Unfortunately, it's almost certainly just a matter of time. The causes of Prohibition aren't the sort of things we can butterfly away. I'm talking about stuff like classism, xenophobia, and difficulty talking about spousal abuse.
Valkyria Chronicles: Drums of War
- Thread starter Ithillid
- Start date
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[X] [Coulerouge] Maintain Partnership (3 dice, 15 resources per die, 30 percent stake) (+2 Ragnite)
[X][FSO] Permitted until proven unsafe for human consumption.
[X][Admin] Fiona Harris - Forester
[X] [Coulerouge] Maintain Partnership (3 dice, 15 resources per die, 30 percent stake) (+2 Ragnite)
[X][FSO] Permitted until proven unsafe for human consumption.
[X][Admin] Fiona Harris - Forester
- Pronouns
- He/his/him
[X][FSO] Permitted once proven safe for human consumption.
[X] [Torpedo] McCowell (2 dice, 30 resources per die, 35 percent ownership share, 12 months)
[X] [Coulerouge] Maintain Partnership (3 dice, 15 resources per die, 30 percent stake) (+2 Ragnite)
[X] [Torpedo] McCowell (2 dice, 30 resources per die, 35 percent ownership share, 12 months)
[X] [Coulerouge] Maintain Partnership (3 dice, 15 resources per die, 30 percent stake) (+2 Ragnite)
[X] [Torpedo] McCowell (2 dice, 30 resources per die, 35 percent ownership share, 12 months)
[X] [Coulerouge] Maintain Partnership (3 dice, 15 resources per die, 30 percent stake) (+2 Ragnite)
[X] [Admin] Fiona Harris - Forester
[X] [FSO] Permitted until proven unsafe for human consumption.
[X] [Coulerouge] Maintain Partnership (3 dice, 15 resources per die, 30 percent stake) (+2 Ragnite)
[X] [Admin] Fiona Harris - Forester
[X] [FSO] Permitted until proven unsafe for human consumption.
Another thing we should do long term is research Valkyria stuff (Humanely obviously.) as much as possible.
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I applaud your gathering of information here but I believe that second paragraph was not Ithillid's view on marijuana but instead a quotation from the "Report of the Indian Hemp Drugs Commission, 1894-1895" a real life contemporary study from the time period.
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
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I understand that part, but I was quoting that to point out that in the Marijuana talks people like me are glossed over at best. The topic being discussed is the complexity of the intersection of politics, regularions and market capture and in that context my post is about how market capture can be like a nestled doll:
The people fighting for the suppressed market can themselves be suppressing information about how people interact with their market end up with bad outcomes for the same reason the people who are suppressing the market.
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To be clear, is "Reefers" an actual common-usage term within a large group, who as schizophrenics fear that increased marijuana use will result in more of the people predisposed to schizophrenia experiencing worse or more pronounced or earlier onset of that condition?
Or is this like that time, years ago, when you were talking about the "Chloris Cowl" and the "Pure Archer" as being 'archetypes' and the other thread participants couldn't tell what you were talking about?
I want to make sure that you understand that I am not dismissing the health concern "schizophrenics have cause to be concerned that marijuana use may be bad for the category of people who have a predisposition to schizophrenia." I just want to make sure that the word you're using for it is, for lack of a better term, a real word that is used out in the broader cultural consensus reality. And not one you've made up on the spot, as you occasionally do.
As you can imagine, it would be hard for me to do a Google search for "Reefers" and find more information on the people who share your concern, without being flooded by other information that would not help me learn more.
I'm not so much leaving it out as considering it somewhat irrelevant.
In 1940, Rev. Fifield did indeed give a speech to a packed crowd of prominent conservatives, businessmen, and conservative businessmen. He was talking about how the corporate right could use the religious right to oppose the New Deal. But he was only in a position to do so because previously in America, evangelical religion and its prototypical form had exercised a great deal of political muscle in an organized fashion as the force behind Prohibition.
The corporate right did not create the religious right, nor vice versa. The two formed an alliance, and we see this if we trace the evolution of certain ideological elements within the broader American right. For instance, the pre-WWII corporate right didn't have much to say about gender and sexuality issues, but a great deal to say about the dangers of 'socialism' latent in welfare programs and regulation of industry. The pre-WWII evangelicals mostly had relatively little to say against welfare and regulation of industry, but a great deal to say about condemning what they called "degeneracy" and insisting on traditional social frameworks.
The post-WWII conservative movement, as demonstrated when it first got its legs under itself to move with McCarthy and then again and again with Goldwater, Nixon, and so on, cared deeply about both.
When we trace specifically the ancestry of American politically active evangelical religion, the trace goes back to the temperance movement and Prohibition. This is not to ignore the dynamics of how they came to be part of a broader right-wing alliance after Prohibition ended.
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
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It's more complicated than that. It's not just schizophrenics that fear that increased marijuana use will result in more of the people predisposed to schizophrenia experiencing worse or more pronounced or earlier onset of that condition. See schizophrenia is the end point of a cluster of mental disorders usually just called Cluster A or Odd/Eccentric Personality Disorders.
For schizophrenics specifically marijuana use has the effect of making their symptoms worse, more pronounced and to appear earlier. But for schizotypal personality disorder for an example:
Article: Abstract
Background
Studies to date showing an association between cannabis use and schizophrenia-spectrum disorders are of relatively small sample sizes with limitations in generalizability. The present study addresses this gap by examining the relationship between cannabis use and psychotic-like symptoms in a large representative community sample.
Method
Data were derived from the 2004 – 2005 National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions (NESARC, Wave 2), a large, nationally representative sample of 34 653 adults from the United States population. We evaluated the association between lifetime cannabis use, psychosis, and schizotypal personality features.
Results
The prevalence of psychosis and schizotypal personality disorder increased significantly with greater cannabis use in a dose-dependent manner. The association between cannabis use and psychosis was 1.27 (95% CI 1.03–1.57) for lifetime cannabis use, 1.79 (95% CI 1.35–2.38) for lifetime cannabis abuse, and 3.69 (95% CI 2.49–5.47) for lifetime cannabis dependence. There was a similar dose-response relationship between the extent of cannabis use and schizotypal personality disorder (OR = 2.02 for lifetime cannabis use, 95% CI 1.69–2.42; OR = 2.83 for lifetime cannabis abuse, 95% CI 2.33–2.43; OR = 7.32 for lifetime cannabis dependence, 95% CI 5.51–9.72). Likelihood of individual schizotypal features increased significantly with increased extent of cannabis use in a dose-dependent manner.
Conclusion
This is the first population-based study to examine the association between lifetime cannabis use, psychosis, and schizotypal personality traits. These results add to evidence that cannabis use may be a risk factor for psychosis liability.
It has the effect of causing in in people that wouldn't have developed it otherwise and the more marijuana is used the likelier it is for the schizotypal personality traits to appear and stick around.
Not only that:
Article: Abstract
Background
While increasing evidence suggests that cannabis use may play a role in the development of schizophrenia in some young people, less is known about the strength and specificity of its relationship to latent schizophrenia liability, i.e., schizotypal personality disorder traits.
Aims
Determine the predictive value of cannabis use during childhood and early adolescence on schizotypal personality disorder (SPD) symptoms projecting into adulthood, using a community-based longitudinal cohort from upstate New York.
Method
Prospective data from 804 participants was used to determine associations between early cannabis use and later schizotypal symptoms, accounting for important potential confounds (e.g., adolescent schizotypal symptoms).
Results
Cannabis use with onset prior to age 14 strongly predicted SPD symptoms in adulthood, independent of early adolescent SPD symptoms, major depression, anxiety disorder, other drug use, and cigarette use. There was no interaction effect of early cannabis use and early adolescent SPD symptoms on SPD symptoms into adulthood.
Conclusions
Our data provide further support for a strong association of early cannabis use with the development of symptoms characteristic of schizophrenia spectrum disorders. As with studies in schizophrenia, early SPD symptoms could not fully explain the association of early cannabis use with later schizotypal symptoms. The mechanisms that underlie the association of cannabis use and schizotypal symptoms in a developmental context deserve further exploration.
but use of marijuana before the age of 14 can cause schizotypal personality disorder later in life regardless of if the person using weed has a predisposition towards the disorder.
As for Schizoid and Paranoid Personality Disorders?
Schizoids regularly use marijuana and stimulants to personally self-medicate and it is thought that their marijuana use makes their symptoms worse, but I can't find a good study that confirms or denies this claim.
Paranoids on the other hand usually rely on alcohol and other sedative drugs to self-medicate and the combination of the fact that marijuana can heighten paranoia in ordinary people in the cases of bad reactions and that Paranoids in general because of their problems don't volunteer for studies means that there are horror stories of Paranoids using marijuana and losing it badly that then scare most Paranoids from even trying the drug, let alone participating in studies about the effects of the drug on their mental health.
So it's people who are on some part of the Cluster A Personality Disorder Spectrum have multiple causes to be concerned about how using marijuana is bad for them long term and when talking to people outside of the culture surrounding the spectrum about marijuana specifically they go for the reference point of Reefer Madness because that is the only reliable cultural touchstone.
Unless I'm talking specifically about the bad outcomes people like me who are on some part of the Cluster A Personality Disorder Spectrum experience from using marijuana I don't refer to myself as a reefer and I don't know of anyone else who does that either.
So it's a common introductory shorthand for starting this topic and nothing else. Once the topic is dived into there is no need to use the term.
If you want to find what are the health concerns for the various disorders go look up studies, if you can find them, on what are the effects of marijuana use for each of them. I can find studies for schizophrenia and schizotypal that say marijuana use makes the former worse long term and can cause the latter, but for schizoid there is only the expectation that it makes their disorder worse without a good study to prove it and for paranoid there is still argument over whether it even exists as a single disorder so reliable studies can't even be defined properly there.
Ah I got the topic you were talking about wrong, sorry about that. My bad.
The relevant issue here is what attitudes were like around 1900, as regards marijuana usage. Ithillid has provided a relevant citation in his post, from shortly before this time. You seem to be arguing based on evidence/studies/personal experience, all of which are from decades/over a century later. This seems entirely irrelevant to the thread. (Or, only relevant insofar as eventual studies in the far future may find some level of harm done to consumers.)
But I think that discussion of non-food items as regards the Food Safety Office is rather premature. Its mandate does extend to "any product designed for human consumption", but the obvious place to start is food, and probably medicines after that, and that will take quite a while to get to the point of looking at recreational usages. Or so I expect.
But I think that discussion of non-food items as regards the Food Safety Office is rather premature. Its mandate does extend to "any product designed for human consumption", but the obvious place to start is food, and probably medicines after that, and that will take quite a while to get to the point of looking at recreational usages. Or so I expect.
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Speaking of the Natives of Not-America, can we pass any laws to make up for taking their land?
Also any Anti-Discrimination Laws for Both them and the Darcsens?
Also any Anti-Discrimination Laws for Both them and the Darcsens?
No, we're the department in charge of preparing for war, not the entire government. Also, as this is Vinland, a number of Native American groups have been incorporated as states or regional governments - see the Dine, who got a machine-gun factory built in their land.
We can try to work to reduce discrimination around the edges, but our remit is rather limited, and does not include legislation unless we have a good reason to lobby Congress for it.
That is very much out of our department's wheelhouse. Our job is infrastructure and development projects with some policy suggestions to improve those things.
Didn't say it had to be now, just if it was something we could do later on.
The issue is not "this isn't in our power now". The issue is "this is not something the department will ever have the power to do."
You're asking if the HR division of a company might one day start manufacturing plush toys.
Given the bits and pieces where we have seen the federal government interacting with various native peoples, even if at a remove for us as players, the Vinlanders have much, much better relations and power balance with the descendants of Europan colonizers than there was IRL.
Thebacha, Coulerouge, Dettah and the Black Hills ragnite mines all have blurbs pointing out that the government is accommodating to the concerns of the locals, rather than just laughing in their faces, beating them down, and taking what they want.
Thebacha, Coulerouge, Dettah and the Black Hills ragnite mines all have blurbs pointing out that the government is accommodating to the concerns of the locals, rather than just laughing in their faces, beating them down, and taking what they want.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Indeed, we've been getting this from the very first post, which features someone who sounds like they might be a typical 1900-era bureaucrat by background talking to their clearly Native Vinlander deputy casually, as to an equal who happens to be junior in age and official status, not to a racial inferior.
[X] [Torpedo] McCowell (2 dice, 30 resources per die, 35 percent ownership share, 12 months)
[X] [Coulerouge] Maintain Partnership (3 dice, 15 resources per die, 30 percent stake) (+2 Ragnite)
[X][FSO] Permitted until proven unsafe for human consumption.
[X][Admin] Fiona Harris - Forester
[X] [Coulerouge] Maintain Partnership (3 dice, 15 resources per die, 30 percent stake) (+2 Ragnite)
[X][FSO] Permitted until proven unsafe for human consumption.
[X][Admin] Fiona Harris - Forester
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
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The attitudes around the 1900s is that schizophrenia is a type of dementia called dementia praecox, before being defined as schizophrenia in 1908, schizotypals are being described as having an excitable personality which was got them labeled as problematic, schizoids habits are such that they were seen a type of schizophrenia, see Eugen Bleuler's Dementia Praecox or the Group of Schizophrenias, while Paranoids are already on the books because of Valentin Magnan's work on psychosis as "fragile personalities".
The temperance movement had a bad habit of using Paranoids as an inspiration for some of their propaganda because of how the two original The Drunkard's Progress were depicted and then recycled into the movements propaganda. It oversimplified the problem of alcoholism while using neurodivergent people as an incorrect representation of a more general problem.
- Location
- The Underdark
This is Vinland, a fair number of tribes and coalitions of tribes that are states. That have seats in the house and senate.
Stepping more broadly, one of the things I decided, especially in light of current events, that I didn't want a lot of my updates to include a lot of racialized violence. If I was doing my duty as a historian, and as someone aware of history? I would have a damn lynching statistic up on the dashboard. In 1900, 115 people were lynched. In 1901 130 people. The vast majority of whom were African Americans. (Combined, less than forty of them were not african american, and most of those were of various other minority groups). In 1915 the Second Ku Klux Klan would launch. In 1921, Tulsa would see two days of massacre and nearly 40 blocks of the greenwood district destroyed by a white mob, including government officials.
Now, there were two ways I could go about it. I could either whitewash it, and just, not talk about all of the things that were happening, or I could go the other direction, and play out the impacts of making a more just Vinland. I decided to go with a more just Vinland, because that sounded far more interesting, and far more coherent.
Huh. I wonder how they reconciled the cultural differences.
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
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You left out and far more Liberal. The consequences of having a more equal state is that the opportunities to be complete bastards are also far more equal. This is Valkyria Chronicles where people do some ugly shit just on the principles of the setting even without the parallels that could be drawn with our timeline.
So long as you keep the stuff about race and power that makes up the bulk of the story in Valkyria Chronicles I don't care if this is a more just USA. After all this is still an alternate USA that was willing to use children as nukes. Contrasting that with a more equal and just society just fits the anime themes more.
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- Mid-Atlantic
Yes. The point is that we aren't going to snap our fingers and bring Vinland to a perfectly refined understanding of all things. While 1900-era Vinland is less of a giant sociological exercise in disgraces trending only slowly towards improvement than 1900-era America was, it is still a plausible 1900-era country. Thus, both the understanding of marijuana, and the understanding of mental illness, are limited to roughly the state they were in around the year 1900. The understanding of how the two are connected will of course be quite limited.
Remind me again whose crops those were?
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Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
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- Belgrade,Serbia
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Sorry I'm going to have to say what on FDR burning people's crops. Could you find me an article about that? Cause all I can find is that he paid people to have their cattle slaughtered and sometimes fed to people trough the DRS.
As far as I can tell it was the farmers who burned their crops in an attempt to raise prices. Am I only finding some sort of misinformation?