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The Silmarillion Quest

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[X] The House of Hador:

People are talking about trying not to F@ck things up as the Dwarves or the Feanorans yet no one has said Jacksh$t about the GREATEST House of Men in the setting.....

Buuuuuut since their is no way for it to win....

[X] Durin's Folk

At least its not another Shadow Quest. I Rather dislike those.
 
Deadly Snark said:
I also want to point out for those voting for the House of Feanor because they want to change the fate of the Feanorians, thats probably not going to work out.

Feanor gets to take One action independently every turn completely outside of our control. With his Stats and his personality, he only needs to fuck up once to completely bring everything crashing down. And considering that he cannot be High King of the Noldor, good odds he will finally make good of his threat and kill his brother.

The Sons of Feanor are also not really under our control, they are independent leaders in their own right and they also take actions independently of our input. And given that only 2 out of 7 of them arent complete dicks with superpowers, errr good luck with that.
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The Sons of Feanor are all capable of acting as miniature faction leaders in their own right, managing independent realms that still owe fealty and ultimate loyalty to you. The other Noldorin house, Fingolfin's own, does not have this. When Turgon and Finrod fuck off to found Gondolin and Nargothrond, they are gone from the Faction forever, and form their own faction.

The Sons of Feanor being able to take actions independently means a Feanorian player will not have to micromanage them, while still being able to order them around if necessary.

Though of course, they are Feanorians. That rather says it all about the drawbacks. :V
 
Demitius said:
[X] The House of Hador:

People are talking about trying not to F@ck things up as the Dwarves or the Feanorans yet no one has said Jacksh$t about the GREATEST House of Men in the setting.....

Buuuuuut since their is no way for it to win....

[X] Durin's Folk

At least its not another Shadow Quest. I Rather dislike those.
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If you want a Mannish faction to win, could I convince you to vote the House of Beor instead?
 
mcclay said:
If you want a Mannish faction to win, could I convince you to vote the House of Beor instead?
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Most of the Quests I have seen recently go for the Wisdom route. Which is fine but I am in the Mood for some good old Martial Victory.

That and if I must go for a Mannish house that is not of the line of Marach then there can be only one....

[] Drughu



Forest .....Dwarves....... Men?..... Truly the Most confusing race of Man in the Setting. If you want to go Full Tom Bombadil and full Forest-Magic-Hippy
Meditating under waterfalls and the like then pick the Drughu the ugliest of Erus creations. Truly in the ever great gift of choice that Mankind has been gifted, the Drughu..... are a choice.

~~They are the uglier Crannogmen of LOTR~~
 
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QTesseract said:
Morgoth couldn't do shit about Gondolin. He needed it to be betrayed to have a chance. Menegroth also made a fairly good go at it; Morgoth needed Fëanor's help to even break the outermost line of defenses for a single servant.
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Incorrect about Gondolin. The Hidden City survived so long because Morgoth couldn't find it; as soon as he did, he razed it to the fucking ground.
 
[X] The Fëanorians

i want to see what a mage can really do. Also can't Fëanor make Silmarils again he did not put his power in to it like the one ring?
 
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Fëanor a shit. All but two of his sons are shit as well. I'll vote for the objectively superior son of Finwë, the one who actually got shit done and managed to put paid to Morgoth himself, instead of just cussing up a storm and running off to brood after murdering people because he was really, really salty.

[X] The House of Fingolfin

The first order of business as Fingolfin is to not get surprised by a massive horde of orcs almost immediately after we land in the Battle of Lammoth. After that it's up in the air, but I'd say not immediately trying to bust down the Gates of Angband before even establishing a serious foothold would also be a stellar idea.
 
My only issue is that I dont know what Fingolfin could have done differently. Everything he did during the Siege made sense, how was he supposed to know Morgoth would unleash a veritable horde of fucking Dragons when they dont even exist yet?
 
woody12 said:
[X] The Fëanorians

i want to see what a mage can really do. Also can't Fëanor make Silmarils again he did not put his power in to it like the one ring?
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No, he 100% cannot make any more Silmarils. Because he absolutely did pour his essence into their creation.

The Two Trees of Valinor, the Silmarils of Feanor, the Iron Ring of Melkor - these things and more are not reproducible exactly for the fact that the people who made them were lessened in the act of creation; they poured so much of themselves into their work that they are literally not the people they once were afterwards. They are not as powerful as they were before, and can never again reach the same heights as they could prior to making their artifacts of utmost legend.
 
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Deadly Snark said:
My only issue is that I dont know what Fingolfin could have done differently. Everything he did during the Siege made sense, how was he supposed to know Morgoth would unleash a veritable horde of fucking Dragons when they dont even exist yet?
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The Siege of Angband didn't happen until Dagor Aglareb, which itself happened after Dagor-nuin-Giliath. Given that it seems we're starting at either Y.T. 1495 or 1497, we should something along the lines of over 60 years before the Siege of Angband begins according to the OTL. I'd strongly urge that we focus on rallying enough allies that we can actually assault Angband directly, and prevent Morgoth from creating Ancalagon if at all possible. The reason for the siege in the first place was because Fingolfin and the Noldor didn't have the forces to let a direct assault be a viable option.
 
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Camiadus said:
The Siege of Angband didn't happen until Dagor Aglareb, which itself happened after Dagor-nuin-Giliath. Given that it seems we're starting at either Y.T. 1495 or 1497, we should something along the lines of over 60 years before the Siege of Angband begins according to the OTL. I'd strongly urge that we focus on rallying enough allies that we can actually assault Angband directly, and prevent Morgoth from creating Ancalagon if at all possible. The reason for the siege in the first place was because Fingolfin and the Noldor didn't have the forces to let a direct assault be a viable option.
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Which itself happened because of the Noldor wide diplomatic malus from the First Kinslaying. Unless we can prevent that, I dont see how we are supposed to convince the Sindar and etc to side with Kinslayers.
 
Deadly Snark said:
Which itself happened because of the Noldor wide diplomatic malus from the First Kinslaying. Unless we can prevent that, I dont see how we are supposed to convince the Sindar and etc to side with Kinslayers.
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(Faction Trait) The Star of Fingolfin: Not only are you the High King, but your distance from your brother Feanor's hideous deeds means that the other elves offer you a degree of repentance, and those of your House are more well-liked among the people of Arda than the warlike and single-minded Feanorians. (+6 to all Diplomacy rolls, can assemble Alliances against Morgoth if you have positive relations with more than three factions)
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The diplomacy penalty is specific to the House of Fëanor, whereas we actually receive a not insubstantial bonus to forging alliances and making common purpose with others against Morgoth. This is honestly one of the major reasons I'm pushing for Fingolfin, as Fëanor, unless I'm mistaken, will almost have to rely on forging an artifact of some sort to breach the Gates of Angband, as they won't have the numbers otherwise. The Oath and the stigma of the Kinslaying are each such strong maluses that I'm not sure it's worth trying to overcome them.
 
Nix's Warden said:
Or we could just not be Elves and embrace Dwarven Greatness instead :p
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It's the Silmarillion. If you're not trying to be Morgoth Bauglir, then you should always try to be of the Calaquendi.

Besides, Sayle did some silmarillion and LotR quests a couple years back, and we were either Men or Dwarves. I'd like to check off the last of the trio.
 
Dark Abstraction said:
No, he 100% cannot make any more Silmarils. Because he absolutely did pour his essence into their creation.
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oh thank i got the information second hand but i hear feanor is the cause of a lot horrible thing and playing as him we could change it but i do love dwarf more than elves.
the only lore i got is from the movies sorry.
 
Dark Abstraction said:
Incorrect about Gondolin. The Hidden City survived so long because Morgoth couldn't find it; as soon as he did, he razed it to the fucking ground.
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And? The reason he couldn't find it was because Ulmo hid it, not that it was so far away or anything. Discounting the biggest defense of a fortress and then judging it afterwords is certainky an interesting take, but I'm not really sure what it does for you?
Deadly Snark said:
My only issue is that I dont know what Fingolfin could have done differently. Everything he did during the Siege made sense, how was he supposed to know Morgoth would unleash a veritable horde of fucking Dragons when they dont even exist yet?
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Nothing. A big part of the Silmarillion is that the Noldor never stood a chance of killing morgoth in the first place; even though a few people (Turin Turambar, Nolofinwe Aracano, Curufinwe Feanaro) had the capability to do so under the right circumstances, it was never in their Doom to suceed. "To evil ends shall turn all things that begin well." Any mistakes Nolofinwe made were at the tactical level of suboptimal moves, since the strategic objective was impossible for them from the very beginning.
Given that this is a quest, its somewhat likely that that is different, but in Canon there's not that much Nolofinwe really could have done, at least after leaving Valinor
Dark Abstraction said:
It's the Silmarillion. If you're not trying to be Morgoth Bauglir, then you should always try to be of the Calaquendi.
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The edain are as storied as the Quendi are in the first age. For every Fingon there is a Beren, for every Feanor a Turin, for every Finrod an Andreth, etc.
This is why, of course the winning strategy is to instead be halfelven. They get the best of both worlds (how is it possible get to be as cool as Elrond smh), since the House of Hador doesn't get them as an option for whatever reason despite Earendil.
 
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Guys, the force of arms of arms to break Angband in direct assault does not, and never, exists in Middle Earth. Our only hope is to A. Ride out the storm or B. Ninja Assassinate Morgoth with a sudden yet inevitable betrayal.

Fingolfin's only mistake was honoring his duel with Morgoth and not sneaking a team of all the best BAMF's of Eldar-kind into ambush positions. Basically, the only successful actions against Morgoth were defensive in nature, subterfuge/infiltration/sabotage, or the Valar.

So we clearly know what will work.

Although going out in a glorious ball of Molten Rock and Death would be cool tool.
 
timeForced said:
Guys, the force of arms of arms to break Angband in direct assault does not, and never, exists in Middle Earth. Our only hope is to A. Ride out the storm or B. Ninja Assassinate Morgoth with a sudden yet inevitable betrayal.
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The Nirnaeth Arnoediad makes a liar out of you. The Union of Maedhros managed to break through the Gates of Angband to the steps of the fortress itself. If it hadn't been for the betrayal of Uldor and the Easterlings they could have possibly won the day, and that was with a host far diminished due to Nargothrond and Doriath sending nothing more than a token force at best.

If it was someone aside from a Son of Fëanor that rallied the forces of the West against Morgoth, he may well have fallen to sheer strength of arms that day. This might not address the issue of the dragons, but aside from Ancalagon they can all be slain by mortal means, as can nearly all of his servants save perhaps Sauron.
 
[X] The House of Fingolfin

Adhoc vote count started by DkArthas on Mar 20, 2019 at 3:33 AM, finished with 185 posts and 86 votes.
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timeForced said:
Guys, the force of arms of arms to break Angband in direct assault does not, and never, exists in Middle Earth. Our only hope is to A. Ride out the storm or B. Ninja Assassinate Morgoth with a sudden yet inevitable betrayal.

Fingolfin's only mistake was honoring his duel with Morgoth and not sneaking a team of all the best BAMF's of Eldar-kind into ambush positions. Basically, the only successful actions against Morgoth were defensive in nature, subterfuge/infiltration/sabotage, or the Valar.

So we clearly know what will work.

Although going out in a glorious ball of Molten Rock and Death would be cool tool.
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Morgoth isn't a scrub, and the only being besides other Valar who are likely to deceive him is Luthien, which requires her to be on a journey to carry her love across the finish line so they can tie the knot. Also it kinda ignore the fact that the only reason Morgoth bothered to duel Fingolfin is the fact that he would look bad if he refused to do so, and/or pride.

Furthermore Morgoth very nearly lost at the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, and if say Finrod has been around to bring Nargothrond into the battle due actually having the support of his people to fulfill his oath instead of being sabotaged by two brothers using thinly veiled threats of "If you get a Silmaril we'll go kin-slaying 2.0 to get it back" they might've won.
 
Camiadus said:
The Nirnaeth Arnoediad makes a liar out of you. The Union of Maedhros managed to break through the Gates of Angband to the steps of the fortress itself. If it hadn't been for the betrayal of Uldor and the Easterlings they could have possibly won the day, and that was with a host far diminished due to Nargothrond and Doriath sending nothing more than a token force at best.

If it was someone aside from a Son of Fëanor that rallied the forces of the West against Morgoth, he may well have fallen to sheer strength of arms that day. This might not address the issue of the dragons, but aside from Ancalagon they can all be slain by mortal means, as can nearly all of his servants save perhaps Sauron.
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Considering that the army was assaulting into a fortress the size of three Mt. Everests with south of 100k men, I don't put their hopes high. That entire battle was a feint by Morgoth meant to draw out the elves and destroy them in the open rather than have to root them out from every hidden hole. And consider that when Morgoth pulled out all the stops in the later War of Wrath, he held off the Host of the Valar for Forty years with a host of Orcs innumerable and the Balrogs, before he deployed his dragons.

The Noldor were fighting an entire pantheon of Evil Gods, the central theme of the Silmarillion was that their actions and confidence were sheer folly. There's a reason the wise always his and played guerrilla warfare throughout the book. Tolkien himself states that the Noldor never could have won by force of arms.
 
On a seperate note, @Telamon , did you mean to change it to the lay of Luthien, or is the change not on purpose?

Bilbo Baggins said:
The word "Leithian" would appear to be connected to Luthien, but the loremasters of Rivendell day not so. It is a word unattested elsewhere, but it does seem connected to the stem leth- 'set free', and with leithia 'release.'
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Dwarf fortressing sounds quite ducking reasonable at this time frame, and maybe building mega-death-traps and drowning orcs in the blood of the earth.

Because being a dwarf is hundreds of times better then being elvish as it seems elves only really fuck up badly enough to afffect the world for millennium to come...dwarves fix their damn messes.
 
timeForced said:
Considering that the army was assaulting into a fortress the size of three Mt. Everests with south of 100k men, I don't put their hopes high. That entire battle was a feint by Morgoth meant to draw out the elves and destroy them in the open rather than have to root them out from every hidden hole. And consider that when Morgoth pulled out all the stops in the later War of Wrath, he held off the Host of the Valar for Forty years with a host of Orcs innumerable and the Balrogs, before he deployed his dragons.

The Noldor were fighting an entire pantheon of Evil Gods, the central theme of the Silmarillion was that their actions and confidence were sheer folly. There's a reason the wise always his and played guerrilla warfare throughout the book. Tolkien himself states that the Noldor never could have won by force of arms.
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Except the Union of Maedhros was something forged from the spark of the love between Beren, and Luthien alongside their bonds with others proving stronger than all the dark designs of Morgoth? Furthermore Morgoth only learned of the planned assault through treachery, and there are loads of examples of him being fallible see Hurin remaining unbroken in will despite all of Morgoth's attempts, or Fingolfin getting so enraged at the dying light that he gave Morgoth a permanent limp.

Also while Morgoth is certainly the mightiest of the Valar he is only an individual, and every creation he makes lessens his power. Regardless of whether, or not that was outright stated this is a quest, and well going by the vote we'd be playing as a human with a human with the explicit ability to change their fate, or dwarf who're sturdy folk. Furthermore a recurring theme in the setting are bonds of friendship, which is a very different form of strength than force of arms.
RandomDwarf said:
Dwarf fortressing sounds quite ducking reasonable at this time frame, and maybe building mega-death-traps and drowning orcs in the blood of the earth.

Because being a dwarf is hundreds of times better then being elvish as it seems elves only really fuck up badly enough to afffect the world for millennium to come...dwarves fix their damn messes.
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Except as humans we can more easily befriend elves, and dwarves. This is all a diabolical plan to allow future generations of rangers to walk into any bar where they'll meet an elf, a dwarf, and go on an adventure to defeat a great evil. The eagle joins up along the way. :V
 
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