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I'm still not fully sure about this, but at this stage it's best just to post what I've got. Thanks go to @Quickshot0 and @ShadowAngelBeta for beta-reading, without which it wouldn't be as good.

Next up is Mato's continuing adventures in post-apocalypse-land, where I'm sure none of what you just found out will be in any way relevant.
 
[X] [Urgency] Go find her immediately.

There really isn't a good way to talk about it, but keeping Yuu waiting is pretty cruel. I don't think she took Rock's appearance very well.
 
[X] [Urgency] After school.
- [X] The park. It's nice and quiet.

I cast magic missile at the darkness!

I mean uh, this feels right but I am not at all certain.

[X] [Tactic] Be selfish and impulsive, "I miss Strength" sometimes that's the only place honesty can be found.
 
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[X] [Urgency] During the next break is fine.
There we go, a vote for every option.

No idea on tactics here though (I should really watch BRS)
 
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[X] [Urgency] Go find her immediately.

The main advantages of waiting are Mato that it gives Mato more time to mentally prepare herself, and hopefully she'll be in less trouble with the teachers, but I think any preparations will go out the window when they come face to face, and there's 0% chance Mato won't be in trouble after all this.
 
"Good," Mato said. She looked at Rock, who was nodding vigorously. "It started with Yuu. Over a decade ago, when she was in middle school..."

Kohata opened her mouth, and Mato held up her hand, cutting her off.
Yeah, that sentence would make someone double-take, being as Yuu is in middle school with 'em now, lol. Forgot that was part of her whole situation - mainly as I last saw this anime in 2010.

[X] [Urgency] Go find her immediately.

The world's toast in a few days anyway, so it's not like getting in trouble at school shall matter here, mostly. Let's try and patch up relationships as quick as possible.
 
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Just found this quest and it seems interesting.

I'm not you," Rock murmured. "And you're not me. Mato, you've never said those words. If you had–" She closed her eyes, as though the words were physically strangling her. "I think I would have tried to kill you. Not just beat sense into your head, but actually kill you. And myself, I guess."
Huh so BRS and the otherselves seem to work off Persona Shadow rules a bit. Makes sense since Shadows are the darker side of people that they hide away which is basically the definition for what the otherselves are. Does that mean Mako via the anime story basically made BRS into a persona?

[X] [Urgency] After school.
- [X] The park. It's nice and quiet.

Feel like we need time to put together our thoughts and rushing to do it during school wouldn't help since we're going to have to talk about both Mato's issue with Yuu not being Strength issue and BRS is now our 'real' sister and going to school. Both which I feel need time to be gone over and not having to worry about school issues
 
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Huh so BRS and the otherselves seem to work off Persona Shadow rules a bit. Makes sense since Shadows are the darker side of people that they hide away which is basically the definition for what the otherselves are. Does that mean Mako via the anime story basically made BRS into a persona?
From what Rock has said so far and what I remember from the previous Quest, it looks to me like BRS and the Otherselves work on reverse Shadow rules, in the sense that the "I am Thou and Thou art I" routine is the wrong answer in much the same way denying a Shadow is part of you is the wrong answer when confronting them.

Plus, the way Rock said it, it looks like Otherselves are different from Shadows on some fundamental level.

I'm not you," Rock murmured. "And you're not me. Mato, you've never said those words. If you had–" She closed her eyes, as though the words were physically strangling her. "I think I would have tried to kill you. Not just beat sense into your head, but actually kill you. And myself, I guess." Her eyes flew open again. "...we've changed. But I was never a part of you. That fear, that anger at our dad– at the world– you pushed it away, and something else dragged it back, like someone glueing pieces of our soul back together with mud. It stopped you from healing. I think."
"...I'm made of the fragments of Mato's soul that she didn't want," Rock said slowly. "They should have disintegrated. That's always what happens. It's what I've seen happening, everywhere but here, around this school. Mato, I don't have your memories, just flashes from the bits you didn't like, and a few instincts that don't make any sense now that I'm thinking clearly. I'm not sure I'm using the right words, and I'm not sure I remember it right. Kohachi–"

Something that was discarded, but for some reason was dragged back in before it could vanish naturally, incidentally preventing the natural process of recovering from trauma. Or they were dragged back in to prevent the recovery and Otherselves are an incidental byproduct.

BRS had Mato's anger and other negative feelings/memories and some instincts. Somehow BRS changed, possibly something to do with the fights and interactions she and Mato had over the previous two months, and became more "complete".

She was crying — the experience was new to her, but she understood the feeling. And she knew the cause. She was part of a greater whole; that was what they'd learned, her and Mato, together. The concept of 'self' was something she had yet to fully grasp. It was something she'd needed to learn.

Although it was the force of Mato's soul that held her together, she was near to being complete on her own; she could think, despite the crushing weight of the star above her head. The same was not true of her greater self. Mato was diffuse — she was the ground that Black Rock Shooter walked on, not a person in her own right.

Rock herself is weird by any standards. The only other example we have of an otherself appearing in the Real World and acting like a human being, in the BRS anime, is Strength, and she did that by switching places with Yuu. The way Rock manifested and how she talks about being nearly complete on her own sort of reminds me of Teddie as well, but he's also a very special case.
 
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Certainly there was quite a bit of confusion and worries expressed in this chapter.
One or two. I think Kohachi did quite well to recover her balance, all told, especially considering how little we actually told her. More than what was literally in the chapter — I didn't want to recap the entire anime — but much less than she would've preferred.

Oh, you mean Mato, Rock and Yomi. Yes, I suppose they might be a little off balance as well. That might be happening.
I mean uh, this feels right but I am not at all certain.
It's a valid vote. Will it, um, work...?

...Yuu is Mato's best friend, bar none, and that friendship isn't going to fray over something like this. It hurts being pushed away, no doubt, but just about any genuine attempt by Mato to make amends will suffice. Honesty is going to be appreciated.

This isn't really a vote you can fail; I want to make that clear. It's about how, precisely, you want to succeed. Status quo is a possible outcome, but yours isn't going to do that. Make a careful choice, and Yuu might find herself spending the next few weeks figuring out just what makes Rock tick... or perhaps simply getting to know them again, without any further secrets hanging between the group, would suffice.

It might be obvious already, but... I wouldn't be spending this much time on her friends if they weren't going to stay in the story.

There we go, a vote for every option.
I will bap you. No, just kidding, but if it ends up in a tie then Mato gets the casting vote.

No idea on tactics here though (I should really watch BRS)
You should!

There's an OVA, a TV series, and a... new TV series coming up this spring. The latter is obviously not relevant, except perhaps by happenstance. In general, they're all set in different timelines. There's also a game, at least two manga, and a song...

The song came first.

Anyhow, while I think the OVA has better characterization, this story is based on the anime. The characters are... flatter, there, which can be off-putting up front but turns out to be deliberate. You'll get a perfectly good feel for the characters from just the OVA, so I'd suggest starting there.

Mato is doing much better now.

The main advantages of waiting are Mato that it gives Mato more time to mentally prepare herself, and hopefully she'll be in less trouble with the teachers, but I think any preparations will go out the window when they come face to face, and there's 0% chance Mato won't be in trouble after all this.
I don't believe Mato is seen as a troublemaker, so they'll likely let this slide—once. Whether or not 'once' will be enough is largely up to you.

Yeah, that sentence would make someone double-take, being as Yuu is in middle school with 'em now, lol. Forgot that was part of her whole situation - mainly as I last saw this anime in 2010.
We double-checked that before posting, and to be clear, Mato and the others are in high-school. They were in middle school during the OVA, which is likely where that confusion came from.

When Yuu met Saya, Yuu was in middle school while Saya was in high school. That's why Yuu is as small as she is, as... unfortunately, while she's reasonably alive and non-ghost-like, the fact is she's... well. A ghost. She hasn't grown a millimeter in the last decade, and I doubt she ever will.

Or, as Kohachi puts it, she's "Underfoot".

The world's toast in a few days anyway, so it's not like getting in trouble at school shall matter here, mostly. Let's try and patch up relationships as quick as possible.
Beware of assumptions.

Just found this quest and it seems interesting.
Hoping to keep it that way! It'll take a little while before the mechanics all come together, so thus far it's mostly character introductions.

Feel like we need time to put together our thoughts and rushing to do it during school wouldn't help since we're going to have to talk about both Mato's issue with Yuu not being Strength issue and BRS is now our 'real' sister and going to school. Both which I feel need time to be gone over and not having to worry about school issues
As the update states, urgency has a certain value all of its own. I'm not trying to talk you into anything, just pointing out that Yuu doesn't care how well put-together Mato acts. She just wants her to be there.

The probable consequences of skipping half a class, then barging into the neighbouring classroom only to kidnap one of your friends, on the other hand, could be quite amusing. For us, I mean; not so much for Mato. She'd certainly be grounded.

Huh so BRS and the otherselves seem to work off Persona Shadow rules a bit. Makes sense since Shadows are the darker side of people that they hide away which is basically the definition for what the otherselves are. Does that mean Mako via the anime story basically made BRS into a persona?
From what Rock has said so far and what I remember from the previous Quest, it looks to me like BRS and the Otherselves work on reverse Shadow rules, in the sense that the "I am Thou and Thou art I" routine is the wrong answer in much the same way denying a Shadow is part of you is the wrong answer when confronting them.

Plus, the way Rock said it, it looks like Otherselves are different from Shadows on some fundamental level.
Rock herself is weird by any standards. The only other example we have of an otherself appearing in the Real World and acting like a human being, in the BRS anime, is Strength, and she did that by switching places with Yuu. The way Rock manifested and how she talks about being nearly complete on her own sort of reminds me of Teddie as well, but he's also a very special case.
I love this line of speculation, and it's a pity I can't add much to it. Perhaps some baselines to go off...

This is a crossover with SMT:Nocturne, as you already know. Nocturne itself is an (SMT-internal) fusion of several timelines, among them Devil Survivors 2 and Persona 1 through 4. 5 would likely be included, I'm just not aware of any evidence that it exists in the same setting.

Midori from Devil Survivors 1 doesn't show up in Nocturne itself, but one of her 'pets' does, so we've got that as well. Essentially, Nocturne is Atlus' attempt at creating a single unified cosmology for their universe, although it's a cosmology consisting of multiple reality bubbles.

For the most part you don't need to care about this. Yes, the Persona characters are in some manner around; no, they won't be showing up, with one significant exception it would be best to ignore as long as possible. It's safer that way. However, when it comes to worlds like this–

I try my best to construct a unified, simple set of rules, which I can then go off of for the rest of the story. Fortunately, I've been gestating this set for the last decade or so. So Occam's Razor applies, although perhaps not in the way you might hope for. There is an explanation for everything you're seeing, even if the explanation might sometimes be "Nyarlathotep did it for reasons of his own".

...

All of that being said? Rock isn't operating on 'reverse shadow rules'. That would be this girl, who right at present is trying to boil a can of water.
 
There is an explanation for everything you're seeing, even if the explanation might sometimes be "Nyarlathotep did it for reasons of his own".
Hey I was very pointedly trying to not to go 'That sounds like something Nyarly would do for shits and giggles' when the characters started speculating about how this situation with the Otherselves happened and why it seems confined to the school. Cause seriously BRS feels like it's just missing a blue butterfly to be another 'game' between Nyarly and Doctor Phil.

Maybe the Blue Bird ate the butterfly when we weren't looking? :\/
 
This is a crossover with SMT:Nocturne, as you already know. Nocturne itself is an (SMT-internal) fusion of several timelines, among them Devil Survivors 2 and Persona 1 through 4. 5 would likely be included, I'm just not aware of any evidence that it exists in the same setting.
Rise and Naoto, at least, definitely exist in the Persona 5 timeline, since you can see Rise in posters and TVs in the background, and Akechi is called the second detective prince meaning there was a first one.

Whether the events of P4 (and P3) happened in P5's timeline is anyone's guess. There's arguments in favor (the aforementioned cameos) and against (if P3 and P4 happened, then where the fuck were Mitsuru and her Shadow Operatives during all of P5?) so it boils down to the author's preference.
 
Whether the events of P4 (and P3) happened in P5's timeline is anyone's guess. There's arguments in favor (the aforementioned cameos) and against (if P3 and P4 happened, then where the fuck were Mitsuru and her Shadow Operatives during all of P5?) so it boils down to the author's preference.

Probably busy dealing with other shit. P3, 4, and 5 all have interrelations with each other that make it clear they exist in the same setting, but it's a big world. Hell, even just Japan is a pretty big country. Small groups can't investigate every threat that pops up too quickly, and those who can interact directly with the realms of human consciousness like persona users can are rare indeed.

It's a fantastic subject for fanfiction though. Because it makes for a bunch of very easy and delightfully complexifying 'what-if' scenarios.
 
Probably busy dealing with other shit.
Amusingly P5 Strikers has a ready-made excuse for why the P3/4 cast aren't involved with their plot - the events are occurring all over japan, so fanfics can just have 'em deal with OC villains and never run into the P5 cast. As for the main plot of P5 itself, it probably boils down to 'focus was on P5 cast, so nothing but cameo from prior games' coupled with 'could not get there in time/didn't realise it was Persona Stuff' for the prior protag groups in-verse.

But yeah, I didn't know SMT Nocturne involved the Persona franchise. Was under the impression Persona was a separate universe to the main SMT timeline.
 
Probably busy dealing with other shit. P3, 4, and 5 all have interrelations with each other that make it clear they exist in the same setting, but it's a big world. Hell, even just Japan is a pretty big country. Small groups can't investigate every threat that pops up too quickly, and those who can interact directly with the realms of human consciousness like persona users can are rare indeed.
I find it hard to believe that the events of P5 could have flown under their radar. Maybe the mental shutdown phenomena could have been dismissed as not worth investigating because there's nothing obviously supernatural or clearly connected to Shadows/Persona, but the Phantom Thieves were in the media spotlight after Madarame and Kaneshiro, and the Change of Heart they cause is at least suspicious.

I find it easier to believe they tried to investigate, but between Shido's conspiracy making their lives harder, Yaldabaoth's likely interference, and a lack of access to the Metaverse (if they even knew it exists), their investigation just didn't go anywhere.

You're absolutely right it makes for excellent fanfic material, though. There's a lot of places and ways to insert them into the plot and make it significantly deviate from the canon rails.
 
It gets even more complicated in the crossover universe here. Like you said, there's a lot of things happening, all over Japan–

That's somewhat a consequence of the upcoming Conception, but no-one except Hikawa would know that. Regardless, there's a lot. And while the Change of Heart is certainly suspicious, in this universe it's not all that unusual, and there are yet more dramatic events happening at the same time. Easter Corporation would have an interest in shutting down any tales of mind control, there's a rampant plague of depression affecting only children, and so on and so forth.

The world does need to be reset. If it isn't, then it's not clear that human civilisation would survive the ensuing breakdown of normal rules. And that's not even considering the demons.
 
Conception is the end of the world and then one human who meets the criteria and can reach the center can make a wish for a new world. It's worth noting this wish does not have to be the old world back, but can be something substantially different.

In Devil Survivor 2 the world also ends and can be re-wished via a some what different way, it's still end of the world though, but a different kind.


So if I were to guess, resetting probably means something like that.
 
canon examples of possible worlds to wish for. World of Strength where you fight everything to be the bestest and most powerful.

World of Isolation where everyone is in their own little soap bubbles that don't interact with each other cause dealing with other people is too much.

World of Equality which is super communisms to make everyone equal in wealth, social status, and even skill and personality iirc.

And finally World of Meritocracy which is basically you get what you deserve for your work with no political bullshit which while nice in concept probably turns into being no different from World of Strength's hell since the strongest do the most and therefore deserve the most making the strongest the rulers.
 
- [ ] A concert. There's a popular new idol holding a live today, and Yuu mentioned her before.
...this wouldn't happen to be, say, Utau, would it?

...only one way to find out, I suppose; but also a concert seems like maybe a bad environment for talky-talks.

...

fuckit let's do science

[X] [Urgency] After school.
- [X]A concert. There's a popular new idol holding a live today, and Yuu mentioned her before.
 
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