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The Old World: Dark Age of the Empire

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One way of dealing with the secessionists is to simply become an Imperial Candidate ourselves, just tossing it out there.

Also half of me thinks sending out a large part of the army off to the other end of our province/country is not a good idea at this point in time. We need said army to move into Stirland if it calls for it after all.

The other half wants to jump onto some neat, readily available clay. Who knows Vlad might just back off especially with the Anti-Sylvanian pact we're planning to build with Averland. We're not sending the entirety of our professional military on a jaunt to the Border Princes; presumably, so we should have a fair amount to draw upon.
 
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[X] Plan Wissenland Wakes
-[X] Appoint an Ambassador-At-Large: Mariele Althaus
-[X] Our Own Trials
-[X] A Vote Denied
-[X] The Congregation of the Stirland
-[X] Increase the Stipend
-[X] The Auditor
-[X] Agree to Both
--[X] Note that the Tax exemption is only applicable to Bugmans own deliveries and that the wording of the agreement must prevent unscrupulous merchants from using it for tax evasion.
-[X] The Anti-Sylvanian Pact
--[X] Roadwarden South Cost: - 0/150 Cost: 600 Marks, 200 Materials, 500 Food per Die. 2 Actions
--[X] The Nuln Ironsides: - 0/208 Cost: 208 Marks, 416 Materials, 208 Food per Die. 1 Action
--[X] Launch an Expedition: Stirland Cost: 16,900 Marks, 15,000 Food and 8,400 Materials 1 Action
--[X]Riverine Docks City of Nuln - 231/300 Cost: 1,000 Marks and 200 Materials per Die. 1 Action
--[X] Investigate Threat (Serial Killer) 300 Marks per Die. 3 Actions
--[X] Develop Gypsum Fertiliser Cost: 1,000 Marks, 200 Food and 20 Materials per Die Must Beat: 150. 3 Actions

Total : 23208 Marks, 9476 Materials, 16408 Food

Thought I'd put my own plan into the ring. 1st one for this quest.

I think it's fair to say our lacking position on the secessionists has been an oversight on our part. Either we hitch ourselves to the Ottillian Empress or create our own faction with Averland. Owing to geographical constraints, I'm unsure about the first option. If Vlad ever decides to spring his Vampire Wars, aid from them will not be forthcoming. Maybe it's time we start considering becoming an Imperial Candidate, but as the discussion hasn't settled on what our position is my plan sticks to just denying Vlad as much as possible.

My plan combines conducting our own trials with the congregation of Stirland, for max legitimacy of the operation. So we don't get caught flatfooted by Vlad, we send our delegation out with the army as well as getting Averland to intercept if Vlad tries anything while we're waiting for that to resolve.

As for the rest of the plan, we finish the docks at Nuln. Find out what that serial killer is. Take advantage of Nuln's advantage as the most esteemed city of learning in the Empire and get that gypsum fertilizer for better farming income, as well as improving our replenishment of the Iron Companies with the Roadwardens and recruiting for the Ironsides.

Going for Mariel von Althaus from the Bank of Nuln for our diplo advisor as the safe choice. She's got some experience as a banker negotiating agreements as well as her contacts abroad in the Bank. She'll also help us make money, which is always important. Could have gone with Eigenhof but I wasn't sure if we were finally solidifying our position on secession or Imperial Candidacy. As we haven't also decided if we're hitching ourselves to the Ottillian Empress, we need to deny the vote. It would imbalance the candidates now and all the other candidates won't like us for it. Agreeing to both amendments with conditions for max approval from Bugman (credit goes to @Depio for the write in) and finally that Sigmarite Auditor to tie the Sigmarites closer to us. If we're going for Imperial Candidate it would be wise to befriend the Sigmarites as the largest population of devotees in the Empire.
 
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[X] Plan: The Division of Stirland
-[X] Appoint an Ambassador-At-Large: Liesel von Eigenhof
-[X] The Tri-fold Partition
-[X] In Our Hands
-[X] The Combined Hierarchs
-[X] Refrain from Overexpansion
-[X] Pledge to Invest
-[X] The Verenans
-[X] Agree to the Dwarf Amendment
-[X] Action-Plan:
--[X] Family Matters 1 Action 200 Marks
--[X] Restore the Ranks (Nuln Ironsides) 1 Action 208 Marks, 416 Materials, 208 Food
--[X] Launch an Expedition (Secure Stirland) 1 Action 16,900 Marks, 15,000 Food and 8,400 Materials
--[X] Riverine Docks (City of Nuln) 1 Action 1,000 Marks and 200 Materials
--[X] Expand Farms (Wusterburg) 1 Action 2,000 Marks and 400 Materials
--[X] Investigate Threat (Serial Killer) 3 Actions 300 Marks
--[X] Develop Gypsum Fertiliser 3 Actions 3,000 Marks, 600 Food and 60 Materials
 
Fortebraccio said:
The Empire Through the Ages

as you can see in the link, the empire acquired but lost various provinces throughout its history.
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Yes, but only one of them due to internal struggles. Drakwald had its ruling dynasty killed and the province greatly weakened by Beastmen, Solland and Border Princes were done in by Ork WAAGH!s, Sylvania rebelled under the Vampire Counts and was never reclaimed while Marienburg outright seceded because it saw being part of the Empire as unprofitable.
 
[X] Plan Wissenland Wakes

I have decided to vote, I think the decision is too important not to.
The plan is good and I can understand the arguments.
I think the heir will pass the test and Vlad will then indirectly control the province.
But I think that's the best option. There's no chance that Vlad can openly act as a vampire in Stirland and the province will be defeated militarily.
In my opinion the Vampire Wars are close, I don't think Vlad and the Wolf Emperor can defeat the Ottilian Empress with a normal military and she is relatively close to winning.
By then we should have formed an alliance with Averland and can then do something about Stirland.
That's a better reason for expansion in my opinion.
I know that this is relying on Vlad not overreacting when we test the heir and accepting indirect control, but I think there's a good chance that we'll get through this crisis relatively unscathed and that the vampire wars won't begin until the next crisis and hopefully not immediately against us or Averland.
 
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While I'm not interested in pursuing an expedition into the Border Princes this turn, you know what just occurred to me that we can do in the future? Partnering with the dwarfs of Karak Hirn, Karak Izor and Barak Varr to connect the River of Echoes and the Soll River with the Yetzin river in the Border Princes through the WInter's Teeth Pass.

The Area in Question

Sort of attempted before in the Twin Holds quest, though never finished before the quest stopped. It would allow Barak Varr access to the markets of the Empire, cut down on a ton of travel time, as well as giving us sea access that isn't controlled by Marienburg if we can secure that river network (or get Barak Varr to do it for us).

Might not even take ridiculously long if we get enough dwarf holds to contribute. It would really benefit them too by giving them a safe route to travel that isn't the infested underways or overland.
 
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Okay, here's my reason why I think the threefold partition of Stirland is the best plan.

There is no risk of Vlad escalating against us, since we are fighting together.
If we pick the anti-Sylvania pact and then march into Stirland, there is a risk of serious escalation, that we won't win.


But that's mostly OOC worry about the Vampire who took on the entire Empire and didn't exactly loose.

IC, I believe that taking Stirland in three parts is a very strong basis for an alliance with Averland and potentially Sylvania.
Right now we know that Vlad is an ambitious Elector Count who has a strong alliance with the Wolf Emperor and is interested in expanding his reach.

IC, we don't want to look like a potential victim to him, so allying with Averland and acting on our own is vital. We limit his landgrab, but we don't block it, while also strengthening ourselves and an ally.
At the same time we don't directly oppose him, mark ourselves as an enemy.

There won't be a strong reaction from the rest of the Empire to this, Middenland supports the move, Reikland seems unwilling to act, the others barely care.
So taking juicy lands with actual people and income, giving some more of those to potential ally Averland and leaving Silvania with only a third of it, instead of all by controlling the heir, is our best play here.
 
We have a fair chance I think if it's just his state troops. Pulling the vampire card right now would be an immediate win for him, but a grave miscalculation on his part. Suddenly he has a huge target on his back that I don't think he wants right now as he's still playing the game of Imperial politics.

I picked Anti-Sylvanian pact for my plan not because the Tri-fold Partition isn't great if we get it but mostly because of the wording. Without a solid foundation for proving all of the Haupt-Anderssens illegitimate the Averlanders have no reason to march. It's a good peace deal but I think it introduces a lot of moving parts that need to be resolved.

Actually, wait I just realized I know what he probably wants. It's not necessarily Stirland the province itself. Sylvania definitely has enough bodies for his skelly army, it's the extra vote from the Stirland elector, as well as better access into the center of the Empire.

With a Stirland elector in his camp that gives him one more elector he wants for the candidacy. Taking Stirland also allows him to strike much farther into the Empire without having to ask for access from other electors. He can push for Reikland and Talabecland on his new border if he gets the whole province, and take a much larger border with the River Aver to strike into Averland.

Gabriel_TFA said:
I at least hope we get Mootland. Or at least the area near it but that is doubtful.
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Averland is most likely to want that since it lies on the Aver. Makes for a more defensible front for them.

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If he takes the whole of Stirland he can march straight into Reikland while it's diplomatically isolated and it's army wrecked from the Carroburg siege. He can also march on us, that makes the whole Flensburg deal sort of useless.
 
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The Moot has been a separate province for near a 1000 years, as far as I can find.
So no, we probably ain't taking that.

Nobody sane would believe Chaos-allegations against halflings.
 
Well sucks to be Stirland... The Elector bought this to this to himself... and now I'm reminded of Tarriff's Stirland jokes... The worse place in the Empire, if not the WORLD. Anyway, I need another clarification, @Warkeymon. Given the shattered state of the Empire, is there any actual point in the electorial count system? IC, it took the great disasters of the Vampiric Wars combined with the Great War Against Chaos to make the people unite back to a single confederation/"empire".

Even if Vlad manages to acquire Stirland Vote, what he'll do with it? I can only think of nothing in the nearby long-term. Unless of course Vlad is thinking 4D chess / extreme long-term ala "I'm a vampire, I'll live forever you mere mortals" plan to finally use the stirland vote (and middenland if I read correctly) into a powergrab...

If that's the case... Tri-Fold Partion really is the best plan.
 
To be honest now that I think about it, Vlad probably just wants to be able to move his troops into more parts of the Empire. Stirland is pretty key for that.

The extra vote is a plus for him, but he'd need to secure more through war or diplomacy to get a chance of being Emperor legitimately. I do think he does still think he can gain the imperial throne without springing the chaos of the Vampire Wars at this point, but we don't definitely know.

We don't exactly know how long a term he's planning but him supporting Middenland and us stopping our support of Reikland makes our part of the Empire a very juicy target for him. The Ottillian Empress has too large a following to undermine at this stage. Stirland gets him access to much weaker targets , Reikland for one. We would be a harder one but still easier than going north. It's why whatever happens next turn we'll know his measure a bit more.
 
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In that case is the Serial Killer incident REALLY the most important thing for us to look into it? Even the Ranaldians are irrelevant given this giant threat of Vlad at our neighbor. Come one, people, espionage! Switch the three dices into creating a network into Sylvanya ASAP.
 
Simply the land and people of Stirland also matter, more than you might think.

Sure, he has enough Skellies in Sylvania, but mortal troops are generally more valuable than lesser undead.
And even besides that, the stronger he is in conventional forces, the longer he can play the game as a regular Elector, without taking the mask off.

Just our few cannons already enabled him to play a different, and I'd say better, game than in the original timeline.
 
HeWhoIsAshamed said:
Well sucks to be Stirland... The Elector bought this to this to himself... and now I'm reminded of Tarriff's Stirland jokes... The worse place in the Empire, if not the WORLD. Anyway, I need another clarification, @Warkeymon. Given the shattered state of the Empire, is there any actual point in the electorial count system? IC, it took the great disasters of the Vampiric Wars combined with the Great War Against Chaos to make the people unite back to a single confederation/"empire".

Even if Vlad manages to acquire Stirland Vote, what he'll do with it? I can only think of nothing in the nearby long-term. Unless of course Vlad is thinking 4D chess / extreme long-term ala "I'm a vampire, I'll live forever you mere mortals" plan to finally use the stirland vote (and middenland if I read correctly) into a powergrab...

If that's the case... Tri-Fold Partion really is the best plan.
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The electoral system is mostly used as a diplomatic bargaining chip. The last election in the 1970s showed that elections can still be major political events with huge aftermaths even without securing a single emperor afterwards. Without the last election the Sigmarite faction would encompass Reikland, Wissenland, Stirland and Averland and Vlad's recent actions would've been much different.
 
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