to love as a wife; you have no natural siblings that you are as close to, and she need not be jealous that some other woman will replace her. You will never love her as a wife, but you will never stop loving her as a sister.
[X] The imagined Bretagne reconstruction, with quadruple turrets both forward and aft and a split superstructure surrounding a central aircraft catapult.
[X] An almost-untouched design study catches your eye, superficially similar to the Alpen- a quad turret fore and aft, with a triple superfiring over the fore quad. The superstructure is tightly abbreviated, with the last turret oddly far aft to make room for a catapult or two quadruple torpedo launchers a side. In the notes, it is mentioned that the catpult would likely need to be retrofitted in, or if that wasn't possible more secondary battery mounts.
[X] You tell her that you cannot handle combining your professional working relationship with a personal relationship of a more intimate nature. She cannot be both your secretary and your lover, and must choose which she wants to be.
[X] "If additional metallurgical expertise is made available to us, I can convince Skoda to offer your company a new and extremely capable dual purpose 12cm gun for the Prussia class ships with a favorable 'friends and allies' license agreement."
Sharing below deck components to that degree grants a great deal of savings budget wise. (And in future maintenance and refit costs) If we build our cruisers this way, we can have a number of the Ultra Chappys as well as some of the Bretagne options. This would allow us to have the flexibility to meet multiple naval needs and we wouldn't have to rely on a single design to do everything. The nice thing is, even if the treaty gets thrown out the window the ships armed with 15cm guns aren't in need of being upgunned, instead we can look in a evolutionary direction to see if we can't develop a DP 15cm gun. The cruisers armed with 21cm guns can always be upgunned to an extent thanks to the quad turrets, or see if we can't add automation to the loading process with that available space and develop a Des Moines type solution.
If that's the way we go, then it just comes down to deciding how many to build in total and what ratio of Ultra Chappy to Panzerschiffe Bretagne ships we want.
With all this talk on quad turrets it occurred to me the biggest draw back to it is that necessitates wider ships, which will have an imapact on the speed of any ship we make. Requiring more powerful engines which can potentially negate wieght savings of a quad turret.
(this was like years ago i forgot what it actually looks like, but I know I had 4 turrets forward and 3 aft, all superfiring.)