Finding the Spark (Pathfinder 1E Quest)

If we try to make this too complicated, like pretending to be from Galt when we sound nothing like a native and know even less about the place, he will probably figure out something is wrong.
Well, probably, but your write-in still seems to give wrong vibes. I see our tasks in such order:

1) Persuade Ergriso that we are not Devils - urgently! He thinks that we are and already started a combat. I am not sure that this is even possible, but, well, can try.
2) Weave enaugh lies to make it Bluff, not Diplomacy.
3) Tell that we are here to help him - it semms that "nobody helps" bothers him very much.

No, no, you don't understand!
It is curious with whom does he speak... Let's hope that with his imagination.
 
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Well, probably, but your write-in still seems to give wrong vibes. I see our tasks in such order:

1) Persuade Ergriso that we are not Devils - urgently! He thinks that we are and already started a combat. I am not sure that this is even possible, but, well, can try.
2) Weave enaugh lies to make it Bluff, not Diplomacy.
3) Tell that we are here to help him - it semms that "nobody helps" bothers him very much.


It is curious with whom does he speak... Let's hope that with his imagination.
He only started combat as part of escaping his tomb. That doesn't mean he deliberately targeted us, it was probably more of a reflexive action.

We can only talk so much as part of a Free Action, and the more we try to lie, the more likely we are to screw up and get caught. I've changed the wording of my plan slightly, to remove direct mentions of his death, alluding instead to his disappearance and imprisonment.
 
Ahem.
"As soon as we break it the spirit will attempt to depart its tomb, most likely through the door from reflex and recollection of its old life."
Even if we bluff him, he would still try to leave the tomb. I can't imagine him just sitting there for the rest of his days.

So we'll have to put him out of his misery somehow. and I'd rather not waste the free round.
 
Ahem.

Even if we bluff him, he would still try to leave the tomb. I can't imagine him just sitting there for the rest of his days.

So we'll have to put him out of his misery somehow. and I'd rather not waste the free round.

Ideally the way you deal with one of the spectral undead is to find whatever it is that binds them to the world and undo it, whether that means getting justice, persuading them to let go of loved ones or overcoming fear of moving on. That said some of them lack the focus for coherent communication or any desire to ever let go. For those the solution is just to blast them and let the Psychopomps sort them out, that is literally one third of their job, alongside making sure no one fundamentally alters the laws of life and death and keeping the soul predators in the River in check.

This has been brought to you by bargain-basic Pharasman theology, Kori did not spend that long listening to stories about gods he does not worship.
 
There is an old saying where I come from that basically goes "Always say yes to the crazy ones"

Can we simply go "Yes! He knows! Nobody would believe us but he will!" Or some bullshit like that? It is not like we need to provide context or anything, poor soul is irrational as it is.
 
That said some of them lack the focus for coherent communication or any desire to ever let go. For those the solution is just to blast them and let the Psychopomps sort them out
My question is, if we put him back in the grave, can we still speak to Egriso and ask him what questions we need answered? Will it be the same spirit? Something saner?

1) Persuade Ergriso that we are not Devils - urgently! He thinks that we are and already started a combat. I am not sure that this is even possible, but, well, can try.
We have a Devil's Bane dagger? Not the tool of devils, certainly, though he'd have to have some means of recognizing that.
 
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Speak with dead speaks with the body, not the spirit. We can kill off the spirit if we want to simply continue the mission
 
Plan updated.

I've decided to lean into what we overheard of his ramblings, then hopefully convince him that we're here to bring his killers to justice. If it works, that might be enough to allow him to pass on.

If we can get the Bluff bonus up to +26 like I mentioned earlier, that's a lot of convincing bullshit.

[X] Lying for fun and profit. And survival.
-[X] Quietly, but urgently, Kori whispers for Ergriso's spirit to calm down before it attracts the guardian's attention and ends up imprisoned once more. Quickly explain that we have been sent by the Twilight Talons to investigate his death. Before the Talons can take action, they must know how far the conspiracy goes, who all is involved, and why he was targeted. Are the Eagle Knights infiltrated? Was it the Devils? Was his family complicit? We need to know. Only then can those responsible for his untimely demise be suitably punished.
--[X] Sirim will use Aid Another to boost Kori's Bluff bonus by +2.
-[X] Kori will try to work in the questions from the list given to us by the banker.
 
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My question is, if we put him back in the grave, can we still speak to Egriso and ask him what questions we need answered? Will it be the same spirit? Something saner?

He was never in his grave in that sense, he was inside the tomb and bound with magic, but that is not some other plane, it is literally a room he has been sealed into. Kori and company could hear him through the door so logically you should have no more trouble speaking with him inside the chamber.
 
Okay, still doubt that it's the best line of coversation, but let's try it.

[X] Goldfish
 
[ ] Lying for fun and profit. And survival.

I'm a bit iffy with linking us to a sub group of the Eagle Knights. We were hired by a merchant group. What if we say were were hired as investgators by the local goverment into the circumstances sorrunding his death?

That'd still be a lie, and wouldn't rely on him doubting his own prarnoia about the Eagle Knights or on him beliving that someone cared enough about him dying so send investigators.

----
Maybe Sirim can tell Kori the name of the local government's investation group during the lie if quiered, and if the ghost is coherent enough to ask why it's a bunch of contractors, it can be explained that our government [so named for curse purposes] employers were wary of political blowback if we got caught and the investigation stopped, so wanted people they could cheaply disavow.

Edit: DP, setting politics question: While the local merchant familes do have direct access to at least targeted direct violence if they wanted to make use of it (and thus have the implicit threat of violence), and probably have legally enshrined powers to self police to an extent, does Kori view them as sperate from '[name of the] local government' in a way that would saying 'the police boss person commissioned us' would count as a lie?
 
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[ ] Lying for fun and profit. And survival.

I'm a bit iffy with linking us to a sub group of the Eagle Knights. We were hired by a merchant group. What if we say were were hired as investgators by the local goverment into the circumstances sorrunding his death?

That'd still be a lie, and wouldn't rely on him doubting his own prarnoia about the Eagle Knights or on him beliving that someone cared enough about him dying so send investigators.

----
Maybe Sirim can tell Kori the name of the local government's investation group during the lie if quiered, and if the ghost is coherent enough to ask why it's a bunch of contractors, it can be explained that our government [so named for curse purposes] employers were wary of political blowback if we got caught and the investigation stopped, so wanted people they could cheaply disavow.
It's more believable that it would be the Talons doing something like this, that makes it much more likely he'll believe us. And we don't exactly have the time to speak with Sirim to come up with a story perfectly tailored to convince him. This has to be quick.
 
It's more believable that it would be the Talons doing something like this, that makes it much more likely he'll believe us. And we don't exactly have the time to speak with Sirim to come up with a story perfectly tailored to convince him. This has to be quick.
2
I'm thinking he will find [lie:] "we were hired at a remove to investigate this by a goverment person, so our employer won't face blowback if this goes tits up" to be more believable than a subgroup of those he named as considering as being to blame for his death.

Regardless, I do strongly think that you should change it the following:

Twilight Talons to investigate his death.[] Only then can justice be done and those responsible for his untimely demise suitably punished.
to
[people who hired us] to investigate the conspiracy that lead to his death[1]. With this information, we will also be better able to bring his killers to justice

This man was involved in the smuggling of brown mold. He was not a good man - he thinks it's reasonable that he was sent to hell, and I think he'd be much more likely to belive a transactional offer than an altruistic one.

[1] Hopefully, the truth of 'investigate the conspiracy' can be folded into the bluff check of who employed us.
 
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2
I'm thinking he will find [lie:] "we were hired at a remove to investigate this by a goverment person, so our employer won't face blowback if this goes tits up" to be more believable than a subgroup of those he named as considering as being to blame for his death.

Regardless, I do strongly think that you should change it the following:

Twilight Talons to investigate his death.[] Only then can justice be done and those responsible for his untimely demise suitably punished.
to
[people who hired us] to investigate the conspiracy that lead to his death[1]. With this information, we will also be better able to bring his killers to justice

This man was involved in the smuggling of brown mold. He was not a good man - he thinks it's reasonable that he was sent to hell, and I think he'd be much more likely to belive a transactional offer than an altruistic one.

[1] Hopefully, the truth of 'investigate the conspiracy' can be folded into the bluff check of who employed us.
I've removed the reference to justice from my plan. He's and Undead spirit, he probably won't care as much about justice as he would revenge. We don't actually know that he was involved with the smuggling. It's likely, but the circumstances of this whole encounter in the tomb cast some doubt on that, IMO.

I don't want to try to make the lie too complex. It needs to be simple and believable. No need to try to explain that we're acting as deniable assets.
 
Update will be in the morning since I do not want to close this on three votes again and (more relevantly) I want to give you guys more time to talk this out and plan it.
 
OK, lets see if you can talk the incoherent ghost of the man who does not know he is dead into some kind of sense
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Apr 6, 2024 at 2:41 AM, finished with 30 posts and 4 votes.

  • [X] Lying for fun and profit. And survival.
    -[X] Quietly, but urgently, Kori whispers for Ergriso's spirit to calm down before it attracts the guardian's attention and ends up imprisoned once more. Quickly explain that we have been sent by the Twilight Talons to investigate his death. Before the Talons can take action, they must know how far the conspiracy goes, who all is involved, and why he was targeted. Are the Eagle Knights infiltrated? Was it the Devils? Was his family complicit? We need to know. Only then can those responsible for his untimely demise be suitably punished.
    --[X] Sirim will use Aid Another to boost Kori's Bluff bonus by +2.
    -[X] Kori will try to work in the questions from the list given to us by the banker.
    [X] Lying for fun and profit. And survival.
 
Arc 5 Post 25: The Measure of Madness
The Measure of Madness

26st of Rova 4707 A.R. (Absalom Reckoning)

Caught between the jaws of a trap your mind whirls. Spells might serve and blades might serve, but words you had learned might serve most of all: "We have been sent by the Talons to investigate your death."

"Lost, lost, dishonored!" the specter wails. "They mustn't know, they mustn't know! They know!"

"You are lost but not forgotten, dead but not dishonored!" you whisper with insistence equal to a shout, hoping that short simple words will cut through the fugue of his death. "Was it the devils? Was it your kin?"

"They'll know, they'll know, always whispering, always plotting!"

"Then name then and let them be damned!" The words come out as a hiss, more vehement than you had intended.

"Uncle Mennen! I don't wanna go, I don't wanna go!" A whirl of wispy tendrils forms and the words scratch at the edges of your mind, trying to splatter thoughts like a stone tossed into a quicksilver lake.

"You don't have to go anywhere, just step back a few steps. Come on, we can talk inside." A grave is like a hearth for a specter, right? You desperately search for any scrap of lore about laying the dead to rest and wish that Mina were here for this.

By chance or skill or the favor of whatever power looks out for grave robbers from grave robbers stealing that proves to be the right of it. Mouths close and not open and some semblance of clarity seems to return to the colder pits upon the chill shade that might be called its eyes. It draw back slowly into the tomb. "The birds are destroyed by jealousy, but the owl doesn't care," he whispers in parting.

Akorian Bluff (DC 30): 1d20+14 = 33 (Success)

"Huh," Cob puts his knife away. "Spook talk good!"

"I concur, that was an uncommonly skillful way of dealing with the spirit," Sirim silently adds. "Particularly as he now considers you a noble of sorts. That was an old Chelixian saying that relates to the ability of the aristocracy to know and make common cause with its own while the rabble squabbled among themselves."

Sirim Knowledge (History): 1d20+10 = 21 (Success)

"He can think I'm a shade-damned pale belly as long as he leaves us alone," you sigh in relief as Cob starts to leverage the slab open. Yet as you step into the chill of the tomb proper it occurs to you that if you can get the spirit talking then you can keep the scroll that otherwise might have gone to making the bones talk.

Thus you pull out the other scroll, the list. "Why were you trading russet mold, Ergriso Vaylen?"

"For the war, the devils are coming, the devils are coming, they are many and the sons of liberty are few! We needed a weapon!"

That throws you for a moment. From what the orc brothers had said the operation at the mines was illicit trade concerned with making money, sure as if they had been digging gems out of the ground, but the more you think of it... Why would Ergriso share his higher ideals with hirelings, especially as those ideals drove him to dangerous extremes?

Since this is not a spell and he is present here in full you break with the script. "You planned to use the mold on the enemies, a poison?"

"No, not poison, never poisoned again, never controlled, never compelled, a mutagen, an army that would know no rival!"

Moldfolk that retained their minds then, and their skills. For a moment you look around the tomb, wondering what more you can ask. Ergriso's bones are white upon the slab, one assumes alchemically treated as well, and in their grip is a slim steel bound book marred with acid burns and minor slag spots as well as a small wooded chest bound with a silver lock. Presumably they had buried this with him in the hope that they would help keep his shade down, and when that had failed they had sealed the door.

"But then your uncle Mennen discovered what you were planning and he killed you?"

"No, no didn't want to!" the dead man's voice lowers, as though echoing from some distant pit. "Didn't have a choice, shame, shame. Poison, always poison! Just like her. Mother? Mother where are you? The devils poisoned me too, just like you!"

"I suspect he was encouraged to take his own life, least it bring shame onto the family. Though his fractured mind now shies away from the knowledge, substituting other events such as the death of his mother, which might actually have been the doing of Chelish agents." Sirm notes clinically. "Still, it strains credulity that an operation to bring something as dangerous as russet mold all the way from near the Chelish border to Augustana could have been accomplished by one rogue alchemist."

Sirim Intelligence (DC 15/20): 1d20 +4 = 20 (Full Success)

"Who gave your heart to the pyre that they might spare their own?" You ask, slipping into the expressions of the People without meaning to.

It does not seem to matter, if anything the names almost come up too fast affix in mind: "Uncle, cousin Lynea, Captain Georg Smaltrim of the Andoran Navy, Sir Leonas Reefclaw."

You are about to step out of the tomb when Cob shuffles a little, closer to the bones and the book.

"No!" you call out sharply, knowing there is no way Ergrso will allow you do disturb his bones and take his things unless... If you could convince him you are interested in continuing his studies and fighting the Chelixians, only about half lie in any case. You might just be able to clear this place out.

What do you do?

[] Just leave, keeping the scroll is prize enough

[] Try to claim the grave goods
-[] Claim that you will continue Ergriso's experiments and fight the Chelixians wherever you find them (Bluff DC ???)
-[] You've learned all you need to, disperse the ghost and claim its treasures

[] Write in


OOC: Well that worked... somehow. Not the outcome I was expecting.
 
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Akorian Bluff (DC 30): 1d20+14 = 33 (Success)
Wow, that bluff worked out so well!

I kinda want to push our luck and see if we can convince him to give us his stuff. Its great additional evidence or we can use it ourselves.

Besides, we are likely to fight Chelixians whenever we meet them anyway, so not a lie.

[X] Try to claim the grave goods
-[X] Claim that you will continue Ergriso's experiments and fight the Chelixians wherever you find them (Bluff DC ???)
 
[] Try to claim the grave goods
-[] Claim that you will continue Ergriso's experiments and fight the Chelixians wherever you find them (Bluff DC ???)


what if its not a bluff but an oath. Of course we can go out of our way to avaoid Chelixian agents so we don't find them?
 
[] Try to claim the grave goods
-[] Claim that you will continue Ergriso's experiments and fight the Chelixians wherever you find them (Bluff DC ???)


what if its not a bluff but an oath. Of course we can go out of our way to avaoid Chelixian agents so we don't find them?

Do you want to make a new kind of plant solider using experimental mutagens? That is the part that would be a bluff.
 
Nice job, Kori! That was a tough one, but you pulled it off.

I'm glad that didn't come down to a fight. Combat is inevitable sometimes, but this outcome feels so much smoother.

As for Ergriso's grave goods, the notes of an Alchemist might be valuable, but they could also be relatively worthless. Either way, I don't want to push our luck too far. After all, the dice giveth and the dice taketh. If we rouse the spirit to anger and it attacks, we're going to end up using spell slots for combat that we need to facilitate our departure and there's a risk of involving one or more of the Constructs.

[X] Just leave, keeping the scroll is prize enough
 
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