[X] Plan Wissenland Wakes
The Old World: Dark Age of the Empire
- Thread starter Warkeymon
- Start date
- Fantasy
What is gunpowder production like in our province and in the rest of the empire? How standardized is it and how is our quality in comparison to dwarven-made gunpowder? Another quest I've been reading "The Life and Suffering in Sigmar Empire: Warhammer Fantasy Wizard Advisor Quest" made a really interesting point about gunpowder production in the empire.
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- Pronouns
- Warkeymon
Blackpowder from Nuln is based on Dwarfen Blackpowder, the Imperial Gunnery School was started by Dwarfen Engineers from Karak Norn. As such the quality is the same, provided everyone involved keeps to the same standards as the original process given by the Dwarfs. Humans making Blackpowder aren't always as precise or interested in following procedures exactly as a Dwarf doing the same work so the theoretical quality and the actual quality can diverge a little.
So yes, consistency is probably the main problem with regards to Blackpowder production. But Blackpowder weapon technology is hugely distinct, that's where the Dwarfs have the main advantage.
Nuln and Hergig are the two main producers of Blackpowder weapons and therefore Blackpowder but none of the Provinces want to be dependent on someone possibly part of another faction for their Blackpowder. Marienburg might have deals to ship powder in from the Dwarfs or Ostland might have deals to bring powder in from Erengrad, but most provinces have at least a small amount of in house production.
For Wissenland the Gunnery School and the College are both capable of mass producing Blackpowder though the Gunnery School has priority contracts requiring the Militarstutz to go to them first. So long as you have materials and the Iron Companies have access to Nuln, you'll not run out of Blackpowder.
- Location
- Germany
Last try.
I think the Anti-Sylvanian Pact plus our own trials is a mistake.
If Vlad escalates we are fucked.
If he doesn't, it will still end up with an heir he likely controls in charge of Stirland.
Either way, we loose.
On the opposite suggestion, if we divide Stirland, we get good land, improve our standing with Averland and Vlad only gets a third of what a he wants, with no good-looking reason to fight us for more right now.
I think the Anti-Sylvanian Pact plus our own trials is a mistake.
If Vlad escalates we are fucked.
If he doesn't, it will still end up with an heir he likely controls in charge of Stirland.
Either way, we loose.
On the opposite suggestion, if we divide Stirland, we get good land, improve our standing with Averland and Vlad only gets a third of what a he wants, with no good-looking reason to fight us for more right now.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Wissenland Wakes
Changing my vote.
Changing my vote.
- Location
- Centro Italia
I would suggest using master bugman's influence to deal with Karak Hirn about widening the winter teeth pass into a fortified road to create a new trade road that will benefit both of us and allow us to be able to go and have a colony. she will be close enough to be able to receive information and send troops if necessary.
For those who will say that it is too far away at the moment impervious to send troops there I remind you that we sent our army to the other side of the Empire which is much further away with much more logistical problems than the border princes using the winter teeth pass.
For those who will say that it is too far away at the moment impervious to send troops there I remind you that we sent our army to the other side of the Empire which is much further away with much more logistical problems than the border princes using the winter teeth pass.
I've been through this too: arguing for your own plan while the vote is going against you and no one is answering.
So I want to at least answer why I can't support your plan:
1. The Combined Hierarchs
That only makes sense if we're in the Ottilian Empress's camp. (Which doesn't work with the other decisions in the plan)
I read another explanation that it is supposed to make it more likely that Verena's high priesthood will also get a seat.
In my opinion it won't work like that.
We are voting for it without an agreement; if the Ottilian Empress is to support us in the Verena case, she will only do so in return for our promise of support in the election, if she wants to win.
The only way we should vote for it is if our faith also gets a seat at the same time.
2. Liesel von Eigenhof
I think it's okay if you're for the secessionists, but then you also have to pursue their goals. (problem with 3.)
The secessionists are already winning in our internal politics, this would probably seal it.
I would rather be neutral right now, we should maintain that we accept an emperor if only one wins the election.
This will probably be a problem not only in diplomacy with imperial factions.
3. The Tri-fold Partition
Independence or own candidate - these are the goals of the secessionists.
Long-term independence would go from very difficult to impossible.
The land grab would make it even less likely that a United Empire would leave us alone, and the new border would be much harder to defend.
Own candidate
We would have to restore Stirland to get the vote, which we would probably have to do to win.
That would cause problems with Averland and we would probably have spent years suppressing unrest and building up a foreign province only to lose it all again.
Don't underestimate the difference between indirect control and Vlad's direct control over Stirland.
If it doesn't take us decades to free it, there could be a lot more left of the province than if the vampires turn out the lights and nobody knows what's going on.
We can also diplomatically denounce him if he is the only one to take land, but we will only legitimize him if we go along with it, it was one of his suggestions.
4.Minor Point Pledge to Invest
I think Increase the Stipend is better.
- Location
- Germany
Doesn't matter.
The Cults deserve a vote, because they are the next-biggest cults, but in fact the vote for Emperor only matters to show who is on what candidate's side, there's no realistic chance of an Emperor coming out of it.
The Cult of Taal and Rhya is based in Talabecland and obviously on the Ottilian's side, formalising that makes no notable difference to me.
She seems like the most competent candidate.
But yeah, in the long term I'm in favor of secession, though I don't think making it official would help us.
My personal favorite would be independence, but not in some Brexit-style unclear break, but with well-negotiated plans on trade and alliance.
Specifically, make a strong and close alliance with Averland, our natural partner in defending the mountains from anything trying to get into the Empire-territory, and a looser alliance with the other provinces against threats that might roll up all of the Empire's territory.
[X] Plan: The Division of Stirland
Is the diplomatic denunciation even going to do anything, Vlad is going to get Stirland no qn about if not directly then through a pasty, the only thing we can control is how much of Stirland he gets, and if we go for tri partition we can put Averland between us and the part of Sylvania that Vlad gets
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[X] Plan Wissenland Wakes
- Location
- Over the next hill.
1st point I agree with you, at least if it was just those two in a vacuum. Devoted action dice specifically to send an expedition out with the trials + contacting the Arch-lector of Stirland for security and legitimacy of the operation. Speak softly and carry a big stick and all. Averland directly has cause to march if Vlad moves his troops in response because of the Anti-Sylvanian Pact. My reading at least of the Tri-Partition is that they don't move without proof that the heir is unviable and the Haupt-Anderssens are rotten to the core. Then that just leaves us to fight Vlad.
See what I'm worried about is that even after we march on Stirland to fulfill the Tri-Partition, nothing's going to stop Vlad from acting anyways. He could easily just move to kick to us out. In the eyes of the wider Empire, what we justified as an intervention for the protection of Stirland turns out to be a power play on our part. And Vlad looks all the better for it.
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- Location
- Someplace USA
Basically the issue is Vlad still has a big shoe to drop and we can't really do shit about it because it's a complete mystery in universe.
I don't really know what plan to pick other then I'm really really really hesitant to push for desolving an electoral province causes that's BIG. Same with how ambivilant I am for giving a church a vote.
I don't really know what plan to pick other then I'm really really really hesitant to push for desolving an electoral province causes that's BIG. Same with how ambivilant I am for giving a church a vote.
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- Location
- Over the next hill.
IIRC he's already off schedule according to canon. Last year he should have killed all the remaining mortal nobility in Sylvania and summoned his army of undead. Might have to do with Mordheim blowing up later.
My reasoning for denying the vote is because we haven't decided on the secessionist issue. If we are seceding, breaking the balance of the Electors by giving them a 5th vote will just unify the Empire sooner. If we're going for the radical secessionist position and Imperial candidate, we'll be getting a rival more influence. If we're sticking with the Empire, we'll have to unite with the Ottillian Empress to protect from the other electors. Lastly, a more definitive elector situation might push Vlad to go full vampire.
[] Plan Wissenland Wakes w/ Combined Hierarchs
-[] Appoint an Ambassador-At-Large: Mariele Althaus
-[] Our Own Trials
-[] The Combined Hierarchs
-[] The Congregation of the Stirland
-[] Increase the Stipend
-[] The Auditor
-[] Agree to Both
--[] Note that the Tax exemption is only applicable to Bugmans own deliveries and that the wording of the agreement must prevent unscrupulous merchants from using it for tax evasion.
-[] The Anti-Sylvanian Pact
--[] Roadwarden South Cost: - 0/150 Cost: 600 Marks, 200 Materials, 500 Food per Die. 2 Actions
--[] The Nuln Ironsides: - 0/208 Cost: 208 Marks, 416 Materials, 208 Food per Die. 1 Action
--[] Launch an Expedition: Stirland Cost: 16,900 Marks, 15,000 Food and 8,400 Materials 1 Action
--[]Riverine Docks City of Nuln - 231/300 Cost: 1,000 Marks and 200 Materials per Die. 1 Action
--[] Investigate Threat (Serial Killer) 300 Marks per Die. 3 Actions
--[] Develop Gypsum Fertiliser Cost: 1,000 Marks, 200 Food and 20 Materials per Die Must Beat: 150. 3 Actions
Edit: You can always take your most closely preferred plan and just replace what items you want. There's enough time over the weekend and extended vote to get it traction.
At risk of splitting my vote and in case theres enough interest in giving a vote to the cult of Taal and Rhya, here's an alternate plan.
My reasoning for denying the vote is because we haven't decided on the secessionist issue. If we are seceding, breaking the balance of the Electors by giving them a 5th vote will just unify the Empire sooner. If we're going for the radical secessionist position and Imperial candidate, we'll be getting a rival more influence. If we're sticking with the Empire, we'll have to unite with the Ottillian Empress to protect from the other electors. Lastly, a more definitive elector situation might push Vlad to go full vampire.
[] Plan Wissenland Wakes w/ Combined Hierarchs
-[] Appoint an Ambassador-At-Large: Mariele Althaus
-[] Our Own Trials
-[] The Combined Hierarchs
-[] The Congregation of the Stirland
-[] Increase the Stipend
-[] The Auditor
-[] Agree to Both
--[] Note that the Tax exemption is only applicable to Bugmans own deliveries and that the wording of the agreement must prevent unscrupulous merchants from using it for tax evasion.
-[] The Anti-Sylvanian Pact
--[] Roadwarden South Cost: - 0/150 Cost: 600 Marks, 200 Materials, 500 Food per Die. 2 Actions
--[] The Nuln Ironsides: - 0/208 Cost: 208 Marks, 416 Materials, 208 Food per Die. 1 Action
--[] Launch an Expedition: Stirland Cost: 16,900 Marks, 15,000 Food and 8,400 Materials 1 Action
--[]Riverine Docks City of Nuln - 231/300 Cost: 1,000 Marks and 200 Materials per Die. 1 Action
--[] Investigate Threat (Serial Killer) 300 Marks per Die. 3 Actions
--[] Develop Gypsum Fertiliser Cost: 1,000 Marks, 200 Food and 20 Materials per Die Must Beat: 150. 3 Actions
Edit: You can always take your most closely preferred plan and just replace what items you want. There's enough time over the weekend and extended vote to get it traction.
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- Location
- Someplace USA
Frankly funniest option is Vlad going nuclear and becoming such a threat we can Magnus the Pious the empire and unite it. But I really don't think that be how this goes as.
- Location
- Centro Italia
Vampire Wars
As you can see from the link sent in all three vampire wars, only in the second were we attacked. So if you don't give Vlad a reason to attack us, he won't attack us. So we have all the time in the world to become independent and above all to fortify ourselves and expand elsewhere. for we would have seven years to strengthen and fortify ourselves, after which the second will begin and Konrad will come to Wissenland for massacres and to recruit blood knights.
As you can see from the link sent in all three vampire wars, only in the second were we attacked. So if you don't give Vlad a reason to attack us, he won't attack us. So we have all the time in the world to become independent and above all to fortify ourselves and expand elsewhere. for we would have seven years to strengthen and fortify ourselves, after which the second will begin and Konrad will come to Wissenland for massacres and to recruit blood knights.
- Location
- Germany
Canon has already changed though.
Vlad could attack in totally different directions.
He might even try a mortal run, taking on the Reikland Emperor together with the Wolf Emperor, if he gets enough mundane manpower.
Or he could start his undead rampage by securing the southern Empire, instead of ineffectivly ravaging (but not really conquering) most of the north, as it seems to have happened in the original timeline.
- Location
- Centro Italia
if the canon has changed, we can also attempt independence; Since we haven't given Vlad a reason to attack us and him, he should attack Mootland and Averland first, which would give us plenty of time to prepare a defense and counterattack. plus, if he did it would unite the other candidates against him seeing the threat he poses. furthermore, it was the warp stone that allowed him to fuel a book of Nagash to raise his undead army. if he hasn't done it yet, it means he doesn't have enough to fuel the book. therefore he will still play at being Machiavellian by weakening all the competitors for the imperial title.
Why would we want be independent for exactly ?
- Location
- Centro Italia
And why wouldn't we want that? It's an interesting choice to make, instead of remaining tied to the empire as a footnote.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Basically, the Empire is in shambles and 3 Emperor-candidates don't help. Wisseland has a strong enough foundation to stay independent but we need allies for it to be really worth it. This means we need to get allies even before ever thinking about independence.
I still believe that the Tri-Fold Partition is a better option if we want to stall Vlad from escalating. The seccesionists are not near enough of a threat for me to consider them relevant here. Even the Ranaldians are above them in my opinion. So we split Stirland, take what we can, divide with Averland, hand over what little Vlad can have so he loses some legitimacy on his casus-belli and we use the time to set up any network we can to uncover his secrets and unify the Empire against him.