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Deus Pater (Exalted/40k)

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[X] Philosophy. Construct a system of quotes, teachings and doctrine from across the ages that can be used to justify your new approach. Such a change of belief will be wide-reaching and thorough, but requires more time to convey and is easier for other priests to engage with and attack.
 
chocolote12 said:
I'm not sure about the reliability of this source, but this seems like an interesting charm for a setting where gratuitous murder is the flavor of every other day.

Positive Intimacy: Guardsmen Being Mauled By Unfairly Large Things might be very useful to us.
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Guardsman: I hope Ignatius doesn't pick up that charm.
Guardsman2: We die enough as is!

As for the votes? Well, I MIGHT Have said philosophy but well, TenfoldShields has convinced me.
[X] Defiance. Established doctrine is wrong, and the words of the Ecclesiarchy a betrayal of the God they claim to revere. Such a clean break makes further changes a lot easier to introduce, but makes you much more vulnerable to accusations of heresy and invites direct opposition.
 
...

@Maugan Ra - To what extent have you scaled the, well, scale of Solar Bureaucratic Charms and the like?

Because as kind of lame as it may be to let this decision rest on mechanics, it really is a question of ability as far as I'm concerned.

Can we defend ourselves with absurdly superhuman ability even as the people actually doing the defending are two, three, six degrees of separation away from us? Can we throw the full absurd power of our psuedo-Exaltation around on the scale of planets or sectors?

Or do we ultimately end up playing the same game as everyone else, roughly speaking?

Something I want to point out is that in canon, the Emperor never had Bureaucracy Charms, or at least never wanted to use them (they can get pretty close to psychic mind control in effect, after all.) If we a) can and b) will, we absolutely can do better than the Emperor, rule, change, and optimize the entire Imperium better than the Emperor did, at the cost of being, uh, rather more blunt with our powers and making the Imperium even more dependent on a single person. -- But I mean, basically nothing a Solar does will ever make their people less dependent on them, so. *shrug* Kind of a lost cause already.
 
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[X] Defiance. Established doctrine is wrong, and the words of the Ecclesiarchy a betrayal of the God they claim to revere. Such a clean break makes further changes a lot easier to introduce, but makes you much more vulnerable to accusations of heresy and invites direct opposition.
 
[X] Philosophy. Construct a system of quotes, teachings and doctrine from across the ages that can be used to justify your new approach. Such a change of belief will be wide-reaching and thorough, but requires more time to convey and is easier for other priests to engage with and attack.
 
Methinks Defiance will be the deathknell of this quest.

We are not winning a rebellion against the IOM. And likely once the very real and very costly consequences of naked defiance come up many people will be turned off.

So... A brief torrent of violence and blood shed followed by immense shame and then death by exterminatus.

Eh.

Also we really should have picked the navy first if you were gonna go for this. Since the next question following this one will probably be something along the lines of "how do we keep the navy from blowing us up?"
 
zxzx24 said:
Methinks Defiance will be the deathknell of this quest.

We are not winning a rebellion against the IOM. And likely once the very real and very costly consequences of naked defiance come up many people will be turned off.

So... A brief torrent of violence and blood shed followed by immense shame and then death by exterminatus.
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Man, Maugan literally said like two updates ago that he didn't do trap options

Yall are cowards

[X] DEFIANCE
 
[X] Defiance. Established doctrine is wrong, and the words of the Ecclesiarchy a betrayal of the God they claim to revere. Such a clean break makes further changes a lot easier to introduce, but makes you much more vulnerable to accusations of heresy and invites direct opposition.

Half measures will only hurt in the long run.
 
zxzx24 said:
We are not winning a rebellion against the IOM. And likely once the very real and very costly consequences of naked defiance come up many people will be turned off.
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Nah, we can pull it off. The Imperium can level an awful lot of violence, sure, but it's a cumbersome, inefficient thing. By way of example, the Damocles Gulf Crusade is reckoned as slow to gear up, but actually unusually swift by Imperial standards, and it took like ten years to get going and five months to arrive. That's a long time for a Solar to put their house in order.
 
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Imrix said:
Nah, we can pull it off. The Imperium can level an awful lot of violence, sure, but it's a cumbersome, inefficient thing. By way of example, the Damocles Gulf Crusade is reckoned as slow to gear up, but actually unusually swift by Imperial standards, and it took like ten years to get going and five months to arrive. That's a long time for a Solar to put their house in order.
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Similarly the vast majority of that fighting force are, through sheer numerical density, going to mostly comprise 1. People the Imperial Navy has impressed into service and 2. People the Imperial Guard has conscripted into service. There'll definitely be volunteers sure, and crack fighting forces and Space Marines and God knows the boys in red aren't anything to fuck with. But we have the Sororitas, we can reasonably expect to get at least some number of Space Marines onboard absent the usual, uh, structural issues that come with chugging Chaos. And the rank and file of the enemy are going to be super vulnerable to, like, Ignatius standing on a gigantic golden warmech and giving a thunderous sermon on the sin of toiling in the service of cruel, uncaring gods.

Which we can somewhat reasonably expect to hit the people who Don't Want To Be Here like a fucking warship.

Solar bullshit and a comparatively small front to defend (a sector-or-three-at-most) means that taking this place might legitimately shatter an Imperial Crusade in a pretty spectacular way. At least, as @Imrix said, once we get our shit in gear.
 
TenfoldShields said:
Similarly the vast majority of that fighting force are, through sheer numerical density, going to mostly comprise 1. People the Imperial Navy has impressed into service and 2. People the Imperial Guard has conscripted into service. There'll definitely be volunteers sure, and crack fighting forces and Space Marines and God knows the boys in red aren't anything to fuck with. But we have the Sororitas, we can reasonably expect to get at least some number of Space Marines onboard absent the usual, uh, structural issues that come with chugging Chaos. And the rank and file of the enemy are going to be super vulnerable to, like, Ignatius standing on a gigantic golden warmech and giving a thunderous sermon on the sin of toiling in the service of cruel, uncaring gods.

Which we can somewhat reasonably expect to hit the people who Don't Want To Be Here like a fucking warship.

Solar bullshit and a comparatively small front to defend (a sector-or-three-at-most) means that taking this place might legitimately shatter an Imperial Crusade in a pretty spectacular way. At least, as @Imrix said, once we get our shit in gear.
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Even if we fail, it's going to be fucking awesome.
 
[X] Philosophy. Construct a system of quotes, teachings and doctrine from across the ages that can be used to justify your new approach. Such a change of belief will be wide-reaching and thorough, but requires more time to convey and is easier for other priests to engage with and attack.
 
Yeah, I'm not... if we don't make too many dumb decisions (a big if to be sure :V), we can absolutely make Defiance work, just make our sector of the galaxy a better place to live than the whole rest of it. And if that's the best we can do, then that's the best we can do.

--- But if there's one thing the Chosen of the Emperor should not lack in, it is hubris. If we can target the entire galaxy, the entire Imperium, we should.
 
[X] Philosophy. Construct a system of quotes, teachings and doctrine from across the ages that can be used to justify your new approach. Such a change of belief will be wide-reaching and thorough, but requires more time to convey and is easier for other priests to engage with and attack.
 
TenfoldShields said:
And the rank and file of the enemy are going to be super vulnerable to, like, Ignatius standing on a gigantic golden warmech and giving a thunderous sermon on the sin of toiling in the service of cruel, uncaring gods.

Which we can somewhat reasonably expect to hit the people who Don't Want To Be Here like a fucking warship.
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I'm picturing like, Ignatius standing on a converted Reaper Titan, booming out pronouncements across miles. Back-mounted weapons removed in favour of a giant lectern-stage, full Sororitas-style battle-hardened church organs for backing, arm cannons replaced with subwoofers the size of apartment complexes. Start with this and churchify it up, y'know? Shit's gonna be hardcore.
 
[X] Revelation. Present your new philosophy as a direct command from the Emperor himself. This is the easiest explanation for the average citizen to accept, but it is also self-contained; any change will be focused and limited to the precise topics of the 'vision', for better or worse.
 
[X] Philosophy. Construct a system of quotes, teachings and doctrine from across the ages that can be used to justify your new approach. Such a change of belief will be wide-reaching and thorough, but requires more time to convey and is easier for other priests to engage with and attack.
 
Imrix said:
I'm picturing like, Ignatius standing on a converted Reaper Titan, booming out pronouncements across miles. Back-mounted weapons removed in favour of a giant lectern-stage, full Sororitas-style battle-hardened church organs for backing, arm cannons replaced with subwoofers the size of apartment complexes. Start with this and churchify it up, y'know? Shit's gonna be hardcore.
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So basically go full Nonon, is what I'm hearing. :V

 
It seems to me that the 'right' long term strategy is to use all of the options... one after the next. Set the philosophical foundation stones with varying degrees of revelationism as punctuation, rebuilding dogma whole and healthy, and bring on the defiance in the face of the worst excesses and they come to your doorstep. Each thing building on the next.
 
Ya I mean honestly not using all of these options seems like such a waste.

Like, nail it to the fucking door, but also give an explanation as to why you came to this conclusion.
 
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