Deus Pater (Exalted/40k)

[X] Pride - You remember the Emperor's greatest triumphs, the deeds that pleased him most. Some were his own, some were performed by others, all hold a special place in his heart.

[X] Pride - You remember the Emperor's greatest triumphs, the deeds that pleased him most. Some were his own, some were performed by others, all hold a special place in his heart.

GOGO CARDINAL LUCIFER

[X] Pride - You remember the Emperor's greatest triumphs, the deeds that pleased him most. Some were his own, some were performed by others, all hold a special place in his heart.

[X] Pride - You remember the Emperor's greatest triumphs, the deeds that pleased him most. Some were his own, some were performed by others, all hold a special place in his heart.

[X] Grief - You remember all that the Emperor most regretted, his greatest sorrows and self-perceived failures. The grief of an immortal is a terrible thing indeed, and oh, there is so much...

Knew the sorrows of your God.

[X] Pride

eh, fuck it
[X] Pride - You remember the Emperor's greatest triumphs, the deeds that pleased him most. Some were his own, some were performed by others, all hold a special place in his heart.

[X] Pride

Katarsiis said:

Knew the sorrows of your God.

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y'realize that there's probably going to be some significantly deleterious effects from injecting divine depression straight into our soul right, like this kinda sorrow is by definition crippling when it isn't of the scale and scope of "Emperor of Mankind after a super bad 10k years". it's got the potential to be informative sure but carrying around a bundle of deeply personal trauma is going to be scarring first and foremost rather than, like i said, a useful diagram of "Here's Everything I Did Wrong". it's from the big golden boy's POV and heavily distorted by his own perceptions.

"how i fucked up as a father: a memoir" might be useful if we ever have a ten foot tall tyke called Horus but outside of that it's mostly just an enduring reminder of "that time everything went wrong and i didn't realize it until it was too late that i've been torturing myself over for the past ten millennia"

TenfoldShields said:

y'realize that there's probably going to be some significantly deleterious effects from injecting divine depression straight into our soul right, like this kinda sorrow is by definition crippling when it isn't of the scale and scope of "Emperor of Mankind after a super bad 10k years". it's informative sure but carrying around a bundle of deeply personal trauma is going to be scarring rather than, like i said, a useful diagram of "Here's Everything I Did Wrong". it's from the big golden boy's POV and heavily distorted by his own perceptions.

"how i fucked up as a father: a memoir" might be useful if we ever have a ten foot tall tyke called Horus but outside of that it's mostly just an enduring reminder of "that time everything went wrong and i didn't realize it until it was too late that i've been torturing myself over for the past ten millennia"

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Yes, because having the pride of a god, in a man trying to be humble and reform the Imperium lead by super arrogant assholes, is such a good idea.

Nix's Warden said:

Yes, because having the pride of a god, in a man trying to be humble and reform the Imperium lead by super arrogant assholes, is such a good idea.

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Nnnnoooot appreciating the condescension man. It's not really warranted and, tbh, not much of an argument on its own. I mean yeah it's not a great idea sure I'll cop to that. But it's a bit rich to say that any of them are, given how weird and fundamentally alien the God Emperor is. A slice of his Wrath or his Pride or his Grief is going to be deeply influential in a passive way and ngl I'm not super enamored with the prospect of "Ignatius is at times too overwhelmed by the second-hand-yet-so-familiar grief that he finds himself incapable of accomplishing much". Not to say that, like, depression can't work as a character trait, God no, but rather that it's not going to inherently make Ignatius a better person and will be, when it surges to the fore, as deeply debilitating or personality altering as any of the other options. And no less destructive overall.

Suffering doesn't necessarily make you a more enlightened or informed person. What doesn't kill you sometimes just makes you wish you were dead y'know? It's part of why I prefer Pride actually, because even when he's slipping into it he's still going out and doing things rather than being so overcome that he has to stage a strategic retreat from the world. And it's inherently confrontational and challenging, since it's so orthogonal to how he normally approaches things and that in and of itself has significant value.

Beyond that: I've seen different people use Past Lives in different ways but it's generally not regarded as a straight one-to-one overwriting but rather a kind of...graft? Like a metaphysical organ transplant to use a sorta ham-handed analogy. And how it manifests can range from anything like weird quirks of the subconscious that Igantius has to learn how to recognize and manage to random memories and dream-visions cropping up to "we sometimes see a more handsome Ignatius with golden seraphim wings telling us about how cool it is to put our face on shit". So the implication that Ignatius will abruptly 180 and go full cliche is a bit of a reach. Especially when, imo, it's more likely that sometimes Ignatius will just be challenged, either overtly or subconsciously, by humanity's own self-made Satan.

And I'm into that really.

TenfoldShields said:

Nnnnoooot appreciating the condescension man. It's not really warranted and, tbh, not much of an argument on its own. I mean yeah it's not a great idea sure I'll cop to that. But it's a bit rich to say that any of them are, given how weird and fundamentally alien the God Emperor is. A slice of his Wrath or his Pride or his Grief is going to be deeply influential in a passive way and ngl I'm not super enamored with the prospect of "Ignatius is at times too overwhelmed by the second-hand-yet-so-familiar grief that he finds himself incapable of accomplishing much". Not to say that, like, depression can't work as a character trait, God no, but rather that it's not going to inherently make Ignatius a better person and will be, when it surges to the fore, as deeply debilitating or personality altering as any of the other options. And no less destructive overall.

Suffering doesn't necessarily make you a more enlightened or informed person. What doesn't kill you sometimes just makes you wish you were dead y'know? It's part of why I prefer Pride actually, even when he's slipping into it he's still going out and doing things rather than being so overcome that he has to stage a strategic retreat from the world. And it's inherently confrontational and challenging, since it's so orthogonal to how he normally approaches things and that in and of itself has significant value.

Beyond that: I've seen different people use Past Lives in different ways but it's generally not regarded as a straight one-to-one overwriting but rather a kind of...graft? Like a metaphysical organ transplant to use a sorta ham-handed analogy. And how it manifests can range from anything like weird quirks of the subconscious that Igantius has to learn how to recognize and manage to random memories and dream-visions cropping up to "we sometimes see a more handsome Ignatius with golden seraphim wings telling us about how cool it is to put our face on shit". So the implication that Ignatius will abruptly 180 and go full cliche is a bit of a reach. Especially when, imo, it's more likely that sometimes Ignatius will just be challenged, either overtly or subconsciously, by humanity's own self-made Satan.

And I'm into that really.

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You realize that pretty much every bad point you just listed for Grief can be put up for Pride just as easily? Heck even more so. Yeah Grief can be at times overpowering but atleast it doesn't drive people to make the kind of choices pride does. We've seen what Pride has done for Humanity, the kind of 'I know BETTER then everyone else, I AM BETTER then everyone else, only I and I ALONE can save the Imperium yadayda' that we see so much in 40K. I'd rather play a guy with crippling depression, but still trying to do his best, then a prideful man with the powers of a god trying to save humanity from itself because only HE can.

[X] Grief - You remember all that the Emperor most regretted, his greatest sorrows and self-perceived failures. The grief of an immortal is a terrible thing indeed, and oh, there is so much...

Nix's Warden said:

You realize that pretty much every bad point you just listed for Grief can be put up for Pride just as easily? Heck even more so. Yeah Grief can be at times overpowering but atleast it doesn't drive people to make the kind of choices pride does. We've seen what Pride has done for Humanity, the kind of 'I know BETTER then everyone else, I AM BETTER then everyone else, only I and I ALONE can save the Imperium yadayda' that we see so much in 40K. I'd rather play a guy with crippling depression, but still trying to do his best, then a prideful man with the powers of a god trying to save humanity from itself because only HE can.

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>make an argument about how Pride shows the EoM at both his best and his worst and how there's value to that for someone walking in his footsteps
>"But how's that better than MEGADEPRESSION?"

i mean i guess this is better than the endless one-line votes for grief but not by much tbh

Edit: like ngl the Grief vote seems to have a pretty strong undercurrent of "nobleness in suffering" mixed with what i think are some metagaming instincts? and i can't say that i find either endearing, or the argument of "if you vote for pride you will be JUST LIKE THE ENEMY" super compelling

[X] Grief - You remember all that the Emperor most regretted, his greatest sorrows and self-perceived failures. The grief of an immortal is a terrible thing indeed, and oh, there is so much...

What do you regret, Emperor?

I think the biggest logic about grief is that it is allowing you to learn from the emperor's past mistakes, but the issue is that knowing his mistakes will not necessarily help you in the present. The overwhelming wave of his grief can drive you to assume the wrong things about present circumstances. You are weighed down by the things you did not do.

[X] Grief - You remember all that the Emperor most regretted, his greatest sorrows and self-perceived failures. The grief of an immortal is a terrible thing indeed, and oh, there is so much...

Honestly, this sounds like a combination of past-life experiences and our Limit Break. Like, when the shard of the Emperor's Soul gets agitated or whatever, this is what it's made out of, this'll be what's coming to the fore.

Making tacky Ignatius statues everywhere would be a more amusing course of action than the more likely consequences ("No, canonness, I know better than you, so get out of my way or I'll move you myself", blah blah blah, insert other painfully foolish pride things here), but it's better (more entertaining to me) than writing sad everything-I-do-goes-wrong poetry and moping in corners (Or being trapped in a memory of a similar encounter that went wrong on a primordially terrible scale, you get the point.)

[X] Grief - You remember all that the Emperor most regretted, his greatest sorrows and self-perceived failures. The grief of an immortal is a terrible thing indeed, and oh, there is so much...

Artemis1992 said:

They have psykers? Or are technological mindreaders a thing?

Interesting choice anyway, wie clearly have to improve our mental defences further if mere mortals can yet pierce them so easily.

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The Sisters of Silence are a thing, but are mostly anti-psykers. The Sororitas are pretty much never psykers, but some orders have close ties with the Scholastica Psykana, and the Sororitas certainly need Astropaths and Navigators, even if they don't take holy orders. (Much like how there are cogboys that work on Sororitas gear without taking holy orders with the Sisters.)

Technological mind-readers do not exist. They have never existed. If you find something that you think may be a technological mind-reader, please contact the Adeptus Mechanicus.

[X] Pride - You remember the Emperor's greatest triumphs, the deeds that pleased him most. Some were his own, some were performed by others, all hold a special place in his heart.

@TenfoldShields makes a compelling argument. And, well, I think Pride will play into the natural tendencies of SV. Hubris is a coward's word.

[X] Grief - You remember all that the Emperor most regretted, his greatest sorrows and self-perceived failures. The grief of an immortal is a terrible thing indeed, and oh, there is so much...

Grief isn't an emotion SV's quests are particularly acquainted with, I think. There are a few with depressed characters, but depression and grief aren't the same.

Nix's Warden said:

You realize that pretty much every bad point you just listed for Grief can be put up for Pride just as easily? Heck even more so. Yeah Grief can be at times overpowering but atleast it doesn't drive people to make the kind of choices pride does. We've seen what Pride has done for Humanity, the kind of 'I know BETTER then everyone else, I AM BETTER then everyone else, only I and I ALONE can save the Imperium yadayda' that we see so much in 40K. I'd rather play a guy with crippling depression, but still trying to do his best, then a prideful man with the powers of a god trying to save humanity from itself because only HE can.

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You're equating pride and arrogance here, when they're not the same. It's like equating Grief to depression, honestly.

[X] Pride - You remember the Emperor's greatest triumphs, the deeds that pleased him most. Some were his own, some were performed by others, all hold a special place in his heart.

Stormwhite said:

You're equating pride and arrogance here, when they're not the same. It's like equating Grief to depression, honestly.

[X] Pride - You remember the Emperor's greatest triumphs, the deeds that pleased him most. Some were his own, some were performed by others, all hold a special place in his heart.

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ohohoho I couldn't give less of a fuck about whatever your thoughts are about anything stormwhite.

[X] Grief - You remember all that the Emperor most regretted, his greatest sorrows and self-perceived failures. The grief of an immortal is a terrible thing indeed, and oh, there is so much...

I'm gonna be real, a large part of why I picked Grief is because grief control will let us save people from turning into witches Pride and Wrath both seem to be just more of the same crap that led to the Imperium being as shit as it is.