@Telamon, on reading back I'm actually somewhat unsure now, because I get the impression you thought I meant both siege engines and a wall around Nola by "siegeworks", clearly a poor choice of wording on my part. I just meant a stockade with a ditch. Would an action dedicated to this still stretch our manpower impracticably far in this turn, alongside building the Winter camp?

This is as much for curiosity's sake as wanting to base a plan on it. I'm fairly happy with "Bristling Mound, Even Trench", but I'm interested as to what the full extent of our Legion's engineering abilities actually are, as it might come in handy in future.


It sounds more like Telamon thought you were asking "would building a winter camp and siege engines interfere with each other, then realized you meant "would building a winter camp and siege fortifications interfere?"

What it comes down to is that engines require a relatively small amount of very precise, skillful construction, whereas both winter camps and fortifications involve a great deal of earthmoving, bulk construction, and the like. This means that winter camps and fortifications compete for the same resources when it comes time for construction.

By contrast, the siege engines are a product for a few dozen of the legion's most skilled woodworkers out of, say, hundreds. Removing them from the construction of the fortifications won't slow them down much because they can't do much compared to the sheer bulk of the task. Less of a conflict.

Yes, @Simon_Jester has an accurate reading of the situation. Siegeworks would compete for the same time and resources as the Camp, whereas building the siege engines can pretty safely be done simultaneously with camp-building.
 
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As I mentioned before, and as @Simon_Jester just reminded us, we are so bad at Subterfuge that we can't understand the codes our own spymistress uses in her letters. That's true even after the free Level-Up reward for the ad banner.

Does anyone have any idea of what benefit we would get from writing to Prosperina this turn? Pompey is away from Rome, and any information she can give us would either be a) inaccessible because we suck at Subterfuge or b) readily available by talking with one of our other friends in Rome. We don't need to write her every turn -- her value in gathering information depends on there being enough time to actually do the gathering.


I would point out that using Personal actions is the most reliable method we have of gaining XP, which is a big deal considering how far we have to go to be on par with the great statesmen of the era. I would also point out that corresponding with Proserpina has not and will not give us any XP.

(...I also notice that our letters to Scaevola didn't give us any XP either. @Telamon, what gives? Did we fail a background roll that you didn't include in the turn text, or is our patron -- the greatest lawyer in Rome, natch -- not a source of XP at all?)

(Also, you still haven't updated the last turn with the flavor text and XP gains from 'Study Finance').

I like the idea of corresponding with Atticus, but I strongly encourage us to maintain our correspondence with Cicero instead. Seriously, that correspondence gave us XP for 'Intelligence' -- the most useful stat in the quest, given that it applies bonuses to practically everything, and the hardest to level up. Plus it gave us XP for 'Education', making Cicero even more useful to us. If we want to play the long game, then upgrading our Intelligence is the most reliable means of boosting every action we take and every other skill we want to train.
 
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[] Plan time marches on 2,0
[1] An Army Marches On Its Stomach:
You visit the outlying towns and cities, hoping to procure extra food for the legions by convincing the elders of these towns to donate to the war effort, as it's in their best interests.
--[] In your capacity as Sertorius' official representative, you set about trying to diplomatically convince them to open their stores to the legions.

[2] The Winter Camp: Pompolussa is seeking to fortify and expand the winter camp before, well...winter. You endeavor to help him in this task by requisitioning materials, coercing engineers, and finding capable builders among the legions to work at this task.
[3] Outriders: You again take the Gallic auxiliaries and begin scouring the surrounding area for rebels and rebel-allied bandits, hoping to tighten the noose and reduce the amount of food which slips through the barricades into the city by hidden means. Emboldened by their escape from you this past month, they are growing more and more daring with their raids on the supply lines, which are becoming a growing concern.

[1] Speak With The Architects: You speak with the legion's architects and engineers, hoping to increase your own knowledge of Engineering.
[2] Study Logistics: You read books on planning and organization, hoping to gain greater mastery of logistics and large-scale planning.
[3] Write Home: You take the opportunity of remaining on the Italian Peninsula to write back home to your friends and allies in the city. You wrote to...
(Pick Two)
--[] Cicero
--[] Atticus

[4] Prospects: While you cannot court anyone or get married now, Proserpina's latest comment has sparked thoughts of marriage in your head. You can't do much here and now, but you could have Proserpina write up a list of the best prospects and send them to you for you to look over. Should you like any of them in particular, you could even write to her father to gauge his interest.

Ok here is my updated plan based on what the thread has said they liked so far. the only thing I am doing that some may not like is Prospects. Which I am doing because Marriages in Rome were negotiated months to years in advance before the couple met. I am going heavy on engineering and study logistics and trying to make sure the camp gets set up before winter hits, which should be before the end of October and beginning of November. Now I got to go put a roast in a slow cooker.
 
Well, given that Atticus was one of Cicero's lifelong favorite letter-writing partners, it's entirely plausible that he could give us an Intelligence/Education boost too. Atticus might even be better for Education than Cicero, since Atticus was all about the classical manuscripts and such while Cicero was more of a generalist as I understand it.

You do make a good point about Prosperina. While events in Rome are important, they're decoupled enough from us that if we wait a month to find out about them it won't be crippling. Anything massively important will reach us anyway, and anything detailed can probably wait. If we had much hope of gaining Subterfuge XP from Proserpina I'd be all for it, but that doesn't seem to happen.

When I actually propose my plan(s)...

@Telamon , is it okay if I propose some plans I myself don't intend to vote for? I'd like to give people some freedom of choice in the early phase of the vote, rather than being restricted to the first one or two options that come down the pike.

...Anyway, I may mix up the letter-writing choices a bit more to include options like Cicero and Atticus.
 
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[X] Plan time marches on 2,0
[1] An Army Marches On Its Stomach:
You visit the outlying towns and cities, hoping to procure extra food for the legions by convincing the elders of these towns to donate to the war effort, as it's in their best interests.
--[] In your capacity as Sertorius' official representative, you set about trying to diplomatically convince them to open their stores to the legions.

[2] The Winter Camp: Pompolussa is seeking to fortify and expand the winter camp before, well...winter. You endeavor to help him in this task by requisitioning materials, coercing engineers, and finding capable builders among the legions to work at this task.
[3] Outriders: You again take the Gallic auxiliaries and begin scouring the surrounding area for rebels and rebel-allied bandits, hoping to tighten the noose and reduce the amount of food which slips through the barricades into the city by hidden means. Emboldened by their escape from you this past month, they are growing more and more daring with their raids on the supply lines, which are becoming a growing concern.

[1] Speak With The Architects: You speak with the legion's architects and engineers, hoping to increase your own knowledge of Engineering.
[2] Study Logistics: You read books on planning and organization, hoping to gain greater mastery of logistics and large-scale planning.
[3] Write Home: You take the opportunity of remaining on the Italian Peninsula to write back home to your friends and allies in the city. You wrote to...
(Pick Two)
--[] Cicero
--[] Atticus

[4] Prospects: While you cannot court anyone or get married now, Proserpina's latest comment has sparked thoughts of marriage in your head. You can't do much here and now, but you could have Proserpina write up a list of the best prospects and send them to you for you to look over. Should you like any of them in particular, you could even write to her father to gauge his interest.
 
[x] Plan Bristling Mound, Even Trench
- [1] An Army Marches On Its Stomach
--[] In your capacity as Sertorius' official representative, you set about trying to diplomatically convince them to open their stores to the legions.
-[2] The Winter Camp
-[3] Outriders

- [1] Fortune's Favor:
- [2] Study Logistics:
- [3] Write Home:
--[] Cicero
--[] Proserpina
-[4] Speak With The Architects
 
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@globalwarmth , @Shador how about you remove the word 'Draft' from your plan and become the... official sponsor... of "Bristling Mound, Even Trench?" I don't actually want to vote for it myself, but I'm glad you do!

Also, you may need to put X's in the subvote boxes and tidy things up a bit.
 
[X] Plan Wolves of Rome
- [1] An Army Marches On Its Stomach
-- [X] In your capacity as Sertorius' official representative, you set about trying to diplomatically convince them to open their stores to the legions.
- [2] Outriders
- [3] The Left Hand Strays
- [1] The Cult of Mars
- [2] Fortune's Favor
- [3] Study Logistics
- [4] Sparring

As a wildcard I'm going to push this option. One because "The Left Hand Strays" is my pet project and I keep hoping it'll give us extra actions by letting the other tribunes help handle our duties. Two because I like the idea of making as much use as possible of the augury bonus for offensive military action and morale-building.

It occurs to me that "Brotherhood" may be a good choice for us to take this winter, because we may go a bit hungry at some point. It would be a fine thing to add to our rep something like "and when the Sixth Legion was on half rations for three weeks due to lack of supplies,you know who gritted his teeth and ate those rations along with the men? Quintus Atellus!" The problem is that Brotherhood and Fortune's Favor are likely to have conflicting effects.

We might actually want to hold "Brotherhood" in reserve preferentially for the point where food becomes scarce...
______________________________________

Okay so I'm also going to put p two others that have had the X's and numbers removed. The plans are listed in order, so if anyone likes them, just put in '1,' '2,' and so on inside the brackets.

[] Plan Ordered Affairs
- [] An Army Marches On Its Stomach
-- [] In your capacity as Sertorius' official representative, you set about trying to diplomatically convince them to open their stores to the legions.
- [] Envoy to Nola
- [] Outriders
- [] Fortune's Favor:
- [] Study Logistics:
- [] Write Home:
-- [] Atticus
-- [] Proserpina
- [] Prospects

For "Ordered Affairs" (otherwise known as "COMMENCE ZE WAIFU WARS"), we really should write to Proserpina; we need the information she has to make good choices.
_________________________________________

[] Plan Silver Tongue
- [] An Army Marches On Its Stomach
-- [] In your capacity as Sertorius' official representative, you set about trying to diplomatically convince them to open their stores to the legions.
- [] A Matter of Allies
- [] Envoy to Nola
- [] Fortune's Favor
- [] Study Logistics
- [] Silver Tongues, Silver Words
- [] Write Home
-- [] Cicero
-- [] Atticus

This plan has double potential XP from letter-writing and makes lots of use of our oratorical skills. Its main weakness is that it only focuses on those, even to the extent of neglecting "hunt the rebels."
 
[x] Plan Legionary Politics
- [1] An Army Marches On Its Stomach
--[] In your capacity as Sertorius' official representative, you set about trying to diplomatically convince them to open their stores to the legions.
-[2] The Winter Camp
-[3] Outriders

- [1] Fortune's Favor
- [2] Silver Tongues, Silver Words.
- [3] Write Home:
--[] Atticus
--[] Volero
-[4] Speak With The Architects


Like Plan Bristling Mound, Even Trench, this consolidates the siege for the long-haul by building a winter camp, requisitioning supplies, patrolling with outriders, and studying siege engineering. However, whilst it's always professional to study logistics, I don't think it's the most urgent thing to do at the moment.

Instead, by combining fortune's favour with silver tongues and words, there's a focus on building relations with all sides of the civil war, both in the legion and without. Officers and soldiers. Sullan veterans and equites as well as Marian recruits. The letter to Volero can also seen as part of that effort, so that we have contact with men of Pompey as well as Marius and Sulla. The letter with Atticus rounds it up by engaging in non-military affairs, gaining xp in intelligence and philosophy, and providing a new viewpoint from an important thinker after we've heard what Cicero and Scaevola had to say.
 
[X] Plan Wolves of Rome

Lets do things in order. Every turn we put off Left Hand Strays Is a turn we lose out on competent allies. (I don't think it will be at the level of extra actions though)
 
I do think we should do some engineering stuff next turn though. One benefit of the siege turn priority system is that we can ensure that we can talk to the architects and/or study siege engineering first.
 
[X] Plan Silver Tongue
- [1] An Army Marches On Its Stomach
-- [X] In your capacity as Sertorius' official representative, you set about trying to diplomatically convince them to open their stores to the legions.
- [2] A Matter of Allies
- [3] Envoy to Nola
- [1] Fortune's Favor
- [2] Study Logistics
- [3] Silver Tongues, Silver Words
- [4] Write Home
-- [X] Cicero
-- [X] Atticus
 
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@maximillian , if you want Plan Silver Tongue, could you please copy-paste it into your post in its entirety? I'm not sure just voting for it will actually work for tallying purposes given that I didn't vote for it.
 
@maximillian , if you want Plan Silver Tongue, could you please copy-paste it into your post in its entirety? I'm not sure just voting for it will actually work for tallying purposes given that I didn't vote for it.

It's a solid plan, building up charisma, negotiating, connection and diplomatic skill is a far rarer and effective talent for an aspiring power hungery roman. The right Words at the right time can make and unmake armies afterall.

And if one who seeks to subdue an empire or its varied components to his will, political mastery is far more stable and successful a path than the short lived pyrrhic success of brute force.
 
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@maximillian , if you want Plan Silver Tongue, could you please copy-paste it into your post in its entirety? I'm not sure just voting for it will actually work for tallying purposes given that I didn't vote for it.
Seeing as having numbers instead of X's already removes everything except the name from the tally program, it doesn't really matter.
EDIT-In the future we could do it as something like [](1)The Left Hand Strays to get around that.
 
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[X] Plan Securing Cooperation
-[1] An Army Marches On Its Stomach
--[X] In your capacity as Sertorius' official representative, you set about trying to diplomatically convince them to open their stores to the legions.
-[2] Outriders
-[3] A Matter of Allies
-[1] The Cult of Mars
-[2] Brotherhood
-[3] Write Home
--[X] Cicero
--[X] Atticus
-[4] Study Logistics

So quite a bit of this is the same as Wolves of Rome but I dropped trying to whip the hopeless tribunes into something resembling usefulness as well as Fortune's Favor and Sparring. I think it's better to build on our foundation with the officers and secure the cooperation between the Hirpini and Roman common soldier, particularly since winter is around the corner, which will inevitably lead to some kind of hardship. I believe that taking Brotherhood along with this action will lead to a nice synergy since listening to the men's troubles should make it easier to dissolve any tensions between the two groups. Writing letters has proven very useful so far, both in terms of EXP and to gain information/context, and I don't see a reason to stop now.

Basically, I think the most important thing right now is securing our food supply and cooperation between the two camps and I've dedicated the majority of our actions towards that.
 
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