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Of Stolen Valor and Copied Flesh (A Clone Primarch 40k Quest)

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ThunderOwl said:
Angron yes, but Lorgar earns his damnation. The guy needed to use faith as a crutch so much that when the object of his veneration reject it violently (after repeated insistence that He wasn't a God), the most logical thing in his mind was to start worshiping something way worse. Their clone would just carry on business as usual with either the Emperor or the Chaos gods.

Curze´s clone has plenty to work with, we are dealing with someone who has their worldview not so much as shattered as it is thrown into a trash compactor. Their iron-clad belief in the inevitability of his visions is gone, alongside with that of the justice of their methods, so the clone journey is one of introspection and redefining oneself, and with that regret and redemption will come, as they learn to assume and deal with the consequences and responsibility of the original actions, which he didn't accept before because he was "fated" to do them. All of this with an Imperium and a Legion that will be confused and divided about their existence and potential actions.

While Sanguinius clone has to deal with being the "cheap copy" of the glorious, perfect and tragic figure that the real Sanguinius was, their arrival is much more clear cut in terms of morality and it is overall a neat positive to both the Imperium and the Blood Angels, which I find much less interesting than the new Night Haunter´s tale.

Also, Goth girls with issues, what isn`t to like?
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Big ball of angst and regret being tossed into a galaxy already burning in mistakes and grimdarkness.

I like the more clear-cut bringer of hope who actually knows how to lead and inspire. Even the Sanguinius girl will probably face a lot of heresy or mutation allegations, and there's a massive pile of problems to work on already.
Sanguinius is one of the few beloved enough to get a happy family reunion going. He's had interactions with the Silent King, and Dante and the Sanguinor are interesting enough for me to pick the Red Angel.

The Curze clone is just throwing a ball of problems at a galaxy already drowning in them. Obviously the MC isn't gonna be a sadist, so don't want to waste time having to read through angsty monologues about how the clone isn't like other girls Curze.
 
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Alpaca27 said:
If it has to be a traitor, I'd prefer Angron or Lorgar. Both of them screwed by their own circumstances and deserving of a second chance.
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The same logic applies to Curze though, considering he had to raise himself on Nostramo and deal with his visions.
Alpaca27 said:
Obviously the MC isn't gonna be a sadist, so don't want to waste time having to read through an angsty monologue about how the clone isn't like other girls Curze.
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Again, that's going to happen no matter which one we pick, its a staple of clone fiction.
 
Karnax626 said:
Again, that's going to happen no matter which one we pick, its a staple of clone fiction.
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Yeah but it's gonna be particularly eye-rollingly angsty with Curze. He was just so cartoonishly evil.

All the choices already have to deal with the fact that the Imperium has turned into complete garbage, so I'd just prefer a protagonist that could effect positive change more often then struggling with their own memories.
 
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Alpaca27 said:
I like the more clear-cut bringer of hope who actually knows how to lead and inspire. Even the Sanguinius girl will probably face a lot of heresy or mutation allegations, and there's a massive pile of problems to work on already.
Sanguinius is one of the few beloved enough to get a happy family reunion going. He's had interactions with the Silent King, and Dante and the Sanguinor are interesting enough for me to pick the Red Angel.

The Curze clone is just throwing a ball of problems at a galaxy already drowning in them. Obviously the MC isn't gonna be a sadist, so don't want to waste time having to read through an angsty monologue about how the clone isn't like other girls Curze.
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I see it less as "muh angst", even if there is going to be some, but more as a matter of self-improvement and reflection, of owning your mistakes and rising above them. Coupled together with how the Night Lords where giving signs of reunifying themselves, it could give us cool interactions with the different candidates to the Legions leadership, like Decimus, Zso Sahaal, Krieg Acerbus,... And that´s without delving in the interactions with Guilliman and the Lion after all that mess with Imperium Secundus.

Also, angst is inevitable with all the characters. As I´ve mentioned before, Sanguinius is going to struggle with the idealized image that everyone is going to have of them. As for positive change in the Galaxy, I expect Sanguinius to enact positive changes, someone much more flawed like Curze doing them is more satisfying and a sign of growth.

Finally, the argument that Curze is cartoonishly evil is like saying that Sanguinius is just a stock perfect protagonist. Both are very reductive of the character in question.
Profilozof said:
I kinda wanted to see angron without nails like imagine the complete angst Guilman would feel after meeting nailess angron
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No matter the option, the angst is going to hit Blueberry boy like a cyclonic torpedo. Being Guilliman is suffering.
 
ThunderOwl said:
No matter the option, the angst is going to hit Blueberry boy like a cyclonic torpedo. Being Guilliman is suffering.
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Yeah, even though Angron may have had more beef with Roboute, Roboute arguably had more beef with Curze, on account of Curze getting loose on Macragge and terrorizing its people personally, not to mention he tried to kill Guillimom.
 
Alpaca27 said:
Yeah but it's gonna be particularly eye-rollingly angsty with Curze. He was just so cartoonishly evil.

All the choices already have to deal with the fact that the Imperium has turned into complete garbage, so I'd just prefer a protagonist that could effect positive change more often then struggling with their own memories.
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Despite them being clones these are all still Primarchs, all of them will have the ability to enact change.

I find Curze interesting because she can't just go with what her predecessor did, she's going to have to figure out new methods. Fen!Sang runs the risk of being too close to the original in that respect.
 
ThunderOwl said:
Finally, the argument that Curze is cartoonishly evil is like saying that Sanguinius is just a stock perfect protagonist. Both are very reductive of the character in question.
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Curze eats people slowly so they can feel it and made a castle out of still living people called the Screaming Gallery. I don't know how much farther you can go by justifying it with a rough childhood.
 
Karnax626 said:
I find Curze interesting because she can't just go with what her predecessor did, she's going to have to figure out new methods. Fen!Sang runs the risk of being too close to the original in that respect.
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Orrrr, we could go for Angron if you want that since I doubt she's going to jump towards being a mindless berserker again and has A LOT of self-discovery to do to figure out who they are. Plus we get to try out those empathic powers that the original never really had the chance to use, and it sounds like those would be great to have while surrounded by a bunch of people who are in flight-or-fight mode right this second.
 
Alpaca27 said:
Curze eats people slowly so they can feel it and made a castle out of still living people called the Screaming Gallery. I don't know how much farther you can go by justifying it with a rough childhood.
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I´m not trying to justify anything, I´m arguing that both characters have depths, not that what he does is justifiable. Both characters have different character arcs and paths that are equally interesting even if they have different themes. It´s fine if you prefer one over the other, but that doesn´t mean you can bash the other.
 
ThunderOwl said:
I´m not trying to justify anything, I´m arguing that both characters have depths, not that what he does is justifiable. Both characters have different character arcs and paths that are equally interesting even if they have different themes. It´s fine if you prefer one over the other, but that doesn´t mean you can bash the other.
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Not entirely sure how it's bashing considering everything I said about him was true? He did do a lot of horrible things, and enjoyed them. I guess the doomed prophet chained by fate and his own nightmares can be compelling.
But as the Primarch literally focused around torturing people in the most over-the-top and creative ways possible, cartoonishly evil is just the description that comes to mind.

Just can't shake the image of the writers desperately trying to come up with something outlandish to top the last utterly wild punishment Curze came up with, makes me laugh.
 
I just want to give Curze a chance to Be Better when he's not soaking in Maximum Darkness And Despair Dreams 24/7/365.
 
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