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Great Man Theory (Warhammer Fantasy)

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[X] Plan Politics
-[X] Have your cake, and eat it too.
-[X] Confront her privately.
-[X] Confront him in front of the rest of the council.
-[X] Gather the militia that broke
-[X] Talk to Misha. {Write in} "Highlight the dangers of Herminia's and Rosmalen's advantages and immediate threat using their treachery during the battle as evidence and offer to make a pact against them"

We know rosmalen got updates over the night, we know be didn't come and left us to our fate. We don't know what happened with herminias efforts... Also yes, let's build our powerbase.
 
[] Plan Politics

I somewhat lament not picking the undead trophy (strut into the meeting with your kill to get clout, Norsca style), but what can ya do? Too many important things to do.

caladborg said:
As for choosing the non-fanatical gathering option, well I don't want that to be the default go-to option for Asavar.
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What are you talking about? It's been working out great! I'm sure Verena agrees. Right, Verena?

 
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This will be a lengthy one, rationale is directly below the plan. @Minyette06, lemme know if the write-ins are not acceptable.

[X] Plan: A Question of Honour.
-[X] Let what would take its course take its course.
-[X] Herminia
--[X] Confront her privately
---[X] WRITE-IN. Rosmalen plots to make himself the master of Meissen, and the only winners will be his own men. Secure her support against him and have her help to get the militia into the Council's chamber. We'll figure out the rest after the ambitious mercenary is no longer a threat.
-[X] Rosmalen
--[X] Confront him in front of the rest of the council
--[X] Collect the corpse of your kill
--[X] Gather the militia that broke
---[X] WRITE-IN. Challenge Rosmalen to a duel in a way that he cannot refuse. Reveal Rosmalen's treachery to rally the militia against the mercenaries: the supplies that never came, the reinforcements that never arrived, all their dead and wounded. All the fault of Rosmalen's betrayal. Lead them to the Council to air their grievances, throw the Horror at the council's feet, and shout our challenge at the mercenary: "Rosmalen! I name you COWARD!"

I don't see a reason to fight both councilors, as it may be enough to turn both of them against us. Best to take care of the immediate threat, the mercenary who has 49 well-armed and well-rested swordsmen inside the castle walls. He is a threat to everyone else, including Herminia (who strikes me as a political survivor anyway).

Let us also strip Rosmalen of his greatest asset, his mercenaries, by making it about him and his honor. Tilea has a strong duelist culture, so backing down from our challenge will be unfeasible for him. And if he backs down anyway, his political standing will be very much damaged.

Lastly, on the surviving zealots. I am flexible on this choice, and will change it if its critical to secure votes for the rest of the plan. However, Verena really didn't appreciate how we manipulated them and took away their agency. Moreover, the selfishness of the choice is called out by Asavar himself, and it feels inappropriate to me. But, as I said, I'm flexible on it.
 
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[X] Plan: A Question of Honour

This, I agree with. First of all, I believe the surviving fanatics really should be free to do what they wish after this. Asavar's treatment of them was only justified because of an immediate emergency. It was ugly anyway, and someone who keeps on doing that to other people is not a protagonist I can get behind. They fought, they survived. They acquitted themselves well. They have earned fair treatment and the right to choose for themselves.

As for the political situation...I do agree that, while Herminia's incompetence/sabotage was inexcusable, Rosmalen is a far bigger threat. So getting the former on our side to deal with the latter is a good move. One point, however: if we are going to make Asavar fight a duel, we need to get him a proper weapon. So would @Baltika9 be willing to change the plan to include the getting a weapon action?
 
Vocalist said:
One point, however: if we are going to make Asavar fight a duel, we need to get him a proper weapon. So would @Baltika9 be willing to change the plan to include the getting a weapon action?
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I would love to, but I think that the other actions are too important. The Horror is a symbol of Asavar's achievement and loyalty - this is what proves that we're one of 'the tribe.' Rallying the militia, meanwhile, is necessary to discredit Rosmalen and amplify our clout.

Our Norscan trait gives us combat rerolls to our 17 Martial, so we can get through this even with a broken blade. And even then, a 'duel of honor' implies evenly armed opponents. And all of that is only relevant if Rosmalen doesn't chicken out once he sees the Horror whose head we ripped off.
 
what exactly did we fight and kill to be honest, it seems way to big for the undead dog type.
 
rokafella said:
what exactly did we fight and kill to be honest, it seems way to big for the undead dog type.
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I think it was a Crypt Horror:
warhammerfantasy.fandom.com

Crypt Horrors

"These creatures always amuse me. Oh, certainly they can be useful, having minions who can go out in the daylight, however much they might not want to, is not to be underrated. Yet the irony is not lost on me, that I have some Humans who are so desperate for the scraps from my table that they...
warhammerfantasy.fandom.com warhammerfantasy.fandom.com
 
Baltika9 said:
Plan: A Question of Honour.
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I can see myself backing this. It has the trophy kill, and it's probably better to let the our battle brothers follow their hearts rather than potentially ruin the moment in an attempted political play.

That said, I'm not too comfortable with write-in heavy plans on principle. They tend to feel like we're gaming the system too hard with particular wordings that accomplish multiple objectives rather than commit to the choice offered and letting the dice and author do the rest. Not to say I won't support write-ins that amuse or intrigue me, but here they're long and specific enough to feel like we're scripting the full events.

But again I do agree with all the choices. If Minyette gives it the ok I'll change my vote to this plan for sure.
 
So for the 'what to do with the fanatics' vote in particular. While @DamnedAeons 187 in particular focused on the 'support' and political aspect, that is not really what it is about for me tbh. The politics part was the talking action and regaining the routed militia.
For one, the fanatics are just 6 men; not much of an army.

For me, the idea of gaining something resembling a 'Brotherhood' would be really interesting to see. Someone whose desire to be a name in the annals of history led him all the way to the Borderlands is willing to do extreme things to achieve that goal, and said person being one to do something that is described as 'It was so very deeply selfish, the compromise of someone who refused to give up anything' is both fitting and powerful characterization to me.

Plus, as the descriptions say, we are returning their minds to them. They won't be slaves much like close friends aren't. As it says, they are meant to be bonded to Asavar through bonds of brotherhood, but their minds are their own. And said bonds of brotherhood they already gained through the shared experience on the battlefield, not some sorcery on Asavar's part. Let them cope however they may seems to relinquish the support network for 'freedom ho!' instead, letting them go handle things on their own( which I will note might not even lead to a good outcome, because as Asavar said, not all minds can go through all that and be fine).
Which isn't bad per say, just not as good a read in the first chapter of the legend according to me.

As a final note, if we want the people to be fine in particular, why not choose the "Pull the thread taunt until it all unravelled." option instead? Guide them on the path back to 'human' just like you led them towards 'weapon', instead of letting them handle things they might not be able to alone. That seems more like shirking responsibility.
 
caladborg said:
As a final note, if we want the people to be fine in particular, why not choose the "Pull the thread taunt until it all unravelled." option instead? Guide them on the path back to 'human' just like you led them towards 'weapon', instead of letting them handle things they might not be able to alone. That seems more like shirking responsibility.
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For me, it's the question of agency that the chapter highlights.

[] Let what would take its course take its course.

Yesterday you had ripped autonomy through these people in a wild and frenetic show of dehumanisation and blame. This morning, you should step away and let them claim autonomy in finding their own way in the confusion and disorientation.
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I would prefer to let them have time to make a choice, whatever it is, and speak to them afterwards. Feels like the right thing to do here.
 
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Baltika9 said:
This will be a lengthy one, rationale is directly below the plan. @Minyette06, lemme know if the write-ins are not acceptable.

[X] Plan: A Question of Honour.
-[X] Let what would take its course take its course.
-[X] Herminia
--[X] Confront her privately
---[X] WRITE-IN. Rosmalen plots to make himself the master of Meissen, and the only winners will be his own men. Secure her support against him and have her help to get the militia into the Council's chamber. We'll figure out the rest after the ambitious mercenary is no longer a threat.
-[X] Rosmalen
--[X] Confront him in front of the rest of the council
--[X] Collect the corpse of your kill
--[X] Gather the militia that broke
---[X] WRITE-IN. Challenge Rosmalen to a duel in a way that he cannot refuse. Reveal Rosmalen's treachery to rally the militia against the mercenaries: the supplies that never came, the reinforcements that never arrived, all their dead and wounded. All the fault of Rosmalen's betrayal. Lead them to the Council to air their grievances, throw the Horror at the council's feet, and shout our challenge at the mercenary: "Rosmalen! I name you COWARD!"
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There was going to be a series of other votes determining how you went about confronting the councilors, but if you want to set the 'goal' of the confrontations early, that's entirely valid. There will still be further votes for both, but it would mean the options would be more refined towards potentially getting you to the goal of either getting Heminia on side, or forcing Rosmalen into a duel.

rokafella said:
what exactly did we fight and kill to be honest, it seems way to big for the undead dog type.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Baltika9 said:
I think it was a Crypt Horror:
warhammerfantasy.fandom.com

Crypt Horrors

"These creatures always amuse me. Oh, certainly they can be useful, having minions who can go out in the daylight, however much they might not want to, is not to be underrated. Yet the irony is not lost on me, that I have some Humans who are so desperate for the scraps from my table that they...
warhammerfantasy.fandom.com warhammerfantasy.fandom.com
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The horror was indeed a very oversized Crypt Horror.

Tlax said:
[X] Plan Politics

I somewhat lament not picking the undead trophy (strut into the meeting with your kill to get clout, Norsca style), but what can ya do? Too many important things to do.



What are you talking about? It's been working out great! I'm sure Verena agrees. Right, Verena?

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Fuck that tickled me something fierce. I can just imagine Khorne in the background yelling "YEAH IT'S NOT VERY NICE WHEN THEY START DOING WEIRD SHIT YOU DON'T APPROVE OF HUH?"
 
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Minyette06 said:
There was going to be a series of other votes determining how you went about confronting the councilors, but if you want to set the 'goal' of the confrontations early, that's entirely valid. There will still be further votes for both, but it would mean the options would be more refined towards potentially getting you to the goal of either getting Heminia on side, or forcing Rosmalen into a duel.
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Alrighty, thanks!
Tlax said:
But again I do agree with all the choices. If Minyette gives it the ok I'll change my vote to this plan for sure.
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Does the plan still have your support?
 
[X] Plan Politics

Cal's plan hits most of what I consider to be important and would rather that win than the other.
 
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