LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
Will the scoobies still be on board with a plan that basically involves killing the entire initiative?
Successor (BTVS)
- Thread starter DeAnno
- Start date
- Mature
They might have time to get Adam running to kill them before Tapparich shows up. Honestly I think the Initiative is pretty screwed either way. If we don't frame them they are still the people that Tapparich knows about, and the first place he will look. They have a ton of cameras up so they should notice when the Mok'tagar start poking around. Hopefully they will have begun adapting to their previous experiences by then enough that Faith and their prepwork can save them.
I am leaning towards just telling him to keep his mouth shut about Kathy and do the summoning, but I am not at all opposed to reading him in. I was basically 50/50 on trusting him to stay quiet so people would think he was cool or accidentally blabbing to Skip or something.
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
Maybe we could play both sides more effectively by tipping them off in advance about an impending Mok'tagar attack so that they're better prepared?
So I think @Ct613hulu has the right idea if we aren't going to frame the Initiative. We should jump on Tapparich while he still thinks things are ok and eliminate him. We could have Andrew summon Skip to help guide us there and to provide experienced interdimensional mercenary backup. We wouldn't have to frame anyone so we wouldn't be in a desperate rush to handle things either.
- Location
- Vancouver
The Initiative did take Faith onboard and have them pretty freaked (Willow was trying to get stuff to make sure she could stay safe while going to the university), I don't think they'll care too much for the time being. Plus they have plenty of their own armaments and a very strong defensive bunker. And the aforementioned Faith to help them fight off the demons. If they have too much trouble with the Mok'tagar, I'm pretty sure they'd think Maggie will call us (which I imagine she would). Then we come by as the cavalry to 'save the day' and weaken the Initiative's position, minimal chance of wholesale slaughtering.
Possible, but then they'd wonder how we knew it was impending, which puts us in an... awkward spot. Worst comes to worse, Faith, or even Maggie might point the Mok'tagar back our way, turning the tables on us. We might stand a chance to push the Mok'tagar back by ourselves, but we could lose some people and the Initiative might be able to take over the town.
Yeah, hard to say. He's been really helpful, but hard to say how good he can be at keeping quiet. Plus there were a few hints that Kathy seemed to like him a bit/vice versa, so he might take her death a bit worse than the Scoobies did
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
As far as the initiative is concerned we're demon experts right? If we follow the cover story Kathy has disappeared and we can't find her so we let them know the Mok'tagar will probably attack when they find out. They also don't speak the Mok'Tagar's language so they won't be able to conduct diplomacy with them to avoid being framed.
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- Location
- Vancouver
True, though they still wouldn't think the Mok'tagar would definitely be after them because of the false trail we left. How much more they'll bother to prepare then, well it might help them a bit. They also might find it a little odd that we went out of our way to tell them, especially since as of now we're at the least, rival factions. And they're a faction that's kidnapped demons before, so why are we looking out for them, not accusing them of her disappearance in the first place? Even telling them that she's missing seems to be giving away a pretty big hint, something we'd usually deal with in-house. Sure, we could make a full blown production of it, a script, demanding access again to 'search for Kathy', reluctantly 'believing their claims of innocence', then warning them, etc. but that seems like a fair amount of work.
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
Human solidarity? The Mok'tagar attacked them earlier for no apparent reason so it shouldn't be too hard to convince them that they're going to again. We could tell them that we were trying to deal with it on our own but the Mok'Tagar have lost patience and could attack any day now?
Since the Initiative knows nothing about demons and is probably pretty racist against them it should be fairly easy to convince them we've decided under pressure to side with the forces of humanity.
I mean I'm not sure how good an idea playing the two sides against each other and having them finish each other off is morally speaking but it should be doable to pull off with our information advantage. Seems a bit coldhearted and callous but it should be pretty effective at removing two potential threats at once.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
My only worry about the frame initiative plan is if they spot us doing it and manage to seccure evidence (video of us burying the body that CyberWillow can't scrub for example) of us framing them.
Olivebirdy
mook.
You didn't think the Kill option was going to kill Kathy? It was an obviously bad choice.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I knew exactly what the option would do before I voted and I didn't and still don't see it as a bad choice. I don't want to play someone who would let their partner die for political reasons.
- Location
- Before the Ninth Gate
[X] Plan Double Down
-[X] In the interim, have Willow muddy the waters to keep Tapparich from knowing ahead of time.
-[X] Do some research and prep to figure out if guns work, if A4s work, and a way to deal with the toxic enviroment.
-[X] Hire and summon Skip to help Buffy assassinate Tapparich, maybe as part of a strike force. Take Skip's advice about if we need to hire more.
--[X] Bring A4s/guns to start with. That might wreck the place, and the Demons are hopefully unfamiliar with them.
--[X] If this plan works, publicly declare that Kathy betrayed Buffy by attacking her consort. This is to put the blame on them and make sure we don't get a bad reputation. This also is an attempt to spin it as them starting it, not us, so we get away with not announcing our attack beforehand.
--[X] Demand reparations from clan for treachery (dependent on how Anya thinks that will work).
---[X] If that isn't viable, instead use the beheading of the clan to get peace with them, at the least.
-[X] The alternative (if peace negotiations go wrong) is using missile launchers to fight against the army of Tapparich in our world. Apparently we already have some.
--[X] Also, tip the initiative off about the upcoming attack of the demons if we fail.
Note: This plan can and will be edited as better ideas for the attack come in.
-[X] In the interim, have Willow muddy the waters to keep Tapparich from knowing ahead of time.
-[X] Do some research and prep to figure out if guns work, if A4s work, and a way to deal with the toxic enviroment.
-[X] Hire and summon Skip to help Buffy assassinate Tapparich, maybe as part of a strike force. Take Skip's advice about if we need to hire more.
--[X] Bring A4s/guns to start with. That might wreck the place, and the Demons are hopefully unfamiliar with them.
--[X] If this plan works, publicly declare that Kathy betrayed Buffy by attacking her consort. This is to put the blame on them and make sure we don't get a bad reputation. This also is an attempt to spin it as them starting it, not us, so we get away with not announcing our attack beforehand.
--[X] Demand reparations from clan for treachery (dependent on how Anya thinks that will work).
---[X] If that isn't viable, instead use the beheading of the clan to get peace with them, at the least.
-[X] The alternative (if peace negotiations go wrong) is using missile launchers to fight against the army of Tapparich in our world. Apparently we already have some.
--[X] Also, tip the initiative off about the upcoming attack of the demons if we fail.
Note: This plan can and will be edited as better ideas for the attack come in.
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- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Plan Double Down
Nothing can go wrong with this plan!
Nothing can go wrong with this plan!
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
Well yeah fundamentally we've only got a few options here.
1. Try and kill them before they realize whats up and try and kill us.
2. Try and trick them into thinking we didn't kill Kathy.
-a) While blaming someone else
-b) While pretending she went missing
3. Just Ignore it and pretend it never happened and feign ignorance whenever it's brought up and hope the whole thing blows over.
4. Own up to it and attempt diplomacy either through force or bargaining
3 and 4 are probably dead on arrival unless we come up with some incredibly convincing illusions and/or mind control.
1. Try and kill them before they realize whats up and try and kill us.
2. Try and trick them into thinking we didn't kill Kathy.
-a) While blaming someone else
-b) While pretending she went missing
3. Just Ignore it and pretend it never happened and feign ignorance whenever it's brought up and hope the whole thing blows over.
4. Own up to it and attempt diplomacy either through force or bargaining
3 and 4 are probably dead on arrival unless we come up with some incredibly convincing illusions and/or mind control.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Ah, HOAs - the true nemesis appears.
- Location
- Internet
[X] Plan Double Down
- Location
- St. Petersburg
Ah, Anya, Giles, you know how to make everything better. Even murder. Indeed, what are friends for?
And now we are covering it up? Trying to blame it on the Initiative? Say, what was our beef with Faith, again?
Right. Wilkins would be delighted, they grow up so fast!
Even if it didn't wipe out the initiative I would be leery of going that way.
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- Pronouns
- She/Her
I mean, you're not wrong, but at the same time the petty asshole in me is like, "turnabout is fair play". And we're not framing an individual so much as an institution if we go that route.Say, what was our beef with Faith, again?
Right. Wilkins would be delighted, they grow up so fast!
All that being said, I lean more towards DD at the moment. Subterfuge isn't really Buffy's thing; active-aggressive is.
[X] Plan Double Down
- Location
- Maryland
So I like double down in part because it fits with our prior behavior in dealing with W&H.
Also you only have to squint a little to see that yes Kathy betrayed us. Sadly I don't think her father would take that as an explanation. I really wish Kathy started backing down earlier.
[X] Plan Double Down
Also you only have to squint a little to see that yes Kathy betrayed us. Sadly I don't think her father would take that as an explanation. I really wish Kathy started backing down earlier.
[X] Plan Double Down
I think Kathy always kind of expected to have to prove her fightiness to Buffy at some point. She came to a 'primitive' culture that clearly picks its leader by pure murder power, making sure people took her seriously would eventually require her to show that she had some strength in her. Then Buffy stood to the side and watched as her girlfriend and Kathy fought. It all adds up pretty well for fitting what Kathy expects from other cultures.
We still definitely made the right call despite all that.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
She also wasn't wrong? She just picked the wrong hill to (literaly) die on. If she had shown herself to be a good vampire killer by joining in on watch patrols then we would be having an entirely different conversation about possibly giving her more authority in all likelyhood.
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DeAnno
Sometimes words have two meanings
Some clarifications/additional information about both plans:
- Divert Blame or a similar plan, if it got found out, would be seen as a pretty perfidious action and give you a bad reputation for lying and backstabbing, as Anya suggested in the update.
- Andrew would be able to summon up a nonsapient demon whose corpse stayed put when it died. It'd involve doing the more planar bindingy type ritual to get one, like he used for Sour, and then just loosing it.
- Being a direct violent attack, Double Down would not carry the same stigma as Divert Blame, especially if you don't actually tell any lies beforehand. It would maybe look a little bit bad if you didn't announce your intentions before attacking (it's spin dependent), but nowhere near as bad as Divert Blame.
- There would be some complications in successfully teleporting a strike force to Mog'tog'og. Skip could maybe help with that. You have the sense he'd be willing to help but he would probably have to be paid in either money or favors because this plan would seem hella dangerous to him.
- There would be some complications in finding/sneaking your way around Mog'tog'og once you got there, which Skip could also maybe help with.
- Mog'tog'og being a relatively weird dimension, there are also environmental complications you might have to deal with. The atmosphere is moderately (but not lethally) toxic, for one thing. You could either ignore that and hope it isn't too bad or try to mitigate it in various ways. Skip and/or vampires would be completely unaffected by that though.
- For another thing AT4s and firearms in general might not work there, because it's different enough that physical laws work differently. Nobody you have at this meeting including Anya knows this for sure yet, though it might be possible to figure it out in advance.
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- Location
- United States
[X] Plan Double Down
- Location
- Vancouver
Just a quick reminder everyone: on a meta level, we know Skip is evil. The more we rely on him (and this plan seems to rely on him a lot) the worse off we'll be when he makes his move with Jasmine. That said, while our reputation doesn't have to take a hit if we cover it up well, it is true that we put it on the line with the other plan.