Those two actions are in the same plan, so it's entirely possible Fortune will be done after we talk with the consul. More than that, I think it's important to strike while the iron is hot - the legion feels rudderless, and I'm sure it's a feeling shared by its officers, at least to some degree. So if we're choosing to gather support from the legion, we should also gather that support from its officers, especially as they are the people who would have less cause to respect and support us by default, and will have opportunity and ability to make their own plays.
Res Publica: A Quest of Ancient Rome
- Thread starter Telamon
- Start date
- Original Historic
- Location
- Europe
Those officers aren't running away, but tell me, compared to social options, how many study options did we vote for during the Samnite War? It's always easy to say "next turn", but the harsh reality is that while we will continue to vote for social options in the following turns in addition to military options the same can't be said about studying. And honestly, the officers can wait for a few days until we are in Asia.
To expand on my reasoning.
We have a clear voting behaviour and it favours social options. Rightly so of course, since who you know and who your friends are is crucial to climbing up that ladder. However, being an incompetent git will not help ensure our continuous rise and will for sure not make us the vocal point politicians of our side will rally behind.
We know most of these officers already and they know us. Yes, we don't have a clear picture of what they think of the new developments, but that's ok. We will be voting for social options in the next turns, that much I can promise you. One only has to go through the Samnite War to see this. We already voted for them. Not to mention that we already know that even actions not directly related to socialising will have an effect on the legion's opinion on us. Leading them to loot for starters.
Studying on the other hand has time after time come up short. We did pick it up on occasion, but those were rare. The cursus honorum is designed to prepare us for political office, that means both socialising but also training.
I just know that once the campaign will start in earnest we aren't going to have the luxury of free time we have now. On the ships we don't have to meet Pontic delegations, negotiate with city officials, haggle with mercenaries, buy bread, scout the surroundings or write this thread's husbando Cicero in the hopes that even if we mess up we'll be immortalised through him.
So yes, vote for studying before more pressing concerns will prevent us from doing so.
Last edited:
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I don't know. If by "study" you mean "action that netted us XP gain through learning experiences," well.
On Turn I our two personal actions got us two very valuable XP trickles from Tercerus and Sertorius. The Sertorius trickle consumed one personal action per turn, but frankly was probably worth it given how many Military XP we netted from it.
On the next turn that actually gave us a personal vote (Turn IV), we spent our only personal action on letter-writing, and were rewarded with XP from Cicero.
On Turn VI of the campaign we got three personal actions, one of which we spent on studying Logistics
On Turn VII we got two personal actions, but unless "Begin Journal" counts, neither was spent studying or training.
On Turn IX we got siege personal actions (up to five of 'em). We committed two to studying, and one to letter-writing which we might reasonably have hoped would grant XP, though it didn't.
On Turn X (the vote before the long hiatus), we voted for "Sparring" (the equivalent of 'study' for hand to hand combat) and "Study Logistics."
On Turn XI (the conclusion of the war) we admittedly voted for no 'study' options unless 'Expand Journal' counts as hopefully likely to increase passive/active XP gain.
So all in all, we had 2+1+3+2+5+4+3 = 20 personal actions. We took 2+1+1+0+3+2+0 = 9 personal actions that we might reasonably expect to confer XP, either studying or the equivalent of 'studying' subjects that aren't best learned from a book.
We had several more personal actions sacrificed in exchange for a steady Military XP trickle too.
I'd say that while we could be focusing harder on XP gain at this stage of the game, we could be doing a lot worse. And we've been finding time to study, even during war.
Similar logic can be applied to the structure of the legion. The officers are big boys, we can afford to not worry about what they think while we make sure our mind is a finely honed weapon for fighting whoever we're fighting. Except that's... not how it works, to put it mildly.
Well, first, while we did not choose pure Study actions, we did have a source of Military and Command XP from Sertorius and Tercerus, several other actions got us XP and we did choose to study skills several times later in the future.
Second, the reality of the situation is, having strong social connections to important people around us and prosecuting our military duties with excellence is often much more important than getting another thousand or so XP or some minor bonus to the roll from Study actions. Perhaps we didn't do as much pure studying then, but it was because it was not as important then, and I say it is still not as important as social actions right now.
- Location
- Europe
I edited the last post and no, I don't count letter writing as studying. That is very much a social action and we were all surprised that Cicero resulted win a minuscule intelligence bonus. Same goes for the journal.
Last edited:
DamnedAeons 187
An Ally of Convenience is an Enemy of Opportunity
- Location
- Texas
[X] Plan Scope Out The Territory
Last edited:
A rather big jump from not choosing pure Study actions often to being incompetent, don't you think?
- Location
- Europe
Hyperbole is a time honoured oratory tactic.
Besides, by the point we have a civic post like quaestor we will want to shore up skills like administration and stewardship.
- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Preparing for Asia
- Location
- Central Europe
Building our reputation with the legion and its officers is very important, I will not dispute that. Back in my first post after the update I stated exactly these 4 personal actions - Consul, Learning Greek, Study Marian Campaign and Meeting Officers - as the most important. So, I will not be terribly upset if any plan containing 3 out of these 4 wins.
However, I want to lay out my reasoning why I feel Study>Officiers right now. For one, I feel that Study will open up new or better choices, when planning our overall campaign strategy next turn. Think "Call it Peace" vs. "A Social War" at the start of the Samnite Campaign. Especially, when taken in conjunction with Consul, we should expect to get the chance for some input next turn.
Furthermore, all hard earned social credibility within the legion will quickly evaporate, if we fail to lead them to victory. By all accounts we now have a military inept Legate, to balance this out we should read up on some military theory in an effort to fill this hole.
However, I want to lay out my reasoning why I feel Study>Officiers right now. For one, I feel that Study will open up new or better choices, when planning our overall campaign strategy next turn. Think "Call it Peace" vs. "A Social War" at the start of the Samnite Campaign. Especially, when taken in conjunction with Consul, we should expect to get the chance for some input next turn.
Furthermore, all hard earned social credibility within the legion will quickly evaporate, if we fail to lead them to victory. By all accounts we now have a military inept Legate, to balance this out we should read up on some military theory in an effort to fill this hole.
Last edited:
Noroboro
Consistency is key and I’m consistently tired :)
- Location
- Canada
Might as well put in my thoughts while it's one int the morning. We're going to be fighting a lot in Greece but I think Theo is the better choice for companion, try to charm the Greeks. Avoid as much fighting as we can. Learning Greek would be useful as well, making use seem like proper Hellenes to impress them. Talking with Atticus will familiarize us with Greek customs and knowledge and we should write a letter to scaevola later down the line. That's basically the options I like the most
- Location
- Europe
If that is so you'll want to call the chapter "Sanguis Et Circenses" as sanguineus,-a,-um is an adjective, meaning 'bloody', while sanguis is the noun for 'blood'.
- Location
- Germany
[X] Plan Scope Out The Territory
- Location
- Europe
[X] Preparing for Asia
Spying on the Catilinarians at this point in time seems like a pointless distraction. I'd rather try and fail to gain information about the Marians than spy on a faction with no power in the middle of a civil war. Cinna might be paranoid but he's not the only Marian in Rome that we can attempt to spy on.
Spying on the Catilinarians at this point in time seems like a pointless distraction. I'd rather try and fail to gain information about the Marians than spy on a faction with no power in the middle of a civil war. Cinna might be paranoid but he's not the only Marian in Rome that we can attempt to spy on.
@Meep, I've changed mine to Jester's.
A compelling case has been made about not spying on Marians. With their increased paranoia, they've solidified their network. Given what occurred to kin-people attached to the traitor legion, I am not very interested in seeing something similar occur with ours. We are linked to a Sullan (our mentor).
While I would have preferred to have simply prepare for war by studying Greek, Greek tactics, and Roman tactics, I understand the need to solidify our base of support, create greater connection with the officer corp, and create new ones with a powerful individual (Consul).
This screams the Diplomance route.
A compelling case has been made about not spying on Marians. With their increased paranoia, they've solidified their network. Given what occurred to kin-people attached to the traitor legion, I am not very interested in seeing something similar occur with ours. We are linked to a Sullan (our mentor).
While I would have preferred to have simply prepare for war by studying Greek, Greek tactics, and Roman tactics, I understand the need to solidify our base of support, create greater connection with the officer corp, and create new ones with a powerful individual (Consul).
This screams the Diplomance route.
Last edited:
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
People repeatedly discussed both those actions in the context of prospective XP gain as soon as we found out that was or might be a thing. Furthermore, even if you delete those, six of our twenty actions were training actions, and we lost several more actions to opportunity cost of getting a (VERY worth it) Military XP trickle from Sertorius.
Should we aspire to do better next time? Sure! Should we act as though this is something that predictably gets ignored all of the forever? No.
I think a subtle point from the option text has been overlooked.
" [] Fortune's Favor: After camp is made for the night, several of the officers, including Carcellus, Pompolussa, and Mercator, gather to gamble and game. They have extended you an invitation. "
Looking back at the Samnite War posts, that underlined passage didn't always used to be there.
The officers want to talk to us.
They may have information we need about Asiaticus (e.g. some of them may have served under him in the Social War). They may have very strong concerns. They may want to sound us out. But the officers specifically wanted to invite Atellus to one of their gambling nights, and there is probably a good reason.
This is part of what drove me to put it in the plan. This isn't just generic favor-currying with officers who may or may not be interested in us. We may specifically suffer from not knowing things they want to communicate in a deniable manner that is unlikely to be overlooked.
The last update said that the Marians in general were more wary. Cinna in paricular is the leading figure there, but it's obvious from context that Cinna is currently the de facto leader of the Marian faction in Rome. What he does, other Marians are likely to emulate.
Also, don't think of the Catilinarians as a faction with no power. Think of them as easily recruited pro-Sullan radicals. Again, note that Catiline immediately segued into bloody-handed killings of Marians when Sulla retook Rome, at the behest of other Sullan figures. And that the Catilinarians are drawn from the same broad demographic that formed the core of Pompey's anti-Marian conspiracy.
By the way, Si Vis Pacem is itself a study action that will likely open up further options, remove maluses, or confer bonuses, when we reach the front lines. Being fluent in Greek is a tremendous asset when dealing with Greeks, and most of the local/civilian population of the area we're campaigning through are Greeks or Greek-speakers. It's safe to assume that as an adequately educated Roman, Atellus does already speak Greek, but a refresher course could definitely help.
Also, "Rusty Greek" is exactly the sort of thing that could impair our Charisma and Oratory checks, and those are among our best skills that give us an edge in situations where we might otherwise be outclassed in battle.
- Location
- Orlando,FL
[X] Plan Scope Out The Territory
- Location
- Earth
[X] Plan Scope Out The Territory
- Location
- USA
To add onto that, the Catilinarians also might have more useful information pertaining to us as this is how we are seen by them:
So unlike the Sullans and Marians who both see as us as just potentially useful, with the Marians being wary of our connections, the Catilinarians are interested enough in us that they wish to bring us into the fold. So who knows what plans we might uncover if we keep our ears to the ground.