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The Old World: Dark Age of the Empire

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Artemis1992 said:
Say some canny dwarven merchant gets a barrel of Bugman's XXXXX in a few decades.
He divides it into a dozen flagons.
He sells those, or keeps them on his own ships, if he has multiple ones, not further selling but just keeping one in the ship's cabin.
And now you have a dozen dwarves merchant-barges who can trade freely without tariffs in Wissenland.
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You keep talking like the XXXXX is something that's produced in enough quantities that some random merchant is going to get his hands on them when this stuff is rare enough for Kings and Electors. Or even that Bugman's going to tolerate a stranger abusing his life's work to avoid paying taxes.
 
If someone tried to use Bugman's XXXXX for "petty tax-avoidance", then they would almost certainly get "Capital-G Grudge" on their heads
 
Yeah full approval on the Dwarf Amendment bit. Maybe clarify that the tax and tariff exemption apply only to a sealed barrel of Bugman's XXXXX, and only on dwarf ships; along with documentation of them being ordered/bought/gifted to someone.

No reason why Taal and Rhya shouldn't have an Electoral Vote. Sure, it will make the Otillians more powerful but hey if we want the priesthood of Verena to become Electors in the future, might as well start now with an already established god and goddess.

For Ambassador, Liesel von Eigenhof seems the best bet, seems competent and assertive enough. If giving the Eigenhof family two seats on the council is too much, we could promote someone on merit, and raise someone up from the lower ranks.

Honestly don't know what to do in the case of Averland and Stirland. We certainly can't just let Vlad nab Stirland for himself or even just place a thrall on the Stirlander throne(?). Choosing Our Own Trials is pretty risky, we'll be seen as suckers if Vlad does decide to seize Stirland for himself. Acceding to nab Flensburg via an agreement with Vlad just rubs me the wrong way.
 
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[ ] The Tri-fold Partition
[ ] Our Own Trials
[ ] The Congregation of the Stirland

We can't nab Stirland without looking like opportunists with a seemingly viable heir in play. We need to involve more parties in this for max diplo damage to Vlad. If he marches on Stirland first that's a complete power play on his part which is why I think he hasn't jumped the gun already. We stall him and hope he gets impatient. If we uncover that the heir is a vampire thrall or any other sort of fuckery that's even better.

The real boon here though is getting Averland involved. They're too important strategically to us to play the role of quiet elector. Between Blackfire Pass and having the largest contiguous border with Stirland and Sylvania, we need to tie them closely in our sphere. That improves our defenses and gives Vlad a lack of hard targets in the future to land grab. If we had caught Vlad earlier we could have done this with Stirland but that ship has sort of sailed and we need to plan for the longer term now.

In terms of actions this turn, we should really take the Roadwardens action as well as one of the developments for our cannon and firearms. The stronger our Iron Companies are the harder a target we become for Vlad and we can focus on supplying his enemies.
 
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Honestly, as power-scalers would put it, "I'm bloodlusted" and just want both Stirland & Cult of Slaanesh within it, completely gone.

Any plan that doesn't involve Vlad getting whole province, is completely acceptable to me, and I will vote for it
 
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If the vote for the Cult of Taal and Rhya passed (which is likely as per the news) and we are among those that voted against it then not only did we not gain anything but we also start on the backfoot against this Cult as well as the Otillan faction. Also sidenote, the Taal/Rhya cult has amazing blessings in the tabletop and rpgs.
 
Okay, that three-part Stirland doesn't look too bad.

Looking at the map, we could get the area around Flensburg and Blutdorf, maybe even up to Wurtbad.
Good fertile land, though unfortunately with a big forest we'd then have to keep in check.

Sylvania could get a big slice, north of the Moot and then to our borders.
Technically the biggest piece, but with a lot of hills and forests and generally unsettled and thus probably bad land

Averland could get the southern slice up to the Aver Reach river, or up to Leichenberg.
Small, but likely the best land, guessing from the amount of villages and towns in the small area, and the nearness of the Moot.

With a shared Wurtbad, Berlin-style?

Regardless of the details, generally speaking we would want West Stirland, Averland South Stirland and Sylvania Central Stirland.

(East Stirland is currently called Sylvania, since this is before the wars and the official dissolution of that province. Would be ironic if central Stirland became known as West Silvania in this timeline.)
 
Adrian XXIV said:
This would be "bad land" for living humans, not for undead (especially those lead by ancient vampire, like Vashanesh)
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Maybe for a Strigoi living in the forest with a bunch of Ghouls.

Von Carstein has mortal subjects that he treats decently, he has active trade with other provinces (and maybe Zhufbar?), he is so far using mortal state troops that he needs to equip and pay.

Good lands for mortals are better for him than bad lands for mortals, though he could still get some use of the bad lands.
 
All land is good land for Vlad because people live on land and whether they're dead or living he can use to further his goals.

It's why he's actually nerfing himself right now, as he's bothering to get stuck into the quagmire of human politics.
 
uh @Warkeymon cults only got votes after Magnus reunified the Empire:

From the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2nd Edition: Tome of Salvation: The first time in almost a thousand years, the leaders of all the Great Provinces gathered in one place to elect an Emperor, and it was they chose Magnus to lead them. Not all the nobles liked it, but they had little choice. They would have been lynched if they had refused Magnus. He was loved like no other— and this was something that Emperor Magnus of Nuln used to great effect when he implemented his many reforms. In particular, two of his many decrees directly affected the cults.
 
Binge-Reader said:
uh @Warkeymon cults only got votes after Magnus reunified the Empire:

From the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2nd Edition: Tome of Salvation: The first time in almost a thousand years, the leaders of all the Great Provinces gathered in one place to elect an Emperor, and it was they chose Magnus to lead them. Not all the nobles liked it, but they had little choice. They would have been lynched if they had refused Magnus. He was loved like no other— and this was something that Emperor Magnus of Nuln used to great effect when he implemented his many reforms. In particular, two of his many decrees directly affected the cults.
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By the time of Magnus there hadn't been a coherent election in over three centuries and hadn't been a singular Emperor in a thousand. At that time he overhauled the election to give the Arch-Lector of Nuln and the Arch-Lector of Talabheim votes bringing the Cult of Sigmar up to 3 including the Grand Theogonist and confirmed the Ar-Ulric. He then also offered a vote to the Taalites but that got turned down.

The Cults did have votes prior to Magnus, the Ar-Ulric supported the first Ottillian Empress in protest against the Grand Theogonist having a vote but the Ar-Ulric not having one. This has since changed, the Ar-Ulric played Middenland and Talabecland against one another to get a vote.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Not water it down?

Pour it into smaller vessels and then just carry it with them, rather than sell it.

Say some canny dwarven merchant gets a barrel of Bugman's XXXXX in a few decades.
He divides it into a dozen flagons.
He sells those, or keeps them on his own ships, if he has multiple ones, not further selling but just keeping one in the ship's cabin.
And now you have a dozen dwarves merchant-barges who can trade freely without tariffs in Wissenland.
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Why not have the brew only be stored in special containers that clearly mark it as Bugman's XXXXX for us to identify. To prevent counter fitting barrels, make it so that the containers are made of something expensive or hard to replicate. Like a Gromril seal, or a special rune carved into the barrel that serves as an identifier and possibly helps preserve the brew.
 
I think I know what's Bugman's "agenda":

He wants Thunderbarges carrying "Bugman's XXXXX" to count as "Diplomatic Envoys", due to its importance and rarity
 
How about an easy compromise on Bugman XXXXX? We won't exempt an entire barge from taxes, but we could apply a specifically SMALL tax to those casks specifically, with any other items on the barge taxed as normal. It isn't what he wants, but it is still preferential treatment in acknowledgment of his ability.
 
Adrian XXIV said:
I think I know what's Bugman's "agenda":

He wants Thunderbarges carrying "Bugman's XXXXX" to count as "Diplomatic Envoys", due to its importance and rarity
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Wait those exist at this time, I thought they were invented more later on by Malakai Makaisson, also why does Bugman want the Thunderbarges to be considered "Diplomatic Envoys"? Is come home legally even though he's in exile or something?

Edit: Oh wait it was a joke, sry took it too seriously lol.
 
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In the Bugman case, I would be on the side of no tax break and definitely law amendment.
The relationship is already +100 and the amendment is logical, but this is not a negotiation, we get nothing in return, the tax relief is just a gift.

But that wasn't actually the reason for me to write, I'm more of a reader of this quest right now:
Don't you think that the secessionists are a problem in the long run?
Sure, they are loyal because the circumstances suit them, but in my opinion humanity cannot survive without a united empire.
Whenever that happens they will demand reintegration, then we will have an external war against the unified empire or a provincial civil war.
This update in particular is worrying when the secessionists join forces with our pacified Sollanders.

The least we can do right now is not appoint one of them as Ambassador-At-Large.
That could cause a real problem if she ever speaks her mind to an Imperial faction.
The timeline has already changed we cannot be sure that the Empire will remain divided as long as in the lore.

I would prefer the banker Mariele Althaus.
She has contacts and seems to be an experienced negotiator.
 
Why don't we give a tax reduction on the rest of the goods in barges then a full waiver on Bugman's XXXXX? Increase dwarfen trade through tax breaks. They're already coming for the Bugman's, might as well buy more stuff since it's cheaper.

Theoretically it's a short term loss on profit, but in the long term as dwarfs realize that they can get cheaper goods and sell their wares for better prices more dwarfs will come to Wissenland for trade. Maybe it would work but at the very least it's more along the letter of his request while helping us out too.

And hey, if we keep supporting Bugman and he ramps up production of Bugman's from incredibly rare to slightly less rare, that might just pay itself off even better.
 
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"Problem" is that Bugman's XXXXX isn't a trade good, it's "Bugman Clan considers you important friend and ally" message

Even then, it's only one barrel per person/faction

Also, it's only carried by Thunderbarges, which (most probably) are of similar rarity as Steam Tanks in Empire (disregarding fact that Steam Tanks aren't even invented yet, timeline-wise)
 
You know, having caught up with this quest and hearing all the discussion about Vlad's shenanigans, I realise something... we don't have any external information network other than the rumor mill rolling down from the Wissenland Gazette and maybe whatever snippets that the Iron Tower hands over whenever they seem fit.

Its remarkable. After that whole mess with Nuln shutting down Vlad's sabaours, I thought you guys would expand outwards, at least to keep an eyes on Sylvania and maybe fish out potential intel, sabotage options and bring his undead secrets to the light. Instead, you are all being passive and reactive.

The issue I'm seeing here feels the same as that other quest of the Warhammer Advisor with the Grey Wizard, where the players kept focused on the internal affairs only, to the point of ASKING the Elector Count of Stirland if they could investigate and spread a espionage network abroad only to be told that they should have done this long ago.

So yeah... May we should alternate the dices between Stewardship and Intrigue a little more. Do one of the 50 to 100 DC checks a turn, then focus the next on poking and prodding around border provinces, starting with Sirtland (or Sylvania) given the current situation, then expand our eyes and ears everywhere. We need spies in Reikland and Middenland as well since they are in opposition to us. We need routes for sabotage as soon as possible. In canon, Vlad had to lose his ring to a bloody thief that the Grand Theogonist, of all people, recruited to do the deed and make the vampire bastard vulnerable.

Ranald saved the Empire that day. They are dangerous but useful assets.

That said, @Warkeymon, about the Crusades Against Araby, shouldn't there be an chapter of the Knights of the Blazing Sun somewhere in the Empire? If so, could we request a diplo action to try recruit them for our cause, or open a way into our province?
 
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Warkeymon said:
[ ] For Flensburg
Agree to invade Stirland from the west in exchange for the loyalty of the County of Flensburg and raise the Heir to the position of Elector.

[ ] Our Own Trials
Invite the Heir to Nuln to be tested. It will delay the replacement, and if Von Carstein jumps the gun you might not have the chance to earn Flensburg.

[ ] In Good Hands
The Grand Count of Sylvania is already in position to leap to battle. You're not entirely sure how much he's getting out of this affair, besides the Sylvanian betrothal, but you're sure he and the Heir will handle matters.

[ ] In Our Hands
March the Iron Companies down the Nuln Road into the Stirland and seize as much of the Province as you can. Stirland is clearly a failed Province and should be incorporated into Wissenland in a simialr fashion to the Sudenland.
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@Warkeymon
This vote feels a bit weird in combination with the Threfold Partition in the vote above it.

If I want Threefold Partition, is "In our Hands" the only viable option here, or are there other possible combinations?
 
HeWhoIsAshamed said:
That said, @@Warkeymon, about the Crusades Against Araby, shouldn't there be an chapter of the Knights of the Blazing Sun somewhere in the Empire? If so, could we request a diplo action to try recruit them for our cause, or open a way into our province?
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From what I remember from SFO Karl Franz Let's Play that I watched shortly ago, KotBS worship Myrmidia and their "main base" is in Talabecland.

If this true, then "securing their services" would almost certainly require allying with Ottilian Empress
 
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