A Daughter's Dedication (Kancolle)
- Thread starter Skywalker_T-65
- Start date
- Location
- Canada
[X] Tell the truth. You don't know where your hull is, but you're willing to try getting it. (Attempt to 'summon' your hull)
-[X] Do it from a safe place, it might be hazardous to do it inside Saratoga.
-[X] Do it from a safe place, it might be hazardous to do it inside Saratoga.
Ivan the Not-so-Terrible
AH MEW CHEEKI BREEKI I V DAMKE
- Location
- Mikonyan’s USSR
[X] Tell the truth. You don't know where your hull is, but you're willing to try getting it. (Attempt to 'summon' your hull)
Dirtnap
Kanmusu Affecionado
Different timeline, apparently the WNT/2LNT fell through here.
[X] Tell the truth. You don't know where your hull is, but you're willing to try getting it. (Attempt to 'summon' your hull)
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Suryn
On the wings of a Dragon
Also the story date is pre 30's. WWII is building up, but hasn't started yet
[X] Tell the truth. You don't know where your hull is, but you're willing to try getting it. (Attempt to 'summon' your hull)
-[X] Do it from a safe place, it might be hazardous to do it inside Saratoga.
- Location
- United States
Yes, hence why I'm calling Saratoga and her captain part of the non-carrier USN since there's only one around, and Langley is a far cry from what an Essex can do.
Ivan the Not-so-Terrible
AH MEW CHEEKI BREEKI I V DAMKE
- Location
- Mikonyan’s USSR
Constitution and Constellation are the conversions ITTL.
Dirtnap
Kanmusu Affecionado
They also don't have the...hmm wahts the word here, engineering knowledge to replicate Lexie though. Sure, you can study the welds and the layout and the engines, but in the 20s they didn't have the tech to make an Essex. Or even a Ranger for that matter.
- Location
- United States
Right, missed those, but 3 early carriers the USN has and aren't sure how to carrier with don't really match up to the fighting force Lexie just left.
No. They won't be able to replicate her. However, the early carrier use was something that can be described as underutilized and admirals were derisive about them. It was not until later when - amazingly long after it was shown carriers could sink battleships, further after it was shown during fleet problems they could take out the Panama locks, and after carriers were used to attack ports - people began to think that carriers might be worth something other than air protection. Lexie can shake things up and get the carrier ball rolling earlier. That is what I am saying. Show how awesome carriers are so that the USN will want to carrier - not build all the Essexes now.
Dirtnap
Kanmusu Affecionado
The problem here is that with the WNT/2LNT apparently dead, its still the big gun BB that rules the waves. Like you said at best the USN uses the CV in a supporting/scouting role. Those examples that you mention (Taranto in particular) haven't happened yet.
Lexie coming won't radically change how the USN at the time was. The Mahanian Doctrine was very very firmly entrenched. If anything the presence of more heavy capital ships in this world reinforces the role carriers play under the Mahanian Doctrine.
- Location
- United States
@Dirtnap, I am not suggesting there will be a complete change in doctrine overnight.
Why is this a difficult concept to express to you? The point I am attempting to make seems to be missing you.
I'll try to be as generic as possible.
Show someone something Great. Try to inspire them to Greatness. Then, when it's their turn, maybe, maybe, maybe, they'll do something Great of their own.
The Great thing can be replaced with many different things - space, writing, sports, monuments, working carrier and aviation doctrines that can sink enemy ships without risking your own navy because you can attack from beyond the horizon.
What I tried to convey in a short, high energy way was put on an airshow, get people hyped, and then engage in discourse that would lead to moments where Lexie could impart potentially important lessons so that the United States Navy, which currently does not know how to properly utilize a carrier, will be in a better position than Lexie's own Navy was when they realized they had to create a working carrier and aviation doctrine after the initial stages of the Second World War proved they did not know as much about carriers as they thought they did and they found their current doctrine insufficient for their needs.
Apparently that failed completely, utterly, and unequivocally.
Why is this a difficult concept to express to you? The point I am attempting to make seems to be missing you.
I'll try to be as generic as possible.
Show someone something Great. Try to inspire them to Greatness. Then, when it's their turn, maybe, maybe, maybe, they'll do something Great of their own.
The Great thing can be replaced with many different things - space, writing, sports, monuments, working carrier and aviation doctrines that can sink enemy ships without risking your own navy because you can attack from beyond the horizon.
This isn't doesn't say radically change the navy right now, you're doing it wrong. Teaching a person or people who have absolutely no frame of reference for what is being taught and no desire to learn the material never learn when all the flaws of the present situation are brought up first. This causes people to become defensive and entrenched. It is better to begin by enticing the students with something that they could find interesting such as cost/reward benefits, practical applications, those science demonstrations that end in fire, or, an air show.
What I tried to convey in a short, high energy way was put on an airshow, get people hyped, and then engage in discourse that would lead to moments where Lexie could impart potentially important lessons so that the United States Navy, which currently does not know how to properly utilize a carrier, will be in a better position than Lexie's own Navy was when they realized they had to create a working carrier and aviation doctrine after the initial stages of the Second World War proved they did not know as much about carriers as they thought they did and they found their current doctrine insufficient for their needs.
Apparently that failed completely, utterly, and unequivocally.
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Maybe the visible shipgirls made WNT a no go?
- Location
- Pacific Northwest
Not gonna happen. The premier advocate for air superiority and force projection, Billy Mitchell, had just been court-martialed, even after sinking battleships from the air. Right now, advocating air power is a confirmed career killer. It's going to take the Fleet Problems from the next decade (if they happen) to even begin to convince some of the more forward thinking officers.
But that won't prevent them from trying. Most of Lexie's systems are refinements or modifications of current stuff. I can see hordes of engineers swarming over her hull, eager to take her stuff apart to see "how did they do that?"
{X} Tell the truth. You don't know where your hull is, but you're willing to try getting it. (Attempt to 'summon' your hull)
-[X] Do it from a safe place, it might be hazardous to do it inside Saratoga.
Safe and Secluded. No reason to draw outside attention to her summoning her hull. However ,it's hard to conceal an 800 ft. plus, 37,000 ton hull. She also has to be aware how long the summoning and the eventual banishment of her hull is going to take, as well as how much it's going to drain her
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- Location
- Pacific NW
Billy Mitchell didn't help his case any by ignoring some of the rules and steps of the demonstration, ie, he didn't allow for damage inspection during a couple of bombing phases before he loaded up even bigger bombs to drop on the Ostfriesland. Such was his zeal to prove that battleships could be sunk from the air. If he had let the damage evaluations happen between rounds of bombing, he certainly wouldn't have been court-martialed.
- Location
- Pacific Northwest
He certainly crossed over to become his own worst enemy. In advocating so zealously, he drove off officers who could have become allies. All the public saw was his accusations of incompetence and negligence against the service secretaries and then his public court martial and resignation.
hfdt123
Hi there. Bye.
- Location
- Tonking in a stop-gap tonk.
I feel like putting on an airshow isn't quite the way to convince them about moving to a carrier-centric doctrine. Perhaps a wargame would be a better method. Beating them on a more level playing field where both sides are ok with the setup would do a better job of convincing them. Not sure how having these planes do formation flying and aerial maneuvers, which is what comes to mind when I heard the word airshow, would convince the traditionalists and moderates in the navy to hop on board. In addition, like what dirt said, chances are they're more heavily entrenched in the Mahanian Naval Doctrine.
- Location
- Pacific NW
But even if she summons her hull, will she have the aircraft with it? And then the Navy would have to call in Howard Hughes and Glen Curtis, who would both be eating their hats and needing tissues simultaneously.
- Location
- Pacific Northwest
It's going to take more than that. Some exercise as big and rigorously planned, implemented, monitored, and scored as the Fleet Problems of the 1930s, is the only way to draw new adherents, as well as gaining respect from skeptics. The problem is, if Lexis wins, they'll be more strident calls to dry-dock her and take her apart, to see how her systems work.