No, SV, You Are the Forest! (Riot Quest)

[X][Tree] Heart Tree
[X][Action] Attempt to store resources against future need.
[X][Focus] Attempt to store resources against future need.
[X][Focus] Attempt to store resources against future need x2.
[X][Focus] Attempt to store resources against future need x3.

Is this the right vote format?

E. Saw the example, this is the right format. So this will give 2d6 to storing resources and add 3 votes to the [focus] voting pool. Top 3 [focus] actions will be enacted by [The Forest] and will have 3 auto successes + special trees bonuses. All other [focus] actions are discarded. Did I get it right?
 
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Is this the right vote format?
Not quite. You can cast up to three separate Focus votes. If you want to do the same thing multiple times in Focus, you'd do it like this:
[X][Focus] Attempt to store resources against future need.
[X][Focus] Attempt to store resources against future need. x2
[X][Focus] Attempt to store resources against future need. x3
But other than that, you're fine. Welcome to the forest, fellow Heart-tree!
 
Some notes about action economy. I'll only be discussing the features that directly impact efficiency here; stuff like unlocking new technologies is outside the scope of this post, even though in truth that would almost certainly include things that impact efficiency as well.



By default, each player gets on average 1 success on their action, assuming they are working within their specialty. Working outside their specialty cuts that in half, so it is usually inadvisable for obvious reasons.

By default, focus actions give 3 successes, which is on par with the combined abilities of 3 players.

Magnetic Tree (Magnetic) x4: Metallic threads wind their way through crystalline branches and leaves, allowing it to generate a magnetic field. The Forest may choose to greatly empower this field, allowing it to stop attacks from reaching the Forest in the first place. Unlocks the Shield action, and provides one automatic success to that action per Magnetic Tree. Requires 10 Growth successes per tree.
Our four magnetic trees each give +1 success to the Shield action.

+1 success to an action is not to be understated. 1 success is normally all that a single tree can manage on its own in the first place! So getting a +1 on an action literally doubles the impact there. Given that we have FOUR such trees, that means that our shield actions are massively easier than they would otherwise be; with each player pulling the weight of five.

As a particular note, I'd like to mention that this makes the Shield action especially accessible to players acting outside of their specialty. Normally, a tree deciding to do that loses 50% of it's effectiveness (1 -> 0.5 successes average), but here we only lose 10% effectiveness (5 -> 4.5 successes average). In other words, the Shield action basically doesn't care what kind of tree you are.

Corollary: if we really need defenses, having everyone dogpile Shield is remarkably reasonable. Well, as long as all we want to do is hide under a nice turtle-shell. Obviously there are many classes of problems that such an approach doesn't exactly solve.

Collector Tree (Crystal) x1: This tree serves to collect some small measure of the energy put out by the Sun, its leaves so dark they almost glow as they drink in the light. Every Focus action dedicated to Growth actions receives one additional automatic success per Collector Tree. Requires 10 Growth successes per tree.
This tree gives +1 success to Growth Focus actions. This means that:
  • Right now, is is an extra 33% more efficient to spend Focus actions on Growth than anything else. Unless we have a compelling reason to do otherwise, I think that this serves as good motivation to typically keep focus actions within this category.
  • Each Collector Tree itself takes 10 successes to grow, and then gives +1 success to each Growth focus action. If we spend 5/6ths of our focus actions on Growth, that means it would take us 4 turns after one is grown for a Collector Tree to fully pay for itself (12 focus actions, with 10 in the growth category), after which we start seeing an effective surplus.
Sharding Tree (Crystal) x1: This tree serves to protect other Trees by absorbing incoming damage first, protecting both trees newly grown and those still growing. If it is destroyed, it detonates, assaulting whomever attacking it with a new Defense roll, utilizing every Heart Tree in the Forest to provide the effect and an additional bonus success. Requires 10 Growth successes per tree.
This tree has the very nice effect of shielding other trees, but I won't go into that here. Instead I wanted to mention the efficiency of this tree when used for offensive purposes - that is, how good is this tree's detonation for turning growth successes into Defensive rolls?

I'm actually not sure how to read "utilizing every Heart Tree in the Forest to provide the effect and an additional bonus success". @Raising Kittens - could you clarify here?
  • Do the Heart Trees use one dice (the basics every tree gets), or two (since they are working within their specialty)?
  • Is it one additional bonus success TOTAL, or one per Heart Tree?
Depending on the answers here, the average output can be as low as 17.5 successes, or as high as 66 successes. For an investment of 10 successes, this seems a pretty good payoff, ESPECIALLY if we are on the high end of this scale rather than the low end.

We don't have any other attacks to compare it to right now, but just based on dice this is a pretty damn good option.

[ ][Action] Research the Scoop Tree (Magnetic)
-An alternative application of magnetic fields, the Scoop Tree improves the efficacy of growth actions, by proactively adjusting magnetic fields to reach out and obtain charged particles.
-Requires 10 Research successes.
It is not entirely clear what "efficacy of growth actions" means; we would have to see the tree. But if it provides automatic successes like the Magnetic Tree, this could be extremely powerful. Especially while we don't have offensive options, basically all root trees are doing growth actions, which means we are looking at 20+ growth actions a turn.

[ ][Action] Research the Hoop Tree (Magnetic)
-Yet another application of magnetic fields, the Hoop Tree unlocks a Survival action, allowing for resources to be stored against future need. Automatically applies one die to that action each turn.
-Requires 10 Research successes.
While it may be worth building this for the tech unlock, I'd like to note that 1 free die a turn is not especially impressive. I don't see us wanting to build more of this tree after we get the first one and it's corresponding tech.

Recall that 1 die is 0.5 successes. But 0.5 successes really isn't much.
  • Compare this to a Magnetic Tree, which gives 1 bonus success per each Growth Focus action; even with is only taking one Growth focus a turn, that ends up giving twice Hoop Tree's bonus.
  • Think about it in terms of an investment. It takes 10 successes to get this tree built, then it will take 20 turns for this investment to recoup itself.
[ ][Action] Research the Shaping Tree (Crystal)
-Crystals aren't particularly fluid, but their interiors can be adjusted to mimic that of other trees as the need arises. This tree allows for other trees to take up arms in defense of the Forest. Up to one Defense Action per Forest Magnitude per turn gains one extra die per Shaping Tree.
If I'm reading this right, each Shaping Tree would currently produces up to +3 dice per turn, or +1.5 successes. I guess that is a better multiplier than the Hoop Tree, but keeping in mind that we presumably won't need defense actions EVERY turn, I don't know if I'm especially impressed.
 
This analysis post is great! Thank you for the rundown.
Our four magnetic trees each give +1 success to the Shield action.

+1 success to an action is not to be understated. 1 success is normally all that a single tree can manage on its own in the first place! So getting a +1 on an action literally doubles the impact there. Given that we have FOUR such trees, that means that our shield actions are massively easier than they would otherwise be; with each player pulling the weight of five.
Hrm. I read this differently; I didn't read it as "every voter is multiplied by five," I read it as "when the Forest takes the Shield action, its dice pool is increased by four autosuccesses." So currently, with six voters, assuming all of us are heart trees, it would be 12d6 + 4 autosuccesses, for an average of ten successes. Basically, my reading of the mechanics is "each tree contribute to an action, but there aren't six separate Shield actions, the forest as a whole takes 1 Shield action, with a dice pool and bonuses determined by the trees voting for it."
 
Yeah, magnetic trees are almost certainly a flat bonus, not a multiplier. Any multipliers on our personal actions would be monstrously powerful this early.
 
I've read special trees as bonuses to [forest] action and players' focuses, not players' actions.
 
Here is a tally where I grouped all of the [Focus] actions that aren't currently winning into one bucket, to make it easier to just look at the [Actions].

Observations: the only research we are currently on-track to finish this turn is "Research the Empty Veil power (Void)". We're close to successfully reaching out to the Predators, and unlikely to finish anything else except growing Collector trees.
Adhoc vote count started by picklepikkl on Oct 2, 2020 at 11:39 AM, finished with 146 posts and 94 votes.

I've read special trees as bonuses to [forest] action and players' focuses, not players' actions.
It changes from tree to tree. The Collector tree is specifically for Focus actions devoted to growth, but the Magnetic tree seems to be for any Shield action.
 
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So currently, with six voters, assuming all of us are heart trees, it would be 12d6 + 4 autosuccesses
Nono, please don't write it like that. We are not getting 12d6 successes. We are getting (12d2-12) successes, or 12d{0,1} successes, or 12d{0,0,0,1,1,1} successes. 12d6 have a well established meaning, and it is NOT "12 rolls of a d6 with values of 4+ counting as 1 success".

I read it as "when the Forest takes the Shield action, its dice pool is increased by four autosuccesses." So currently, with six voters, assuming all of us are heart trees, it would be 12d6 + 4 autosuccesses, for an average of ten successes. Basically, my reading of the mechanics is "each tree contribute to an action, but there aren't six separate Shield actions, the forest as a whole takes 1 Shield action, with a dice pool and bonuses determined by the trees voting for it."
...I can believe that. That would make Shield actions a lot less impactful, huh.

It would also mean that additional Magnetic trees are pretty wimpy; +1 flat success to a single specific action honestly doesn't impress.
 
I've read special trees as bonuses to [forest] action and players' focuses, not players' actions.
[X][Tree] Mind Tree

What's the current research look like? Not sure where to throw my weight.
the three current research topics with more than 5 voters are:
research the empty veil power with 11 voters/10required sucesses(about a 70% chance of getting it already by my math)
and research the hoop tree with 6 voters out of 10 required successes, making it extremely unlikely to be completed this turn unless you and 3 or more of your friends care a whole awful lot.

edit, sorry for quoting the first guy, draft didn't delete properly
edited because I misread the tally, thank you pickle
 
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I'll go for communication then, my pair of dice is more likely to clinch that.
[X][Tree] Mind Tree


[X][Action] Try to reach out to something.
-[X][Action] The Predators. Requires 5 successes.
 
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I'll go for communication then, my pair of dice is more likely to clinch that.

[X][Action] Try to reach out to something.
-[X][Action] The Predators. Requires 5 successes.
I think you need to put your tree type in the same vote? Not sure how kittens is automating the tree type assignments to be honest, but talliers will only look at your most recent voting post.
 
[X][Tree] Root Tree

[X][Action] Grow the Forest.

[X][Focus] Grow the Forest.
[X][Focus] Grow the Forest. x2
[X][Focus] Grow the Forest. x3

I will grow trees, forever.
 
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[X][Tree] Mind Tree
-When you vote for a Research or Communication action, an extra 1d6 will be added to the dice pool.

This can only end well.


[X][Tree] Heart Tree
[X][Action] Attempt to store resources against future need.
[X][Focus] Attempt to store resources against future need.
[X][Focus] Attempt to store resources against future need x2.
[X][Focus] Attempt to store resources against future need x3.

Is this the right vote format?

E. Saw the example, this is the right format. So this will give 2d6 to storing resources and add 3 votes to the [focus] voting pool. Top 3 [focus] actions will be enacted by [The Forest] and will have 3 auto successes + special trees bonuses. All other [focus] actions are discarded. Did I get it right?

[X][Tree] Mind Tree

What's the current research look like? Not sure where to throw my weight.

[X][Tree] Root Tree

[X][Action] Grow the Forest.

[X][Focus] Grow the Forest.
[X][Focus] Grow the Forest. x2
[X][Focus] Grow the Forest. x3

I will grow trees, forever.

You all have been added to the Registry! Which is now also a spreadsheet in a separate file. No, you don't get to see it.

Voting closes in roughly six hours!
 
I am really excited for this turn, we have a good chance of getting 2 more collector trees. which would mean 6 successes per focus growth action, if we do get 2 more collector trees this turn, then keeping our current pace for two more turns would mean that we could grow any of our current special trees with one focus growth action. Collector trees scale really well, since collector trees provide bonuses to growing collector trees.
 
I am really excited for this turn, we have a good chance of getting 2 more collector trees. which would mean 6 successes per focus growth action, if we do get 2 more collector trees this turn, then keeping our current pace for two more turns would mean that we could grow any of our current special trees with one focus growth action. Collector trees scale really well, since collector trees provide bonuses to growing collector trees.

Unless they harvest our trees. Which I totally expect to happen.
 
Unless they harvest our trees. Which I totally expect to happen.
sounds like a problem for non-Root Trees. Root trees currently have no specialty actions to deal with that, and being able to grow more trees faster will be very useful to everyone later. The faster we get our collector tree production going the sooner they can start paying for themselves vie increased productivity.
 
Eh I don't blame other heart trees gettin the shield up, personally though I think they're just here to study us. They don't really know what we are so just figurin that out will take most of their time instead of harvesting weird space trees.
If they decide to worship us while we go full Cookie Monster collecting resources I ain't gonna stop em :V
 
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Unless there's a surge in the next two hours, we're unlikely to get the successes necessary to contact anyone, which is why I changed my vote to putting shields up; I'd like to hold them off for a little bit while we prepare ourselves and while players learn the game.

The spread of our efforts is a little subpar, but hopefully RK is nice and isn't gonna punish us for not having mastered the coordination issues of a riot quest on literally the first turn.
 
[X][Tree] Mind Tree

[X][Action] Research Elder Trees
[X][Focus] Grow Collector Tree
[X][Focus] Grow Collector Tree x2
[X][Focus] Grow Collector Tree x3

Edit: thanks @wrecksalot for letting me know to fix it.
 
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Unless there's a surge in the next two hours, we're unlikely to get the successes necessary to contact anyone, which is why I changed my vote to putting shields up; I'd like to hold them off for a little bit while we prepare ourselves and while players learn the game.

The spread of our efforts is a little subpar, but hopefully RK is nice and isn't gonna punish us for not having mastered the coordination issues of a riot quest on literally the first turn.

At least we are starting the exponential growth.
 
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