In The Shadow of The Eagle

[] The Philadelphians (Ultra-Left)
-[] The re-establishment of the political clubs throughout France and her sister republi- her vassal kingdoms and allies.
-[] The right of a man to advocate for other forms of government than our Empire - mistaken though such a man must be - should be unrestricted.
-[] Approve the expansion of the Napoleonic Code.
-[] Approve the crippling Austrian Indemnity.

Being a cringe reformist. For now.

But yeah - I don't fully understand how to do extra parliamentarian shit right now, so I'm not doing any. Best to get established, get feet under the table with political clubs again, and then see where we can build from there?

Also, fuck Austria

[] The Constitutionalists (Center-left)
- [] Approve the expansion of the Napoleonic Code.
-- [] [Legislative] As a condition for support, propose a new European economic and political treaty to bind the harmonized states of Europe together into a confederation of sovereign entities safeguarded by France as its natural primus inter pares.
- [] Approve the crippling Austrian Indemnity.
-- [] [Legislative] As a condition for support, the provisional government in Vienna should be facilitated in taking up loans and subscriptions of public bonds for the payment of its indemnity and that under the French ambassador a public instrument of the debts be drawn up for consistent and stable repayment that neither vandalizes the state nor cheats France of a single red penny her blood has been shed to earn.
- [] [Non-Legislative] Build support for Constitutionalism among the educated middle class and lesser nobility, particularly state officials, military officers, and merchants, with an emphasis on fairly but strictly enforced laws, open commerce, and a European confederation of states with France at its head.

Having expressed Parliament's power through rejection of the first Prime Ministerial candidate, it is now time to exercise a moderating and reforming influence upon the government as it exists. The Regency shall have our loyal support, in exchange for their own embrace of the principles of good government. By creating a European confederation and extending mercy to our former foes in Austria, we shall unite the Continental states and make Napoleon's System, once only a great man's dream, into enduring reality.

It would be interesting to see the borders of Europe at the moment.

Depending on the geopolitical situation, the collapse of Austria due to debts on many Slavic states can be beneficial for both us and the Russians. A strong Poland would be a great option to contain the revanchism of Russia and the former Prussia.

[] The Constitutionalists (Center-left)
- [X] Approve the expansion of the Napoleonic Code.
-- [X] As a condition for support, propose a new European economic and political treaty to bind the harmonized states of Europe together into a confederation of sovereign entities safeguarded by France as its natural primus inter pares.
-[X] Approve the crippling Austrian Indemnity.


this is the same as etranger plan except it fucks the austrians all the way, cause fuck them what they gonna do cry about it?

[] The Philadelphians (Ultra-Left)

Babeufist bros…we're so fucking back.

Arcus said:

Can you give us a few examples of possible policy planks, just to help give the thread a feel for things?

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Of course. Vet and Etran's examples above are pretty good ones, but generally, suggest broad actions or platforms which the government may interpret into laws. "Demobilize the army". "Raise taxes", etc. You may also suggest very specific actions like "Make Murat King of Sicily", which may also be followed. The closer your plank is to the values of those in power or the government itself, the better the chance the government accepts it.

For example, "Make everyone have to salute after they say the name Napoleon" will be very acceptable to the government, and you can probably propose it by itself (that is, without 'trading' it for anything the government wants) and see it passed in some form.

While "Make the Regent change his name to Eugene the Boring" is something that will get a lot more pushback and require overwhelming extra-parliamentary support -- or, more likely, an entirely new and more favorable government.

Woltaire said:

cause fuck them what they gonna do cry about it?

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Great Britain: 8th Coalition Noises after Industrialisation essentially brought their economy back up quickly while also expanding colonies in Africa, North America, and Asia with great fervor to increase their reasource and trade reach to economically recover.

Who knows, the Brits may develop new ideas such as Steampowered Tools and Convator Belts to be able to have more rifles and other products than France.

I feel like honestly as a means of keeping a French foot in the door in whatever restructuring takes place in Austria, as part of looking with increasing nervousness the sheer costs of maintaining a Napoleonic world order over Europe and at how many of Napoleon's soldiers stayed behind under Austrian/Polish/etc.. soil, and as a revenue stream that doesn't come from leaning on any citizens domestically, it's gonna be hard even from a Jacobin perspective to resist the siren song of decreeing indemnities upon Austria and maybe Sweden and so on, as the period laws of war allow us to do so. That being so, I feel like the most Constitutionalist way to go about it would be a plank to suggest to the Regent a reasonable way to regulate its payment. (i.e. doing debt colonialism).

Something like
[] Approve the crippling Austrian Indemnity.
-[] Under the condition that the provisional government in Vienna be facilitated in taking up loans and subscriptions of public bonds for the payment of its indemnity and that under the French ambassador a public instrument of the debts be drawn up for consistent and stable repayment that neither vandalizes the state nor cheats France of a single red penny her blood has been shed to earn.

Leave the Austrian Indemnity as it is if we accept it. Britain's going to plot against us for as long as we're unable to invade them, so it is in our best interest to ensure that whatever coalition partners Britain can gather are as weak as possible.

[] The Jacobins (Left)
-[] Approve the crippling Austrian Indemnity.
--[] [Legislative] As a condition of approval, propose diverting the funds thus obtained to the Bank of France so that it may extend credit for the internal improvement and revitalization of France's agriculture, industries, and transport, companies receiving loans from which must offer employment at last resort to the urban poor who obtain the permission of their maire and to veterans who obtain the permission of an officer above the rank of capitaine.
-[] Approve the expansion of the Napoleonic Code.
--[] [Legislative] Propose an amendment of the Additional Act to permit plural as well as individual petitions, and assembly of a district's citizens for the purpose of gathering signatures for petitions provided that one week's notice is provided to the district's maire, but without requiring permission.
-[] [Non-Legislative] [Underground] Establish committees of correspondence between Republican political centers in the cities, and between them and the countryside and Jourdan's army in Spain, to coordinate agitation and action (effect, per Telamon: parties of the Left gain an additional [Non-Legislative] [Underground] plank).
-[] [Non-Legislative] [Underground] Organize assemblies in Spanish and Portuguese towns where Jourdan's army is billeted, so that the soldiers may protect them from police retaliation, on the model proposed above vis a vis the Napoleonic Code, to petition for universal suffrage to those countries' local and national governments.

Following consultation with @Telamon , the effect of the second plan's [underground] plank is finalized, and I intend to vote for the second plan. I strongly recommend that other Jacobin voters do the same. I also strongly recommend that Constitutionalist and Philadelphian sympathizers consider giving their votes to the second Jacobin plan, as means of advancing your party interest and the interest of the republican Left as a whole.

bookwyrm said:

I feel like honestly as a means of keeping a French foot in the door in whatever restructuring takes place in Austria, as part of looking with increasing nervousness the sheer costs of maintaining a Napoleonic world order over Europe and at how many of Napoleon's soldiers stayed behind under Austrian/Polish/etc.. soil, and as a revenue stream that doesn't come from leaning on any citizens domestically, it's gonna be hard even from a Jacobin perspective to resist the siren song of decreeing indemnities upon Austria and maybe Sweden and so on, as the period laws of war allow us to do so. That being so, I feel like the most Constitutionalist way to go about it would be a plank to suggest to the Regent a reasonable way to regulate its payment. (i.e. doing debt colonialism).

Something like
[] Approve the crippling Austrian Indemnity.
-[] Under the condition that the provisional government in Vienna be facilitated in taking up loans and subscriptions of public bonds for the payment of its indemnity and that under the French ambassador a public instrument of the debts be drawn up for consistent and stable repayment that neither vandalizes the state nor cheats France of a single red penny her blood has been shed to earn.

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I'd be willing to vote for this instead of debt reduction if you're up for endorsing the rest of my plan.

Etranger said:

I'd be willing to vote for this instead of debt reduction if you're up for endorsing the rest of my plan.

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Absolutely! It syncs together in a real like "the IMF but inflicted on feudalism" way. Like "I'm sorry but with mortmain title and serfdom still in effect you're not meeting the targets we want to see in economic freedom and fair trade between brother Europeans, yeah, looks like we're gonna have to bump your interest rates by 150%"

We might want to not approve the Austrian indemnity. Bad things tend to happen when Austrians get their country saddled with debt.

Memes aside, if we want to spread our revolutionary ideas across the world and institute a Pax Francia, having our neighbors despise us is not the way to do it.

Okay I'm rethinking (aloud, in the thread) and I was wondering if it would be possible to swing my two philadelphian planks - the re-establishment of political clubs and the protection of anti-government speech - as being expressions of the right to petition, just... collectivised, and as such, just the Philadelphians' minor stipulations for approving the napoleonic code?

Bobalo18 said:

We might want to not approve the Austrian indemnity. Bad things tend to happen when Austrians get their country saddled with debt.

Memes aside, if we want to spread our revolutionary ideas across the world and institute a Pax Francia, having our neighbors despise us is not the way to do it.

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What are they gonna do? Have a revolution about it?

[] The Dandies (Center Right)
-[] Approve the expansion of the Napoleonic Code.
-[] Approve the crippling Austrian Indemnity.
--[] Divert the funds thus obtained to capitalizing National Companies for the internal improvement and revitalization of France's lands, industries, and transport, offering employment at last resort to the urban poor with the permission of their maire and to veterans with the permission of an officer above the rank of capitaine.
-[] Propose that France immediately starts preparing for a war with the Ottoman Empire to take Egypt. The Emperor would have wanted us to finish what he started in 1798!
--[] Propose Foreign Affairs reopens relations with the Qajars to revive the Franco-Persian Alliance, to preoccupy the Ottomans on two fronts.
-[] Form a Cult of Napoleon, and propose that this Cult be given official state backing.

Bobalo18 said:

Memes aside, if we want to spread our revolutionary ideas across the world and institute a Pax Francia, having our neighbors despise us is not the way to do it.

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It's called the Austrian Indemnity, but reading the description makes it look like it's borne jointly and severally by Russia. This is good for two reasons: 1. crippling Russia economically helps keep in down when its core territories are far away from, and not governed by, France; and 2. the primary targets of Russian revanchism will be Poland and Lithuania, and we can use a revanchist Russia as a bugbear to keep Poland and Lithuania on side.

veteranMortal said:

Okay I'm rethinking (aloud, in the thread) and I was wondering if it would be possible to swing my two philadelphian planks - the re-establishment of political clubs and the protection of anti-government speech - as being expressions of the right to petition, just... collectivised, and as such, just the Philadelphians' minor stipulations for approving the napoleonic code?

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a noble public service to help tutor the masses in how they might lawfully invoke their rights to petition their government and be truly patriotic citizens under their father-like emperor, clearly not agitating for democracy at all!

My suggestion for the Dandies is a non legislative plank registering the Muscadines as a social club, forswearing illegal activity and expelling noncompliant members.

Etranger said:

-- [] As a condition for support, the provisional government in Vienna should be facilitated in taking up loans and subscriptions of public bonds for the payment of its indemnity and that under the French ambassador a public instrument of the debts be drawn up for consistent and stable repayment that neither vandalizes the state nor cheats France of a single red penny her blood has been shed to earn.

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I think this is a sound idea. In the future we should be willing to also consider giving Austria some slack. We do not want to make an Austrian 1800s version of Hitler.

At the very least, encouraging good behavior with rewards. (lower debts, some land back, good trade terms, etc)

I wanna Haiti Austria so bad its unreal how much i want to do it.

bookwyrm said:

a noble public service

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We found a Noble Symphasiser to the Old Regime..

[] The Dandies (Center Right)
-[] Approve the expansion of the Napoleonic Code.
-[] Approve the crippling Austrian Indemnity.
-[] Propose that France immediately starts preparing for a war with the Ottoman Empire to take Egypt. The Emperor would have wanted us to finish what he started in 1798! This will also assist us in reasserting our former claims over India, as our Emperor said at the time.
-[] Propose an expansion of funds to be used by the Navy. Our greatest enemy continues to thrive right off our very coast, and the Empire cannot truly be safe until Britain is wiped out once and for all.

Random's plan is great, but we must address the British before doing anything else. The only way to safeguard Napoleon's legacy is to ensure the legacy of his Empire!

[] La Maison (Center)
-[] Plan: Glory, Glamour, Greatness
--[] Approve the expansion of the Napoleonic Code.
--[] Approve the crippling Austrian Indemnity.
--[] Begin a partial demobilization of the French military to initiate a transformation towards a more sustainable peace time economy. Use 1/3 of the Austrian indemnity to purchase land for the demobilized veterans and another 1/3 to initiate a grand program of public works to reinvigorate the French economy.
--[] Begin instituting a formalized and standardized system of tariffs across all of Europe that protects French industries but allows the Empire to export its riches. Guarantee affordable grain for all of France and use government funds to subsidize if necessary.

Who bets Ottomans will be part of the 8th Coalition with Britain?