Cast-Offs of Divinity - A Merchants of Divinity Quest

--[X] Talented (Strategy and tactics). Pick a skill to start with a training multiplier of 1.3x in a skill. May be taken up to three times.
Also I'll warn you, while I included Strategy and tactics for completeness sake, I don't expect it to get much use in the near term. Most stuff will be occurring on a too small level for it to be applicable.

Also while I technically won't forbid you from taking the same general skill twice for what skills you want to start with, picking the same skill twice means you will be missing out on levels in another general skill.
Also picking Talented in a skill gives you level 3 in it (And a specialty) for free.
 
Last edited:
Plan: My Robot Army shall be Unstoppable!
A few problems. Well, the main problem is that the specialties are not separate skills. They just add onto the general skill when applicable. So you've basically wasted most of your skill slots. Remember that with Prodigy we can train up our specialties very quickly. Also, you missed the part where Talented means your skill also starts at 3 without counting against the starting limit.

So here's my more well-rounded plan where Levi hasn't completely alienated everyone around her.

[X] Plan: No Mere Plebian
-[X] Merits
--[X] Starting Weight
--[X] Talented (Science)
--[X] Prodigy (Science)
--[X] Well-Off
-[X] Detriments
--[X] Useless Skill (Naturalism)
--[X] Useless Skill (Teaching)
--[X] A Grudge
-[X] Level 3 Skills
--[X] Medicine (Pharmacology)
--[X] Mental Fortitude (Noticing Manipulation)
--[X] Science (Chemistry)
-[X] Level 2 Skills
--[X] Academics (The Gods)
--[X] Combat (Firearm)
--[X] Organizational Knowledge (Domination Law)
--[X] Perception (People's Movements)
--[X] Precision (Disarm Security)
-[X] Level 1 Skills
--[X] Athletics (Running)
--[X] Performance (Lying)
--[X] Social Knowledge (Rhetoric)
--[X] Vehicle Handling (Automobile)

[X] Plan: Full Metal Grimm
 
Last edited:
[] Plan: No Mere Plebian

[X] Plan Bootstraps Charismatic Surgeon
[X] Plan: Professor Ekhidna
 
Last edited:
Lemme pull back the curtain for a second. Lets talk about skills.

The original Merchants of Divinity had 22 general skills. Combined the soft cap mechanic which discouraged taking too many niche skills, a lot of said skills remained entirely unused.

In an effort to address this I cut things down to 15 skills. In specific:
Artistry was merged into Precision.
Security got split. Knowing how to pick a lock is Precision, knowing how set up an electronic security system is Science. Knowing how to set up code words and security checkpoints is Organizational knowledge.
Oratory arts was merged into Social knowledge.
Building was split between Science and Precision. Knowing how to lay bricks would be a specialty in Precision. Knowing how to design a building or plan a city would be Science.
Animal handling and Survival got merged into Naturalism.
Programming was merged into science.
Language was dropped entirely. If it needs to be reintroduced it can be done under Academics.

Hopefully this will simplify some things, which was one of my big goals heading into this quest. The interesting mechanics were part of what made the original Merchants of Divinity fun, but at the same time they acted as something of a barrier and slowed things down at times.

So, I'm taking the chance to distill the mechanics down where I can. Since things will still be in flux certain mechanics might have to be adjusted live depending on the results.

Still, please ask any question you may have. I'm happy to clarify anything mechanics related!
 
Hypothetically, if I was not familiar with the original Merchants of Divinity story; What is the premise?
You know, perhaps it was a slight oversight of mine to not explain that in the first post. Maybe I will go back and edit that in.

To summarize: Powerful supernatural entities exist, generally referred to as "Gods". These gods are generally associated with a set of concepts, archetypes, or beliefs they exist by, and try to shape the world to match.
If you manage to draw their attention, generally via preforming a rite or set of actions associated with them, they will appear to you in a vision, and offer you a contract which you are given the option to sign.
This contract can be anything, but generally follows a pattern of a cost and a reward.
The reward is usually some form of supernatural power.
The cost can be some sort of task you have to preform, some sort of limitation or rule you have to follow, or some sort of change to your very nature.

To give an example from the original quest:
"You, the contracted, will never again extinguish a fire. In exchange, you will be able to breathe out fire at will. The fire you breathe out will not harm you. Inhaling smoke will also not harm you."

Once you sign a contract the god will generally offer you another.
There are other details like the exact meanings of the colors (Red means a change to your nature for example, not necessarily a bad thing as shown in this example). They will all be outlined in the relevant tutorial.

A Merchant is a person who entreats the attention of many gods rather then just following a single one. To combine powers in ways that are greater then their sum, or to ameliorate downsides via clever combinations. It is a dangerous profession. The ante is your soul, and the consequence of a poorly chosen or broken contract are dire indeed. But it is also a path to great power if one is willing to risk it.
 
Last edited:
[X] Plan Bootstraps Charismatic Surgeon
-[X] Merits:
--[X] Talented (Science). Pick a skill to start with a training multiplier of 1.3x in a skill. May be taken up to three times.
--[X] Prodigy (Science). Requires Talented. Upgrades training multiplier of chosen skill to 2x.
--[X] Talented (Medicine). Pick a skill to start with a training multiplier of 1.3x in a skill. May be taken up to three times.
--[X] Talented (Social knowledge). Pick a skill to start with a training multiplier of 1.3x in a skill. May be taken up to three times.
--[X] Connections. You have either one moderately important contact, or several less important ones. Specifics to be determined in a later vote. Cannot be taken with No support network.
-[X] Detriments:
--[X] Useless skill (Strategy and tactics). Start with a training multiplier of 0.8x in a skill. May be taken up to twice.
--[X] Useless skill (Combat). Start with a training multiplier of 0.8x in a skill. May be taken up to twice.
--[X] Debts. Significant debts hang over your head. To the order of 5 high dots, though other payment options may be available.
--[X] Dust poor. Instead of starting with 5 decent dots and a basic job start with 5 poor dots and no job.
-[X] Level 3 skills:
--[X] Science (Biology)
--[X] Medicine (Surgery)
--[X] Social knowledge (Rhetoric)
--[X] Performance (Acting)
--[X] Perception (Body language)
-[X] Level 2 skills:
--[X] Organizational knowledge (AI administrator protocols)
--[X] Mental fortitude (Noticing manipulation)
--[X] Naturalism (Foraging)
--[X] Athletics (Running)
-[X] Level 1 skills:
--[X] Combat (Firearm)
--[X] Precision (Sleight of hand)
--[X] Vehicle handling (Bike)
--[X] Academics (Gods)
--[X] Teaching (Tutoring)

Went for someone consciously acting the mad scientist, maybe Leviathan still cares about people a lot more than how she acts.
 
Last edited:
Let's analyse our options for an informed opinion:

Merits
[] Weight
Not spectacular, mostly for the reason that compared to OG Merchants, it doesn't affect combat to nearly the same degree. We'd need 5 Weight before getting an extra AP, and 10 to improve our skill rolls by 17%, but other merits give more effective AP to get skills/progress crafts. Mind you, the Weight does increase our HP significantly, but the point is that as a starting option, 2 Weight doesn't give us anything which truly accelerates us.

[] Talent/Prodigy
Now this is a merit. Training skills takes a lot of time, especially high level skills, and with this we'll be halving the time to become proficient at a core skill. Very much worthwhile, as this multiplier will keep paying dividends the entire quest. We won't train Science literally every turn, but it's not unreasonable to think that we'd spend at least half our training time on science to get level 4 (maybe even 5) and new specialties for varying crafts.

I'd also like to note that the side benefit of getting an additional level 3 starting skill/specialty is also quite a bit of time savings- at base getting a level 3 skill and specialty would cost 215 exp, or 24 TAP at the start, though that measure drops significantly with additional Weight.

[] Money
A bit hard to evaluate without knowing what we'd actually need money for, or how much time 5 high dots would save us. But I don't think it's better than talent. However, having 5 high dots would mean that we could ignore our job safely for 30-50 turns (that's a lot AP saved!), depending on how much we need to invest in gods/crafting, though it's unlikely we'll remain poor for that long.

[] Allies/Friends
Seems like it would give us avenues for both money and Weight generation, and potentially even a god contact. Hard to evaluate at face value, but the customisability of it is quite nice. But a contact is most valuable when we have something to offer, making this a bit more of a long term merit.

Detriments
[] Debt
How troublesome this is depends much on how the repayment is structured, because obviously we can't pay this off early on. I'd imagine it's going to be at the very least 1-3 AP drain every turn, if you think of it as being forced to take a second job. Arguably worse than its flipside, as being forced to spend AP on debt management is likely less efficient than spending the same AP on generating wealth freely.

[] Poor
Very painful. At base we already need to spend 3 AP every turn to live, so this will not only mean we can't really craft anything at all to begin with, but we'll also be taxed additional AP to get a job, potentially one worse than the base job. We can overcome it with time, but the cost is still high and will hamper our start. ...Still likely to cost less overall than the debt, however.

[] Alone
Mostly I don't like this one because I think Leviathan needs at least some family in order to humanise her, but mechanically the biggest impact would likely be a lack of free trainers for early on. How important a trainer is varies, but having a trainer can easily mean training 30-60% faster, and friends/family can help with mitigating early resource issues as well. If not for the flavour, I'd say that it's a net gain compared to another pop of talent, though.

[] Untalented
I would never dare say this is free, but it's certainly the least painful of the bunch. This is because there will naturally be skills which we don't want to spend very much time training regardless of talent, so losing a bit of time on getting a skill to 2/2 (and small skills are cheap) if we really need the skill isn't the worst. Notably, Tom is a place full of random skill checks to get around, but that's still not enough to dissuade me from recommending taking this twice.

Naturalism and Teaching are natural choices here, as we're living in an advanced city with a likely stable food supply, and Teaching takes significant amounts of time, so it would be an unlikely focus for us. But, really, there's a lot of decent options for untalented skills as it is always possible to cover weaknesses. Specialisation is key, after all. But I will note that some parts of Tom will likely demand a bit of Naturalism in the form of Survival, but that's a problem for later, and hopefully one managed with technology.

[] An enemy
No clue how bad this would be, but it's good flavour, that's for sure.

Overall my own opinion would be going Prodigy, Talented, Well-off, Useless 2x, and Grudge. Essentially the same as @MrRageQuit, but swapping the Weight for another Talented. I'll be posting my own plan after this post (this one is long enough as it is) but my current favourite plan is No Mere Plebian, so I'll approval vote it later if need be.
 
[X] Plan: Full Metal Grimm
-[X] Merits
--[X] Talented (Vehicle handling)
--[X] Talented (Science)
--[X] Prodigy (Science)
--[X] Well-Off
-[X] Detriments
--[X] Useless Skill (Naturalism)
--[X] Useless Skill (Teaching)
--[X] A Grudge
-[X] Level 3 Skills
--[X] Science (Mechanical engineering)
--[X] Vehicle handling (Mech)
--[X] Mental fortitude (Noticing manipulation)
--[X] Social knowledge (Rhetoric)
-[X] Level 2 Skills
--[X] Academics (The Gods)
--[X] Organizational knowledge (Domination Law)
--[X] Combat (Improvised)
--[X] Perception (Body language)
--[X] Performance (Lying)
-[X] Level 1 Skills
--[X] Athletics (Running)
--[X] Precision (Blacksmith)
--[X] Naturalism (Undercity)
--[X] Teaching (Tutoring)

Much of the plan is based on No Mere Plebian, covering the bases of key knowledge like Gods and the law, but instead of focusing on medicine, this build specialises in crafting and using mechs. Vehicles in general are quite lovely as a crafter because you can fit a lot more technology on a vehicle than on just your person, and mechs (besides being cool) have the benefit of being the most mobile form of armoured vehicle in a chaotic urban environment like the Dominion. A mech doesn't need to that much larger than a person to work, and being able to put armour, super strength and large modules for weapons/scanners/drones in a mobile package is very potent. And best of all, Mechanical Engineering will cover much of what we want to do with a mech, making it a versatile speciality for most of our needs.

Quickly glancing over the rest of the skills; Mental fortitude is there to prevent save or suck effects from supernatural powers and Rhetoric is for the ability to sell our skills to potential sponsors (likely our main way of generating wealth). Godly academics is a prerequisite to being any form of Merchant, and knowing how to work the bureaucracy is key in an advanced city like the Dominion. Improvised Combat will save us from ambushes and help us think on the fly when using our mech, Body language will help us spot lies and intent (helping us in social enocunters and combat) and Lying is another part of the social encounter toolbox.

And lastly, the low-level skills: Running is good to get out of trouble, Blacksmithing helps with early crafting and potentially for in-field repairs, and perhaps a job. The plan also picks up a level of Teaching and Naturalism just so we don't need to level it later. The plan has no Medicine or Strategy. But I think Medicine can come from friends and family, and Strategy can be trained once it's actually useful for us.

@JayTar, might I ask if there's a Naturalism specialty specifically relevant for the Dominion of Tom? Not quite sure what kind of Naturalism specialties are useful here.
 
ooh, looks neat!

[X] Plan Bootstraps Charismatic Surgeon
[X] Plan: Full Metal Grimm

i might try to make my own plan later, but right now these both look good to me
 
Naturalism and Teaching are natural choices here, as we're living in an advanced city with a likely stable food supply, and Teaching takes significant amounts of time, so it would be an unlikely focus for us. But, really, there's a lot of decent options for untalented skills as it is always possible to cover weaknesses. Specialisation is key, after all. But I will note that some parts of Tom will likely demand a bit of Naturalism in the form of Survival, but that's a problem for later, and hopefully one managed with technology.
Could we use teaching of skills to those desperate to become more than average as a way to gain money/workforce/testsubjects?
Sounds like a do-or-die place and if people need us to be able to do, that could be profitable.
 
Last edited:
Could we use teaching of skills to those desperate to become more than average as a way to gain money/workforce/testsubjects?
Sounds like a do-or-die place and if people need us to be able to do, that could be profitable.
It certainly seems like it would be possible, but I must caution that such would be trying to make a career on a skill which will never be our true focus. Our long-term goal is making money via our science skill, our primary, which is to say that investing in Teaching and Naturalism would mean training skills which we'll eventually discard in favour of our preferred skills. So, yes, we can grab a little bit of Teaching for tutoring individuals, but it's not worth making it a primary skill, which is why Teaching and Naturalism are good options for unfavoured skills.
 
It certainly seems like it would be possible, but I must caution that such would be trying to make a career on a skill which will never be our true focus. Our long-term goal is making money via our science skill, our primary, which is to say that investing in Teaching and Naturalism would mean training skills which we'll eventually discard in favour of our preferred skills. So, yes, we can grab a little bit of Teaching for tutoring individuals, but it's not worth making it a primary skill, which is why Teaching and Naturalism are good options for unfavoured skills.
I think Teaching should be viewed seperate from Naturalism.

Like, once we get our preffered skills high enough to make a name for ourselves, couldn't we give lectures on it and demand either money or the pupil intern-ing in our science company?
Or stuff in that direction, keeping teaching usefull.

@JayTar
Does teaching a skill just depend on the teaching skill or on the skill we want to teach and the teaching skill?
 
Like, once we get our preffered skills high enough to make a name for ourselves, couldn't we give lectures on it and demand either money or the pupil intern-ing in our science company?
Or stuff in that direction, keeping teaching usefull.
Again, the point is that we don't really want to make money with lectures when we're going to making mad science which should be far more valuable uses of our time. And we don't need much Teaching at all to train a pupil or two if we really want to, by my understanding of Merchants of Divinity teaching rules. But even then, it would cost much time to train people until they're good enough to actually help us do science, and crafting blueprints is best done with machines.

And most of all- we're likely never going to be the most skilled person in the city, due to the simple fact that we haven't been around as long. We can become good, but never the best in terms of sheer skill, compared to people with dozens of years of experience and time to learn. So I wouldn't expect our potential lectures to be exceptionally valuable, not enough to invest in.
 
Last edited:
But even then, it would cost much time to train people until they're good enough to actually help us do science, and crafting blueprints is best done with machines.
Is that assuming pupils starting at 0 or them just being below us?
And most of all- we're likely never going to be the most skilled person in the city, due to the simple fact that we haven't been around as long. We can become good, but never the best in terms of sheer skill, compared to people with dozens of years of experience and time to learn. So I wouldn't expect our potential lectures to be exceptionally valuable, not enough to invest in.
Don't need to be the best there is. Just the best willing to teach/the best prospective pupils are able to afford.


Again, the point is that we don't really want to make money with lectures when we're going to making mad science which should be far more valuable uses of our time.
And once we start making money with mad science we could use the teaching for non-monetary gain.
Like teaching lectures and getting paid by the undergrad pupils assisting us in science. Or them being willing lab-rats.
 
Is that assuming pupils starting at 0 or them just being below us?

Don't need to be the best there is. Just the best willing to teach/the best prospective pupils are able to afford.

And once we start making money with mad science we could use the teaching for non-monetary gain.
Like teaching lectures and getting paid by the undergrad pupils assisting us in science. Or them being willing lab-rats.
It sort of doesn't matter if they start at 0 or not? Let's say we're at Science 4 and they're at 3: It would be the difference between needing to teach 785 exp or 625 exp. Either way, it's a very significant amount of AP and just sheer weeks to invest in people. Could be worth it for a few key friends or allies, but teaching a cadre of peers would be a large drain on our AP.

Alright, but the point is, why invest in earning money with something we'd be mediocre at, compared to earning money with something we're going to be really good at? Exp is fungible: Training one skill means not training another. I'm not seeing the case for Teaching being more important than our other skills.

We can get money by using our core specialisation, and we can recruit actual employees if we want assistants. We need to choose something to not specialise in, and Teaching seems very much replacable in my opinion.
 
It sort of doesn't matter if they start at 0 or not? Let's say we're at Science 4 and they're at 3: It would be the difference between needing to teach 785 exp or 625 exp.
It would make a tremendous differences if Science 3 is a useful assistant to a level 4 and 1 AP of lecturing gets us more assistant hours per turn than the money of 1 AP used economical would buy for a turn.

Its all speculation, but too plausible for me to agree that teaching is definitely a dump stat for a mad scientist.
 
I will note I defined the Merit and Detriment options before the location vote was decided, so it makes sense that some might seem better/worse due to the location.

@JayTar, might I ask if there's a Naturalism specialty specifically relevant for the Dominion of Tom? Not quite sure what kind of Naturalism specialties are useful here.
Animal Farming for the production or handling of animal test subjects. Hardly necessary, but they have to come from somewhere.
Urban Survival if you catch an urban exploration bug and start digging off the beaten path.
There may also be some yet-undefined synergies available with Science (Biology). Depends entirely on what you plan to do and how things evolve.

And of course if you leave the city all bets are off. But you might have other tools by the time you get to that.

@JayTar
Does teaching a skill just depend on the teaching skill or on the skill we want to teach and the teaching skill?
The max level you can teach is dependent on your level in that skill. The effectiveness of your teaching and the number of people you can teach is dependent on your teaching skill.


More generally on the teaching discussion however...
Well Leviathan has observed that a surprising number of high level scientists lecture part time. Not all of them. Not even a majority. But more then SHE thinks there should be.
Of course she is basing this on what she thinks she would do if she was in their position. So take it with a grain of salt if you will.
 
Last edited:
And most of all- we're likely never going to be the most skilled person in the city, due to the simple fact that we haven't been around as long. We can become good, but never the best in terms of sheer skill, compared to people with dozens of years of experience and time to learn. So I wouldn't expect our potential lectures to be exceptionally valuable, not enough to invest in.
I wouldn't be so sure that we won't be able to become the most experienced.
Firstly, the city we live in is described as Darwinian, encouraging competition and results. That is, scientists simply do not have time to sit and methodically accumulate skills. I suspect that for them it's a constant run for more and more insane experiments hoping to get out of the crowd of the same as them, hoping to set up everyone around along the way hoping to earn funding for further experiments or get more Weight. That is, most likely, the mortality rate is very high.
Secondly, we will conclude contracts with the gods, and if the gods come across suitable ones and their gifts are synergistic, then we will be able to make a sharp leap in skills.
Thirdly, the very amount of our Weight makes us better than the rest, giving us more AP and adding faces to our cubes.
More generally on the teaching discussion however...
Well Leviathan has observed that a surprising number of high level scientists lecture part time. Not all of them. Not even a majority. But more then SHE thinks there should be.
Of course she is basing this on what she thinks she would do if she was in their position. So take it with a grain of salt if you will.
Maybe this is a safe way to increase your Weight? After all, students are a pretty effective way to leave their mark on history.
 
Back
Top