This Mighty Scourge of War: A Reconstruction-Era Quest

Emphasis mine. Demobilizing the army more quickly will free up resources and make it easier to even start the process of an economic recovery.
Basically what Potato Anarchy said above, more control vs taking things faster. Faster isn't just explicity better, while freeing up resources/jump starting economic recovery is good, I want to set up things so they are able to help the most people possible, and wealth isn't concentrated upward.
 
Last edited:
Huh? My(and Potato Anarchy's) point is that it is explicitly textual that immediate demobilization is, in fact, explicitly better if you care about a swift, effective recovery.
Ok, I think I could have made my point clearer, the swift option doesn't mean having an effective recovery. If anything, the government having less control in the swift option means a less effective recovery.
 
Basically what Potato Anarchy said above, more control vs taking things faster. Faster isn't just explicity better, while freeing up resources/jump starting economic recovery is good, I want to set up things so they these things are able to help the most people possible.

Control isn't exactly all good though, because we do still want the goodwill of the Unionists in the South and having an explicitly more top-down approach to reconstruction is going to make it very easy for any rebel Democrats to point to it as an example of the tyranny of government whilst not having that backing of a militant northern society as a counter to those arguments due to demobilization not occuring yet. Also as Arcanist just pointed out demobilization immediately also provides more resources for reconstruction to occur in the first place, and all the guns and bayonets in the world isn't going to solve the question of who's paying for the Freedman Bureau's salaries, the administrative guys who will actually be expanding upon that backbone of a military occupation and what reconstruction will actually become in the long-term.
 
Last edited:
Ok, I think I could have made my point clearer, the swift option doesn't mean having an effective recovery. If anything, the government having less control in the swift option means a less effective recovery.
Why would continuing to have control necessarily mean the recovery would be more effective? We've been doing top-down control over the course of the whole Quest and it's broken a lot of shit. Now, granted, a lot of that stuff were things that needed breaking, but at the end of the day if you want to actually start fixing problems you'll need to start taking local conditions into account and local leaders are more equipped to do that.

And to be completely frank soldiers are a very bad means through which to rebuild anything. Send the boys in blue back to their farms and factories in the North - we'll need 'em there to start building up the material basis for literally physically rebuilding the South and its infrastructure.
 
Last edited:
Control isn't exactly all good though, because we do still want the goodwill of the Unionists in the South and having an explicitly more top-down approach to reconstruction is going to make it very easy for any rebel Democrats to point to it as an example of the tyranny of government whilst not having that backing of a militant northern society due to demobilization not occuring yet. Also as Arcanist just pointed out demobilization immediately also provides more resources for reconstruction to occur in the first place, and all the guns and bayonets in the world isn't going to solve the question of who's paying for the Freedman Bureau's salaries, the administrative guys who will actually be expanding upon that backbone of a military occupation and what reconstruction will actually become in the long-term.
I don't read having more control as meaning that we have to have a top-down approach. It just says "allowing more government control over policy". I do agree that demobilization will be the cheaper option, but I not exactlty sure what you mean by "the administrative guys who will actually be expanding upon that backbone of a military occupation", both options will reduce the military occupation. Also, I'm not sure where we're strapped for cash, if that was a problem it probably would have been raised.
Why would continuing to have control necessarily mean the recovery would be more effective? We've been doing top-down control over the course of the whole Quest and it's broken a lot of shit. Now, granted, a lot of that stuff were things that needed breaking, but at the end of the day if you want to actually start fixing problems you'll need to start taking local conditions into account and local leaders are more equipped to do that.

And to be completely frank soldiers are a very bad means through which to rebuild anything. Send the boys in blue back to their farms and factories in the North - we'll need 'em there to start building up the material basis for literally physically rebuilding the South and its infrastructure.
Were does the "Demobilize the Union Army piecemeal" mean that we can't take local conditions or leaders into account or that we will use soldiers to try and rebuild stuff? The piecemeal option does sent our soldiers back to farms/factories just at a slower pace. As for having more control, it allows us to have greater control of economic policies and prevent stuff like sharecropping and chain gangs.

I think people are dramatically underestimating the level at which progress has been made in regards to this stuff. We crushed the KKK, and that's a great improvement, but there is still going to be resistance regarding reconstruction even if it's not in the form of a terror organization.
 
I think people are dramatically underestimating the level at which progress has been made in regards to this stuff. We crushed the KKK, and that's a great improvement, but there is still going to be resistance regarding reconstruction even if it's not in the form of a terror organization.
If it's not in the form of a terrorist organization or a rebel army, what exactly do we need a large army for?

Also, the fact that the rapid demobilization option explicitly calls out that it takes into account local conditions strongly implies to me that the piecemeal option doesn't, or at least that it wouldn't to the same extent. This bears out logically - if the point to keeping soldiers around longer is to continue to exert top-down control(and make no mistake that's what this means, more control means more control for us the players and we're explicitly representing the top levels of the federal government), why would it take local conditions into account?

Like, this argument only makes sense if you assume that all of the work we've been doing to try and enfranchise black voters and install loyalist governments in the occupied South have comprehensively failed. And you know what? I'll concede that's possible! We don't actually know what these governments will do until they're given the ability to act! But the impression I get is that a lot of progress has been made in rooting out the worst of organized resistance to Reconstruction, and thus we should be giving them more of a free hand to act.

Like, a loyalist legislature that actually managed to vote in black politicians in the occupied South is not exactly at a significant risk of backsliding into sharecropping imo, lmao. That happened IRL after Reconstruction ended without white supremacist resistance being meaningfully disrupted.
 
Last edited:
If it's not in the form of a terrorist organization or a rebel army, what exactly do we need a large army for?

Also, the fact that the rapid demobilization option explicitly calls out that it takes into account local conditions strongly implies to me that the piecemeal option doesn't, or at least that it wouldn't to the same extent. This bears out logically - if the point to keeping soldiers around longer is to continue to exert top-down control(and make no mistake that's what this means, more control means more control for us the players and we're explicitly representing the top levels of the federal government), why would it take local conditions into account?
We don't need a large army, the piecemeal option isn't asking for a large army. I think some military presence is needed to prevent outbreak of violence, and I will take back what I regard to resistance not coming in the form of terror organizations, people will definitely try to form paramilitary groups and other organizations to try to suppress black people, if not exactly on the level of the klan, and probably not immediately after it's defeat. As for local conditions, if more control means more control for players, then why can't we delegate in certain situations, and there are places where having more control will be useful. Also, the piecemeal option is a more gradual reduction in soldiers, then that would more suggest that we are overtime transferring control, which makes more sense than maintaining the same approach as when 10% of soldiers have demoblize and when 90% of them have. Just because one options pushes explicity for one thing strongly, and the other doesn't mention it, that doesn't mean the other option won't take it into account? The wording says, "allowing for a more rapid recovery in a manner determined by local material conditions", there is also the possibility of the local material conditions having negative effects.
Like, this argument only makes sense if you assume that all of the work we've been doing to try and enfranchise black voters and install loyalist governments in the occupied South have comprehensively failed. And you know what? I'll concede that's possible! We don't actually know what these governments will do until they're given the ability to act! But the impression I get is that a lot of progress has been made in rooting out the worst of organized resistance to Reconstruction, and thus we should be giving them more of a free hand to act.

Like, a loyalist legislature that actually managed to vote in black politicians in the occupied South is not exactly at a significant risk of backsliding into sharecropping imo, lmao. That happened IRL after Reconstruction ended without white supremacist resistance being meaningfully disrupted.
You know that sharecropping took place as a main thing immediately after the civil war, during Reconstruction, not after it? It was adopted in part by the Freedmen's Bureau because it was better than gang labour, but we can do better than that, which is something we might not be able to if we take a "hands-off start". This is place where having more control would be very useful. Black politicians/voters/loyalist governments don't need to have comprehensively failed, they just could have failed in several places, they can't suceed everywhere at everything, we're going to have to give them a helping hand in some regard. Even if we have rooted out the worst of organized resistance, there are still many many racist who will try their best to impede us, note that loyalist government doesn't mean people even somewhat sympathetic to black people.
 
[X] Demobilize the Union Army immediately.

We can't guarantee the institutions will remain welded to the cause of reconstruction.
 
Back
Top