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Every time I read an argument that begins with "everyone who's voting for the option I oppose is borderline sociopathic and/or actively desires to bad-end the quest..."

People really don't care a bit about the lives of our clan mates huh. Our fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters and children. Provoking Drac will put all of them in danger, it will put our dreams and ambitions on the chopping block, hoping the axeman is looking the other way.

I feel a strong temptation to vote for whatever that argument opposes, out of sheer perversity. Because for some reason I always feel like someone's trying to manipulate me when they talk like that. And I don't like being manipulated.
Tell me you only read the first sentence without telling me. I literally lay out why I think so in the following sentence. Am I wrong? Please explain to me how I'm wrong. I even went and continued opening my thoughts in later replies.

Secondly. What do you think manipulation is here? Its literally trying to get people to chance their minds on something. Some people only listen to hard logic, others to emotional call outs. Both are needed to chance peoples minds, which I clearly did try to do. Pretty damn open here imo.
 
[] Caravan protection services:
Your clan has experience in hiring out its rangers as mercenaries and caravan guards. Send out Rangers to the local humans and figure out which if any traders are active in the area, and might be interested in hiring your clan as guards.
Will provide 1d50 Gorls per turn at the start of the service.
Provides an opportunity for young Dawi to learn ranging and axework.
You begin developing protection services.

I think this option is undervalued. While the gold is nice, I consider our best asset, short and long term, to be our rangers. Our position out of the mountains will require us to be proactive more so than other clans and getting a way for more dwarves to learn how to range will be useful.
 
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Frankly I am going to support sending aid to both humans and Dawi. The odds of a negative outcome are low and I believe manageable. Just because we draw the eyes of Evil McCrazy does not mean we will hold his attention for any length of time.

It is expected for us to aid Dawi and I don't think we are so heartless as to aid Dawi but not the humans.

I do not support taking the Dawi in. I cannot accept an option that racks up shame. Shame is a quest ender in a way even an attack on our hold is not.
 
[X] Plan: And Brynduraz Will Answer
-[X]Send aid to them:
-[X]Send supplies to the Dawi of Ubersreik:

[X] Plan: Wheelin' & Dealin'
-[X] Make diplomatic contact with Karak Hirn and Khazid Grentaz:
-[X] Acquiring mountain ponies:
-[X] Laying down the carpentry:
-[X] Expanded Carpentry - Wagons for sale:
-[X]Assign family to azurite extraction and production:
-[X] Keep an eye on the Copperbreakers:
-[X] Seed drills and plows:
 
[] Plan: And Brynduraz Will Answer
-[]Send aid to them:
-[]Send supplies to the Dawi of Ubersreik:

And for those who were convinced by my approach to focus economic actions. In this case a focus on agriculture to support sending supplies to humans and Umgadawi in Ubersreik and synergize with making diplomatic contact with Karak Hirn.
Karak Hirn is so ravenous, they'll import food from Averland, and also grain all the way from Tilean traders who have it shipped in through Barak Varr. And I think that's the case for many Karaks.
The greatest Karak of the Black Mountains. Karak Hirn has historically been reliant on the Empire for food imports, paying with steel and weapons. They have recently founded a new hold named Khazid Grentaz to try and alleviate this problem. But even this new hold has found more interest in lumber and its own mines than working fields.
Coming over and saying we can immediately solve their age old problem with superior and traditional Dawi crops would go a long way towards making a good impression; therefore the plan below.

[] Dawi supply depot
-[] Bill and mattock infantry:
-[] Make diplomatic contact with Karak Hirn and Khazid Grentaz:
-[] Dockyard and barges:
-[] Exporting excess grain:
-[] Black Soil Fertilizer production:
-[] Get to know the province:
-[] Seed drills and plows: (200 Gorls)
-[] Ironbeard's treeman obliterating steamsaw: (200 Gorls)

I'm willing to compromise on some actions like taking out the steamsaw if people think this is too much investment.

Other options are:
[] Caravan protection services:
Your clan has experience in hiring out its rangers as mercenaries and caravan guards. Send out Rangers to the local humans and figure out which if any traders are active in the area, and might be interested in hiring your clan as guards.
Will provide 1d50 Gorls per turn at the start of the service.
Provides an opportunity for young Dawi to learn ranging and axework.
You begin developing protection services.
Instead of the Bill and Mattock infantry to focus more on Rangers, since those takes longer to train so starting early makes sense.

And:
[] Brightstone Caravans and Transportation services:
Some of your Dawi are starting to get itchy feet from staying in the same place for so long. One has asked to be allowed to take his family and their wagons and begin to travel through the Empire as a caravan. He asks for a not insubstantial payment to set up a caravan company.
Will provide 2d50 Gorls per year.
Having a caravan moving through the empire will attract traders to its origin, and provide useful intelligence. Being landbound, this Caravan will provide rumours and information from the Grey Mountains, Vaults, Black Mountains, and Tilea.
Instead of the Dockyard and Barge to focus more on trading with fellow Dwarves and double down on the trading with Karak Hirn option (Black Mountains).

These two options might also better support this: [] Get to know the province:
I'm fine with either really.
 
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The Shame happens only if you don't help the humans.
Rereading that does seem to be the case. It was unclear on my first pass.

I think I am still going to support the more economic aid package because there is less risk of friction between clans that way. A bunch of depressed mourning dwarves with a massive grudge to retake a hold let into our home is a recipe for conflict. The last thing we need is a perceived insult to spark a feud.


Keep the upset Dawi at arms length and extend what help we can.
 
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[X] Plan: And Brynduraz Will Answer

[X] Plan We're Here to Help

[X] Dawi supply depot

Most of the plans are pretty similar, but I think we need to start exporting our grain to Karak Hirn.
 
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[X] Plan: Not our fight.

[X] Plan: Dawi Agriculture Mega Project (D.A.M.P)
-[X] Make diplomatic contact with Karak Hirn and Khazid Grentaz:
-[X] Dockyard and barges:
-[X] Exporting excess grain:
-[X] Truffles and honey:
-[X] Black Soil Fertilizer production:
-[X] Keep an eye on the Copperbreakers:
-[X] Commissioned Engineering:
--[X] Seed drills and plows:
 
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[X] Dawi supply depot
[X] Plan: Dawi Agriculture Mega Project (D.A.M.P)
[X] Plan We're Here to Stay

[X] Plan Not Our Goats
-[x][DRACHENFELS] Do not involve ourselves

[X] Plan: Not our fight.

[X] Plan We're Here to Help
-[X][DRACHENFELS] Send aid to them
-[X][DRACHENFELS] Offer them sanctuary
 
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[X] Plan We're Here to Help
-[X][DRACHENFELS] Send aid to them:
-[X][DRACHENFELS] Offer them sanctuary:


[X] Plan: Dawi Agriculture Mega Project (D.A.M.P)

-[X] Make diplomatic contact with Karak Hirn and Khazid Grentaz:
-[X] Dockyard and barges:
-[X] Exporting excess grain:
-[X] Truffles and honey:
-[X] Black Soil Fertilizer production:
-[X] Keep an eye on the Copperbreakers:
-[X] Commissioned Engineering:
--[X] Seed drills and plows:
 
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[X] Plan We're Here to Help
-[X][DRACHENFELS] Send aid to them:
-[X][DRACHENFELS] Offer them sanctuary:

[X] Plan We're Here to Stay
-[X] Make diplomatic contact with Karak Hirn and Khazid Grentaz:
-[X] Bill and mattock infantry:
-[X] Dockyard and barges:
-[X] Exporting excess grain:
-[X] Combine Ironhorn and Hidetender efforts.
-[X] Get to know the province:
-[X] Seed drills and plows:
-[X] Prospecting crew from Karak Izor:
 
[X] Plan: I am a dwarf and I build a lot
-[X] Heavy spears and boar-hunting
-[X] Troggkul
-[X] Laying down the carpentry
-[X] Caravan protection services:
-[X] Expanded Carpentry - Wagons for sale
-[X] Granite suitability for runecraft

[X] Plan: And Brynduraz Will Answer
-[X]Send aid to them:
-[X]Send supplies to the Dawi of Ubersreik:
 
And in favor of sending aid to Ubersreik

Drawing the eye of Drackfel MAY cause problems, but having a city collapse and for Beastmen and Green skins move in May ALSO cause problems.

Reposting vote to make sure it's inside the vote window.

[X] Dawi supply depot

[X] Plan: And Brynduraz Will Answer
-[X]Send aid to them:
-[X]Send supplies to the Dawi of Ubersreik:
 
[X] Plan: And Brynduraz Will Answer
-[X]Send aid to them:
-[X]Send supplies to the Dawi of Ubersreik:

[X] Plan: Wheelin' & Dealin'
-[X] Make diplomatic contact with Karak Hirn and Khazid Grentaz:
-[X] Acquiring mountain ponies:
-[X] Laying down the carpentry:
-[X] Expanded Carpentry - Wagons for sale:
-[X]Assign family to azurite extraction and production:
-[X] Keep an eye on the Copperbreakers:
-[X] Seed drills and plows:
 
[X] Plan: And Brynduraz Will Answer
-[X]Send aid to them:
-[X]Send supplies to the Dawi of Ubersreik:

[X] Plan: Wheelin' & Dealin'
 
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[X] Plan: Grain and Honey
-[X] Make diplomatic contact with Karak Hirn and Khazid Grentaz:
-[X] Bill and mattock infantry:
-[X] Laying down the carpentry:
-[X] Exporting excess grain:
-[X] Assign family to azurite extraction and production:
-[X] Survey local lands:
-[X] Seed drills and plows
-[X] Alrik's efficient grot-whirler
-[X] Alcohol fuelled mining drills and ore sorters (repeatable): (azurite)

[X] Plan: Not our fight.
-[X][DRACHENFELS] Let them die.
-[X][DRACHENFELS] Do not involve ourselves:

[X] Plan: Dawi Agriculture Mega Project (D.A.M.P)
 
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