Castles of Steel - Lesbians Good, Imperialism Bad

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Lieutenant Arisukawa Haruna

Balance Stats
❁ • ❁ Work / Life ❁ • ❁
❁ • ❁ Warrior / Princess ❁ • ❁
❁ • ❁ Radical / Respectable ❁ • ❁

Tactical Stats
Gunnery 0, Navigation +2, Command +2, Technology -4, Personal -2, Strategy +3

Stress: 3​


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PLEASE READ THE QUEST RULES BELOW

You collectively vote on the actions of Arisukawa Haruna, the first woman to serve openly in the Imperial Akitsukuni Navy.

This quest is set in a universe which is much like our own circa 1910, but with different politics, cultural norms, and ideas about gender and sexuality, as well as some unusual and advanced technology in places.

We are using this quest to explore themes like breaking the glass ceiling, divergent outlooks on gender and sexuality, colonialism and imperialism, and the place of royalty.

Content Warning
This quest goes some dark places.

There is violence, often explicit, often unfair, often against undeserving targets.

There are not always good options forward. The protagonist is not necessarily a good person.

There is implied content and discussion of sexual harassment and assault.

This is a world where people are often racist, sexist, queerphobic bigots. Sometimes, even the PC and the people they are friends with.

Voting Rules

We will tell you if write-in votes are allowed. If we do not say that write-ins are allowed, they are not. This is to prevent people from unrealistically hedging their bets.

You may proposal other options in a non-vote format, subject to approval, on non write-in votes.

We will tell you when a vote allows approved voting. If we don't say the answer is no, pick an option. We like making people commit.

Discussions makes the GM feel fuzzy.

Game Rules
When we ask you for a roll, roll 3d6. You are aiming to roll equal or under the value of your stat. If you succeed, Haruna gets through the situation with no real difficulties. If you roll above the target value, Haruna will still succeed, but this success will cost her something or add a complication.

Whenever Haruna loses something or faces hardship from a botched roll, she takes Stress. The more Stress Haruna has, the more the job and the circumstances she's in will get to her, and it'll be reflected in the narrative. Haruna must be kept under 10 Stress: if she reaches 10 Stress, she will suffer a breakdown and the results will not be great for her.

Haruna loses stress by taking time for herself, by making meaningful progress on her dreams, and by kissing tall, beautiful women.

Meta Rules
Author commentary is in italics so you know it's not story stuff.

Please don't complain about the system or the fact we have to roll dice. We've heard it before, we've heard it a thousand times across multiple quests. We're not going to change it, and it wears at our fucking souls.

Just going "oh noooo" or "Fish RNGesus Why!" is fun and fine. Complaining at length because you didn't get what you want less so.

If you have a question, tag both @open_sketchbook and @Artificial Girl. If you only tag one of us, you will be ignored. Seriously, we both write this quest.

And yes this is an alt-history type setting with openly gay and trans people, ahistoric medicine, and weird politics. Just... deal, please?

This quest employs a special system called Snippet Votes. Please read this post for more information.
 
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Crasian01 said:
That's certainly fair. I think blaming the press is the least bad is all.
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Blaming the press will offend some of the same Navy officers we're sending this report to, because the press members in question are Purity Club and the Purity Club has disturbingly strong ties to the Navy.

Blaming an army captain will offend the army, who are not in our chain of command. The army captain himself wasn't in our chain of command, he was just the senior officer present and thus in command of the joint Army-Navy detachment by default.

...

Furthermore... "blame the press" has three votes compared to 12 for "the captain" and 10 for "ourselves." Let's be frank, it's not winning; tactical voting may be called for.
 
[X] Yourself: For who else is there? You could have made your objection more stringent or insisted that the schedule be kept or found a way to avoid this becoming the bloodbath that it had.
Adhoc vote count started by Karlito on Nov 27, 2018 at 2:47 PM, finished with 139 posts and 27 votes.
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Simon_Jester said:
If we blame Captain Ienaga, the Army will be mad and may lash back at us.
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The way I see it, we are not blaming the Army, we are blaming a specific individual.

In a real way, us having to rescue ourselves was a great failing on his part as the one responsible for our safety. He was supposed to rescue us, not the other way around.

So he personally takes the blame, and hopefully doesn't decide to clean his honor through suicide.
Estro said:
You do remember what the other option in the vote was? You do recall how our death was not, in fact, what we were voting for? You do, in fact, acknowledge that the lives of civilians under your schema are worth less than the lives of soldiers?
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We had to choose between our soldiers lives and the protesters actively attacking us.

We had to choose between one and the other, and we made the only choice anyone with an ounce of respect for their position as officer would do. We looked out for our boys.

And even then, we were as gentle as we could. We could have done this with zero injuries on our side by shooting the crowd, but we didn't because we aren't monsters.
 
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[X] Yourself: For who else is there? You could have made your objection more stringent or insisted that the schedule be kept or found a way to avoid this becoming the bloodbath that it had.
 
[X] Captain Ienaga: His acquiescence to a foolish request for political gain caused the riot.

I distinctly remember we were invited by surprise to this event. We didn't have any control over the planning and security of the event and a Naval ensign, even a princess, had no authority over an Army Captain in charge of security. We didn't want to do the photo shoot and when we tried to politely tell the man in charge of the security of our concerns he didn't take the hint. When the shit hit the fan we were left with the mess.
 
For the record, this was our objection, after we were asked about the photo:

"I don't suppose it could hurt. Unless Captain Ienaga thinks that we need to keep to our schedule?"

So we foisted the choice off on the Captain. Or rather we tried to hint a very subtle way that only servants who have spent a lifetime around us and people like us would have picked up on, of which the Captain was neither. The Princess made the choice to not make a firm choice.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
The way I see it, we are not blaming the Army, we are blaming a specific individual.
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I mean, I don't even disagree with you, but Crasian seems a bit worried about worst-case scenarios, so I'm trying to point out that in one worst-case scenario we anger officers who aren't in our chain of command, while in the other scenario we anger officers who are or soon will be.

We had to choose between our soldiers lives and the protesters actively attacking us.

We had to choose between one and the other, and we made the only choice anyone with an ounce of respect for their position as officer would do. We looked out for our boys.

And even then, we were as gentle as we could. We could have done this with zero injuries on our side by shooting the crowd, but we didn't because we aren't monsters.
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Indeed.

I will observe that someone whose conscience does not allow themselves to divide the world into 'us' and 'them,' or someone who can't bring themselves to order the rest of 'us' to use deadly force on some of 'them,' should not be a military officer in the first place.

Because that is the single greatest keystone responsibility an officer has: to direct an organized 'us' in the use of violence against such 'thems' as the nation finds occasion to use violence against.

A person who can't do that should resign their commission as an officer.

Given that Haruna does not apparently intend to resign, it is exceedingly out-of-character to play her as if she is the kind of person who has serious trouble deciding "so, who dies, them or us" in a violent confrontation between 'them' and 'us.'

Rat King said:
For the record, this was our objection, after we were asked about the photo:

"I don't suppose it could hurt. Unless Captain Ienaga thinks that we need to keep to our schedule?"

So we foisted the choice off on the Captain. Or rather we tried to hint a very subtle way that only servants who have spent a lifetime around us and people like us would have picked up on, of which the Captain was neither. The Princess made the choice to not make a firm choice.
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I'm not seeing the part where "only servants who have spent a lifetime around us" are capable of that level of subtlety. That part seems to be something you filled in.

Furthermore, it was still his decision to make, not ours. In theory the princess could have made enough of a stink to derail the photo op. But the captain could have done the same.

The princess could have noted the mood of the crowd. But as the most junior officer present, the princess did not have the relevant experience to accurately gauge the mood of the crowd. Whereas the captain is expected to have the ability to do this, and as head of a security detail in the presence of a foreign crowd, he was expected to use that ability.

Every argument for why WE should take responsibility works at least as well as an argument for why HE should take responsibility.
 
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Simon_Jester said:
I mean, I don't even disagree with you, but Crasian seems a bit worried about worst-case scenarios, so I'm trying to point out that in one worst-case scenario we anger officers who aren't in our chain of command, while in the other scenario we anger officers who are or soon will be.

Indeed.

I will observe that someone whose conscience does not allow themselves to divide the world into 'us' and 'them,' or someone who can't bring themselves to order the rest of 'us' to use deadly force on some of 'them,' should not be a military officer in the first place.

Because that is the single greatest keystone responsibility an officer has: to direct an organized 'us' in the use of violence against such 'thems' as the nation finds occasion to use violence against.

A person who can't do that should resign their commission as an officer.

Given that Haruna does not apparently intend to resign, it is exceedingly out-of-character to play her as if she is the kind of person who has serious trouble deciding "so, who dies, them or us" in a violent confrontation between 'them' and 'us.'
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It's not that she has a hard time deciding, it's that her conception of how and when she would make that decision is at odds with the reality she ended up having to face. She thought that she would face an enemy in open battle on the high seas where each side had armor and guns. Something that would be easy to internally justify as honorable combat or the way things are supposed to be.

Instead she had to deal with an angry crowd and a scared platoon of soldiers and sailors.
 
[X] Yourself: For who else is there? You could have made your objection more stringent or insisted that the schedule be kept or found a way to avoid this becoming the bloodbath that it had.
 
Simon_Jester said:
I'm not seeing the part where "only servants who have spent a lifetime around us" are capable of that level of subtlety. That part seems to be something you filled in.

Furthermore, it was still his decision to make, not ours. In theory the princess could have made enough of a stink to derail the photo op. But as the most junior officer present, the princess did not have the relevant experience to accurately gauge the mood of the crowd, whereas the captain is expected to have the ability to do this.

Every argument for why WE should take responsibility works at least as well as an argument for why HE should take responsibility.
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Here's the whole extract:

"Your Imperial Highness, my colleague and I were hoping we could get one more photograph," the man said with a warm smile, gesturing at the man next to him who was carrying a camera.

"I don't suppose it could hurt. Unless Captain Ienaga thinks that we need to keep to our schedule?" HINT HINT. If this were one of the attendants back home they would have realized right away that meant you wanted an excuse not to do this. Sadly, Captain Ienaga was a mere Army officer.

"Hm? Oh, no, we should have plenty of time," he said and glanced at his watch. "Yes, it shouldn't be a problem." The Navy being let down by the Army. What a surprise.

"Well, there you have it," you said with more cheer than you actually felt. "What sort of picture did you want?"

Like it's a request from a press photographer. She could've said no and it would've been fine. It's not like Ienga was married to the idea of GETTING EVERY PHOTO POSSIBLE and was going to glare at her if she refused. He's casual as hell about it.
Adhoc vote count started by Rat King on Nov 27, 2018 at 3:02 PM, finished with 149 posts and 30 votes.
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I'd also say that, frankly, I think it'd be surprising if Haruna In-Character wasn't the sort of person to blame herself.
 
Simon_Jester said:
The princess could have noted the mood of the crowd. But as the most junior officer present, the princess did not have the relevant experience to accurately gauge the mood of the crowd.
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Not to mention her political training involves identifying who's siding with who by how they place their teacups after a particular statement.

Not to be abreast of the political situation in a foreign port and read the manerisms of a foreign crowd.
 
HMS Sophia said:
I'd also say that, frankly, I think it'd be surprising if Haruna In-Character wasn't the sort of person to blame herself.
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It's fine to feel guilty, tho she should eventually come to understand she acted in as reasonable a manner as she could.

What's not fine is shooting her career in the head as a way to try and absolve herself, because there's far more that's riding on her career than her personal success.

Half her motivation has felt like setting the example that women can and should serve in the Navy.
 
Artificial Girl said:
It's not that she has a hard time deciding, it's that her conception of how and when she would make that decision is at odds with the reality she ended up having to face. She thought that she would face an enemy in open battle on the high seas where each side had armor and guns. Something that would be easy to internally justify as honorable combat or the way things are supposed to be.

Instead she had to deal with an angry crowd and a scared platoon of soldiers and sailors.
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Just to be clear, I understand and respect that and I totally get why she is having trouble processing what has happened.

What I'm saying is, I don't think coming around after the fact and saying "it would have been better to let our soldiers and sailors die, than to give the orders Haruna actually gave" can reasonably be interpreted as a plausible in-character thought or justification for Haruna's actions.

I'm not saying Haruna isn't or shouldn't be troubled by what happened and by her involvement in it.

But in the specific context of responding to other people's arguments motivated by OOC political views about internationalism, pacifism, anticolonialism, and so forth... Well, I'm not saying such opinions are objectively wrong in this situation. Only that I'm pretty sure they're out of character for Haruna, because she's not a fanatical adherent of anticolonialist pacifist internationalism to such an extent as to be willing to condemn herself and other people who trust her to die for the sake of her beliefs.

Or at least, she hasn't been shaped into such a person by the quest to date, and if she were such a person then she'd probably have resigned her naval commission because she could not in good conscience retain it.
 
Rat King said:
Like it's a request from a press photographer. She could've said no and it would've been fine. It's not like Ienga was married to the idea of GETTING EVERY PHOTO POSSIBLE and was going to glare at her if she refused. He's casual as hell about it.
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Yup. Also, she didn't try to get out of it because she expected danger. She wanted to get out because she wanted to get lunch, and didn't like the Purity Club.
 
Rat King said:
Here's the whole extract:

"Your Imperial Highness, my colleague and I were hoping we could get one more photograph," the man said with a warm smile, gesturing at the man next to him who was carrying a camera.

"I don't suppose it could hurt. Unless Captain Ienaga thinks that we need to keep to our schedule?" HINT HINT. If this were one of the attendants back home they would have realized right away that meant you wanted an excuse not to do this. Sadly, Captain Ienaga was a mere Army officer.

"Hm? Oh, no, we should have plenty of time," he said and glanced at his watch. "Yes, it shouldn't be a problem." The Navy being let down by the Army. What a surprise.

"Well, there you have it," you said with more cheer than you actually felt. "What sort of picture did you want?"

Like it's a request from a press photographer. She could've said no and it would've been fine. It's not like Ienga was married to the idea of GETTING EVERY PHOTO POSSIBLE and was going to glare at her if she refused. He's casual as hell about it.
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You know saving face is a thing in this society right? The Imperial Princess telling a particular reporter to piss off can be seen as extremely rude and humiliating to the Purity Party. Haruna has been trained as a politician so she's trained to find the most polite way to exit from an uncomfortable situation and after her only out shut down her ability to escape she decided to bare through it rather than make a scandal. If she knew it would cause a riot I'm pretty sure she would have gotten the hell out of there, she didn't and the photograph became the straw that broke the camels back. At no point did she want to kill anyone, those circumstances were forced upon her.
 
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10ebbor10 said:
Yup. Also, she didn't try to get out of it because she expected danger. She wanted to get out because she wanted to get lunch, and didn't like the Purity Club.
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Yes. It didn't even cross Haruna's mind to anticipate danger, because she is inexperienced. She has not had years of service in Joseon or other overseas colonial dependencies of Akitsukuni.

Which is kind of my point. If the older more experienced infantry captain could not reasonably be expected to foresee the consequences of raising an Akitsukuni flag in front of that crowd... how on Gaya could a younger, less experienced ensign not six months out of the naval academy be expected to foresee those consequences and avert them?

Even if Haruna had opposed the photo shoot given the information and motives she had at the time, and if this had led to the riot not taking place. It would have been entirely a matter of blind luck on her part, not her somehow carrying out her duties as a naval officer to a higher standard.

HMS Sophia said:
I'd also say that, frankly, I think it'd be surprising if Haruna In-Character wasn't the sort of person to blame herself.
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I mean, I can totally see her feelings pushing her that way, but you don't get to Subterfuge 14 without having at least some capacity to look at a situation with some detachment.

If this were say, Lt. Mikhailova over from your quest, I would see "counterproductive self-blame" as a far more rational probable reaction. I think Ensign Arisukawa has a bit more self-hardening against letting herself assign an internal locus of control to blame herself for externally created problems.

('rational' is not the word I wanted, 'probable' is)

Crasian01 said:
That's actually a very interesting point.
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Thank you.

In any case, between the fact that 'blame the press' isn't realistically going to win the vote at this point, and the precise nature of who and how we might potentially anger other officers depending on how our report works, and on the probable consequences of giving offense to those officers... Well, I suggest that you think this over, is all.
 
Estro said:
You do remember what the other option in the vote was? You do recall how our death was not, in fact, what we were voting for? You do, in fact, acknowledge that the lives of civilians under your schema are worth less than the lives of soldiers?
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You realize that by law the lives of innocent individuals under threat of violence and death are worth more than the lives of those doing the threatening? In practically every legal system?

Rat King said:
So we foisted the choice off on the Captain. Or rather we tried to hint a very subtle way that only servants who have spent a lifetime around us and people like us would have picked up on, of which the Captain was neither. The Princess made the choice to not make a firm choice.
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Correction, the Princess made the choice to signal very clearly to a member of the staff that anything but doing this was the preferred outcome. Unfortunately, Captain Ienaga is an IAA officer rather than a member of the Imperial Household Agency and as such read the ensign's hint wrong. He read 'this junior officer doesn't want to do this but is willing,' and in his judgement as the senior officer decided 'the ensign will do her part,' rather than 'Her Highness the Princess Haruna is refusing this request and wants you to provide a face saving excuse' and saying 'oh we are very sorry, but there's a previous engagement that needs to be attended to.'
 
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Simon_Jester said:
If this were say, Lt. Mikhailova over from your quest, I would see "counterproductive self-blame" as a far more rational probable reaction. I think Ensign Arisukawa has a bit more self-hardening against letting herself assign an internal locus of control to blame herself for externally created problems.
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:D:D:D
You are absolutely correct.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Just to be clear, I understand and respect that and I totally get why she is having trouble processing what has happened.

What I'm saying is, I don't think coming around after the fact and saying "it would have been better to let our soldiers and sailors die, than to give the orders Haruna actually gave" can reasonably be interpreted as a plausible in-character thought or justification for Haruna's actions.

I'm not saying Haruna isn't or shouldn't be troubled by what happened and by her involvement in it.

But in the specific context of responding to other people's arguments motivated by OOC political views about internationalism, pacifism, anticolonialism, and so forth... Well, I'm not saying such opinions are objectively wrong in this situation. Only that I'm pretty sure they're out of character for Haruna, because she's not a fanatical adherent of anticolonialist pacifist internationalism to such an extent as to be willing to condemn herself and other people who trust her to die for the sake of her beliefs.

Or at least, she hasn't been shaped into such a person by the quest to date, and if she were such a person then she'd probably have resigned her naval commission because she could not in good conscience retain it.
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I don't think anyone is saying that Haruna would think that? She's not anticolonialist at the moment--she's quite proud of the 'good work' Akitsukuni is doing in 'guiding' and 'protecting' Joseon. Nor is she a pacifist of any stripe. She just has a hard time justifying having to shank a bunch of people that she considers as like, subjects/people to be protected and guided by her family.

That she can justify it eventually doesn't mean that she likes justifying it. In her mind, it was very much a no-win situation in that people were getting hurt or killed no matter what she did. And they were getting hurt and killed in a situation she was not mentally or emotionally ready for in the same way she is for ship-to-ship combat.

So she doesn't blame herself necessarily for the deaths. Circumstance is thrust upon us and all that. But she does see a way she could have avoided them and is kind of obsessing over that because the Imperial family is supposed to be wise and have foresight and she failed to do so in a way that feels huge to her and that impacted her directly.
 
Estro said:
Yes. I do.

remind me again which of those two were soldiers.
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The people under threat of violence and death?

Do not make the mistake of presuming that just because people are soldiers they're inherently the aggressor. Even when they are the occupying force. The legal system does not work that way.

You would have a point if the soldiers fixed bayonets and charged and/or started shooting at a peaceful protest no matter how outnumbered they were, but they did not.
 
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