The Lonely Lioness - Cersei Lannister Quest

Reader mode
butchock said:
Since my plan involves Varys contacting his allies in Cracklaw Point, can that be under letters or a separate action? Also did Cersei become suspicious of him since he was the one that mentioned he has allies in Cracklaw point and we didn't received information from him that Caern will be landing there?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Varys told you just the previous update that the pointsmen would rebel.
 
[X] Plan: Cersei of King's Landing

Huh, this an interesting quest. Some sanity in the royal family. Now if only we'd been dropped in right after her marriage so we'd have had time to build canals and get people enthusiastic about river ships! :V

And in case anyone is like me and wants to send gold cloaks without leaving King's landing:

[X] Plan: Golden Crownlands
-[X] [Fleet] A war fleet for the high seas to counter Stannis.
-[X] [War] Send some troops to Duskendale to organize a defense there. The northern Crownlands must remain under your control. (Write-In how many to send)
--[X] 3x Light Infantry (Gold Cloaks)
--[X] 6x Light Infantry (Levies)
--[X] 2x Archers (Levies)
--[X] 1x Heavy Cavalry (Levies)
---[X] Appoint Lord Rykker to lead the combined royal army against the Mummers' Dragon. His fief will be central to the fighting, and he will be familiar with the Crownlander notables involved - on both sides.
 
To flesh out my reasoning for not sending Goldcloaks. . .

I threw the word "cohesion" around earlier, as well as unit quality, but didn't really explain what I meant. Westerosi elites, especially those of Andal Westeros, value knights and knightly combat, and build armies to support knightly arms. They do not place much stock in their infantry, of whatever type, except to the extent that it can support the heavy horse. This elite attitude is especially evident with respect to the urban militia (e.g., the Goldcloaks of King's Landing). In Cersei's inner monologue, we hear that they are recruited from among the dregs of society, are regarded as scum, and are barely trained. To what extent these things are true is somewhat beside the point -- these are the things the elite believes. The common soldiers can catch onto whether their leaders and leadership class value their lives or the kind of fighting they do. If they perceive that they are not valued, they will have less incentive to live up to the best ideals of mutual support on the line where they might die, and every incentive to live down to their leaders' preconceptions which will at least keep them alive. They will likely desert before battle, or break and run in it.

To some extent this is also true of the rural levies of archers and light infantry, but I believe the effect to be somewhat mitigated by their being Crownlanders and valued by the Crownlander officers of this particular army on that basis. Not necessarily out of proto-nationalism or what have you -- but if you're a feudal lord it's harder on the productivity of your lands to spend your peasants' lives than to spend the lives of someone else's peasants. The peasants know this, and are more likely to trust and follow the plans of their lords over "foreign" officers. Not incidentally, this is another reason not to send Cersei with the army. She is a Westerlander and the royal court takes taxes from all over the realm, so she would not have the same incentive to value her soldiers, a fact which will not be lost on the soldiers.

Long-term this overvaluing of the knightly class and devaluing of the urban militia and of the rural levies is a social problem that will need to be addressed (at bottom it's the same problem that afflicts the Night's Watch!), but we do not have that time. Nor does spite-driven, short-sighted Cersei really have the inclination. Nothing we can do in the short term (speechifying to the army, accompanying the army, etc.) can reasonably be expected to work, and sending out Goldcloaks to fight will not in itself be taken as an expression of trust or faith. Better to leave the Goldcloaks in King's Landing for now. At least keeping them all around will be decent security against a daring raid on the city by sea, whether by Caern or by Stannis.
 
Last edited:
I mean, if nothing else the goldcloaks can be used as garrison troops to hold a wall in duskendale or other crownland keeps to free up more men at arms.
 
I mean to get the Gold Cloaks back to their heights is basically during the Dance of the Dragons under the Blacks and that was their greatest hurrah. We need a charismatic prince able to get the drudgework done and we don't have one to spare since they're all children. We're also fighting the gaggle of Targaryens against us so... where is the Faith when you need it.
 
Would goldcloaks be seen as lower/worse than peasant levies? They ought to be at least more experienced than most of our infantry.
I kind of like the idea of Cercei going with the army, although historically there were cases when royal's presence in the army with an appointed commander created a lot of confusion.
[X] Plan: Cersei of King's Landing
 
Primary purpose of the Gold Cloaks is keeping order in the city, maybe enforce some laws, and to act as the kings enforcers in Kings Landing. They are also incredibly corrupt and the job mostly draws the kind of people that you'd expect, while the officer ranks are filled solely by nepotism.

Being a military outfit is by far a secondary concern and they are not different from a peasant levie in that function.
 
[X] Plan: Golden Crownlands
[X] Plan: Cersei of Casterly Rock

The goldcloaks aren't very good fighters, but quantity is a quality of its own and we can't take chances here. @Azel are the 6k light infantry troops we have listed the Lannister soldiers garrisoning the city, or the results of calling up the banners of the loyal crownlander houses? If it's the former, would we be able to call the banners quickly enough to move out to Duskendale?

If we can get more men to trickle in, we can have some garrison KL to make up for the men we're pulling out or have them meet at KL or Rosby before moving on to Duskendale.
 
Last edited:
GildedSergeant said:
The goldcloaks aren't very good fighters, but quantity is a quality of its own and we can't take chances here.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We're taking a chance whatever we do. That Braavosi fleet that landed Caern might yet land marines in or near King's Landing, and Stannis might make a move of his own. If Varys's estimates of the rebel force are accurate, a levy-and-knights-only army has just about numerical parity with the pretender's, and should have the advantage of garrisoning keeps to more than make up the difference.
 
Hmm. The only one in position to attack capital immediately would be Stannis, and he could also recieve warning about our army leaving via Melisandre. Well, he could also have it by conventional means, but Melisandre could see it before we even make a decision.
On the other hand, taking the capital doesn't give Stannis that much. He still doesn't have a large army, and would be expected to lose it soon.
I wonder if there is some way to get Tommen and Myrcella out of the city, just in case. I doubt it - I kinda don't want to trust Varys with them.
 
GildedSergeant said:
[X] Plan: Golden Crownlands

The goldcloaks aren't very good fighters, but quantity is a quality of its own and we can't take chances here. @Azel are the 6k light infantry troops we have listed the Lannister soldiers garrisoning the city, or the results of calling up the banners of the loyal crownlander houses? If it's the former, would we be able to call the banners quickly enough to move out to Duskendale?

If we can get more men to trickle in, we can have some garrison KL to make up for the men we're pulling out or have them meet at KL or Rosby before moving on to Duskendale.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's the Crownlander levies. There are no Lannister troops in Kings Landing except for the 100 men strong household guard that Cersei relies on in absence of the Kingsguard.

If you want further reinforcements, you'll have to call on the people in the Riverlands.
 
Remember, heavy spending will empower Baelish & the gold cloaks are loyal to their paymaster.
 
I mean, with all the extra enemies we have with the targs Petyr might actually support us for real, for a while anyways. What a miracle. We really should find time to dig into his embezzling at some point though.
 
Zimmerwald1915 said:
This seems like the sort of appeal that would pay dividends only after Joff wins the crown and House Baratheon-Lannister some goodwill by putting an end to Clegane's depredations.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You call to make. I just wanted to point out it's an option if you don't fancy your chances in a fight where the enemy has more cavalry than you.
 
Ilianort said:
Hmm. The only one in position to attack capital immediately would be Stannis, and he could also recieve warning about our army leaving via Melisandre. Well, he could also have it by conventional means, but Melisandre could see it before we even make a decision.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well, going foward I think we should asume that melisandre can see every plan we make.

Does Varys know any like, magic hunters, or something like that? I remember in canon he hated sorcery.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Back
Top