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On the Road to Elspar [Book 1] (Dryad Mercenary Schoolgirl Quest)

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Gazetteer said:
Well, there are repeated hints that a relationship with Elizabeth would result in a collar.
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Sure, but that's being a specific noble's pet, not being "a sad little peasant who has to follow around her betters for any direction" or any number of negative readings one could take out of that situation.
 
Spectrum said:
Sure, but that's being a specific noble's pet, not being "a sad little peasant who has to follow around her betters for any direction" or any number of negative readings one could take out of that situation.
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Well, I mean. Don't want to be that either. Bullies suck, but, "Some sort of torture spell that lasts actual hours" is, uh. Fucked up? I mean, I almost wanna see if anyone called it out after the update? The framing is really shitty, especially the "Rumors are she's a noble so even if she's caught who will do anything about it?" bit. That it's "Just a teenage prank."

I mean, note, I'm not objecting to what happened? The narrative repeatedly calls it out as really messed up. But, uh. Maybe she gets better and I'm not remembering that bit? But it's kinda made the sort of impression where it's hard to get past it.

Edit: On a positive note, Sieglinde is pretty great so far in the reread?
 
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[X] Lucille Lorraine Celestia
[X] Melanie Aster
[X] Elizabeth Irivich Zabanya
[X] Vesna Rainer
[X] Wendy

Picking four is hard... Lucille and Melanie are simple enough but way too many competing for the other two spots so not at all sure but going with this for the time being.
EDIT: Added fifth vote.
EDIT2: Sorry Vesna and Wendy Melanie has priority.
EDIT3: Melanie got ahead so...
 
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The Laurent said:
Well, I mean. Don't want to be that either. Bullies suck, but, "Some sort of torture spell that lasts actual hours" is, uh. Fucked up? I mean, I almost wanna see if anyone called it out after the update? The framing is really shitty, especially the "Rumors are she's a noble so even if she's caught who will do anything about it?" bit. That it's "Just a teenage prank."

I mean, note, I'm not objecting to what happened? The narrative repeatedly calls it out as really messed up. But, uh. Maybe she gets better and I'm not remembering that bit? But it's kinda made the sort of impression where it's hard to get past it.
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You're sort of responding at cross purposes. I was snarking back to Gazetteer about the nature of a Neianne/Elizabeth relationship in contrast to Neianne/ALL THE NOBLES, whereas you're talking about how Elizabeth is a shitty person who's okay only because she's on our side. (Yes, she is at least interesting and characterized, but that could well be a flaw of the Quest as touched upon before with the nobles just getting More earlier and that snowballing.)
 
I'm at the training exercise, it's interesting so far. Admittedly, I don't actually know the limits or balance of magic yet, what it can and can't do, which makes me wonder just as others have.

Since this is very final fantasy-esque, I just assume it's not as badly balanced as D&D.
 
The Laurent said:
Well, I mean. Don't want to be that either. Bullies suck, but, "Some sort of torture spell that lasts actual hours" is, uh. Fucked up? I mean, I almost wanna see if anyone called it out after the update? The framing is really shitty, especially the "Rumors are she's a noble so even if she's caught who will do anything about it?" bit. That it's "Just a teenage prank."

I mean, note, I'm not objecting to what happened? The narrative repeatedly calls it out as really messed up. But, uh. Maybe she gets better and I'm not remembering that bit? But it's kinda made the sort of impression where it's hard to get past it.

Edit: On a positive note, Sieglinde is pretty great so far in the reread?
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What Elizabeth did is definitely fucked up, and things she's said and done have pointed to her being way too ready to resort to violence. What does interest me in her character, however, is that that seems to be at least partially a mask. When asked afterward about it, this was her response:

"If harm must be inflicted," sniffs the elven mage, "then let it be so severe that future retaliation is impossible or unthinkable."
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And that's all that Neianne gets out of her at that point. But I'll note that we pretty much avoid Elizabeth, and we don't really learn much past her surface very quickly with her because of it. Taking the latest chapters into account, though, Neianne can tell that she's been affected by the attack on Faulkren, but she can only tell that because she's used to Elizabeth.

If we look at her statements elsewhere, it's safe to say that she's deeply cynical and sardonic about nearly everything. She's more than willing to describe just how ridiculously unfair it is that she can get away with anything because of her noble status and still abuse it relentlessly. I'm not going to claim that whatever was going through her head excuses the level of her response, of course, but it's these sort of things that make me wonder how she came to believe that this sort of disproportionate response is the best way of dealing with the bullying.

Because she really does seem to believe that that's the best way to respond, and, worse, the story doesn't seem to be proving her wrong. Nobody was willing to try to bully her again, and she suffered no negative consequences for the torture.
 
Kinruush said:
What Elizabeth did is definitely fucked up, and things she's said and done have pointed to her being way too ready to resort to violence. What does interest me in her character, however, is that that seems to be at least partially a mask. When asked afterward about it, this was her response:



And that's all that Neianne gets out of her at that point. But I'll note that we pretty much avoid Elizabeth, and we don't really learn much past her surface very quickly with her because of it. Taking the latest chapters into account, though, Neianne can tell that she's been affected by the attack on Faulkren, but she can only tell that because she's used to Elizabeth.

If we look at her statements elsewhere, it's safe to say that she's deeply cynical and sardonic about nearly everything. She's more than willing to describe just how ridiculously unfair it is that she can get away with anything because of her noble status and still abuse it relentlessly. I'm not going to claim that whatever was going through her head excuses the level of her response, of course, but it's these sort of things that make me wonder how she came to believe that this sort of disproportionate response is the best way of dealing with the bullying.

Because she really does seem to believe that that's the best way to respond, and, worse, the story doesn't seem to be proving her wrong. Nobody was willing to try to bully her again, and she suffered no negative consequences for the torture.
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Well, maybe. I mean, but frankly I'd rather talk to Wendy, for instance. I added her to the vote. Penelope has too big of a chip on her shoulder, maybe?

But I mean, like. I just don't want to be friends with her?

She should face consequences and the fact that she doesn't is actually a big problem? Plus, and I'm not through with the reread so this might change, the fact that she's doing the anime-tsundere "Can only deliver even positive statements through insults like 'mewling quim' and etc" isn't endearing me to her either?
 
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Elizabeth is a violent sociopath from folk strawmen about 'cruel nobles who have bo clue how hard it can get for others and are delighted by the fact' and I don't see much evidence to the contrary so far.
 
The Laurent said:
Well, maybe. I mean, but frankly I'd rather talk to Wendy, for instance. I added her to the vote. Penelope has too big of a chip on her shoulder, maybe?

But I mean, like. I just don't want to be friends with her?

She should face consequences and the fact that she doesn't is actually a big problem? Plus, and I'm not through with the reread so this might change, the fact that she's doing the anime-tsundere "Can only deliver even positive statements through insults like 'mewling quim' and etc" isn't endearing me to her either?
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I don't blame you for it. My interest in her has come grudgingly and partially out of necessity, as we'll be teammates for the remainder of our time in Faulkren.
 
AnonymousRabbit said:
Some of us want to be friends with Liz.
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One has to admit that there's less chance of her torturing us for fun if we're friends with her. As long as we're willing to deal with the fact that, as ctu says, she's basically a parody of arrogant and sadistic nobility.

I mean, I don't think she's sadistic because she's nobility, mind. It just allows her to get away with it, and I wonder if someday it won't backfire. Maybe not. But that'd at least be actual character growth, whereas I'm guessing that friendship with her will involve learning to accept that really, what's so bad about being an entitled asshole who treats everyone pretty badly?

Our friendships have involved us bending for them, rather than the other way around, so why would that change with someone even more forceful?
 
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AnonymousRabbit said:
Some of us want to be friends with Liz.
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she may be a monster, I won't comment on that bit, but regardless of that she has 3 big points to her
1) she's interesting. not nice, but she makes everything interesting because you have to think about it and because she's doing things no one else will(openly at least) and better yet is introspective enough to understand what she's doing
2) she's important. It doesn't matter for this point that her nobility was handed to her by birth or where her magic came from, but simply by her status, her magic, and her willingness to actually use her power she has agency, she has influence, she has the ability to change things. this makes her useful to be able to predict/influence/rely on if possible.\
3) the biggest reason of all, she's our teammate. we'll be stuck with her for the next 3 years, and likely we'll continue to have to work together even after we get out of the school. We'll have to figure out how to work with her for these 3 years, and may do extra due to the above 2 reasons, which means when we're actually out of school we'll probably b one of the best people for working with her.

The Laurent said:
Our friendships have involved us bending for them, rather than the other way around, so why would that change with someone even more forceful?
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Well considering that what Elizabeth wants is for Neianne to grow a spine, gain some power/willingness to use it, and to simply be worthy of her attention, I don't object to becoming what she wants Neianne to be.
 
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cheesyme said:
she may be a monster, I won't comment on that bit, but regardless of that she has 3 big points to her
1) she's interesting. not nice, but she makes everything interesting because you have to think about it and because she's doing things no one else will(openly at least) and better yet is introspective enough to understand what she's doing
2) she's important. It doesn't matter for this point that her nobility was handed to her by birth or where her magic came from, but simply by her status, her magic, and her willingness to actually use her power she has agency, she has influence, she has the ability to change things. this makes her useful to be able to predict/influence/rely on if possible.\
3) the biggest reason of all, she's our teammate. we'll be stuck with her for the next 3 years, and likely we'll continue to have to work together even after we get out of the school. We'll have to figure out how to work with her for these 3 years, and may do extra due to the above 2 reasons, which means when we're actually out of school we'll probably b one of the best people for working with her.
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But if anything that's a reason not to pick her this time? We're definitely going to be interacting with her, so do we have to use one of our four character interaction slots for even more of her?

cheesyme said:
Well considering that what Elizabeth wants is for Neianne to grow a spine, gain some power/willingness to use it, and to simply be worthy of her attention, I don't object to becoming what she wants Neianne to be.
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Worthy of her attention. Bah.

And her willingness to use it is horrific. And also something we can't match because we're not nobility and so we don't get away with torture.

If we let her define us, we'll be her creature, and little more.
 
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Lisa is best girl.

We can argue about it, because this all subjective, but, because of that you also can't prove me wrong either.
 
The Laurent said:
But if anything that's a reason not to pick her this time? We're definitely going to be interacting with her, so do we have to use one of our four character interaction slots for even more of her?
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because until we either have her figured out perfectly IC, or are certain she cares significantly about neianne as a friend, I kinda just want to keep dedicating a turn to her every single chance.
 
Also, you know what, screw this noise of acting like Lisa's actions were in any way disproportionate. Here is what happened, placed out so everyone can read it freshly.

It's during lunchtime on the third week that Penelope - an apprentice from another squad - passes by Elizabeth in the Great Hall and "accidentally" spills a bowl of soup down the latter's dress. It's "accidental" - complete with quotes - in part because Penelope is smirking as she feigns a sarcastic apology, even as her friends giggle. It's only later in the day that you begin to hear explanations and rationalizations of why Penelope apparently took offense with Elizabeth; some say that she was unimpressed with the girl who slept through the lecturing and the training that they've struggled to get into; some say that the offending apprentice was slighted by Elizabeth's rejection of an invitation of friendship; some say that Penelope has a chip on her shoulder against the highborn or perhaps just elves in general, and Elizabeth seemed like the easiest target.

You are already seated at your table when you see this happen to Elizabeth, and you are still nervously debating whether or not to go over there and comfort - if not stand up for - a fellow squadmate. However, the only warning sign you notice is from Sieglinde, who - rather than reacting with anger or disgust or even indifference at the sight - seems a touch alarmed.

"Sorry, are you?" asks Elizabeth, and there's a smile on her face, but the smile is cold and cruel and terrifying, out of place on a small girl with features as angelic as hers. Her voice drops to a whisper, but you're still close enough to hear the elven mage whisper to Penelope, "If you're begging for forgiveness, shouldn't you be doing so on your knees, like a mongrel?"

Penelope and her friends exchange astounded laughs, like they're both offended by Elizabeth's words but also humored by the thought of the small elven girl managing vengeance in any way. "Don't get ahead of yourself, runt," snorts Penelope, giving the small elven girl a rough shove in her shoulder. She easily has more than a head over Elizabeth, and the push was forceful enough that the latter actually falls backwards onto her backside, prompting a few laughs from onlookers. Stephanie, however, finally emerges from the crowd, looking displeased at the scene and seemingly ready to come to Elizabeth's aid, but the elf casually rises back to her feet and reaches out to grab Stephanie's arm, stopping her.

Stephanie shoots Elizabeth a bewildered look, even as Penelope and her friends laugh and march off in celebration of their mischief.

"Why did you stop me?" demands Stephanie, angrily shaking Elizabeth's hand off her arm.

But rather than look apologetic or offended, Elizabeth merely smiles at Stephanie, and for no reason you're sure you can explain, it's somehow both sweet and chilling at the same time, and you find it terrifying to look at. "If you're going to do something dumb," chimes the elf happily, "then make sure you aren't caught doing it by the people who matter."
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They spilled hot ass soup on her. And were going to get away with it themselves. (Yes, I am assuming it was hot soup, because who the fuck drinks cold soup.) My guy, what the fuck do you think the recourse for that is? Steph wanted to throw down with them right then and there and I doubt anyone would say that it wasn't warranted. I would have killed them if it happened to someone I was cool with, right in front of me. Elizabeth just isn't some hot head though. She knew if Steph did what she wanted, she would be punished, even if she was in the right.

So, fast-forward.

You and Stephanie return to your rooms in preparation for your evening meal, running a little late as you are doing so; already, most of the students have vacated the dormitories for the Great Hall, and few of the Academy's apprentices collapse exhausted into their beds just before mealtime anymore. Nothing seems entirely out of place, except on your way out of the West Wing, you find one of doors to the dorm rooms left slightly ajar. Specifically, the dormitory belonging to Penelope. Even more strangely, you hear a strange mixture of muffled sounds: The crackling of electricity, the moaning of pained suffering, the sobbing of desperate begging. And stranger still: A chill wind was flowing out from the dorm room.

The sight that greets you as the two of you open the door is chilling: Blades of ice protruding from the floor and walls and ceiling of the room, threatening to impale those who come near; Penelope, a sobbing wreck curled up on the ground, whimpering near-incoherent apologies; her friends, sprawled across the floor as they writhe in pain, as if brutalized in their own rooms; and Elizabeth, standing in the middle of the dorm room, icy mist and sparks of electricity swirling around her in a naked show of arcane power, a foot placed on the back of Penelope's head.

It's only after seconds of you and Stephanie gaping in stunned silence that Elizabeth finally notices - or at least deigns to notice - both of you. The smile she offers both of you - even as she playfully places a finger on her lips as if to suggest that this is a secret between the three of you - is as sweet and cold as ever.
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This happens. She punishes them. This wasn't torture. She kicked their asses. She didn't leave lasting damage, she didn't kill them. They just learned that their actions had consequences.

I am absolutely fine with the narrative carrying her actions as right because as far as I am concerned, they are. If someone spilled hot ass soup on me like that, in some medieval fantasy setting I would be demanding an honor duel to the death.

Elizabeth is a sadist, yes, but get the current narrative of painting her as the worst, allllllll theeeee wayyyyyy theeeee fuuuuuckkkk ouuuuut offfff hereeeeeee.
 
You guys do know we would be working and interacting with her and everyone in our squad in the next two years regardless of the in depth focus so I prefer to interact with people we never interact much!

Melanie, Penelope and Wendy we know more than Vesna Rainer, Mia Honette, Emilie and Nikki, not to mention their conflicts, the Elizabeth torment and being the short end of the stick. Apart from Vesna as carefree merchant daughter and shallow quirks of the other we know nothing about them!

Urgh I feel blind to what's going on with the normal girls unlike those we already interact with often.
SIgh why must I keep repeating this.
 
Midwinter feast. Huh. Even when Elizabeth is slightly nicer she literally can't resist communicating mostly in insults. Like, when she sorta likes someone she's less unpleasant, yes. Somewhat.

Lazy Minx said:
Also, you know what, screw this noise of acting like Lisa's actions were in any way disproportionate. Here is what happened, placed out so everyone can read it freshly.



They spilled hot ass soup on her. And were going to get away with it themselves. (Yes, I am assuming it was hot soup, because who the fuck drinks cold soup.) My guy, what the fuck do you think the recourse for that is? Steph wanted to throw down with them right then and there and I doubt anyone would say that it wasn't warranted. I would have killed them if it happened to someone I was cool with, right in front of me. Elizabeth just isn't some hot head though. She knew if Steph did what she wanted, she would be punished, even if she was in the right.

So, fast-forward.



This happens. She punishes them. This wasn't torture. She kicked their asses. She didn't leave lasting damage, she didn't kill them. They just learned that their actions had consequences.

I am absolutely fine with the narrative carrying her actions as right because as far as I am concerned, they are. If someone spilled hot ass soup on me like that, in some medieval fantasy setting I would be demanding an honor duel to the death.

Elizabeth is a sadist, yes, but get the current narrative of painting her as the worst, allllllll theeeee wayyyyyy theeeee fuuuuuckkkk ouuuuut offfff hereeeeeee.
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Oh, btw. I read that scene. Why didn't you keep on going to:

"Elizabeth is never directly implicated in what happened in Penelope's dorm room: In spite of their pathetic, defeated states, there are no obvious wounds or marks on any of the victims, and no immediate evidence of harm. Their absence from dinner goes almost completely unnoticed, and they remain unnoticed for hours still, as Elizabeth closed the door behind her on her way out. It's only when someone deigns to look for Penelope and company that they find four girls still writhing on the floor in pain."

Their absence from dinner was not noticed. When they were found they were still writhing in pain. This was an extended session of pain. I don't know what to call it other than torture?

Penelope/etc were being assholes, yes. That doesn't actually justify hurting someone and then leaving them there apparently writhing in pain for someone else to find. It doesn't even remotely justify that.
 
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Jrin said:
You guys do know we would be working and interacting with her and everyone in our squad in the next two years regardless of the in depth focus so I prefer to interact with people we never interact much!
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The fact that she'll be on our squad makes me want to double down on her more. Lisa is one of the most volatile people in this quest, and I mean that with all due respect and love. We need to be on top of her moods and mannerisms to guess how she'll react to things.

AnonymousRabbit said:
Don't you think it'd be cool to have our Buster Sword be electrified.
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See, this is thinking with your noggin.

Like, yes, guys. There are a lot of interesting people in this quest. Yes, people are going to have preferences. Yes, our team is already guaranteed on merit of being our team. That doesn't mean we shouldn't strongly consider them for this either.

That being said, Lucy needs to have a lock in the top four spot. If anyone deserves it, out of all of the cast it's her. Not Lisa, Linda, Steph or Azalea.
 
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