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Bloody Evolution (RWBY / LoR)

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You shouldnt agonize over the decisions too much.

From the get go, this quest is on easy mode anyway. We basically have a final boss level character, assisted by 4 extremely versatile immortal assistants.

Just do what Binah do. Sit back, relax, sip on some tea, and enjoy where fate takes us.

If the vote stops us from seeing the white fang get murdered by Love, eh whatever, I have tea.

Atleast, I believe thats what a Librarian of the floor of Philosophy would do.

Since I follow Hokma and Sir Ayin, my personal advice would be more along the line of "Trust in the great leader, A."
 
Nyarky said:
*Sigh* and the white knighting begins…. Borrrrriiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnggggggggg.
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Seeing that this is being brought up again, I went to look for that nice and concise comment on the subject I saw in another Quest.

Hyacinthium said:
The vast majority of people do not find it enjoyable to play as a legitimately horrible person, even in fiction. I've read a bit about this topic over the years, but my main example would be that 92% of Mass Effect players will play (predominantly) as a Paragon over Renegade. That's from a developer's mouth and doesn't seem too different from general tendencies.

But to go a bit more into it, playing as a shitty asshole, scumbag, actually inhumane, Villian is very often inefficient and ineffective. It ends up sinking in towards boring or incompetent. The most pragmatic choices are ones that don't really lend well to being an actual bad guy. Not unless the person making/running the game has a borderline fetish that came only be satisfied via bullshit. Content like that is so insanely niche I'd recommend it be ran elsewhere.

Some readers get upset when they can't vote to just happily commit genocide. While talking in the thread about how much they love genocide. In ways that get way too close to mimicking actual genocide apologia. They go, Why aren't we torturing little girls and sending them to femicide camps? I want to play a Villian! Well, someone actually ran a quest about being that kind of villian once.

They got permanently banned. Their quest had hundreds of players and five voters tops. Everyone else ditched within the first three story posts.

In my experience as a writer and quest runner, it's hard to not only get people to vote in a way that would best fit a bad person, but to get them to actually do that and see the character as a shitrag. People are experts at trying to rationalize things, and yet still don't enjoy it if you successfully frame the protagonist/PC as ruining lives and doing horrific things. They feel punished, the bulk of players leave, and you're/I'm left with players upset that repugnant actions were written accordingly. Ooor there's 3(three) people left voting. Quests where players fight to be a Villian usually die.
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And no, deciding against letting Love off the leash is not "white knighting". There are sensible and prudent arguments both for and against doing this.
 
Naron said:
Seeing that this is being brought up again, I went to look for that nice and concise comment on the subject I saw in another Quest.



And no, deciding against letting Love off the leash is not "white knighting". There are sensible and prudent arguments both for and against doing this.
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honestly i'm rather neutral on the white fang, on one hand i sympathize with the issues they supposedly fight against and son't mind them attacking the SDC, on the other they attack civilians when under cinder/adam and independent of the two are still terrorists.
knowing more about the legal situation in vale would probably help cement my view of them but we just know so little about the political situation in general in RWBY.
also i thought he was complaining about Jaune/Weiss
 
Naron said:
And no, deciding against letting Love off the leash is not "white knighting". There are sensible and prudent arguments both for and against doing this.
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See, the thing is that I agree with all the arguments put forth, especially the ones about pure villainy for villainy sake being ineffective and inefficient, I might tend to overplay what I actually want sometimes on these subject, so, let me give my actual, factual, definition of white knighting, the one I actually use in my head:

It's when the players are doing an action that would be OOC for the one the character they play, not because doing this action is more efficient than the puppy punting one, or because it allows their character to grow morally and mentally, but because they want to play a lawful good paladin at all times, even when it makes sense to do a chaotic neutral action, yes, playing the actual immoral vilain who only punt puppies is indeed not actually great, but playing the all loving hero all the time also tends to get quite stale.

And playing the most in the most efficient way all the time just suck the fun out of the game too, for that matter, chaotic stupid is worthy of the stupid in its name, but *rational* is not always the correct answer, and some people forget that, there is a balance to find.

That doesn't change the fact that what I'm most interested in is actually the chance to kill Adam and derail all of Cinder's plan before they even begin.
 
Naron said:
Okay, so... you are aware that all of the given options are in-character for Binah in some form or other, yes? That I would veto anything that is actually OOC for her?
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Yeah, I know, I did get a bit carried away with the frustration due to the lawful good feeling of not letting Love go. We can be chaotic good, damnit! (And yes, as I said earlier, D&D would very much see this as chaotic good, its system has no problem with killing bandits)
 
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Nyarky said:
Yeah, I know, I did get a bit carried away with the frustration due to the lawful good feeling of not letting Love go. We can be chaotic good, damnit! (And yes, as I said earlier, D&D would very much see this as chaotic good, its system has no problem with killing bandits)
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To be honest, I assumed people were going to die if she goes out. Hence why it says mitigate death not prevent it. I just don't think that killing as many as she can find is productive which is what I assume will happen if we don't do this. It's much more useful for us to have people alive and aware of the power she can use. Particularly since I want as many rumors and stories going around as possible.
 
PluvioDragon said:
To be honest, I assumed people were going to die if she goes out. Hence why it says mitigate death not prevent it. I just don't think that killing as many as she can find is productive which is what I assume will happen if we don't do this. It's much more useful for us to have people alive and aware of the power she can use. Particularly since I want as many rumors and stories going around as possible.
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I support this, This is good.
love hearing the rumors about what happened at the dock that day, a bit proud of herself only to be Hit with: Whoever did that is bigger monster than every single white fang member combined.
 
kaillll said:
I support this, This is good.
love hearing the rumors about what happened at the dock that day, a bit proud of herself only to be Hit with: Whoever did that is bigger monster than every single white fang member combined.
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I'm more interested in getting the rumors going around circles we might want to engage in so that people can try and scale us off her and scare themselves. But that is also a valid story beat
 
Nyarky said:
Yeah, I know, I did get a bit carried away with the frustration due to the lawful good feeling of not letting Love go. We can be chaotic good, damnit! (And yes, as I said earlier, D&D would very much see this as chaotic good, its system has no problem with killing bandits)
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I do not really give much on D&D's alignment chart beyond as a broad way of classification, but I get what you mean.

That aside, stopping Love here is not so much preventing deaths as delaying the inevitable. Give Binah more time to entrench herself before people may start looking into her.
 
Naron said:
I do not really give much on D&D's alignment chart beyond as a broad way of classification, but I get what you mean.
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Oh don't worry, I do too, people trying to follow it religiously is how you get things like *lawful stupid*, *chaotic stupid*, *stupid evil* and the *delightful* implications of *always chaotic evil races* (it has to be noted that from what I know, the publishers are aware of the last one and did take some actions against it).

It's just that they do give an easy to use classification when it comes to broad strokes.
 
This choice is just choosing Do you want people die now or die later?
And the only point i'm going to make that is people dying later will cause even more death as the queen is taking control.
 
Ehhh, I mean. From my point of view, that's a lose-lose situation.

Queen WILL take control later. So why not try to prevent death and make less of a ruckus while we still can?
 
kaillll said:
Plus crippling the white fang now is a bit undesirable.
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Why? Nevermind the fact that the local group is made of the worst of them, meaning that killing them is a service to Sienna's more intelligent reign, it also throw Cinder's plans out if the window and forces her to act, which would increase the chance of a confrontation with us.

It considerably reduce the chance of the Breach happening, can give us reputation towards Roman if we kill Cinder for him and should let us have more time before the queen comes out to play.
 
Its because I believe, Adam hasnt arrived in Vale yet.

Attacking the whitefang now is just killing a bunch of fodders.
 
questioningmeme said:
Its because I believe, Adam hasnt arrived in Vale yet.

Attacking the whitefang now is just killing a bunch of fodders.
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I think around this time he's chilling around Forever Fall, where the Black trailer took place, watching his men get killed by Cinder and being conscripted to her cause. Or at least I assume that's where he is, considering Blake is hanging around Vale now.

That's still within teleporting distance, especially if Love gets one of the White Fang goons to tell her where their camp is!

Edit: Yeah, Yellow Trailer is chronologically the last one. White Fang is now (un)officially under Cinder's control.
 
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Nyarky said:
He's there, the white fang attacking dust shops is something Cinder order him to do. Given that they have begun… she should be there or at least in town, by the way.
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No the White Fang in the city are following Roman, seems to be under Adam's orders but there isn't any reason to believe he's actually in Vale right now, that's why when there is a White Fang meeting Roman and Neo are there but Adam isn't. The Dust shop raids seem to be coordinated by Roman too. Also you keep bringing up Adam being important to Cinder's plans, but given what we actually see there's no indication that Adam's death would make the White Fang stop helping her, in fact if she spins it right they might be just as ok with it. We never see evidence of dissent among them. Pulling Roman away probably has much more impact given that he's her active agent in the city. Honestly just introducing the unpredictable elements of two magical girls into the school will force her to change her plans given how much they relied on knowing how people would respond to things. Well that or her plan was fairly vague and she built it as she went, which seems likely now that I think about it. I don't remember the Dust being used in the Battle of Beacon which indicates Breach was her original plan and she had to change it when that didn't work.
Edit: The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced she was just winging it, we never see evidence of her having the kind of people reading to successfully predict things to the extent that she did. And to be frank her plan wasn't that complicated, so I think she made it up as she saw things change.

questioningmeme said:
Ehhh, I mean. From my point of view, that's a lose-lose situation.

Queen WILL take control later. So why not try to prevent death and make less of a ruckus while we still can?
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Yeah, she's going to show up whether or not we kill people here, so we might as well get something useful out of it. King and Queen are the ones that are basically certain, and suppressing them is always going to take some time.
 
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PluvioDragon said:
Pulling Roman away probably has much more impact given that he's her active agent in the city.
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Absolutely. Literally, Cinder would've had a MUCH harder time enacting her plan had it not been for Roman.
Like seriously. The guy was running around doing basically half of Cinder's plan with the other 50% being Adam (25%) and Cinder/Emerald/Mercury Trickery (25%).
 
questioningmeme said:
Absolutely. Literally, Cinder would've had a MUCH harder time enacting her plan had it not been for Roman.
Like seriously. The guy was running around doing basically half of Cinder's plan with the other 50% being Adam (25%) and Cinder/Emerald/Mercury Trickery (25%).
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Honestly I think Adam had even less impact beyond just "tell the White Fang to follow our instructions." Particularly given my current theory that she was playing it all by ear and the fact Adam didn't show up until the Battle of Beacon, which I've now realized given what we see she would have had to plan within a few days. To be honest though that doesn't surprise me, the only bit that relied on clever planning relied on a thing she had only recently found out and the rest was just timing. Roman was carrying the setup from what we see.
 
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