No, SV, You Are the Forest! (Riot Quest)

[X][Predators] Allow them to remain
[X][Action] Research the Soothing Tree (Psionic)
[X][Focus] Grow Collector Tree
[X][Focus] Grow Collector Tree x2
[X][Focus] Grow Collector Tree x3
 
Right so some math-
We get X Focus actions that gives X successes each where X is the magnitude of the forest, currently 3.

To raise the magnitude of the forest to 4 we need 200 successes. It thus makes sense to only raise the magnitude when we get more of an increase than growing more collector trees.

3*(Ctrees+20)<4*Ctrees
Solving for Ctrees gives us Ctrees of 60. That means once we hit 60 collector trees we get quicker growth from upping magnitude, before that we get quicker growth from more collector trees.
I think this is perhaps too reductive. Part of getting to Magnitude 4 is that we get an additional Focus action, but surely that is not the ONLY part. I imagine that there are other factors at play that are going to have more impact on things. Recall the original definition of Magnitude:
The higher the Magnitude of the Forest, the harder it is to damage more critial assets, the more resources the Forest can draw upon, the more Features are found within it, and the more resources the Forest requires to sustain itself.

The base Magnitude is zero. Each Magnitude above that allows the thread to decide upon one action each turn to receive the 'focus' of the Forest, providing automatic successes to that action.
So I don't know if we can just look at the raw calculation for successes from focus actions and make decisions purely based off of that; it seems like it would be neglecting a bunch of other important (albeit more difficult to evaluate) things.

The more collector trees we have the quicker we can turn and use a focus action to do something like grow the worm or grow more shield trees.

Basically thanks to collector trees our focus actions are most effecient for growing more collector trees and than later growing the forest and specialist trees as needed. Any research or other such tasks are best done by using our [Action]
I broadly agree.

Though to extend on this, collector trees right now mean that focus actions are more efficient spent growing ANYTHING - collector trees, other special trees, the worm, the forest as a whole - as opposed to focusing elsewhere. It is still efficient to use our Focus action for a different growth task; it is just that Collector trees are also our most immediate and scalable investment vehicle, so the opportunity cost of not working on them is that we forfeit the future resources they would have otherwise produced. Though to be fair, we can't spend resources if we are dead, so so for a sufficiently urgent crisis that cost might be worth it.
 
[X][Predators] Allow them to remain
[X][Action] Research the Soothing Tree (Psionic)
[X][Focus] Try to reach out to the first Ship.
[X][Focus] Research the Reflecting Tree (Crystal)
[X][Focus] Research the Shaping Tree (Crystal)
 
Anyone else concerned that if we focus on forest growth and growing collector trees too much we'll lose sight of the bigger picture and won't survive long enough to make use of the bonus resources?
I mean, we have people on shields, and they already get more autosuccesses than a single focus action would give them, it is turn 2 and we have 24 successes stored in case that is insufficient, and it is only turn 2 so I am not worried. The bigger picture is that the more we can do each turn the better prepared we will be to face any future threat.
 
[][Action] Those Ships are scary. Erect the Shield!
Gonna keep shields up.

[X][Action] Try to reach out to the first Ship.
We have enough Heart Trees on shields. I want to help the Mind Trees do this.

[X][Predators] Allow them to remain
Friends! Though, christ, another tech path? Our Mind Trees are going in a dozen different directions as it stands!

[X][Focus] Grow Collector Tree
[X][Focus] Grow Collector Tree x2
[X][Focus] Grow Collector Tree x3
I'd like to get a big chunk of these built up so we can then start plowing tons of Focus autosuccesses into other kinds of Growth projects.
Anyone else concerned that if we focus on forest growth and growing collector trees too much we'll lose sight of the bigger picture and won't survive long enough to make use of the bonus resources?
The most efficient thing we can be doing with our Focus actions is growing things. Growing Collector trees first means that growing other things will be faster later. I and other Heart Trees are putting shields up to prevent us from being overrun in the meantime, but I really hope our Mind Trees can coordinate and make contact with the science ship this turn.

[X] convenience bucket for grouping non-winning Focuses
 
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I think this is perhaps too reductive. Part of getting to Magnitude 4 is that we get an additional Focus action, but surely that is not the ONLY part. I imagine that there are other factors at play that are going to have more impact on things. Recall the original definition of Magnitude:

So I don't know if we can just look at the raw calculation for successes from focus actions and make decisions purely based off of that; it seems like it would be neglecting a bunch of other important (albeit more difficult to evaluate) things.


I broadly agree.

Though to extend on this, collector trees right now mean that focus actions are more efficient spent growing ANYTHING - collector trees, other special trees, the worm, the forest as a whole - as opposed to focusing elsewhere. It is still efficient to use our Focus action for a different growth task; it is just that Collector trees are also our most immediate and scalable investment vehicle, so the opportunity cost of not working on them is that we forfeit the future resources they would have otherwise produced. Though to be fair, we can't spend resources if we are dead, so so for a sufficiently urgent crisis that cost might be worth it.
True there is a bonus to additional magnitude, but looking at it from a growth side that is how thing break down. More likely with some trees using actions on the forest we will dive to mag 4 once we hit 20 ish collector trees. As it is I support going collector tree growth for focus because as you mention they make it easier to do other growth later on. For example we get to mag 4 and 16 collector trees that gives us +20 to growth or enough for 2 or 4 trees depending on the type so we can boost other special trees quickly which in turn provide successes/open new actions elsewhere.

Really until we get collector tree equivalents in other categories focus may just very well be kept on growth actions
 
Communication Actions

[ ][Action] Try to reach out to the first Ship.
-Requires 10 successes
-What is this? What were those? Why are you poking us?
Hey @Raising Kittens, I believe you mentioned on discord that our previous successes were stored for reaching out to the science vessel, but you haven't written that down here in the voting options.

[X][Predators] Allow them to remain
[X][Action] Try to reach out to the first Ship.
[X][Focus] Those Ships are scary. Erect the Shield!
[X][Focus] Those Ships are scary. Erect the Shield! x2
[X][Focus] Those Ships are scary. Erect the Shield! x3
 
[X][Predators] Allow them to remain
In the long term they may cause damage to our ecosystem of living things if they grow out of hand. In addition they may draw attention from new people who hunt them down and thus find us since they live on us. it may also eventually draw the attention of the predator that destroyed their original home. However in the short term, they provide a valuable deterrent against these new people trying to mess with us.

[X][Action] Grow Sharding Tree

We only have one at the moment and considering the situation we need some defensive measures beyond shielding. Eventually they will figure out our shield and get past them, having other measures available at that time is invaluable.

[X][Focus] Grow Collector Tree

That said, one focus on the collector tree is rightfully warranted because it is garunteed to give us a new tree.

[X][Focus] Try to reach out to the first Ship.

We need to establish communication and establish some sort of deal. Currently we are just a resource to be mercilessly plundered to them. They have an entire space faring civilization to use. If they come at us full force for our secrets, we lose. It is better to establish communication and try to satisfy their greed by drip feeding them the info they want so we can develop our defensive and offensive measures in the mean time. This action is worth it so long as we can limit how much resources they throw at us in any way. Worse case scenario is the fact we have intelligence incites them even further and they throw even more resources at us sooner. However they have already escalated efforts after seeing our forcefield. i suspect further escalation as a forgone conclusion barring some sort of intervention. This is a risk, but it is a warranted one.

[X][Focus] Research the Soothing Tree (Psionic)

The action granted by this is a critical tool to prevent further escalation from our new visitors and for future visitors in the future. Over any other power, the action granted by gaining this tree is the most relevant to our current situation. growing collector trees so that once we unlock the option to grow this tree we can build as many as possible is important as well.



As an aside i see many people going in full bore on just going all focus actions solely in the field their player tree specializes in. I feel like this is dangerous and ignores the big picture of what is currently going on. As such i have added my reasoning behind each action. My goal with my choices is to deal with the situation at hand in preparation for the future.

For root trees i recommend growing collector trees to prep for growing soothing trees and sharding trees to prep for things escalating. Because even if we succeed in finishing research on the soothing trees this turn, we will need to grow them the turn after and only the turn after that will we have the soothing option. This means we have three turns for matters to escalate to a dangerous degree. Establishing new and powerful defensive measures is important.

for heart trees shielding and storing resources is completely worthwhile.

for mind trees i recommend splitting focus on researching the soothing tree and attempting to establish communication with the humans for the reasons i have stated up above.


hope this kinda effort post is useful to at least some of you.
 
Hey @Raising Kittens, I believe you mentioned on discord that our previous successes were stored for reaching out to the science vessel, but you haven't written that down here in the voting options.

Fixing.

Fixed. 4/10 successes.

@Raising Kittens in the action list the grow the forest action says it requires 200 successes, but in the dice log it says 100, which is correct?

200, edited.
 
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[X][Predators] Allow them to remain
[X][Action] Those Ships are scary. Erect the Shield!
[X][Focus] Grow Collector Tree
[X][Focus] Grow Collector Tree x2
[X][Focus] Grow Collector Tree x3
 
I don't know about the other root trees, but while I'm obviously dedicated to growing our forest to a grand level, another major focus for me is growing the worm alongside us.
 
[X][Action] Attempt to store resources against future need.
They may try to test our shields properly this time, but I'll do one more round of banking I think.

[X][Predators] Allow them to remain
We're sorely lacking on offense, perhaps they can one day be encouraged to help?

[X][Focus] Grow Collector Tree
[X][Focus] Grow Collector Tree x2
[X][Focus] Grow Collector Tree x3
Invest early to take advantage of the interstellar interest rates!
 
[X][Predators] Allow them to remain
[X][Action] Grow Collector Tree
[X][Focus] Grow Collector Tree
[X][Focus] Grow Collector Tree x2
[X][Focus] Grow Collector Tree x3
 
I don't know about the other root trees, but while I'm obviously dedicated to growing our forest to a grand level, another major focus for me is growing the worm alongside us.
And that would be a good thing to throw some actions at since that will give unknown benefits. Use focus to grow collector trees in anticipation of growing the forest, worm (it looks like it has more than one level) and other special trees. So some roots could grow the worm and other roots could grow some other special trees while some grow more collector trees.
 
[X][Action] Try to reach out to the first Ship.
[X][Predators] Allow them to remain
 
@Raising Kittens
Is it just the first 3 trees I can pick from to be or can I wait and pick out one of the later trees being developed?
If I can do I need to pick a tree b4 I am allowed to vote for actions?

It's just the first 3 trees that can be picked from. As you participate, you unlock the ability upgrade your tree. The exact nature of the available upgrades will depend upon the nature of the Special Trees grown, techs researched, and the number of votes you've participated in.

If the vote threshold is met, but the unlocks aren't there, the upgrade is delayed.
 
[X][Predators] Allow them to remain
[X][Action] Grow the Worm
[X][Focus] Grow Collector Tree
[X][Focus] Try to reach out to the first Ship.
[X][Focus] Research the Soothing Tree (Psionic)
 
[X][Action] Research the Hoop Tree (Magnetic)
[X][Focus] Grow Sharding Tree
[X][Focus] Grow Sharding Tree x2
[X][Focus] Grow Sharding Tree x3
 
I don't know about the other root trees, but while I'm obviously dedicated to growing our forest to a grand level, another major focus for me is growing the worm alongside us.
Here is one useful metric to consider. Each collector tree pays itself off in 4 turns. If you think we are going to take more than 4 turns to finish growing something, then we are much better of pouring growth into a Collector Tree, and then using that to grow the "something", rather than growing it ourselves directly.


Of course, that is only if you consider things from the perspective of the Forest acting as a whole. From the perspective of individual voters, investing in collector trees doesn't guarantee that the increased capacity will be turned to your desired goal later. If you have strong feelings about what the right Growth action is but don't think you would be able to get the thread to spend Focus on it, then I can see doing your own thing, even when Collector Trees would theoretically be better in terms of overall successes generated.
 
[X][Predators] Allow them to remain
[X][Action] Research the Shaping Tree (Crystal)
[X][Focus] Grow Collector Tree
[X][Focus] Grow Collector Tree x2
[X][Focus] Grow Collector Tree x3
 
[X][Predators] Allow them to remain
They eat soft things. We are not soft things. They may find sanctuary beneath our boughs.

[X][Action] Those Ships are scary. Erect the Shield!
Heart trees will buy the rest of you time to solve this current issue.

[X][Focus] Grow Collector Tree
[X][Focus] Research the incoming Ship. It's just sitting there, waiting. Menacingly. (???)
[X][Focus] Research the Soothing Tree (Psionic)
Frankly, we need an offensive option. I'm not saying we stop the Collector Tree snowball, just slow it's roll for a turn or two.
If we research the ship, we can maybe -hopefully- get ourselves our own space-capable craft.
 
[X][Predators] Allow them to remain
[X][Action] Those Ships are scary. Erect the Shield!
[X][Focus] Try to reach out to the first Ship.
[X][Focus] Grow Collector Tree
[X][Focus] Grow Collector Tree x2
 
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