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Rocket Design Agency - A Playtesting Quest

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Cast and Characters
  • Informational
    • NASA
    Brad L. Whipple - Director, New Alleghany Space Administration

    Payload Design - +1
    Rocket Design - +2
    Engine Design - +3
    Mission Planning - +1
    Flight Control - +2
    Damage Control - +0
    Spacecraft Activity - +0
    Extravehicular Activity - +0
    Experimental Activity - +2

    Flight Objectives
    - Continue scientific launches, progressing to probes into the space beyond orbit by year end 1959.
    - Begin experiments which will allow a progression to human spaceflight before year end 1960.
    - Cooperate with the Armed Forces in developing their abilities through the application of spaceflight.

    Mission Schedule - Current Date: January 1960
    - Low Orbit 1 (Summer 1958) - Hope-2 (Partial failure)
    - Re-entry test 1 - Sub-orbital - Full Success, August 1958
    - Low Orbit 2 - Partial Failure, Hope-3 , October 1958
    - Re-entry test 2 - Failure, November 1958
    - Military Communications - Success, ARTS, December 1958
    - High Orbit 1 - Success, Hope-4, January 1959
    - Re-entry test 3 - Success, March 1959
    - Bio-sciences - Launch Failure, July 1959
    - Discovery 1, Success, September 1959
    - High Orbit 2 - Success, Hope-5, October 1959
    - Lunar Probe - Launch Failure, Artemis-Lunar, November 1959
    - Bio-sciences - Success, Astrocaphe-Chuck, December 1959
    - Discovery 2 - Failure, January 1960
    - Astrocathe test - Success, animal in space, February 1960
    - March lost due to Artemis redesign
    - NAN payload - April 1960 - First Hermes Flight
    - Crown 3 - Spring/Summer 1960
    - Commercial payload - Summer 1960
    - IRVOS 1 - Summer 1960
    - NAA Communications - Summer/Fall 1960
    - Space Camp test - Summer/Fall 1960
    - NAN payload - Fall/Winter 1960
    - Commercial payload -Winter 1960
    - Astrocathe test - Winter 1960
    - NAA Communications - Spring 1961

    - Astrocaphe phase 1 (3 crewed flights)
    - Astrocaphe phase 2 (3 crewed flights)

    Hardware
    - Prometheus (1M to LEO)
    - Hermes-L (6M to LEO)
    - Hermes-B (8M to LEO)

    Andre Larkin - Team Lead at EPL
    Rocket Design 0
    Engine Design +2


    EPL Design Team
    Antony Miratha, Aerodynamics
    Susan Stone, Astrophysics
    Michael Cole, Rocket Engineering
    Amy Mathews, Trajectory Planning
    Simon T. Harrison, Chemical Engineering

    +2 Rocket Design, +2 Payload Design +1 Engine Design, +1 Fuel Selection, +1 Flight Planning

    Side Characters
    Dr. Evan Hart - Research Director at EPL
    Arthur Ley, proponent of Lunar flight.
    Franz Haber, Doctor and researcher.
    Dieter von Markand, Pacifist and astrophysicist.

    EPL Facilities
    Design workshop
    Chemical research laboratory
    Launch analysis equipment
    (Please note that EPL has neither rocket nor engine manufacturing facilities)
     
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  • Informational
    • Going to Congress publicly about weapons programs sounds like a great way to get half a dozen different agendas tangled up in each other and annoy the Army.
     
    could we offer to pay for them and also try to convince her of the usefulness of satellites for military uses? observation and gps, etc?
     
    midnight77 said:
    could we offer to pay for them and also try to convince her of the usefulness of satellites for military uses? observation and gps, etc?
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    Our satellites and rockets are not good enough for that yet.

    If I recall the units correctly, our entire satellite weights less than 250 kg. All spysats and GPS sats are much heavier.
     
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    After some back of the envelop maths... You're going to need an insertion booster for the last little bump into orbit.
    Oops!

    Rockeye said:
    Going to Congress publicly about weapons programs sounds like a great way to get half a dozen different agendas tangled up in each other and annoy the Army.
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    Congress definitely knows about the big buck programs, even if they don't know details. Don't worry.

    midnight77 said:
    could we offer to pay for them and also try to convince her of the usefulness of satellites for military uses? observation and gps, etc?
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    You could definitely suggest arguing for that. How effective it'll be...
     
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    [x] Offer her our money - Just give us a handful, we'll pay for them. (Medium chance of success)

    Rocketbucket in in threadmark, not informational.
     
    I guess I can roll. Here's hoping it goes well!

    edit: Well... 8 isn't that bad of a total I guess.
    notgreat threw 2 10-faced dice. Reason: 2d10 Total: 8
    1 1 7 7
     
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    C7P8: That didn't go right...
  • Threadmarks
    • "I want you to get her to sell me her damn rockets. We have have a budget, we might as well use it." Brads frustration was evident in the tone of his voice, and he tried to catch himself, "Just do whatever it takes, okay? I need the mustang."

    "You got it Brad. I'll be the first man to ever play General Mayeaux like like a fiddle."


    The reality was, like many things in life, not even nearly that simpler. Several weeks passed at the launch centre on the sweltering Alleghanian coast without a word from anywhere outside. Teams put together real plans for the satellite and the first mock ups of what would become Hope-2 took shape.

    A sharp cone with extending Antennae much like it's predecessor, the new satellite would have longer lasting batteries, more experiments and - Brad hoped - a better chance of working.

    Everything seemed to be going wonderfully until one particularly stifling afternoon when his phone rang. Dropping a report, Brad Lemay lifted the warbling device from its cradle and nestled it into the crook of his shoulder.

    "Lemay speaking." He said curtly, rather aware that he had more time than he knew what to do with but not willing to let that information out of his office.

    "Mr Lemay," An attractive woman's voice trilled in his ear, "I understand you're the one trying to get your hands on my shiniest new toys?"

    Brad's heart stopped. The blood drained from his face. His breath caught in his throat. The voice on the other end of the phone could only be the commander of the strategic forces, General Carolyn Mayeaux. He hadn't recognised her voice - heaven knows he'd never had reason to speak to her before - but there was no mistaking the implication of her words.

    "Oh, uh. Yes, I suppose I am, General." He answered eventually, aware that honesty had merits all its own.

    "Do you believe in the defence of our great nation, Mr Lemay?" she asked with a certain air of bonhomie in her voice.

    "Why yes, of course I do." He hadn't been born here in New Alleghany, but as his adopted home it held a particular place in his heart.

    "And you think that our armed forces should be equipped just as fully as science allows?"

    He could feel the web that she was weaving but he couldn't see it no matter how hard he tried. Brow furrowed, he desperately tried to think of a way to respond and escape in one deft move but could see figure none.

    "Well… yes! General, can I ask-" he started, but she cut him off without pause.

    "Then what exactly brings you to imagine that I will let you simply waltz in and buy our damn rockets!" her voice rose both in pitch and volume until he couldn't tell whether she was shouting or simply furiously reproving. "You have the gall to offer money to satiate the needs of the air force? We cannot stop our enemies with money, Mr Lemay, nor with your ridiculous little project down there. We have atomics for a reason."

    "Ma'am, let me apologise-"

    "I'm not interested in your weasel words, Lemay. You're not getting your hands on the Mustang."

    "There must be something, some sort of arrangement we can come too. Perhaps if we cooperated-" he started, almost pleading and hating himself for it. But that rocket was the best option they had. It was already dragging into mid spring, if NASA was going to make its first launch by the middle of the year, they needed the Mustang.

    "Oh, I see, now you want to work with us." She barked, almost laughing. "No, I've seen what you think of the Air Force. Well here's what I think of your little science experiment - You want rockets, you can buy them. But not the Mustang, no sir. You can buy the Pegasus."

    The B-29 Pegasus, older, smaller, less capable - but proven. A small voice in the back of Brad's head said they could do it. Another said that they should damn the Air Force all together and yet another said it was time to go over Mayeaux's head.

    No Mustang? But perhaps you could;
    [ ] Go to Congress and make a powerful enemy - but at least you'll have your rocket.
    [ ] Buy the Pegasus. It might be older, but it's proven and it will work.
    [ ] Go Elsewhere. There are other options (Choose Army-Hardtack/Navy-Hipparchus/Other)
     
  • Threadmarks
    • Damn.

    I'm pretty sure we don't want the Pegasus. It seems like it's overall worse than the Hardback (Pegasus has higher dV but also a significantly lighter payload, which should approximately cancel out)

    Going to Congress is the route that's definitely good in the short-term but has long-term concerns. I think I'm going to go for
    [X] Go Elsewhere. There are other options (Army-Hardtack)
    Though I do wonder what options are available under "other" there.

    edit: swap to Army Hardtack from Navy Hipparchus.
     
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    [X] Go Elsewhere. There are other options (Other)
    -[X]Request congress to provide for an expanded budget to develop a launch vehicle, noting the "failure of negotiations to use existing technology."
    Rather spiteful, yes, but it's less so than out and out having congress force the issue.
     
    Well, fuck her then. The Pegasus is my second choice in the abstract because I would much rather be burning RP-1, but not by all that much and the Army rocket has more thrust and a stronger structure, which matters since doing anything useful with either of them means adding a new second stage. We have a relatively good relationship with the army, and will probably get a proper deal out of them. If the air force looses out on some prestige for it, so much the better.

    [X] Go Elsewhere. There are other options (Army-Hardtack)
     
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    [X] Go Elsewhere. There are other options (Other)
    -[X]Request congress to provide for an expanded budget to develop a launch vehicle, noting the "failure of negotiations to use existing technology."
     
    [X] Go Elsewhere. There are other options (Other)
    -[X]Request congress to provide for an expanded budget to develop a launch vehicle, noting the "failure of negotiations to use existing technology."
     
    [X] Go Elsewhere. There are other options (Other)
    -[X]Request congress to provide for an expanded budget to develop a launch vehicle, noting the "failure of negotiations to use existing technology."
     
    [X] Go Elsewhere. There are other options (Other)
    -[X]Request congress to provide for an expanded budget to develop a launch vehicle, noting the "failure of negotiations to use existing technology."
     
    I'm wondering about the viability of sticking the Prometheus second stage on top of a hardback as an approach. We've gotten a lot out of that second stage given what we have to work with, and we don't have a ton of time here. Certainly not enough to build something from scratch without falling behind.

    As I see it, we have three core options: Pegasus with a second stage, Hardback with a second stage, or something Prometheus derived with some boosters or a stretched stage or something. Nothing else seems viable in the time we have.
     
    [X] Go Elsewhere. There are other options (Other)
    -[X]Request congress to provide for an expanded budget to develop a launch vehicle, noting the "failure of negotiations to use existing technology."
     
    Maybe it's just me, but asking Congress like that sounds even more confrontational and likely to cause long-term issues.

    Like, if that's what we want to do it's fine, but I suspect it's going to result in the Air Force getting really angry at us and Congress making us use their existing technology anyway.
     
    notgreat said:
    Maybe it's just me, but asking Congress like that sounds even more confrontational and likely to cause long-term issues.

    Like, if that's what we want to do it's fine, but I suspect it's going to result in the Air Force getting really angry at us and Congress making us use their existing technology anyway.
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    The original idea behind that was actually something a bit less than that, as it means either we get more money (Congress agrees with request) and another design process or we get the mustang anyway (Congress digs into the negotiations thing), while at least the former goal doesn't much hurt the Air Force (for we're not saying "they were dicks," we're saying "our goals unfortunately could not be aligned in a mutually satisfactory way" or similarly unhostile phrasing) while the latter result means we can point to Congress as a scapegoat for blame to some degree.
     
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    Another thing: it is currently April 1958. We are supposed to launch a satellite to orbit this summer. That isn't enough time to build a launch vehicle from scratch. It shouldn't even be enough time for major changes to an existing one, but the early space program was sometimes kind of crazy like that. If we do another design process, we are going to fall way behind schedule. We need to either stick another already existing stage on top of one of the single stage missiles, get the Mustang or revisit the Prometheus. We don't have time for something clean sheet.

    ... I may just take this opportunity to actually dig into the rules a little and see what we can do.
     
    Several posters have hit upon the correct answer. There is not time to do a clean sheet design before your launch window comes around. Indeed, to do so might lose you a year or more, and 1959... well that's to be an interesting year I'm sure.
    Congress is not that space happy that they do not know that existing hardware could be functional.
     
    Hey everyone. I just ran some numbers. Turns out everything we have to work with is flat out worse than the Prometheus first stage. Putting a prometheus second stage on a pegasus would work from a delta v perspective but would be harder, more expensive and less effective. A hardback doesn't have enough thrust to get off the ground with that second stage, so we'd need to add boosters. The Prometheus is good enough for this payload, and has plenty of room in the thrust to weight ratio to stretch a stage or add a third stage if we want to lift more with it later. Duplicating the second stage works surprisingly well, in fact. If the cone shape as the rocket narrows is an aerodynamic fairing rather than the actual shape of the stage 2 tanks, that could perhaps be viable.

    (Why am I assuming the use of the prometheus second stage, you ask? Because it is the only good second stage we have access to, the isp is comparatively excellent, and we have optimized it to hell and back. Frankly, we'd be stupid not to use it given our time constraints.)

    The Pegasus has some nice tech improvements, but isn't actually a better first stage and isn't much more extendable either. I vote that we just revive the Prometheus for now, tinker with it for more payload when we need that in future missions, and then build a proper rocket later on when we can.

    [X] Go Elsewhere. There are other options (bring back the Prometheus)
     
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