Successor (BTVS)
- Thread starter DeAnno
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[x] At the last second, Buffy pulled the blow, but the crack of Amy's broken jaw still rang out across the empty street.
[X] At the last second, Buffy pulled the blow, but the crack of Amy's broken jaw still rang out across the empty street.
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[X] At the last second, Buffy pulled the blow, but the crack of Amy's broken jaw still rang out across the empty street.
[X] At the last second, Buffy pulled the blow, but the crack of Amy's broken jaw still rang out across the empty street.
1) Utilitarian: Amy is useful, if she regrets what she has done. And she seems to. She also likely knows where Rack is, and, if nothing else, can be tortured for information.
2) Moral: Killing someone in anger is a terrible precedent, and not something Buffy should do
3) Story-wise: eliminating characters is not something I am for.
In the end, Amy is a scared kid who went through a terrible trauma. That she is at all sane and functional in any way is a miracle in its own. She cannot be held responsible for her actions.
If we want to punish her, it has to be through proper channels and procedure. If we want to help her, we have to keep her alive.
And I certainly want to help her. Magic rehab is a project that should be made.
1) Utilitarian: Amy is useful, if she regrets what she has done. And she seems to. She also likely knows where Rack is, and, if nothing else, can be tortured for information.
2) Moral: Killing someone in anger is a terrible precedent, and not something Buffy should do
3) Story-wise: eliminating characters is not something I am for.
In the end, Amy is a scared kid who went through a terrible trauma. That she is at all sane and functional in any way is a miracle in its own. She cannot be held responsible for her actions.
If we want to punish her, it has to be through proper channels and procedure. If we want to help her, we have to keep her alive.
And I certainly want to help her. Magic rehab is a project that should be made.
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- Location
- Following The Apocalypse
[X] At the last second, Buffy pulled the blow, but the crack of Amy's broken jaw still rang out across the empty street
Wilkins does raise a good point. Buffy is basically now Judge, Jury, and Executioner now. When she was just a vigilante she could let things slide because "Well they're humans, and it's not really my job anyway" Now that she's in charge it pretty much is her job though. Not saying Amy needs to die here, but Buffy does need to come up with some sort of system she can look to for when human killing is called for.
well, first of all, in case of Amy, there's a sh*tton of mitigating circumstances. She is a super-traumatized teenager that, by all rights, should be in an asylum / professional counseling for the rest of her life. The amount of psychological trauma she has is, frankly, absurd. And that's before you start looking into whatever effects "magic boosting" had on her - both psychological and physiological.
Buffy and co. need some manner of judges, and probably to adapt legal code to some of the magic crimes, and probably devise methods of punishment that can deal with demons, but overall, the systems in place should be workable. Ie existing judges, police, etc.
You mean the systems the previous mayor, who had over a century to shape them, set up? Those judges and police? The police we just had to save from a dragon?
Probably should get someone to look into the whole judicial system at some point. Just a thought.
[X] At the last second, Buffy pulled the blow, but the crack of Amy's broken jaw still rang out across the empty street
[X] At the last second, Buffy pulled the blow, but the crack of Amy's broken jaw still rang out across the empty street.
I definitely want Buffy to brutalize Rack to set an example on the kidnapping thing. At the same time I also don't want Buffy to come off as uncompromising or understanding since just like with Harmony the situation has not gotten bad enough to warrant murder. There is likely multiple paths Buffy can take to neutralize Amy as a threat even if no longer an asset whether its Giles doing something similar in canon that was done for Willow or more conventional rehab/counseling with magic lojack. Establishing that the Buffy administration is willing to work with the supernatural world if they can follow certain guidelines will do alot for keeping the peace.
I definitely want Buffy to brutalize Rack to set an example on the kidnapping thing. At the same time I also don't want Buffy to come off as uncompromising or understanding since just like with Harmony the situation has not gotten bad enough to warrant murder. There is likely multiple paths Buffy can take to neutralize Amy as a threat even if no longer an asset whether its Giles doing something similar in canon that was done for Willow or more conventional rehab/counseling with magic lojack. Establishing that the Buffy administration is willing to work with the supernatural world if they can follow certain guidelines will do alot for keeping the peace.
[X] At the last second, Buffy pulled the blow, but the crack of Amy's broken jaw still rang out across the empty street.
I don't quite want to kill Amy but boy did she do her best to try to die here. She has had a decent amount of time to try to walk things back or run away but has instead stuck with Rack and helped him more and more. Imagine how terribly things would have gone if she had two more votes and was one of the success picks? This vote would probably be about the aftermath of the compass utterly fucking Buffy over. Trying to turn the town's main line of defense into a rat so she can escape and not suffer consequences isn't exactly making me root for her redemption either.
Personally I think what we should actually do with her is turn her back into a rat. Toss her back in a cage with a hamster wheel for a few months or a year, and then pull her back out. By then Rack and everyone that would know to use her should be dead or gone, and hopefully the little coven forming will be skilled enough to keep her in line, or notice her trying to betray everyone a bit earlier and actually kill her that time instead. We don't exactly have a prison for magic users after all, so a terrarium should do instead.
I don't quite want to kill Amy but boy did she do her best to try to die here. She has had a decent amount of time to try to walk things back or run away but has instead stuck with Rack and helped him more and more. Imagine how terribly things would have gone if she had two more votes and was one of the success picks? This vote would probably be about the aftermath of the compass utterly fucking Buffy over. Trying to turn the town's main line of defense into a rat so she can escape and not suffer consequences isn't exactly making me root for her redemption either.
Personally I think what we should actually do with her is turn her back into a rat. Toss her back in a cage with a hamster wheel for a few months or a year, and then pull her back out. By then Rack and everyone that would know to use her should be dead or gone, and hopefully the little coven forming will be skilled enough to keep her in line, or notice her trying to betray everyone a bit earlier and actually kill her that time instead. We don't exactly have a prison for magic users after all, so a terrarium should do instead.
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- Location
- Vancouver
It's possible that if we picked her for the major success that she would have fessed up the truth for us and used her connection with Rack to help point him out to us. At least, I'd like to hope so. While her reveal as having betrayed us was dramatic and well done, I don't really remember anything that would have foreshadowed her traitorhood beforehand, which if we could get screwed over on picking our 'successes' like that would seem really unfair for a quest.
I don't know about the rat plan. It feels like torturing her to get her to stay in line, which is a bit closer to how Wilkins ran the town than I'd like to see her follow. Finding some way to hold her will be important though. I'm hoping Giles has some answers to that.
DeAnno
Sometimes words have two meanings
It's actually made canon in S6 that Amy Madison knew Rack before she got ratted in S3. She dragged Willow there less than 48 hours after being de-ratted, and acted like a semi-regular customer. Due to the way canon is structured in the quest it wasn't necessarily still true, but it wasn't necessarily false either, especially with the focus being on Rack, a S6 element. (I rewatch relevant episodes to refresh myself on plot elements for this quest a lot, and when I don't have time to do that I try to at least review relevant script fragments. I did a S6E8-10 binge prior to this episode because I wanted to include Teeth, Amy, and Rack as significant characters here.) That was the major clue; there were a couple other small tells, most specifically Jonathan thinking Amy was "tired" in Scene III.
As for how bad it would've been. Let's just say that the quest wouldn't have ended, and leave it at that.
StormLord
Savior, Conqueror, Hero, Villain.
Buffy didn't quite pull the blow in time. There was the crack of Amy's broken neck and then a consuming silence. (NOTE: Due to the effects of Buffy's {#(&!*^}, votes for this option are weighted at double strength.)
That escalated pretty quickly.
[x] At the last second, Buffy pulled the blow, but the crack of Amy's broken jaw still rang out across the empty street.
That escalated pretty quickly.
[x] At the last second, Buffy pulled the blow, but the crack of Amy's broken jaw still rang out across the empty street.
That's cruel and unusual punishment, what amounts to torture, basically. Amy is an addict with lots of psychological damage. She should be helped, not destroyed.
We destroy Rack. Him, we make suffer. Amy? Amy we help get better.
OK how? Who is going to keep an eye on her so she doesn't rat some more people in order to escape? We can't just keep breaking her jaw to make sure she can't cast the spell and we don't have a jail capable of keeping her under control.
- Location
- Vancouver
It's hardly a fair defense to say 'it's canon' and then right after that admit that those events wont always be accurate. Are we supposed to metagame those events or not? I'll admit that I didn't remember those episode events but I don't feel like we should be punished for not metagaming. The'hints' dropped were very minor, the biggest one was that another character thought she was tired. Willow has been tired plenty, do we have to worry about her turning evil? That's a season 6 element too.
I think the biggest problem I have with this is that we were never given a choice of 'who to trust' regarding Amy, it was just 'who does well'. Like, if it's revealed that Vanessa has been manipulating things behind our back, I'd get it, we were given multiple chances to investigate her and recognized that putting her family in charge of the police was risky because we didn't know him. Or if Harmony betrayed us after seeing a big bad beat us around a few times and us not doing anything even though it seems like she's only following us cause we're the biggest game in town. But this wasn't a trust option or the like, just voting for who does well. I dislike having to treat this like a big game of paranoia (and that includes stuff like having to research minor characters to know that we can't vote for someone or how to put in the optimal stunt).